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#52 Apr 27 2006 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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Um... I never said that Democrats were doomed and Republicans had "smooth sailing". In fact, I stated several times that I have no idea if Dems are going to win back seats in Congress this fall or not.

I simply said that a 50% poll rate for Dems certainly does not guarantee success and if anything may indicate problems for the Dems this fall.

Polls this early before an election tend to reflect opinions on the current party in power. Period. I just personally feel that given the massive amounts of negative press that Republicans have gotten (both in the White House and Congress) over the last couple years Dems should be polling higher if they expect those numbers to carry them through an election.

I also argued that unless they present a "real platform" that includes a plan for dealing with global terror, they're going to have a very hard time keeping those numbers across a set of national elections. As election time comes nearer, voters will stop simply looking at what's going on right now and deciding if they like or don't like it, and will start looking at the alternative being presented by the Dems and decide if they like that "better". And that's a completely different decision to make.

It's easy to get lots of people to say they'd like something different then what they've got. It's a lot harder to get those same numbers of people to actually choose something different when it's a straight choice between one or the other. That's all I was pointing out. This early, voters being polled are basically answering the question "Do I think there's a better way to do this?". In 6 months, they'll be answering the question "Which solution of these two is better?". Again. Those are dramatically different questions, and poll results on one isn't going to accurately tell you how the choice will be made in the other.
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#53 Apr 27 2006 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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#54 Apr 28 2006 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
well, people are stupid as a whole, so really, the next election could go either way.

but like i said earlier, the current trend undercuttung support for this republican addministraition is not at all about republican vs democrats, it is about George Bush and the policies of his addministraition.

put McCain on the ticket, and the fight will be about Dems vs Repubs again.

the failures of this addministraition might not reflect the outcome of the next election. it will have some influence, but probably not a sweeping eye opening effect democrats might hope for.

and why?

because people are stupid as a whole.

even now, most republicans you ask on the street actually think the republican party is about the church and familey values. stupid sheep, and a testament to the advertising sucess of the republican party. say it and people will believe.....controlling the masses 101.

the republican party is about big bussiness. period.
the democratic party is about the people. period.

religion, abortion, familey values, all just platform to get you stupid sheep to like them. one of the first thing this "about religion and familey values" addminsitraition did when they got intooffice was terminat the Familey Leave Act. a bill that let a mother take time off to have a babe without the fear of getting fired for a certain amount of time. hows that for familey values?

and why?

because big bussiness didnt like not being able to fire emploees if they got pregnant and threatened to dip into their insurance co-pay thus jacking up their insurance costs.

adn the bill passed during the California waild fires that let the individual states mamage theri porperty without any federal oversight or controll? the same bill that is the subject of mamy federal lawsuits to stop states from using Immenant Domain under this bill to TAKE private land from individuals and seel it to big bussiness for a private for profit purpose.

this is the republican party.

as nothing to do with familey values or the church. it is about big bussiness, period.

a government by the people, for the people......

part of our constitution. the republican party is as anti american as communism is. but they seel it well. just ask the stupid sheep that think republican means familey values and the church.

say it and they will believe........"Iraq posses an immenant damger to the security of the United States of America....." ......crowd control 101. the republican party working....HARD....for you. just say it and they will beleive.

"i will FIRE anyone connected with the leaking of classified information to the press.....errr....IF it is actually determined it was a crime.....errr......unless the information was used in our fight against terrorism.....errr.....unless it was ME.
#55 Apr 28 2006 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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What a load of crap. Republican leadership may have strayed from the original party doctrines, but they're still much more for religion and family values than the Democrats.
Democrats support gay marrage, which goes against both religion and social tradition. Democrats support abortion, an idea not only against religion, but the best interests of population growth. Democrats repeatedly fight to supress the free exercise of Christianity, while upholding any abnormality that comes along and claims religious freedom.
They want nothing to do with equality, giving special rights to any group deviating from the norm, putting them ahead of the traditional value system. I agree that the war is being fought badly, and I would have done things differently at the beginning, but that doesn't change that our troops are their now. I've seen protesters at funerals for soldiers killed in action holding signs that read "One less murderer." and "A dead soldier is a good thing." How can that be family values?

