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Elderon.. I love you to man...lol

I'd suggest that people do some actual research on poverty in the U.S. specificially what consititues it.

.5% of America's population controls appr. 50% of the wealth. It's been that way since the inception of the corporation.

Saying that opportunities are everywhere and that you can lift yourself up out of poverty is a dream. The practical reality is that you will only marginally increase your wealth but never in-fact become "wealthy".

I mean if you want to just shoot from the hip with WAG's with absolutly no anthropological or societal backup to it... fine. Sadly, to those that do have this background you'll give the impression that you're only quoting from CNN.

and why is this ***** getting rated down? at least she puts up a good argument, pus[Aqua][/Aqua]sies.

How many? 10-20? 100? The truth is that unless a vast majority of people (and not just the ones that you "know") can improve their fininancial situation, then the system keeps stratifiying more and more.

The system was BUILT from the ground up by rich people to directly impact other rich people. You can just look at the names of the "Founding Fathers" to discover where their priorities were.

Yes, some people become more successful but if the vast majority of people do not (everything being equal) and more and more slip closer to poverty, it's a broken system.




This is a farce. Most of the wealth in the WORLD has been in the same group of 5000-10000 people since the 1800's. The world does owe you something. The world owes you the chance to start out at exactly the same point as anyone else (without inherrent advantages) and continue till you die.

Hard work =/= success. It's a component to it but there is much more to it than a simplistic view that if you work hard enough you will succeed. That's a fairy-tale.

Edited, Tue Apr 18 08:21:36 2006 by Diveos

It is exactly this attitude (the world owes me something) that perpetuates the problem. While you are sitting there waiting to get what the world owes you (even though you are getting it because what the world owes is nothing), I'm out busting my rear end to make my life better. And it's not just people i "know". I work with community action groups and have seen many people make the sacrifices (including their pride and having that nice new pair of Nikes) to better their family.



This is also the same liberal attitude that causes the education system to be so screwed up. Instead of making the lower performing kids own up to a higher standard, you want to hold back the higher performing kids. After all, This would: For the sake of the future open your eyes. It's not about everyone being on the same "level playing field", it's about making people strive (yes that means they would have to get up off of their lazy but and turn off the TV) to EARN what they want.

I find it amusing that most "poor" people have cable television (in many cases more than one) and wear all the up to date fashion clothes. Yet they scream they can't afford to go to school and get an education. Don't ask me to feel sorry for someone who is not willing to shed some sweat and tears to get themselves up in the world.

Maybe my density is shinning through, but what exactly does that have to do with getting up off you your(not you specifically)lazy but and doing something. If the estate tax dissapeared, would that not also help those who made something of themselves and wish to pass their spoils on to their children.

And even if you inhearit the money, you don't keep and grow it by spending it wildly and wrecklessly. You do it with well management.

I'll address the other points you brought up in a few days (I'm in the middle of a 5 day week of exams atm)




That's taken out of context. Start OUT on an equal plane. That means that all things being equal that they rest on their abilities alone and not their familial connections.

I actually believe in a much stricter version of meritocracy culture but this is all i have time for.

Again... it's based on everyone being equal at birth... after that anything is fair game.

Is a million dollars really "wealth" in this day and age?

Not that I'd sneeze at a thousand grand but I don't most people would expect to see you walking around with a monocle, cigarette holder and silver-tipped cane over a million bucks.

I live quite comfortably as is, and I have a feeling this scheme would make me less comfortable. The healthcare would cost me more and be less effective, and it continues.

Also, if wealthy people only get wealth from parents... where do they get it from? My great grandfather had nothing when he immigrated (legally) to this country. He worked hard to bring his wife from Italy and to have enough to make a better life for the next generation. My grandfather was fairly wealthy as a result of his father's work and my father and his brothers had the capital to start a franchise chain that has stood them in good stead for the last 30 years in the south. From this I got a good education, and small head start on my graduating peers.

You want to take some of that money and time that my family has invested over almost the last hundred years and use it to make others "comfortable". Excuse me for being calous, but ******* off[/i].

It seems to me when you tax the top of a population to help the bottom you deal with a resentment factor. Why should some wanna-be Rockafeller donate $10M to a cause when the government is going to tax him for $1M anyway. "They can take that and be glad". People stop handing out bread in the streets when the government starts taking it from their kitchens.

Thats how I feel when I see 30% of my paycheck dissapear every other week anyway. I still give to charity, the red cross, march of dimes, and just about any other cause that I have money for when I can. I'm not at the point where I can create jobs by starting buisinesses or anything, but I can tell you I'll get there 30% slower. I'm not living hand to mouth either, so I can afford to give a little.

Don't think I'm proposing a donation only tax system or anything but I just can't see that taking, even just enough for housing, from the rich to give to the poor. You then have a society that minimaly rewards non-working units. It cheapens the value of work in general, and if poor people had houses, the Govn't would probably see fit to drop minimum wage since they can't tax you on it anyway.

I think you'd have more luck with a sales-only tax. That way you could keep all of what you didn't want to spend. You could invest easier by not spending and wouldn't need to worry about the government taking what you want to save.

Of course, niether the "fair" tax or the current tax are perfect solutions as our nation needs a reliable form of income represented by the income tax. But trust me, every time you tax one of the Bill Gates, George Bushes, or Microsofts of the world... they're taking that dollar back from the consumer.

I have managed to ramble on and on. Bottom line: I'm not getting Social Security, FAFSA, or any government aid and I never will because I'll never qualify. Keep your mits off my money because I'll need it when I don't.

Undead.. Wake the **** up. No one wants you to. It's the people that control the HUGE amount of wealth that need to give it up.

When you have millions of dollars being forwarded on through generations (Rothechilds, Rockefellers, Buggers) you end up with inherited wealth. It's not just wealth though, it's the home, businesses, connections and associtions that are passed as well.

When you have such an established base of wealth you SHOULD be giving it up because wealth for wealth sake is a bad way to run a society and most of the wealth either donated should be used to bring up the rest of the country.

There is something like 300 trillion dollars locked up in the top percentage of the U.S. right now. You don't think that that money could be better spent at the healthcare issues? So that the poor that can't afford it can, don't get sick, make more money and then put it back into the economy? Makes sence to me... but then i'd be taking some of someone elses hard earned cash...and god knows that money is all that matters.