"died for our sins"Follow

I have a copy of The Divine Comedy and in the footnotes somewhere is the answer to your question. However since I dont remember it verbatim and I dont care to flip through it right now you will just have to wait until I care to get around to it.

Right now I am going to eat chinese and watch a movie with the girlfriend.

Sorry, but that's a ******* ROTTEN practical joke to play, again regardless of the restitution made afterward. Personally, I'd be holding a grudge about it.

But then, this is the admittedly 100% biased view of a woman who believes the Bible is a propaganda document written for the purposes of keeping women subservient and slaves content with their lot.
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well, first, it wasnt ADAM who let a snake seduce him into doing the dirty deed. soooo, you reep what eve sowed. hehehehe

as far as propaganda, well, mabe yes, and mabe no. it was MAN who wrote the bible, not god, and man is inherantly flawed. the biggest flaw is creating god in our own immage. and by that i mean we tend to define events in a manner that we understand.

example, God made the earth in seven days.

Man: seven means seven. i understand seven. therefor, God made the earth in one of my normal weeks.

here, man defines what is related to him in terms he is familiar with. one of the reasons god used parables so often. trying to make our ignorant buts understand what he wants to say by relating it to us in terms familiar to us.

argument: what is time to a being who has always been adn always will be? a blink of an eye would have no more meaning than 100 billion years. and what would a "day" be before the very first sun was created? the word itself would have no meaning.

hence, mabe God wasnt trying to give us a timetable for creation, but was just trying to explain a series of events in terms we could understand at that time.

lets take it apart. god created the heavens and stars on day one. big bang? God created the earth and all the creatures on it on day two. evolution after the earth was formed from the big bang?

not saying that is how it happened, but just trying to show you that "propaganda" may be an apt term in applying to the bible in teh context that it was written by flawed beings, man. that could also explain the koran and other differant writtings with similar content, but taken out of context from each other. differant people trying to put in writting THEIR diffferant INTERPETATIONS of events at that time. redefining events in a manner they can relate to. and in the end, mabe twisting the actual meaning of any and eveyr thing out of context.

here are some facts.

the places and people in the Bible, Koran, and other such writings really did exist. mane have been verified through documents, adn writtings not realted to religion at all.

the places were real. the people were real.

the only thing in question is the events, and their meaning, which were realted to us by flawed beings, man, some with their own agenda, some mabe with their best intentions, but taken out of skew by their personal interpetation of the events.

is it perfect? not by a long shot. is it a lie? mabe some of it, mabe not. should you believe? up to you. the only thing you have to loose is eternity. but if you never really beleived it was yours to begine with, then you are not really going to miss it are you?

personally, i believe. i dont belive everything i hear in church. and i read with the understanding what was written was written by people as they interpeted the situation at that time.

for instance:
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"so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people..."
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i believe Gods word alone would be enough to forgive us of our sins, and i believe Jesus,s death was not about our sins as much as it was about showing us how to live so we dont destroy our future in the blink of an eye we are here.

God does not need a visual aid to clense us of our sins. he does not even need spoken word for anything other than to let us know God was the one doing it.

and Jesus did not have to die to clense us of our sins, but he did have to die to show us death is not the end of our existance.

i believe. adn like every one else, i try to define what i read in terms that i can understand, and i also understand those that came before me did the same when they wrote the Bible.

i do believe in God. i have little faith however in the Church itself. ANY of them, of ANY denomination.

there was a time, like Islam today, when Catholic priests found justification in the Bible to burn people alive at the stake if they believed in anything outside of the Catholic church.

the Bible has been used to gather power for man since man could write. the only thing differant with todays church is differant people injecting yet another interpetation of the bible on to the masses.

trust in no man. none. zero.

so what is the "truth"? cant tell you, i dont know. i only know i will interpet this world as best as i can in terms i can understand it and hope....hope.....i dont go too far astrey. we all have an inherant sence of right and wrong. for instance, killing is wrong. we know that. mabe we also all have an inherant sence of what the "truth" is about our lives, but we just dont trust ourselves enough to follow it?