You're right, Democrats are for the people, just not our people. Why else would Democratic leadership be at rallies protesting enforcement of our imagration laws? Because they want back into power, and to do that they'll flood this country with people looking for free handouts in exchange for a vote. Democrats will destroy this country if that's what it takes to win elections. Am I happy with Bush, no, but I'd take him over any Democrat. Republicans may not be 100% right on every topic, but they are still the only hope this county has. Go ahead and mock, I know you want to.

Edited, Fri Apr 28 12:42:03 2006 by Denogginizer
#56 Apr 28 2006 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Denogginizer wrote:
Democrats repeatedly fight to supress the free exercise of Christianity, while upholding any abnormality that comes along and claims religious freedom.


Damn you, first amendmant! Damn you to non-judeo-christian Hell!
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#57 Apr 28 2006 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm just saying it should aply to everyone, not just the people that agree with democrats.
#58 Apr 28 2006 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Denogginizer wrote:
I've seen protesters at funerals for soldiers killed in action holding signs that read "One less murderer." and "A dead soldier is a good thing." How can that be family values?


Are you talking about the God Hates **** people, who are ultra-conservative christians?

Not that the republican party wants anything to do with them anyway.
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#59 Apr 28 2006 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
Denogginizer wrote:
I'm just saying it should aply to everyone, not just the people that agree with democrats.


Whom you refer to as abnormalities.
#60 Apr 28 2006 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, the country was founded on Christian ideals and the constitution was written by God fearing men. Abnormal is anything deviating from the norm, so...yeah.
Congress ruled that the first amendment aplied only to speech not harmful to others, so I really wouldn't support the "God Hates ****" people either as it contains slurs, but if they had signs saying "God Hates Homosexuality" then I would support their right to that, just as much as the rights of the poeple on the street corner where I live with signs saying "Bush lied, people died.".
#61 Apr 28 2006 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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Democrats repeatedly fight to supress the free exercise of Christianity

Cite?

#62 Apr 28 2006 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Free exercise might have been the wrong coice of words. Free expression maybe better. When I say free exercise, I think of the banning of prayer is school, the 10 commandments from courthouses, the banning of the pledge of allegience for no other reason than the word God, etc.
[link=http://www.brentmorrison.com/020701Pledge_of_Allegiance.htm[/link]
Edited, Fri Apr 28 13:30:22 2006 by Denogginizer

Edited, Fri Apr 28 13:44:14 2006 by Denogginizer
#63 Apr 28 2006 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Free exercise might have been the wrong coice of words. Free expression maybe better. When I say free exercise, I think of the banning of prayer is school, the 10 commandments from courthouses, the banning of the pledge of allegience for no other reason than the word God, etc.

No one is stopping individuals or private groups from exercising or expressing religion. Those are all public institutions. Do you see the difference now?

#64 Apr 28 2006 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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... the banning of the pledge of allegience for no other reason than the word God


You do realize the the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1954 right? I'm a firm believer that the addition of "under God" was as much a product of the cold war as it was "to remind the nation to be humble in it's might" as Eisenhower said.

EDIT - The Pledge wasn't even officially recognized until the 1940's during wartime. It's not like this is a key piece to our founding Fathers vision of our nation.

For reference these are the changes to the Pledge.

Quote:
1892 to 1923:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
* 1923 to 1954:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
* 1954 to Present:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."


Edited, Fri Apr 28 14:06:36 2006 by baelnic
#65 Apr 28 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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crosses more of the same
Please excuse the linking job, just learning that skill.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Isn't banning the pledge because of God, removing prayer, and other such things prohibiting the free exercise? The very fact that these are public places should guaranty that freedom.
#66 Apr 28 2006 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Private prayer in school is completely kosher.
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#67 Apr 28 2006 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, I quit. I don't post in the Asylum to have to explain basic concepts to the people I'm arguing with.

