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I'll be in IRC explaining why Obama can't win.Follow

#52 Mar 06 2008 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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"The difference is that Obama also represents a possible change in the political climate of Washington, and that's what people want. McCain and Clinton represent neither of these things." --Alix

Again, bullsh1t. If there is a pol out there who is more inclined than McCain-- based on actual projects and legislation, not just rhetoric, mind you --to work with the party across the aisle, I'd like to hear his or her name. Bipartisanship is what people want, Alix, not talk or gridlock. McCain has demonstrated this very quality. That is something Obama has not yet done, either because he hasn't been on the political stage long enough or he is not inclined to do so.

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#53 Mar 06 2008 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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If there is a pol out there who is more inclined than McCain-- based on actual projects and legislation, not just rhetoric, mind you --to work with the party across the aisle, I'd like to hear his or her name.


Lieberman.

Christ, that was easy.

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#54 Mar 06 2008 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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Two sides of the same coin.

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#55 Mar 07 2008 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
I'm comparing the methodology of choice to that which resulted in Hitler gaining power.


When are you gonna stop with these ridiculously stupid and innaccurate comparaisons? Serisouly. Think. Thiiiiiiiiiink.

You're comparing 1930 German voters with Obama supporters today, saying both vote blindingly for "change". You really think the 1930 Germans didn't about stuff like, say, Mein Kampf, the Jews, the Versaille Treaty, communism, fascism, 50% unemployment rates, the black shirts, Mussolini. You really think all they heard was "change"?! Are you really that thick to think that your comparaison has any validity whatsoever?

Quote:
Change is not always good. Change can be bad too. Hitler is just an obvious example of this fact.


I was talking the "consistency in his message" of "change", as opposed to the hypocrisy of Clinton's claim that she, also, represents "change". You just find the stupidest and most irrelevant example that "change can be bad". Really? Change can be bad?! So like, if you're healthy and you get cancer that's "bad"?

Maybe the reason no one wants to play your game and tell you why they like Obama is because:

a) they already have and you don't listen, going on a tangeant instead.
b) you're an idiot.
c) a combination of the above.
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#56 Mar 07 2008 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good

...the black shirts...

Minor quibble: they were the brown shirts. (Or red shirts as the case may be)
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#57 Mar 07 2008 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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Minor quibble: they were the brown shirts.


The black shirts were blackshirts, the brown shirts were brownshirts. I was referring to the former, since in the early 30s the march of the Mussolinin's blackshirt had had quite of an impact on the psyche of the whole of Europe, while the brownshirts were at the time not much more than slightly violent political muscle.

But yeah, minor quibble I agree.
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#58 Mar 07 2008 at 7:23 AM Rating: Excellent
My main reservation in regards to McCain is how he is running his campaign to appease the far-right conservatives. McCain has been flip-flopping recently on so many core issues (Flea mentioned them earlier), that of all the candidates I feel as if I have the least idea of how things would go if he became President.

Granted, McCain's history points to one of a "maverick" that has sought bipartisanship in Washington and I certainly respect him greatly for that; and I suppose that I also cannot hold it against him for trying to court the ultra conservatives considering he was running for the GOP nominee. However, at this moment it's very difficult to discern what McCain is merely saying to get elected, and what McCain actually intends to do. That certainly does not indicate to me a potential change in the political climate of Washington at the hands of McCain.
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#59 Mar 07 2008 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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the repubs are going to loose in november no matter who wins the dem nomination. mccain let bush nail his coffin shut by trying to run on a "iraq was a good thing" platform right along party lines. and then stating the economy is in good shape.

even repubs are sick of repubs. gona be alot of them sitting out on this election.

the numbers clinton and obama are turning out for these primaries are increadable. especially in light of the very poor numbers the repubs are turning out. the money they are raising is just staggering.

it doesnt really matter who wins the nomination, mccain is going to loose in november. badly.

my money is on obama. even right now, unless clinton finds some way to make a do over in florida and michigan, something neither the states nor the DNC wants to pay for even though they are all for it in "theory", there is no way clinton can catch obama with either the popular vote or the number of deligates.

