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Little girls that cry rape are badFollow

#152 Aug 25 2005 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
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While I understand why the term "date rape" came about, I don't like it. I don't think we should distiguish between types of rape. Rape is rape. Just because one girl may know her attacker and another girl is getting jumped at night on her way to her car doesn't make the end result any different.

labels, labels, I fuucking hate labels


I have that problem with the concept of the "hate crime".
#153 Aug 25 2005 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Too long to read. The title said all I need to know.


then you must have ADD
anyway should read it is very good information u may learn something
#154 Aug 25 2005 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske wrote:
Quote:
While I understand why the term "date rape" came about, I don't like it. I don't think we should distiguish between types of rape. Rape is rape. Just because one girl may know her attacker and another girl is getting jumped at night on her way to her car doesn't make the end result any different.

labels, labels, I fuucking hate labels


I have that problem with the concept of the "hate crime".


Same here. Crime is crime, idiots are idiots. Punish the action, not the opinion.
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#155 Aug 26 2005 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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As the boys from South Park put it, "Hate crime - a moral hypocrisy". It was a season 4 episode I think, "Cartman's Silly Little Hate Crime".
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#156 Aug 26 2005 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have a problem with much of the "hate crime" concept as well but I don't think they compare. There's a number of laws which make hate crimes an additional charge (i.e. burning down a mosque vs burning down an office) but date rape cases are still legally tried as a rape charge.
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#157 Aug 26 2005 at 2:22 PM Rating: Default
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i love the title. lol that got my attention, but then i saw it was really long
#158 Aug 27 2005 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
I don't want to **** anyone off, and I generally try to get along with everyone, but from what I read (first 2 pages) of this thread it seems like a bunch of females taking their anger out on a male because they don't want to believe what logic dictates.

It is simple.

A good friend of mine had a saying. One of purely comedic value, a parody of the subject if you will. It is NOT meant as literal truth, though I expect to be flamed for posting it anyway. There is some small truth to it anyhow.

The saying? "There is no such thing as rape. A woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down."

Granted, it's a very sexist and politically incorrect joke, and I don't personally agree with it. Yet there is a grain of truth.

Example. The situation mentioned earlier in which a woman is on a date and threatened with being stranded somewhere far from home if she refuses a sexual act with the driver. If she chooses to perform a sexual act, it is not physical rape. It is coercion. Were she to refuse and be forced (physicaly - forced to have to find an alternate way home doesn't count) to consent then the story would be different. As it is, she makes a choice.

The choice is simple too. She has three options. 1. Perform tha act without protest. 2. Find an alternate ride home and avoid a sexual act entirely. And 3. Protest the act, and if it is forced, to then act until she can get a grip on the pervert's balls, squeeze hard and drag him out of the car naked.

There are other choices as well, but these are the most obvious. Many of these might provoke the pervert into physical (forced) rape. But the threat of rape is NOT the same as actual rape and should never be treated as such.

If the woman in the example were to agree to the sexual act, even as a relult of mere threat, then she has not been physically raped. Perhaps phycologically raped, or mentally, but not physically. The logic is simple because it is sound. I can threaten whatever I want, and that threat may indeed be a crime. Pulling a gun on someone is illegal, threatening to take the life of another at gunpoint is a crime as well, but that crime is NOT rape. Any time a man puts his ***** near an unwilling mouth expecting a *******, he is endangering his very manhood. Women have teeth. Women have the power.

I'm a completely non violent person, and would never hurt anyone, but the subject at hand has nothing to do with personal politics or beliefs. The definition of rape HAS been redefined in this sickeningly politically correct society, and the only effect is that rape victims themselves suffer more as a result, and that pretentious sluts have an easy-out to use on a whim.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to avoid leaving physical evidence in the event of a physical rape, but that as long as there's a choice to be made (any choice to be made that would avoid a non-consentual sexual act) then it's not rape. Charge the criminal with the correct crime at least.

My $0.02
#159 Aug 27 2005 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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#160 Aug 27 2005 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pulling a gun on someone is illegal, threatening to take the life of another at gunpoint is a crime as well, but that crime is NOT rape
It is if you're using it to threaten the woman into having sex and it has been for at least the last fifty years in this state.
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#161 Aug 27 2005 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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This thread has become a perfect example of times where you hit "Reply to thread", then just hit the "back" button, because it's just not worth it.

Yes, I was originally going to argue some more. But why bother.
#162 Aug 27 2005 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Your post count weeps for you, Nadenu Smiley: frown
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#163 Aug 27 2005 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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I'm on a crusade to catch up to you.

by 2012
#164 Aug 27 2005 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The saying? "There is no such thing as rape. A woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down."


