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So these kids have had at least 2 years to take the test (Junior and Senior years, assuimg they wait until they actually have finished 10th grade English) and they are unable to pass it. They want to slide on with a diploma that indicates that they have knowledge that they don't have.

Sorry you may have impressed a teacher enough to pass the course, but the exam tests your knowledge. Teachers can be lenient on students passing them for their effort.

On the news last night people (predominantly Hispanic and Asian) were protesting they should not be held to the same (all be it low) standard as native English speakers. The test is even at the 10th grade (8th for math) level, so even if English is not your first language, by your Senior year you should have enough understanding of the language to take the test.

"Albeit", not "all be it"

With that out of the way, I don't think that diplomas should be issued without passing the basic compentency exam.

I'd write more, but it's lunchtime

I can see some valid points on both sides of this issue. I agree that students should be able to demonstrate some rudimentary knowledge of the basics before being granted their diplomas, however...



Actually, exams test how well you take exams, and little else. It has been shown repeatedly that even students with a solid knowledge of a subject can do poorly on an exam if they are poor test-takers and/or the exam is poorly crafted. I am an excellent student, and a decent test-taker, and I've been sunk once or twice by poorly constructed exams. My first attempt taking Anatomy and Physiology, for example, I had to withdraw from the class after the second midterm because I had absolutely no chance of doing better than a C, even though I was studying my *** off. Took it again with another teacher whose tests covered the same material just in a different format, and got a solid A.

I've had many profs who refuse to give a final exam, and instead have you write a paper or do a project which demonstrates your knowledge of the subject matter, mainly because of just this problem.



Again, this an issue on which I'm torn. The part of me that was testing with post-collegiate reading and writing skills in the 7th grade thinks, "10th grade English is EASY!" and gets indignant at the thought that someone wanting to graduate high school shouldn't have a grasp of it. But then, I suspect I wouldn't be so cocky if I had immigrated to, say, Japan in the 9th grade and was expected to pass a test in 10th grade Japanese within the next 2-4 years.

I have to wonder, except for the classes themselves, what preparation are these kids being given for the test? Are there special preparation/refresher classes, such as with the SATs? Study guides? Tutors available? If the test examines you on 8th grade math, and the last math class you too was in the 9th grade, three years ago, there's a lot you've forgotten in that time. Two years ago, I aced chemistry. Today, I'd flunk a chem exam if I had no refresher beforehand.

So, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that these kids want a free ride, though undoubtedly there are some that DO. I suspect there are many who would be justified graduating, but are being blocked by a poorly conceived and crafted arbitrary testing system implemented more by overzealous politicians and less by actual education specialists.

Then the problem would be with the test itself, not with the concept of testing.

Being able to recall knowledge is a very important aspect in life. If you cannot recall knowledge then you do not deserve a certification stating that you can.

I agree with you, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that will prevent people from passing a basic competency exam. Should we give them a Diploma too, just so they feel better about themselves? Devaluing all of the other Diploma's that we're earned in the process?

This test is not rocket science. It is a basic exam for a basic certification. If you cannot pass it you do not deserve the certification.

thanks...I r learnin everyday.

I graduated from a public high school in Florida.

In my Junior year (1994-95), all the students at my school had to take something called the HSCT - the High School Competancy Test. This was a mandatory test that you had to pass in order to officially graduate as a senior.

The HSCT was administered over the course of an entire school day. You started taking it during first period and you had until the final bell to complete the exam. There was an English section and a Math section. Neither were harder than 10th-grade level, so if you were a Junior, you should have been able to finish the test.

The reason the exam was given in our Junior year was so that if you failed, you could take special classes during your Senior year in order to be able to pass it the second time around. You only had to pass once.

The school I was at was somewhat desperate to increase their graduation rate.



I don't remember the specific contents of the exam. I recall sitting down for it at 7:45a, opening the booklet promptly at 8:00a, finishing the entire thing by 8:25, handing it in, and walking back to my first class of the day.

It was a pretty good day for me - most of my classes were completely empty. I don't think I saw another student 'til third period, and classes were barely half full after lunch.

Reviewing my scores later, I found I missed a math question (probably just misread it or was hurrying a bit too much to fill in the scantron sheet).



This exam was utterly worthless. It proves nothing about what you've learned in school. It proves nothing about whether or not you are ready to take on the challenges of real life.

A housecat could probably pass that exam.

And yet, despite the absolute rock-bottom standards that exist for this type of test, some decent percentage of kids failed it every single year. Some failed it multiple times.. and some, despite targeted classes designed to teach you how to beat this ultra-easy test, failed to pass it at all and were held back from graduating high school.

Scary.


I'd say this is a good thing, that we always need folks to do landscaping and work at fast food restaurants, but current events suggest that Mexico is going to totally out-compete this generation's slackers.

Yeah. That is true. However, they're also testing basic math and language skills that one really should have in order to be able to do more then the most basic work as an adult, right? These arne't freaking AP exams. They are *incredibly* simple. And you're given multiple opportunities to pass.

I just think that exams for specific subject matter are one thing, and very basic math/language tests are something entirely different. These are simple pass/fail tests. They don't affect your GPA. You just have to pass once. I can certainly buy the argument that exams as a whole can adversely reflect the learning skills of some students simply because some students don't do as well on tests in general. But I just don't buy that argument in this case. If you can't pass the test, you're not going to be able to do much of anything later in life.



I think this calls to question "what does a High School diploma mean?". To me, a high school diploma means that the person is reasonably capable at functioning as an employee within the culture/nation he/she is diploma'd. I would expect a high school graduate to be able to read and write in the language of the nation and be able to do basic math in his/her head.

I would certainly not expect to be able to get a Japanese diploma if I couldn't pass a Japanese language test. Because that would mean I would not possess the skills assumed to be present in a high school graduate, right?

It really does come down to expectations. What do we think that a high school dimploma means? Is it just a certificate that says that you showed up most of the time and didn't drool too much? Or is it an actual paper stating your achademic qualifications? I'm personally of the second school of thought. If you can't pass a test like that, you shouldn't have a diploma. You haven't earned it...

The test in question is easier then a GED. By a long shot...

I thought this was going to be an exam in order to drop out of high school. If it was I wouldn't know what I would do.

I had no problem with the Texas version, it was basic information well below what we had to do in class. I struggled through most of my english classes, but had no problem getting a high score on my essay, though my teacher would of flunked it.

I can see your arguement about tests mainly show how people take test that is true, but writting major papers are limited in the same fashion. Test can show how a person deals with stress and retain knowledge. Major papers are a good way of showing how a person plans and researches. Both are important things for students to learn, that is why I am glad to pass english III, and english IV we had major papers to due that could fail the class for us.

This was my first thought, as well. When I arrived in the US, I was placed into the seventh grade because I knew English sufficiently well, but even so test-taking was vastly different from what it had been in my home country. There it was based more on rote memorization and the regurgitation of facts and dates. Here, everything seemed obscure and analytical. I needed a couple of years before I could successfully make the mental shift.