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How did Kerry earn that Silver Star?Follow

#1 Jun 06 2004 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
I respect any person awarded a Silver Star, that truly earned it. I was doing research to figure out who John Kerry really is and found the following. Among other interesting tidbits of information this one proved to be a good starting point to bring here and discuss the liberals "Golden Boy".

Quote:
Why Was Kerry Awarded the Silver Star?

In 1996 Senator Kerry was outraged by a column questioning the circumstances of his killing of the lone enemy soldier who had pointed a rocket launcher at his boat. Writer David Warsh for a Boston newspaper, noted that such a "coup de grace" would have been considered a war crime if the soldier had already been wounded. What followed was truly revealing.

Senator Kerry arranged a news conference at the Courageous Sailing Center in the Charlestown Navy Yard. Those who attended on Kerry's behalf was very interesting. They were none other then retired Admiral Zumwalt himself, who commanded U.S. naval forces in Vietnam; Capt. George Elliott, Kerry's CO at the time; retired Cmdr. Adrian Longsdale, who commanded shoreline operations at the time; Tom Belodeau, one of Kerry's gunners who had fired at the enemy soldier and knocked him down with his M-60. Participating by phone from San Francisco was Michael Medeiros, who was the rear gunner on Kerry's boat.

Amazing how willing and quickly they came together to defend Kerry that day - but I don't believe in reality they were not there to defend Kerry per se, but to protect a 30 year old secret and themselves. Kerry's superior officer's did not follow Navy protocol in awarding him the Silver Star, and they clearly not have been making accurate statements of the allege events that lead to the awarding of the medal ever since.

It all may well have remained a secret, known only to them, if it was not for some comments by Admiral Zumwalt recorded by Associated Press writer Glen Johnson:

Mr. Zumwalt also said he wanted to recommend Sen. Kerry for an even higher medal, the Navy Cross, but approval would have taken too long. Instead, he personally approved a Silver Star and sped along the award to improve morale at a time his sailors were taking heavy casualties.

Zumwalt's comments about wanting to award the Navy Cross to Kerry makes absolutely no sense because Kerry's allege actions no-where meets the the standards for such an award. Why did he suggest this? Because I think he wanted to remove doubts that Kerry may not have deserved the Silver Star, which would had drawn attention to why the medal was even awarded in the first place - clearly something Zumwalt would not want to draw attention to since, in affect, he awarded the Silver Star to Kerry for chasing down a lone fleeing wounded VC - killing him behind a hooch - all the while disregarding every standing order he was operating under and placing his four man crew in a position that could easily have lead them to being killed.

The most telling of all is Admiral Zumwalt's suggestion that he was motivated to award Senator Kerry as a means to "improve morale." This I think is an honest appraisal of the entire Kerry Silver Star episode - Kerry was not awarded for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action" on February 28, 1969, but given the Silver Star by Admiral Zumwalt in attempts of improving moral (Kerry became his Rambo poster-boy.)

I think maybe Kerry helped his case in the eye's of his commanding officer, George Elliot and Admiral Zumwalt by returning to base with a tall tall of how he had come face to face with an enemy soldier who held the life of him and his crew in his hands while pointing a B-40 at their boat at point blank range - Lt.(jg) Kerry jumps off the boat and runs him down and kills him single handily.

It's a great story, but unfortunately most likely a false story. The VC did not have a loaded B-40 because it was already discharged when he fired at Kerry swift boat and missed. There is another fact that leads me to believe that perhaps this incident was not as dramatic as Senator Kerry and his crew wants us to believe.

Reporter Charles Sennott once wrote that Senator Kerry was so "focused on his future ambitions," that not long after the fight, he bought a Super-8 movie camera, returned to the scene, and reenacted the skirmish on film. During their interview, Kerry played the tape for Sennott. Apparently Senator Kerry had strong reason to believe that he and his crew would not be entering an angry hornets nest of hostile Viet Cong soldiers on their return visit to the scene to film an reenactment with an 8mm camera were he had killed the VC soldier behind a hooch.