dont follow. dont lead. just be true to yourself as best you can, and take everything you read and hear with the understanding it is the interpatation of a flawed being. including what you hear in church.

i think the kicker for me was our preist telling us to prey for support for our president. no doubt in my mind he didnt have a friggin clue about what God wants for us.

i believe in god. i just dont believe in man. so i personally subscribe to the propaganda theory. but remember, the best propaganda is usually based loosly on real facts. given that, wil you risk eternity to discredit the whole message, knowing mabe part of it is probably true?

just get a shovel, and sift through the crap till you find something you can hold on too, just like the rest of us. the places were real. the people were real. shovel through the rest for gems of truth in the rest.

Except you missed the part of the story that it wasn't god that did anything to Job at all. It was all satan's doing. Satan was allowed to do horrible things to Job. God didn't do it. Think of it like a school yard bully picking on kids while the teacher looks on. After a while he stepped in to stop it and rewarded Job. Satan is the *******.

Jesus, shmeesus. Everybody knows that the only way to free yourself from sin is to pay your indulgences.

So, God is somehow less of an as[Aqua]shole for sitting on the sidelines egging Satan on for the purpose of stroking his own ego by "testing" Job's faithfulness, than he would be if he had tormented the poor guy himself?

Your definition of "as[/Aqua]shole" and mine must differ, because anyone who sits passively by while a good person is tormented and does nothing to stop it is, in my book, an as[Aqua]shole.

Boy, those Germans are into all sorts of ****. Cars, indulgences...

Totem

This being the Land of the Free, you're absolutely welcome to believe that.

But, if we're discussing what the scriptures say rather than what we're individually making up on our own, I'm going to go with Hebrews.

So the little old church lady that has complete faith in God gets cancer. God does nothing about it and lets her die. That makes him an ******* for just staying on the sideline and not helping someone that has faith in him? She's in pain why doesn't he stop it? Because most likely she is going to heaven for her faith in God. Job got rewarded for his faith just as the little old lady did.




So if you see six guys jump another guy and start mugging him, you will jump in to save the day? Or be like the majority of society and just keep walking by? My guess is the latter.

I think most people just go to a church because their mommy/daddy make them and have not a clue about what their so-called faith is about. They don't know what they believe in and can't really explain what this all means even though they profess this faith.


Dunno if it was posted earlier but this is what 'died for a sins' means.

Back in th day (old testament) you know with all of the Moses and people of Israel ****... Anyway. They had to sacrifice animals basically to be forgiven of their sins. They couldn't just sacrifice any animal. It had to be the best of the best of their animals.... the first born and all that type crap. For forgiveness of certain sins different types of sacrifices had to be made but that's unimportant.

The problem was that they could never really be 100% atoned for because none of their sacrifices would ever be perfect enough.

So skip ahead a bit and there's some dude named Jesus. Supposedly he is the son of god (and is god and all of that trinity whatnot). Jesus lived a PERFECT life. He never sinned ever. Therefore he was a perfect sacrifice. He was such a badass sacrifice that he covered all of the sins of everyone.

This is why you hear things like 'Lamb of God'. He's the 'lamb' that was slaughtered for our sins and he was a perfect one so his death and sacrifice should atone for everyone's sins.


Keep in mind I don't believe this. I'm a Secular Humanist and Atheist (in the more agnostic sense but an atheist by definition nonetheless). Sorry if it offends anyone that I'm not but it's so sad that Christians can't backup their own faith or have a basic understanding of it. Sorry if I missed someone elses explanation of it as I started skimming after all of the half-assed guess atempts.

I beg to differ regarding the "normal" remark.

That's a typical short bus kid response. Yes Meliana, you ARE special.

/nod

After quite some time here, I have to sigh as the same posts head the same way into the same arguments year after year. An explanation of doctrine invariably leads into a discussion about who believes and who doesn't, which is ultimately pointless and doesn't answer the question.

In other words, +1.