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Hillary? Obama? McCain? A mere sideshowFollow

#27 Feb 25 2008 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Kitca wrote:
Queen Alixana wrote:
and that right now it's more imperative to vote for a candidate that can actually win


This perception is why we will never have a truly viable third party in the US. Third-party candidates are considered unelectable by default to most people presently and I don't see the perception changing any time soon.


Not really. The structure of the Electoral College is why we'll never have a truly viable third party. It's also why Alixana is absolutely right. At least as far as presidential candidates go, it's more important to vote for the guy on your "side" that can win, then to vote for someone with great ideas (from your perspective) who has no chance.

Under the EC system, it's more important for smaller political groups to align themselves with one of the two major parties and use their voters as a block to help them push their issues forward. By splitting off they only marginalize themselves, their issue, and ultimately cost other similar issues by pulling votes away from the closest common party. The 2 party system really requires that different political factions work together for common cause. Unfortunately, you'll get the occasional Nader or Perot who don't seem to get this...
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#28 Feb 25 2008 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
The Honorable Annabella wrote:
Yanari wrote:
Quote:
However, at the time I was 16 and just got to stare at the TV helplessly at George W. took the presidency.

That's a rather important point.


Smiley: mad I was 30 and watched helplessly as he took the vote-- i had as much power as you did. I agree with Yanari's bolding of that statement.

Quote:
What is an important point, that I was young? Does this somehow diminish my opinion?


No, the important point was that he took the presidency. He wasn't commenting on your age (as far as I saw).

It's too bad that Gore was so lacking charisma in 2000 since it seems in the last few years, he mysteriously developed a personality. Maybe he was under stress. Maybe he hated politics. Maybe his years as a bearded mountain man made a difference.


Ah, my mistake then. Yes, I'd agree about Gore mysteriously developing personality after losing the election as due to "hating politics". There are many who want to see him run again for President, but I doubt he ever will. I think he prefers the place he's in, and the influence, that he has now.

I also still highly disagree about the current candidates being "mediocre", especially Obama. He's one of the first truly incredible, viable candidates we have seen in a long time. The others that have seemed to hold a lot of promise were eliminated fairly early in the primary seasons.
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#29 Feb 25 2008 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Hah. Almost missed this:

Allakhazam Defender of Justice wrote:
If you really examine his work, he has not done anything significant for the causes he supposedly trumpets since the 70's. He is a name and a shell of an ideal that has long since moved from trying to make a difference to simply trying to make a buck.


I thought that was exactly what Democrats were?



And Alixana? I'm honestly curious (or at least would like you to honestly examine the issue). What about Obama makes you view him as an "incredible, viable candidate"?
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#30 Feb 25 2008 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
What about Obama makes you view him as an "incredible, viable candidate"?
A lack of basic comprehension of the English language?

Where I come from, "Incredibe & viable" are oxymoronic.

I was going to comment earlier, but gbaji brings out the pedant in me Smiley: inlove
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#31 Feb 25 2008 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
What about Obama makes you view him as an "incredible, viable candidate"?
His incredibleness and his viableness. Duh.

Alixana, feel free to put your premium to good use and search "Obama" under Gbaji's name before bothering to humor him. I think you'll soon realize that therein lies a road of futile arguing as Gbaji says "Nuh huh!!" over and over and predicts that McCain will take the California vote.
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#32 Feb 25 2008 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess Pat Paulson must have died sometime in the last decade or so.
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#33 Feb 25 2008 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Nobby wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What about Obama makes you view him as an "incredible, viable candidate"?
A lack of basic comprehension of the English language?

Where I come from, "Incredibe & viable" are oxymoronic.


hehe. I assumed she meant viable in the context of "a viable candidate", meaning "someone who could succeed at being elected", and not so much in the "meh, but workable" definition. But I suppose if we go out of our way to find meanings that don't mesh together, you're absolutely correct! ;)

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 4:29pm by gbaji
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#34 Feb 25 2008 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Alixana, feel free to put your premium to good use and search "Obama" under Gbaji's name before bothering to humor him. I think you'll soon realize that therein lies a road of futile arguing as Gbaji says "Nuh huh!!" over and over and predicts that McCain will take the California vote.