Wow, you're stupid.

Tell you what: when some fella 40 pounds heavier and much stronger than you decides to hold you down and fu[/i]ck you against your will, but doesn't leave bruises or use a gun on you, come on back here and tell us whether or not you were raped. K?

Until then, shut your ignorant fu[i]
cking pie hole and get the fu[i][/i]ck out of my house.
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#165 Aug 27 2005 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
Duchess SamiraX wrote:
Quote:
The saying? "There is no such thing as rape. A woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down."


Wow, you're stupid.

Tell you what: when some fella 40 pounds heavier and much stronger than you decides to hold you down and fu[/i]ck you against your will, but doesn't leave bruises or use a gun on you, come on back here and tell us whether or not you were raped. K?

Until then, shut your ignorant fu[i]
cking pie hole and get the fu[i][/i]ck out of my house.


Posting from rikers island?
#166 Aug 27 2005 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Here is an interesting article on this subject.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/12529-4.asp

Particularly sanguine to the above discussion would be the following:

Quote:
People invent allegations of sexual assault for reasons that should be regarded as criminal and despicable. One study showed that over a 9-year period, up to 16% of sexual assault allegations in one sexual assault examination center were shown after police investigation to be false allegations. Authorities, people accused of sexual assault, victims of sexual assault, and the perpetrators of false allegations should be aware that the possibility of a false allegation will be considered during the investigation of an assault.

In most cases of real sexual assault, ample evidence of the assault will exist. In cases of false accusations, it is equally likely that there will be clear signs that the accusation is false. Making false accusations is a crime.


Another article, which highlights the changes over time to the definition or rape:

http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v33-issue3/greer.pdf

and one that highlights the specific changes to law:

http://encarta.msn.com/text_761564013__1/Rape_(law).html

including a definition of date rape, which is very similar to the one presented earlier in this thread:

Quote:
An acquaintance may commit forcible rape. However, the term acquaintance rape is usually applied when the sexual intercourse is nonconsensual but does not involve the physical coercion typically associated with forcible rape, such as assault or threats of violence.


and the explicit notice that:
Quote:
As the legal definition of rape has expanded, more sexual acts count as rape.


Regarding the notion that a rape accusation should just be "dealt with" and has no real negative outcome, I offer this quote
Quote:
When the UKMM submitted an earlier petition in 1999 on false allegations, we quoted the that two completely innocent men had hung themselves in the space of two years as a result of being maliciously accused of rape.


From this petition to a Scottish court:
http://www.ukmm.org.uk/camp/rapealleg.htm

Anyhow, since there seems to be a strong bias toward providing proof, or citations to make a point, I figured I would make my inaugural post to this thread with that in mind.





Edited, Sat Aug 27 12:40:18 2005 by xaanru
#167 Aug 27 2005 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure what the first quote is supposed to represent. Filing false reports is a crime. It should be reported as a crime and treated as a crime. I don't think anyone here is arguing anything different.

xaanru wrote:
including a definition of date rape, which is very similar to the one presented earlier in this thread:

An acquaintance may commit forcible rape. However, the term acquaintance rape is usually applied when the sexual intercourse is nonconsensual but does not involve the physical coercion typically associated with forcible rape, such as assault or threats of violence.
I'm not sure how you interpret that but it sounds to me more like it's covering aspects of nonconsentual, nonforceful rape like drugging or heavily intoxicating which is a common theme in date rape cases but not all that common in your back-alley or parking garage scenarios.

xaanru wrote:
and the explicit notice that:
As the legal definition of rape has expanded, more sexual acts count as rape.
Which proves? That's in the conclusion of the entire section on rape, not anything particular to date rape. For example, the beginning of the section states:
In all states, if a man forcibly subjects a woman who is not his wife to sexual intercourse against her will, he has committed the crime of rape. Recently, an increasing number of states have extended the definition of rape to include certain nonconsensual incidents of intercourse—even if force was not involved—and the rape of one’s spouse. In other states, rape remains narrowly defined as forcible sexual intercourse, but separate statutes address other forms of sexual assault, including nonconsensual (but unforced) sexual intercourse and unwanted sexual activity other than intercourse.

Previously, marital rape was not illegal. Sex with a woman too intoxicated to give consent wasn't illegal. Oral sex wasn't always considered rape (per the OP). Until recently, inserting foreign objects into the ******/**** against the person's will was considered assault but not rape. None of which has anything to do with the term "date rape" expanding anything so much as a general expansion of which nonconsentual sexual acts are considered rape.