Can we prove any of the above? I think we can because in that same 2001 interview with CNN's Jonathan Karl there was this exchange:

KARL: And you still have the rocket launcher?

KERRY: I do have the rocket, yes, I do have the rocket. One of the SEALs disarmed it for me, and I brought it home.

Ask Senator Kerry to immediately produce the B-40 launcher he says he has at home before the media, and perhaps asked to explain how he was able to get such an prohibited item through military customs in Vietnam. The Military was very strict with inspections and with what you could return home with.


Here is the entire thread
Where Credit is due


Edited, Sun Jun 6 14:07:51 2004 by Stok

Edited, Sun Jun 6 14:06:43 2004 by Stok
#2 Jun 06 2004 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Where did you find this? Post the link. Give credit to the author.
#3 Jun 06 2004 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
Next time say please ;)
#4 Jun 06 2004 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"


Couldn't you find something, I don't know, I little more conservative? The articale isn't leaning far enough to the right for it to have been posted by you. I mean it doesn't have Kerry *** raping any 10 year old gooks or burning american flags while screaming "Down with democracy!"

Edited, Sun Jun 6 15:54:26 2004 by GitSlayer
#5 Jun 06 2004 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
Is this more acceptable

Remember to stay close to the middle, your feelings might get hurt if you actually took a stand for something you believe in and posted a view point that is not controversial.
#6 Jun 06 2004 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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About the whole medal thing, who cares if i had to get on the moral teeter~totter between goofing up on story or starting a war in violation of international law and convention on false intelligence which has resulted in anywhere from 5,000-10,000 Civilian casualties, who do you think is gonna be up in the air Kerry or Bush?

Edited, Sun Jun 6 16:05:20 2004 by bhodisattva
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#7 Jun 06 2004 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I am not exactly pro kerry <being english> but even i managed to pick a good few holes in that Stok
Quote:
The VC did not have a loaded B-40 because it was already discharged when he fired at Kerry swift boat and missed.
Um reload? i am pretty sure if i had a RPG i wouldn't limit my self to 1 round and if i missed i would be pretty motivated to reload as fast as i could.
Quote:
Amazing how willing and quickly they came together to defend Kerry that day
Who wouldn't be quick to support a senator <and the person who saved your life in some cases>?
Quote:
KARL: And you still have the rocket launcher?

KERRY: I do have the rocket, yes, I do have the rocket. One of the SEALs disarmed it for me, and I brought it home.

Ask Senator Kerry to immediately produce the B-40 launcher he says he has at home before the media, and perhaps asked to explain how he was able to get such an prohibited item through military customs in Vietnam. The Military was very strict with inspections and with what you could return home with.
Yeah right, i know of at least 4 Royal Navy officer who have taken Disarmed 4.5 shells out of a naval base to have as a show piece in thier private homes.
#8 Jun 06 2004 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Calling it a "phony controversy" instigated by the Republican party, Kerry said


That about sums it up. There are only two people I know that are more left wing than me: Smash and a personal friend who thinks the Green Party is for wussys.

You go ahead and vote for the (rich mans version of the) draft dodger, I'll vote the guy who actually served. Not that I like Kerry all that much, but hes not Bush.
#9 Jun 06 2004 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
Lol, gotta love conjecture and smearing of the right in their further efforts of mudslinging, Funny thing is I have seen about 30 Bush adds attacking Kerry and 0 Kerry adds attacking Bush. It could be as simple as my state is so conservative that Kerry is trying to waste the little he has against Bush here though. But here is one for you with actual photocopies of Bush and Kerry's offical documents from the military.

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp
#10 Jun 06 2004 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
I'll vote the guy who actually served. Not that I like Kerry all that much, but hes not Bush.