and that "3am phone call" wont work again. people have had time to think about it now, and understand that the ONLY person with that type of experience on day one would be an incumbant president getting reelected for a second term. clinton doesnt have it, mccain doesnt have it, nor does anyone else have it unless they have been a seated president. it was a good last minute trick pulled at the perfect time, but it wont fly again./

she is trying to sell voters a box of fear. just like the repubs did with so much sucess over the last 7 years.

obama on the other hand is just selling himself and outselling her in the process.

my money is on obama.
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#60 Mar 07 2008 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
shadowrelm wrote:
the numbers clinton and obama are turning out for these primaries are increadable.


A bit like your posts, then.
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#61 Mar 07 2008 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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To give my frank observation, it's because most people do not want to have to bother listing out his whole damn platform for you.


You're still not getting it. I don't want you to refer to his website. I've read it. Several times.

I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.

Is that so freaking hard?


And Joph? For the record, I was going to respond to that thread you linked, but the forum went on one of it's crashing binges and I never got around to it. Every single one of your links is basically some reporter writing an article about how some far left liberal group thinks Bush is doing something nasty.

Just looking at the first link, does "allowing individual students to pray on their own" actually qualify as "pushing prayer in schools"? Are you seriously arguing that this is what the issue is about? I could have sworn it had to do with a school making some kind of prayer "official" in some way, or requiring students to attend or participate, etc...


And also for the record, that's the same sort of bogus argument for McCain's supposed flip-flopping. He was asked whether he'd be ok with US troops in Iraq for 50 years (reference to a statement by Bush). He said, yeah, even 100 years would be ok, as long as it was in a format more like how our troops are in German and Japan. He very specifically stated that he would not support the current levels of operation (and fighting) for 100 years.

To take that, and then say he's flip flopped when he basically says the same thing later requires a pretty creative interpretation of what he originally said. It's not even remotely the same thing...
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#62 Mar 07 2008 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And Joph? For the record, I was going to respond to that thread you linked, but the forum went on one of it's crashing binges and I never got around to it.
Uh huh. I betcha.

We'll let the record know.
Quote:
Every single one of your links is basically some reporter writing an article about how some far left liberal group thinks Bush is doing something nasty.
God damn White House press releases and their liberal far-left reporting. Smiley: laugh

Edited, Mar 7th 2008 11:15pm by Jophiel
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#63 Mar 07 2008 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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You know why obama will win? Our Political cartoon masters are sitting in dark rooms gleefully counting the numerous and funny things that rhyme with Obama. The Cartoonluminati of course run all society and ensure that the candidate with the highest humor potential name wins. Thats how Bush got in. And Polk.
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#64 Mar 07 2008 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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You're still not getting it. I don't want you to refer to his website. I've read it. Several times.

I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.


Having a long history of trying to explain things to you, let me save everyone a great deal of time. You're not smart enough to understand the explanation,

Happens. The world needs ditch diggers too.
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#65 Mar 08 2008 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.

Is that so freaking hard?


Quite frankly, I know that would be a waste of my time. Why do you need to see it "in my own words?" My reasons for supporting him are there on the website and easily accessible, end of story. I do not see any reason for making it easier for you when you clearly seem to lack a proper understanding of his platform.

My theory is that you're trying to prove a point about me, and/or other Obama supporters, that at least for this forum is not there to be made (that we are all mindless lemmings following a man because has a strong voice and a nice little message, and are incapable of making our own decisions.) I do not see why I have to feed into this erroneous belief and prove you wrong.

Additionally, I must say I never saw you make a truly compelling argument why for instance, Mitt Romney should have been elected, so I'm not sure why you are insisting that I return the favor.
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#66 Mar 10 2008 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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You're still not getting it. I don't want you to refer to his website. I've read it. Several times.

I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.


Not all of us like to converse in long-winded prose. You want us to, in our own words, list and explain what we like about Obama's policies?

