Had a debate between a few of my friends the other day; one is a staunch Lutheran, one is a former Catholic, and I'm Catholic, but non-practicing (thus pretty much aligning myself with the second friend).
The first friend started with the statement: "Christianity is a religion. Catholicism and Protestantism are offshoots of it."
My second friend said: "Bull. Ask a conservative Catholic if they are the same religion as a Protestant. You'll be set on fire; but splashed with holy water and prayers right before you die. Then they'll kill you to put you out of your misery."
My take: "It's tough to say. Most of the time, Christianity hits both. But if you ask the specific members of each offshoot what they think, and they'll have their own opinions. It is tough to know who is right."
What I basically summed up my position as was: Christianity is a belief. It encompasses both Catholicism and Protestantism, plus everything that Protestantism branches off into. However, a religion is not just a belief: it is a system organized around a belief. Because "Christianity" itself is not a structure (as some "Christians don't use the Bible, and many debate what Christ actually said/did/meant...), it is therefore not a belief until you reach one of its stuctured offshoots, such as Catholicism, or a Protestant religion.
Any takers on the subject?
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Christianity vs. Catholicism: which is religion?Follow
I think Wikipedia covered it best
Christianity encompasses numerous religious traditions that widely vary by culture and place, as well as many diverse beliefs and sects.
Christianity encompasses numerous religious traditions that widely vary by culture and place, as well as many diverse beliefs and sects.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Christianity vs Alcoholism: which is religon?
You can make a case for alcoholism, I mean they do occasionally, after a nasty bender pray to the 'porcelain god'.
How about 'Alien vs Predator' or ' Jason vs Freddy' ?
Any takers?
You can make a case for alcoholism, I mean they do occasionally, after a nasty bender pray to the 'porcelain god'.
How about 'Alien vs Predator' or ' Jason vs Freddy' ?
Any takers?
Christianity would encompass all Christian religions. A Christian religion is one that believes Jesus Christ to be the savior. Catholics follow right alone with Protestants in this belief, and are thus Christians. Yes Protestants have shot off from the Catholic religion, but how many times has the protestant religion split into seperate denominations? There is quite a list that can be seen on wiki.
Mormons freak me out though.
Mormons freak me out though.
Matthew 15 wrote:
1Some Pharisees and teachers of religious law now arrived from Jerusalem to interview Jesus. 2"Why do your disciples disobey our age-old traditions?" they demanded. "They ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat."
3Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4For instance, God says, `Honor your father and mother,' and `Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say, `You don't need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.' 6And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,
8
`These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far away.
9
Their worship is a farce,
for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings.' "
10Then Jesus called to the crowds and said, "Listen to what I say and try to understand. 11You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do."
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?"
13Jesus replied, "Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be rooted up, 14so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."
3Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4For instance, God says, `Honor your father and mother,' and `Anyone who speaks evil of father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say, `You don't need to honor your parents by caring for their needs if you give the money to God instead.' 6And so, by your own tradition, you nullify the direct commandment of God. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was prophesying about you when he said,
8
`These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far away.
9
Their worship is a farce,
for they replace God's commands with their own man-made teachings.' "
10Then Jesus called to the crowds and said, "Listen to what I say and try to understand. 11You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do."
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you realize you offended the Pharisees by what you just said?"
13Jesus replied, "Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be rooted up, 14so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."
Edited, Tue Dec 6 13:52:03 2005 by xythex
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
For a Catholic to say that they are not Christian would be to deny the basic tenenant of thier faith.
That Jesus Christ died for thier sins to save them.
That alot of Catholics do, shows just what a bunch of total retards they can be. Religion seems to turn some peoples brain to mush.
That Jesus Christ died for thier sins to save them.
That alot of Catholics do, shows just what a bunch of total retards they can be. Religion seems to turn some peoples brain to mush.
Quote:
Religion seems to turn some peoples brain to mush.
mushy brains turn to religion.
1 Corinthians 2 wrote:
12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Quote:
12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The conceit and arrogance of the Christian faith never ceases to amaze me.
Isn't Matthew 16:18, 1st Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, 1 Peter 2:5–6, and Revelations 21:14 pretty much the entire basis and reasoning for the existance of the Catholic Church?
Quote:
Isn't Matthew 16:18, 1st Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, 1 Peter 2:5–6, and Revelations 21:14 pretty much the entire basis and reasoning for the existance of the Catholic Church?
Technically according to Christian doctrine "The Spirit" is from God. So those who have not recieved God would not have "The Spirit" in them.
I think maybe you might be looking at the definition of spirit from another angle.
I think maybe you might be looking at the definition of spirit from another angle.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Quote:
I think maybe you might be looking at the definition of spirit from another angle.
Truely spiritual individual would never deny another person had spirit purely because they believed in a different form of spirituality.
Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like.
Quote:
I could say the same thing about you.
Truely spiritual individual would never deny another person had spirit purely because they believed in a different form of spirituality.
Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like.
The Spirit to a christian means the Holy Spirit, 1/3 of the holy trinity that makes up god. They believe that when Jesus left he sent the Holy Spirit into all christians to assist them in their wordly journey.
You are looking at the word spirit as sort of meaning a soul, which in the case is not its meaning. Its also not saying that they believe that non-christians arn't spiritual, just that they are not christians and therefore cannot have the actualy "Holy Spirit of God" in them since they don't believe in him.
Edited, Tue Dec 6 15:43:06 2005 by TheDakster
Saw a bumper sticker yesterday that said:
"God bless everyone, no exceptions."
One of the better stickers that seems to say a nice FU to those cults who think their way is better then others.
There are a lot of nice, intelligent athiests and a lot of fanatic, ******** sheetheads who would stab their mother in the back because a drug induced dream told them so.
I don't follow the cathlic faith anymore. I believe that hard work and proper planning is the best way to make it through life.
and **** happens every once in awhile. Deal with it.
Don't rely on some higher power to make it go away.
"God bless everyone, no exceptions."
One of the better stickers that seems to say a nice FU to those cults who think their way is better then others.
There are a lot of nice, intelligent athiests and a lot of fanatic, ******** sheetheads who would stab their mother in the back because a drug induced dream told them so.
I don't follow the cathlic faith anymore. I believe that hard work and proper planning is the best way to make it through life.
and **** happens every once in awhile. Deal with it.
Don't rely on some higher power to make it go away.
Quote:
I could say the same thing about you.
Truely spiritual individual would never deny another person had spirit purely because they believed in a different form of spirituality.
Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like.
Truely spiritual individual would never deny another person had spirit purely because they believed in a different form of spirituality.
Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Conceit wrote:
con·ceit Pronunciation Key (kn-st)
n.
1. A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's own abilities or worth.
2. An ingenious or witty turn of phrase or thought.
3.
1. A fanciful poetic image, especially an elaborate or exaggerated comparison.
2. A poem or passage consisting of such an image.
4.
1. The result of intellectual activity; a thought or an opinion.
2. A fanciful thought or idea.
5.
1. A fancy article; a knickknack.
2. An extravagant, fanciful, and elaborate construction or structure: “An eccentric addition to the lobby is a life-size wooden horse, a 19th century conceit†(Mimi Sheraton).
n.
1. A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's own abilities or worth.
2. An ingenious or witty turn of phrase or thought.
3.
1. A fanciful poetic image, especially an elaborate or exaggerated comparison.
2. A poem or passage consisting of such an image.
4.
1. The result of intellectual activity; a thought or an opinion.
2. A fanciful thought or idea.
5.
1. A fancy article; a knickknack.
2. An extravagant, fanciful, and elaborate construction or structure: “An eccentric addition to the lobby is a life-size wooden horse, a 19th century conceit†(Mimi Sheraton).
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arrogance wrote:
ar·ro·gance A
Pronunciation Key (r-gns)
n.
The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.
Pronunciation Key (r-gns)
n.
The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.
A truely spiritual individual does not waver in his faith, in fact he believes so strongly in it that he wishes to share it with the world because he truely believes it is correct.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
quote:
"Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen.
"Hense the Conceit and arrogance... you can look those up aswell if you like."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen.
Quote:
Conceit
1. A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's own abilities or worth.
1. A favorable and especially unduly high opinion of one's own abilities or worth.
Quote:
The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.
The crusades
The Inquisision
The Holocaust
Iraq.
need i go on?
Quote:
A truely spiritual individual does not waver in his faith, in fact he believes so strongly in it that he wishes to share it with the world because he truely believes it is correct.
Closeminded because he refuses to open his mind to the fact that other possibilities may be equally correct and a Hypocrite because if he is Christian he just made himself guilty of at least 1 of the cardinal sins.
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
No, not really it was the pollitical situation in 3rd centuary Rome, Constantine had to do something.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
tarv of the Seven Seas wrote:
No, not really it was the pollitical situation in 3rd centuary Rome, Constantine had to do something.
Deja vu
No, not really it was the pollitical situation in 3rd centuary Rome, Constantine had to do something.
Deja vu
he manages to argue christianity for a learned and thoughtful angle that shows he has looked beyond the words to what the author(s) where atually driving at.
A Christian by definition does not take pride in himself nor does he have an unduly high opinion of his own abilities or worth.
In order to become a Christian he has admitted he has failed God. He has admitted he is most likely to fail again and again, that he is imperfect. He has accepted God's redemption in Christ and in return promises to share the news with others.