Served all of 4 months in theater earning 3 purple hearts in short order to be eligible to be assigned elsewhere and lands a cushy job as an aide. Then left the Navy 6 months before his commitment was up. Oh, he served in combat no doubt and he has my respect for doing that, but he did not complete his obligation. He took advantage of the system just as GWB did. They both come from powerful families, yet supposedly Kerry is the poor man's friend. ----- OH PLEASE! This is as bad as Gore. Born and bread for politics.
#11 Jun 06 2004 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Here is the entire thread
Where Credit is due


I read the whole thread you linked to. The essay might have been decent if it was limited to the facts and not full of conjecture and assumptions on the part of the author.

The only thing funnier than it were the responses by the other posters.





Edited, Sun Jun 6 17:15:56 2004 by trickybeck
#12 Jun 06 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
#13 Jun 06 2004 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Kerry earned his Silver Star on 28 February 1969, when he beached his craft and jumped off it with an M-16 rifle in hand to chase and shoot a guerrilla who was running into position to launch a B-40 rocket at Kerry's boat. Contrary to the account quoted above, Kerry did not shoot a "Charlie" who had "fired at the boat and missed," whose "rocket launcher was empty," and who was "already dead or dying" after being "knocked down with a .50 caliber round." Kerry's boat had been hit by a rocket fired by someone else — the guerrilla in question was still armed with a live B-40 and had only been clipped in the leg; when the guerrilla got up to run, Kerry assumed he was getting into position to launch a rocket and shot him



Is that enought for you to at least believe the possibility that Kerry's awards were all legit?

I doubt it, so just keep raving away.

Edited, Sun Jun 6 17:43:52 2004 by Deathwysh
#14 Jun 06 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
(2) Three Purple Hearts, but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

This is the kind of conjecture I'm talking about. He had no limp, so of course he faked his injuries. Sure...



edit: Well I scrolled down and realized the above quote was from the article Snopes was disproving. So yes, I did enjoy it. Smiley: wink2




Edited, Sun Jun 6 17:59:03 2004 by trickybeck
#15 Jun 06 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
You know, I can believe that the awards are legit, I can view them on line and see they must have followed the proper paper trail to be awarded to him.

Now lets see, can facts be distorted to make someones actions seem more heroic than they actually where? Of course they can just turn on any news show and you see that every day.

Kerry violated standard operating procedures by beaching his craft - should have had at least been reprimanded in writing for this action and no award.

Kerry shot and killed a wounded enemy soldier that was "running away" behind the hooch, he could have been court martialed. Still not an action where he should have recieved the Silver Star.

But you know what GWB put in more time than was required for his unit prior to his supposed "AWOL" period, and even then met his commitment for points during that time frame. Is that enough to make you realize he served his country in a manner acceptible to the US Government at the time and did not go awol?

There's not much discussion from your side on these issues. He should have been court martialed for not following standard operating procedures and killing a wounded enemy soldier behind a hooch that could have posed a threat for which he could have been court martialed but instead was awarded the Silver Star. Hmmmm - Honorable Service to his country? Sounds more like a hot tempered young luitenant who showed no regard for following orders and took matters into his own hands and then used the system to leave Viet Nam early, become an aide and then leave service six months early to run for political office that he lost. After doing that he helps form a political action group that speaks against the soldiers fighting in the war in Nam. Oh yeah he sure sounds like the kind of guy I want leading our country as my friends and sons of friends are fighting for a cause that the US Congress and President sent them off to fight for.

Hey, I'm like that you know... looking at all the facts before making a decision instead of listening to 30 second sound bites or Smasharoo to tell me what to think.

:)

#16 Jun 06 2004 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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/yawn

You are bought and paid for by the GOP quit trying to fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

Just so you know: You arn't required to become a Republican when you get your own business.
#17 Jun 06 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Kerry shot and killed a wounded enemy soldier


Quote:
But you know what GWB put in more time than was required for his unit


So Kerry kills guy and GWB is nancy lad that is brown nosing with extra work that really isnt work.

Score one for Kerry.

But really if i was Kerry i would have shot guy, lets look at it Vietnam was ugly people dying and such, im out on patrol on my boat just cruising around and all of a sudden some guy ive never met before starts shooting at me with RPG im like WTF, guy that shoots at me gets shot in the leg, the guy reloads and then starts hustling it, is he running away, is he running for cover, is he just getting better position to shoot at me, are there more of them?