Quote:
When the UKMM submitted an earlier petition in 1999 on false allegations, we quoted the that two completely innocent men had hung themselves in the space of two years as a result of being maliciously accused of rape.
Gbaji would argue they were no doubt guilty of something Smiley: laugh

[sm]Nevermind... joke referring to another thread[/i]
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#168 Aug 27 2005 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure what the first quote is supposed to represent.


Quote:
up to 16% of sexual assault allegations in one sexual assault examination center were shown after police investigation to be false allegations.

In most cases of real sexual assault, ample evidence of the assault will exist. In cases of false accusations, it is equally likely that there will be clear signs that the accusation is false.


First, that false reports are pretty common. Second that there is usually clear evidence distinguishing between consentual sex and rape.

Quote:
I'm not sure how you interpret that but it sounds to me more like it's covering aspects of nonconsentual, nonforceful rape like drugging or heavily intoxicating


Yes it would include those, but note that it would explicitly EXCLUDE the earlier examples of threatening someone with a knife at their throat, or threats against their children.

Quote:
Which proves? That's in the conclusion of the entire section on rape, not anything particular to date rape.


No but one of the articles does mention a shift to a doctrine in which the woman must EXPLICITLY and verbally inform their partner of consent. This also relates to the concept of post hoc denial of consent, which IMO, is terrifying. A person can be an active, enthusiastic partner in a sexual encounter. If the following day they regret it, then, if they did not explicitly say "have intercourse with me" then they can claim that they were not consenting.

The only real problem, is that when dealing with rape charges, there is a reversal of the doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. As in the case of the OP, police ASSUME the victim is telling the truth, which can lead to harm to the accused, even in cases where there is ABSOLUTELY no truth to the charges. Plus, in the cases where the police do not unequivocally prove the innocence of the accused, but fail to find evidence linking them, they are left with a stigma, that might lead to actions such as those taken by the two youths in the last quote I had in my last post.

The law has gone from a point where the accused was given TOO MUCH protection, to one where they have too little.
#169 Aug 27 2005 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love to watch men argue with each other about women getting raped, or having babies, or the best choice of birth control, etc.

Perhaps we gals should start a thread about the heartbreak of an enlarged prostate.
#170 Aug 27 2005 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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xaanru wrote:
First, that false reports are pretty common. Second that there is usually clear evidence distinguishing between consentual sex and rape.
Which should make false reports that much easier to ferret out and punish.

Quote:
Yes it would include those, but note that it would explicitly EXCLUDE the earlier examples of threatening someone with a knife at their throat, or threats against their children.
An acquaintance may commit forcible rape. However, the term acquaintance rape is usually applied when the sexual intercourse is nonconsensual but does not involve the physical coercion typically associated with forcible rape, such as assault or threats of violence.

Obviously, we have widely differing ideas of what the word "usually" means if you think it explicitly excludes threat of force.

Yanari wrote:
I love to watch men argue with each other about women getting raped, or having babies, or the best choice of birth control, etc.

Perhaps we gals should start a thread about the heartbreak of an enlarged prostate.
I encourage you to if you feel you have something to say about it.

I'm more worried about women who feel certain issues are their exclusive baliwick to discuss than I am about women discussing male anatomy. The former is what helps lead to mindsets like Gbaji expressed in his initial postings. The latter might just help someone learn something.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#171 Aug 27 2005 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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I think I just trolled Jophiel! Smiley: wink2
#172 Aug 27 2005 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Probably. Smiley: grin

I'm in a grumbly mood tonight 'cause I can't play the City of Villans beta due to my dial-up connection unless I want to wait on a 120 hour download Smiley: dubious
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#173 Aug 27 2005 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Joph, have you tried a ritualistic sacrafice? Say a chicken, first born child, loved one, or community leader?


just sayin'
#174 Aug 27 2005 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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Probably. Smiley: grin

I'm in a grumbly mood tonight 'cause I can't play the City of Villans beta due to my dial-up connection unless I want to wait on a 120 hour download Smiley: dubious


Aww... the Princess has had her wings clipped!

omg can you fly??
#175 Aug 27 2005 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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What thread can't benefit from a little use of bailiwick?


#176 Aug 28 2005 at 12:03 AM Rating: Default
Yanari the Puissant wrote:
I love to watch men argue with each other about women getting raped, or having babies, or the best choice of birth control, etc.

Perhaps we gals should start a thread about the heartbreak of an enlarged prostate.


******* usually dont get arrested over false accusations of an enlarged prostate

Edited, Sun Aug 28 01:15:32 2005 by proofeleven
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