If I do it, will I get a gold star, or an A+? No, and I don't do essays for nothing. At best, a couple of people will convince you that they know about the issues. They don't really even stand a chance of swaying you towards their position, but you want them to do it anyway. Well, so sorry if you can't see why no one will honor your request.
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#67 Mar 10 2008 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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Queen Alixana wrote:
Quote:
I want you, in your own words to explain to me what about his platform you agree with and why.

Is that so freaking hard?


Quite frankly, I know that would be a waste of my time. Why do you need to see it "in my own words?"


Because I want to know why *you* support him. I don't need a listing of his platform. You are allowed to have opinions of things. I'm just curious what yours are.


Quote:
My reasons for supporting him are there on the website and easily accessible, end of story.


So you got your opinions on things like education, the environment, health care, and foreign policy by reading his website? Or are you suggesting that he magically happens to match exactly what you believe 100%, with no variation at all? I find that hard to believe...

And it becomes harder to believe that this is the same condition for every single Obama supporter. You all just coincidentally hold exactly the same views on everything. Right...


Quote:
I do not see any reason for making it easier for you when you clearly seem to lack a proper understanding of his platform.


I understand his platform just fine. I disagree with many things on his platform, but that's not really the issue here. I want to know what about his platform you like and don't like, and why. Because usually when people say "I like X", they can say why they like X. And give reasons beyond just pointing at what someone else wrote.

Quote:
My theory is that you're trying to prove a point about me, and/or other Obama supporters, that at least for this forum is not there to be made (that we are all mindless lemmings following a man because has a strong voice and a nice little message, and are incapable of making our own decisions.) I do not see why I have to feed into this erroneous belief and prove you wrong.


I see. You're not a mindless lemming, but you apparently get your entire political ideology by reading his website.

How about if we do this another way? Can you name a single thing you *don't* agree with Obama's website on?

Quote:
Additionally, I must say I never saw you make a truly compelling argument why for instance, Mitt Romney should have been elected, so I'm not sure why you are insisting that I return the favor.


First off, let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Giving a "truly compelling argument why ... Mitt Romney should have been elected" is an argument for why he should have gotten more votes then say John McCain. That requires arguing about what other people should have done, and is far outside the scope of what I'm asking of you.

I'm asking why *you* support Obama. I'm not asking you to argue with me why he's the best candidate. I just want to know what about his platform and policies and even about him that you like.


And I most certainly did have a whole huge discussion on this board about Mitt Romney and why I voted for him. I mentioned my concerns with McCain. I covered Mitt's position on abortion. I mentioned his experience as Governor. I answered numerous questions about him and tallied what things about him I agree with, and which ones I don't.

And guess what? It wasn't hard for me to say several things I didn't agree with him on 100%. Cause that's normal. The odds of any single candidate matching *exactly* what you believe politically is pretty much near zero. The fact that you apparently are in lockstep agreement with Obama should be a huge ringing warning sign that either you are willfully ignoring aspects of his platform, or that you are in fact just mindlessly following him and adopting whatever platform he puts forth as "the best" simply because you think he's dreamy or something...
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#68 Mar 10 2008 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand his platform just fine


Nope. Frankly, you're not capable without taking some sort Flowers for Alegernon type drug.

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#69 Mar 10 2008 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji is apparently misinterpreting "I'm blowing you off by saying 'go read his website' because I don't care enough to get into it with you" as "I believe every single thing on his website 100%".

I see subtlety and nuance are lost on you, Big Guy.

I'll tell you what, though. Why don't you come up with at least three things you sincerely agree with Obama on. Not backhanded insults r "damned with faint priase" riffs but three things that, if Obama were elected, you could sincrely say "Well, he'll probably at least do this..." After all, you say you're well versed on his issues and policies and, if you ARE 100% against absolutely everything Obama thinks, there's really no reason to try to have a discourse with you.

Edited, Mar 10th 2008 5:24pm by Jophiel
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#70 Mar 10 2008 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
if you ARE 100% against absolutely everything Obama thinks, there's really no reason to try to have a discourse with you.

I don't see why he'd agree with anything. He's already told us that liberalism is the greatest threat to the world today, and no I'm not making that up.