There should be a random history/math/politics/science/technology trivia question people have to answer after hitting "post message," and if you answer incorrectly it rejects the post.

#68 Apr 28 2006 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, I quit. I don't post in the Asylum to have to explain basic concepts to the people I'm arguing with.

There should be a random history/math/politics/science/technology trivia question people have to answer after hitting "post message," and if you answer incorrectly it rejects the post.
Like "What is the sqrt of 2?" ?
#69 Apr 28 2006 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You do realize the the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1954 right? I'm a firm believer that the addition of "under God" was as much a product of the cold war as it was "to remind the nation to be humble in it's might" as Eisenhower said.

No, I didn't know that, thank you for tell me. That the government would add "under God" to something is surprising, and a little refreshing.
#70 Apr 28 2006 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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1.414, without needing a calculator

#71 Apr 28 2006 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
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denoggimizer said

Quote:
Some really fuc't up stuff


And you wonder why the rest of the world is scared stiff o' your country? And quite a lot of it is arming itself as fast as possible in case you decide to democratize them next..?
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#72 Apr 28 2006 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:
There should be a random history/math/politics/science/technology trivia question people have to answer after hitting "post message," and if you answer incorrectly it rejects the post.


You might be onto something there, Tricky.

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#73 Apr 29 2006 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Americans are asking: How will we fight and win this war? We will direct every resource at our command -- every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence, and every necessary weapon of war -- to the disruption and to the defeat of the global terror network.

This war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.

Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.

Our nation has been put on notice: We are not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans. Today, dozens of federal departments and agencies, as well as state and local governments, have responsibilities affecting homeland security. These efforts must be coordinated at the highest level. So tonight I announce the creation of a Cabinet-level position reporting directly to me -- the Office of Homeland Security.

And tonight I also announce a distinguished American to lead this effort, to strengthen American security: a military veteran, an effective governor, a true patriot, a trusted friend -- Pennsylvania's Tom Ridge. (Applause.) He will lead, oversee and coordinate a comprehensive national strategy to safeguard our country against terrorism, and respond to any attacks that may come.

These measures are essential. But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows. (Applause.)
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Uh....I don't actually see a "plan" anywhere in there. Certainly nothing exclusive to the Republican agenda, that's for sure. He talks about how he's going to "direct every resource to defeat the global terror network" and briefly goes over the sacrifices needed, but he doesn't actually outline any plan. Perhaps I'm being dense, but if you could highlight it for me from the above quote, I'd appreciate it.


Edited, Sat Apr 29 17:10:17 2006 by CoolDood
#74 Apr 29 2006 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. [...] We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans. [...] These measures are essential. But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows.

Duh.. it's obvious. We're going to win the war against terror by... umm... beating up all the terrorists. Also, we're try not to die. Then we'll win.

It's brilliant!! A strategy worthy of Alexander, Lee or Patton.
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#75 Apr 29 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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"with us or with the terrorists"

I certainly hope this doesn't mean that criticism of the administration's policies makes me a target.
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#76 Apr 29 2006 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Democrats are NOT trying to get the entire pledge of allegiance yanked out of america, they/we're just trying to get it so people who don't believe in the Christian form of God don't have to be pushed into saying it or being ostracized from their school-mates.

I personally stood up during the pledge, but I didn't believe it was necessary for me to actually say anything during it. I'm not being disrespectful to my country by sitting down, but I don't believe it should be a part of school everyday to actually "pledge your allegiance" to the country.

I live here, I vote, I work, I'm proud to be an American, why must we have a verbal pledge to prove it? Wars are basically over (unless you count what's happening in Iraq still, but I just think it's one huge mess after the "party"), so why do we have to "choose sides"?
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