Yes. Because it's such a disaster for someone to explain why they think something without first researching who they're talking to. Are you saying that her answer should be different based on who's asking the question? Isn't that innately deceptive?
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#35 Feb 25 2008 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not at all. I'm just giving her fair warning. If she reads up on how you'll respond and wants a go at it, at least my conscious will be clean.

I view it as warning a person before they engage a four year old in "Knock Knock" jokes. It's cute and amusing for the first couple rounds and then becomes increasingly less cute as you realize that the kid is just going to keep repeating the same thing over and over and over.

But, hey, people still humor the kid say "Who's there?" so I'm sure you'll get a response.
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#36 Feb 25 2008 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Nobby wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What about Obama makes you view him as an "incredible, viable candidate"?
A lack of basic comprehension of the English language?

Where I come from, "Incredibe & viable" are oxymoronic.


hehe. I assumed she meant viable in the context of "a viable candidate", meaning "someone who could succeed at being elected", and not so much in the "meh, but workable" definition. But I suppose if we go out of our way to find meanings that don't mesh together, you're absolutely correct! ;)

Christ you're stupid. (You and Alixana both)

She (and you) fUcked up on 'incredible'

Viable (Potentially Successful) & Credible (believable) is what she meant.

"Incredible" - not believable.

There. I made it easy for you. Now tidy up the crayons and wash your hands.
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#37 Feb 25 2008 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Fix the fUcking servers!

Denial of Service attacks my ****!

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 7:49pm by Nobby
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#38 Feb 25 2008 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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/shrug

I saw it more as "Don't answer his question cause he'll actually question the answer you give!!!".

Honestly, if you can't defend why you support a political candidate, then how legitimate can your support be? In this specific case, I hear a huge number of people saying "Obama is an amazing candidate", and "Obama is incredible!", and a dozen variations of that. But when asked why they believe that, very few can actually point to any reason other then circular ones "Well. Because he's great!", or "Because he's a really good speaker and I like what he says...". Ok. What's he saying that's so great?


After playing this game for a relatively short amount of time, it's usually pretty apparent that most people supporting Obama just do so because they heard that a lot of people think Obama is great so they should to... At least that's what it seems like to me. I'd estimate that maybe 1 in 10 Obama supporters I've talked to have actually even mentioned his actual platform. And of those, about half of them get things completely wrong (like Singdall in that thread a few weeks ago).


So yeah. I think it's relevant to ask the question...
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#39 Feb 25 2008 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Nobby wrote:

She (and you) fUcked up on 'incredible'

Viable (Potentially Successful) & Credible (believable) is what she meant.

"Incredible" - not believable.

There. I made it easy for you. Now tidy up the crayons and wash your hands.


Your dictionary is apparently missing a definition line Nobby:

Quote:
incredible

Main Entry:
in·cred·i·ble Listen to the pronunciation of incredible
Pronunciation:
\(ˌ)in-ˈkre-də-bəl\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin incredibilis, from in- + credibilis credible
Date:
15th century

1 : too extraordinary and improbable to be believed <making incredible claims>
2 : amazing, extraordinary <incredible skill> <an incredible appetite> <met an incredible woman>
— in·cred·i·bil·i·ty Listen to the pronunciation of incredibility \-ˌkre-də-ˈbi-lə-tē\ noun
— in·cred·i·ble·ness Listen to the pronunciation of incredibleness \-ˈkre-də-bəl-nəs\ noun



I also assumed (as any rational person would) that she was using the definition that meant "amazing" and "extraordinary", and not "unbelievable"...


What sort of education did you receive again?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 4:55pm by gbaji
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#40 Feb 25 2008 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
What sort of education did you receive again?
Several. None of which you could ever afford.

To anglophones, Incredible = not believable.

I acknowledge that those whose edjamacashun relied on MTV and Batman re-runs might not grasp that.

Then again, you're from a country that thinks "momentarily" means "In a short while" when it means "for a short while".