He's the guy who argues against things he's admitted he's not diametrically opposed to (gay marriage, abortions) because won't break from party policy. [Yes, I know the bullshit reasons you gave us gbaji, you don't need to repost 2 pages of them!] Now he's here accusing other people of blindly following? That's comical.



Edited, Mar 10th 2008 6:25pm by trickybeck
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#71 Mar 10 2008 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Ah yes, in case anyone forgot:


gbaji wrote:
Which is just one of many reasons why I think liberals are the greatest danger this planet has ever seen.


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#72 Mar 10 2008 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji is apparently misinterpreting "I'm blowing you off by saying 'go read his website' because I don't care enough to get into it with you" as "I believe every single thing on his website 100%".


Yes, thank you Jophiel. I cannot believe that that got misinterepreted, as I was not even trying to be very subtle about it.
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#73 Mar 10 2008 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Queen Alixana wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji is apparently misinterpreting "I'm blowing you off by saying 'go read his website' because I don't care enough to get into it with you" as "I believe every single thing on his website 100%".


Yes, thank you Jophiel. I cannot believe that that got misinterepreted, as I was not even trying to be very subtle about it.
Gbaji wouldn't know subtle even if it hit him in the forehead, wrapped around a lead brick.
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#74 Mar 10 2008 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Gbaji is apparently misinterpreting "I'm blowing you off by saying 'go read his website' because I don't care enough to get into it with you" as "I believe every single thing on his website 100%".


When I ask someone why they support a candidate, and they refuse to state their own reasons, but instead tell me to "read his website", what other conclusion am I to reach?

Quote:
I see subtlety and nuance are lost on you, Big Guy.


There's nothing subtle about it. I asked her why she supports Obama. She's refused to give any reason. When pressed, she said to read his website. Wow! That's about as useful as someone pointing to the ingredient list on the back of a can of soup when I ask them why they like it.

You'd think that's a bit odd...

Quote:
I'll tell you what, though. Why don't you come up with at least three things you sincerely agree with Obama on.


Why should I? I'm not the one supporting Obama. If you want me to say three things about why I think McCain is a good candidate, I will.

You know. The whole "apples to apples" thing...
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#75 Mar 10 2008 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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When I ask someone why they support a candidate, and they refuse to state their own reasons, but instead tell me to "read his website", what other conclusion am I to reach?


That they're laughing at you demanding their reasons for supporting a candidate when you can barely stand upright?

Just a guess.

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#76 Mar 10 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Why should I?
For the same reason you think asking is good enough for people to answer you. Because I asked. I don't care about "apples to apples", I'm asking you a question: Can you come up with three things you legitimately and sincerely like about Obama as a potential president?

Edited, Mar 10th 2008 8:53pm by Jophiel
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#77 Mar 10 2008 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
Okay Gbaji, here you go. Three reasons why I support Barack Obama:

1). He's dreamy. Let's face it, we're in tumultuous times, especially concerning foreign relations. I am convinced that Obama's handsome visage, winning smile, and sizzling physique will cause Europe to shut their flapping mouths, disarm nuclear weapons in Korea, and bring the fanatic Muslim terrorists to their knees.

2). He makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. I love hearing all about his message of hope, it makes me feel better about myself for voting Kerry in 2004.

3). My mother likes Obama. My mother is ten times the Obama supporter I am, and has even been making campaign phone calls to Latino voters in vital states such as California and Texas. I do whatever my mother tells me to, because she's an angry, scary Cuban woman.

So, there you have it.
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#78 Mar 10 2008 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Why should I?
For the same reason you think asking is good enough for people to answer you. Because I asked. I don't care about "apples to apples", I'm asking you a question: Can you come up with three things you legitimately and sincerely like about Obama as a potential president?



Are you just dense today?

I didn't say I support Obama for president. You do see how that's significant, right? If you and some friends are thinking of where to go for dinner, and one insists that you go to a specific restaurant, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to ask that person why, right? If that person refused, you wouldn't take their suggestion that seriously, would you? If the person just pointed at a menu available there, you might still ask "Ok. But why there and not at some other place?".