A Christian hates his life, he hates the person that he has been. His goal is to follow God's teachings like a child, without haughtiness, pride, and conceit.
He prays that in reflecting Christ he will grow as a child grows to become a better person.
In order to become a Christian he has admitted he has failed God. He has admitted he is most likely to fail again and again, that he is imperfect. He has accepted God's redemption in Christ and in return promises to share the news with others.
A Christian hates his life, he hates the person that he has been. His goal is to follow God's teachings like a child, without haughtiness, pride, and conceit.
He prays that in reflecting Christ he will grow as a child grows to become a better person.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Certianly you could call a Christian closeminded or rather close hearted. One of the tenants of Jesus's teachings is that through forgiveness is the only way to the father.
But calling someone hypocritical because of someone elses sins is akin to saying that because all apples are fruit then all fruit must be apples.
But calling someone hypocritical because of someone elses sins is akin to saying that because all apples are fruit then all fruit must be apples.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Since you totally missed my point i will quote if youI would say that falls under the header of vanity wouldn't you?
Strike 3, you're out.
oh and just for the record i wasn't calling Christians Concieted and arrogant, i was calling Christianity
Edited, Tue Dec 6 16:20:07 2005 by tarv
Quote:
in fact he believes so strongly in it that he wishes to share it with the world because he truely believes it is correct.
Strike 3, you're out.
oh and just for the record i wasn't calling Christians Concieted and arrogant, i was calling Christianity
Edited, Tue Dec 6 16:20:07 2005 by tarv
Quote:
I would say that falls under the header of vanity wouldn't you?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vanity wrote:
van·i·ty
Pronunciation Key (vn-t)
n. pl. van·i·ties
1. The quality or condition of being vain.
2. Excessive pride in one's appearance or accomplishments; conceit. See Synonyms at conceit.
3. Lack of usefulness, worth, or effect; worthlessness.
4.
1. Something that is vain, futile, or worthless.
2. Something about which one is vain or conceited.
5. A vanity case.
6. See dressing table.
7. A bathroom cabinet that encloses a basin and its water lines and drain, usually furnished with shelves and drawers underneath for storage of toiletries.
Pronunciation Key (vn-t)
n. pl. van·i·ties
1. The quality or condition of being vain.
2. Excessive pride in one's appearance or accomplishments; conceit. See Synonyms at conceit.
3. Lack of usefulness, worth, or effect; worthlessness.
4.
1. Something that is vain, futile, or worthless.
2. Something about which one is vain or conceited.
5. A vanity case.
6. See dressing table.
7. A bathroom cabinet that encloses a basin and its water lines and drain, usually furnished with shelves and drawers underneath for storage of toiletries.
So If I notice that you put your lugnuts on wrong and it looks to me that your tire is about to fall off on the expressway, and I flag you down to tell you how to put them on the way I feel is right it makes me vain? If I'm telling you the wrong way to put them on it might make me stupid, maybe even obnoxious but certainly not vain.
I'm not taking pride in my acomplishments. Truely I could care less if you think I am a good Christian or even good person or not I actually fully expect you to hate me for who I am. But, if you wish to hear the good news I am certainly more than willing to share it.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Quote:
So If I notice that you put your lugnuts on wrong and it looks to me that your tire is about to fall off on the expressway, and I flag you down to tell you how to put them on the way I feel is right it makes me vain? If I'm telling you the wrong way to put them on it might make me stupid, maybe even obnoxious but certainly not vain.
I'm not taking pride in my acomplishments. Truely I could care less if you think I am a good Christian or even good person or not I actually fully expect you to hate me for who I am. But, if you wish to hear the good news I am certainly more than willing to share it.
I'm not taking pride in my acomplishments. Truely I could care less if you think I am a good Christian or even good person or not I actually fully expect you to hate me for who I am. But, if you wish to hear the good news I am certainly more than willing to share it.
Here i will quote it again for you
Quote:
in fact he believes so strongly in it that he wishes to share it with the world because he truely believes it is correct.
But well done for totally missing the point again.
Are you using a different definition of vanity than I quoted? By your definition; Firemen are vain for thinking its right to put out fires that arsonists start. Police are vain for stopping crimes. Doctors are vain for performing surgeries on unconcious patients. Every one who does anything because they feel it is right is vain?
Every man does as he feels is right in his own eyes. Who does differently than what he feels is right? I'm not missing your point, you're stretching your definitions. Just because I think I am doing something right and I think you are doing it wrong doesn't make me vain, it either makes me enlightened or stupid.
Every man does as he feels is right in his own eyes. Who does differently than what he feels is right? I'm not missing your point, you're stretching your definitions. Just because I think I am doing something right and I think you are doing it wrong doesn't make me vain, it either makes me enlightened or stupid.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
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