Hence my alarm at Artard US pilots telling me "We will be landing momentarily" while I'm thinking 'well give me a chance to get off the fUcking plane!'

Edited to add: Perhaps she meant 'Wicked'?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:03pm by Nobby
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#41 Feb 25 2008 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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The sun set over the British Empire a long time ago Nobby. Get over it... ;)
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#42 Feb 25 2008 at 5:10 PM Rating: Default
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whoops! wrong account, on friend's computer.

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:11pm by Beruthiel
#43 Feb 25 2008 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
The sun set over the British Empire a long time ago Nobby. Get over it... ;)
Nice non-sequitur there my little ignoramus.

She fUcked up on her post. You swooned.

If we want to trade ghetto-trash interpretation of the English language, I bow.

Connatation vs denotation is sometimes a valid defence. In this case it makes you both look fick, innit.

Meanwhile, eat my poo.
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#44 Feb 25 2008 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
Actually, it's as simple as:

incredible: Obama is a great candidate who I believe has a unifying message, and good ideas. Yes, extraordinary, as in he appears to be leagues above other candidates. Of course, that's my opinion, but I never said I was speaking for everyone, did I? I am aware of the definition of "incredible".

viable: as in, he actually has a chance at winning the election.

Why was it so hard to understand what I meant, again? I'm not interested in getting into a debate of rhetoric only, sorry.


Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:16pm by Alixana
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#45 Feb 25 2008 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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Queen Alixana wrote:


incredible: Obama is a great candidate who I believe . . .

So why is that not credible? Smiley: dubious

I assumed you meant he is "credible" and "viable"; a statement with which I would agree.

They let people like you vote, don't they Smiley: rolleyes
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#46 Feb 25 2008 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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Queen Alixana wrote:
Why was it so hard to understand what I meant, again? I'm not interested in getting into a debate of rhetoric only, sorry.
Both of the constructions on those sentences make the baby Jesus cry.
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#47 Feb 25 2008 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
Holy nitpicking, batman. You know, sometimes words are not meant to be taken literally. Beyond that, the definition of "incredible: does include:
Quote:

1. so extraordinary as to seem impossible: incredible speed.
2. not credible; hard to believe; unbelievable: The plot of the book is incredible.


So, as far as candidates go, yes I find him to be extremely extraordinary in comparison to the others...and that I can't believe we finally have a candidate for whom I feel this way for.

It's as simple as:

"I think Obama is an extraordinary candidate, that also has a chance at winning the election! Hooray!"

Does my rephrasing of the statement satiate this now? Or shall we further go into debate on the meaning of "incredible"? Hey, if you think that that should discount me from voting, that's your prerogative. Smiley: cool

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#48 Feb 25 2008 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
Atomicflea wrote:
Queen Alixana wrote:
Why was it so hard to understand what I meant, again? I'm not interested in getting into a debate of rhetoric only, sorry.
Both of the constructions on those sentences make the baby Jesus cry.


Really? I do not consider myself to be the ultimate grammar genius, but I do try to at least be articulate. I am happy to hear any constructive criticism on my sentences there- but if you must know, I'm not always the most correct after twelve hour work days. You must forgive my ignorance and ineptitude.
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#49 Feb 25 2008 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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You're not very bright, are you?

I already threw you the denotation Vs connatation bone, but you failed to chew.

"Fat", I am led to believe (or perhpas 'phat') means 'worthy of merit' in fUcktard circles, but I thought grown-ups were talking here.

I expect gbaji to mangle the English languagem; it's his thing.

You created a false impression of concision, which I now acknowledge was an misjudgement.


Edited, Feb 25th 2008 8:31pm by Nobby
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#50 Feb 25 2008 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
No, I see what you meant. I admit I ignored it though, to argue my point. Hey, I am obviously too sleep deprived and over-worked to banter among your ilk, clearly. It has nothing to do with my intelligence or lack thereof. Oh, well- have fun everyone...see you when I am "adult" enough to post here.
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#51 Feb 25 2008 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Queen Alixana wrote:
You must forgive my ignorance and ineptitude.
You're not the boss of me, cupcake.
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