And if in the midst of this discussion, someone else wanders by and insists that you must list off three things that *you* like about the restaurant that the other person is pushing, you'd think they'd totally gone off their rocker, right?


Yes. I think you would. How about the person who holds a position be expected to support/explain it? Is that so much?


It's like a freaking koolaide drinkers convention in here...
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#79 Mar 10 2008 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Are you just dense today?
No, I just asked a question. I'm sorry that you think you're somehow immune to being asked questions or think that people may only ask questions that fit within your special contextual framework but... well... I asked you a question.

You're welcome to just say "No" or something if you'd like. You're not really required to go on long hissy fits to avoid answering it.
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#80 Mar 10 2008 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Are you just dense today?
Is it very bright in that glass house? I'm going to guess 'not enough'.
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#81 Mar 10 2008 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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You're welcome to just say "No"


Gbaji, responding to anything with only one word?!?!!!

That's a sign of the apocalypse, right there.
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#82 Mar 10 2008 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol. You guys have been dancing around this for almost a page now. I just find it funny that anyone would be so sure of her political choice and so utterly unwilling to actually state why she made that choice. Downright bizarre really...


I know you think you're doing some sort of chivalric "rescue" here Joph, but does this sort of childish tactic really work for you? I hope to god you don't pull that crap on your son. He'll be in therapy for most of his life...


I can just see it:

Joph Jr: Dad? Can I have a cookie?
Joph: Well son. Only if you can tell me three reasons why I shouldn't give you a cookie...
Joph Jr: Huh!? /cry


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#83 Mar 10 2008 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol. You guys have been dancing around this for almost a page now. I just find it funny that anyone would be so sure of her political choice and so utterly unwilling to actually state why she made that choice. Downright bizarre really...


Can you enumerate three logical reasons you support McCain?

Note the fourth word in the previous sentence.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. @#%^ off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#84 Mar 10 2008 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Lol. You guys have been dancing around this for almost a page now.
I gave my reasons for supporting Obama long ago.

You're so afraid to give my question a straight answer that you'll bend yourself in all sorts of ways. I'll tell you what --- you're so hung up on the "But the CONTEXT!!" angle that I'll start a brand new thread. Then you won't have that excuse to cling to, okay?
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#85 Mar 10 2008 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Smash is in the category of "people who most want universal health care", right?


"Wants?" Not really. I wanted it when I was 18. When I was 20 it was apparent to me, and anyone not living in some delusional fantasy world that it was unavoidable. Since then, I've basically wanted us to start moving towards it incrementally so that it didn't cause a catastrophic shock to the economy when we did get to it. Unfortunately, the .001% of the population who have a direct self interest in the current system were easily able to dupe a majority of the population with baseless fear, as usual, so now it'll cripple us economically one way or the other within the next 50 years. I'm sure there are people who benefit from the destruction of the middle classes, but I don't count myself among them. You, by the way, ARE the middle class, so let me assure you that you aren't among them, either.



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#86 Mar 10 2008 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
Well, it really comes down to this, gbaji. It's not that I am unwilling to explain why I have chosen Obama as my candidate of choice; it's that I am unwilling to explain it to you. Does that make sense now that I have said it as plainly as possible?
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#87 Mar 10 2008 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, it really comes down to this, gbaji. It's not that I am unwilling to explain why I have chosen Obama as my candidate of choice; it's that I am unwilling to explain it to you. Does that make sense now that I have said it as plainly as possible?


That means you can't! Ha! You only like him because of his giant uncircumcised negro member!
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. @#%^ off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#88 Mar 10 2008 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
Smasharoo wrote:

That means you can't! Ha! You only like him because of his giant uncircumcised negro member!


Damn...is it that obvious?Smiley: cry

Edited, Mar 11th 2008 12:09am by Alixana
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Career Red Mage & Blue Mage~
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~Esmerelda~ 70 Affliction Warlock
<Ascendance> of Uther
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