I'm thinking all crazy because my fine day has been ruined by some guy shooting a rocket propelled explosive device at me and im more than a little scared for my life so i shoot the guy before he shoots back at me. Thats what war is about, you dont get to call a time out.

The guy didnt Surrender he was retreating. I dont remember american troops deciding it was immoral and bad to bomb the ***** out of Iraq forces in 1st Gulfwar when they were retreating back into Iraq. Even after they were in Iraq.

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#18 Jun 06 2004 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Kerry's commanding officer didn't think either beaching the craft or shooting the guy was worth a court martial and I'm sure he was more in tune with the situation than you were. If you have a problem with Kerry not getting thrown in the clink or whatever, take it up with George Elliott.

Quote:
I was doing research to figure out who John Kerry really is
ROFL -- Yeah, sure you were. You mean you were looking for right wing stuff to blather on about? Gee, I bet you were right on the cusp of voting for Kerry until this Silver Star thing threw you off.

Next you should link to some images of Kerry standing near Jane Fonda. That'll swing the vote! Smiley: lol

Edit: Re-reading, this is stupider than I thought. It basicly boils down to one right-wing author's conjecture and conspiracy theories. Even his "evidence" of Zumwalt talking to Glen Johnson isn't backed up with any actual quotes or published articles, just his own impressions of it.

Edited, Sun Jun 6 19:42:45 2004 by Jophiel
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#19 Jun 06 2004 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
Hey Jophiel, click here. Smiley: grin
#20 Jun 06 2004 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The B-40 bazooka rocket launcher seen here: http://c22inf.bravepages.com/richardson5.jpg

was essentially a long launch tube, with a rocket projectile shoved in the front. The tube itself was only good for maybe 10 or so launches before it would begin to warp. A loaded one has a big thingy in the front, an unloaded one does not. Reloading is as simple as plugging the mushroom shaped thingy in, setting the trigger, and fireing. loaded or unloaded would have been fairly obvious. Were it unloaded, or not being in the process of being loaded, I would imagine kerry would have just capped him from the boat rather than risking going after him.

I don't particularily like kerry as a candidate myself, but give the man credit if it is due. There is a posthumus silver star in my family, so on the one hand I can see being annoyed if someone were to cheapen what it stands for by getting it under sketchy circumstances, but attacking the guy because he is running for president on that issue, while typical, shouldnt be done. What matters is his stands on issues today, not the location of a thingy that may or may not have been inside a tube.
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#21 Jun 07 2004 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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There's not much discussion from your side on these issues. He should have been court martialed for not following standard operating procedures and killing a wounded enemy soldier behind a hooch that could have posed a threat for which he could have been court martialed but instead was awarded the Silver Star.

Courtmarsheled under what? The Un-Uniform IMaginary Stok Rules of Political Hackery?


Quote:

Hmmmm - Honorable Service to his country? Sounds more like a hot tempered young luitenant who showed no regard for following orders and took matters into his own hands and then used the system to leave Viet Nam early, become an aide and then leave service six months early to run for political office that he lost. After doing that he helps form a political action group that speaks against the soldiers fighting in the war in Nam. Oh yeah he sure sounds like the kind of guy I want leading our country as my friends and sons of friends are fighting for a cause that the US Congress and President sent them off to fight for.

Sounds exactly like the guy I want running my country if my son is fighting for it.

Who would you rather have make the decsions to sned your son to risk his life, the combat Vet who's killed and seen death and all the chaos that is war, or the rich boy who used his connections to avoid fighting?

It's impossible to make the argument that Bush would be a better steward of the US military based on the two mens experiences. Impossible.

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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#22 Jun 07 2004 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good
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Hey, I'm like that you know... looking at all the facts before making a decision instead of listening to 30 second sound bites or Smasharoo to tell me what to think.

:)

That'd be great were it true, but anyone who equates GWB's servgice with Kerry's obviously started with the decision and worked backwards, desperately trying to cobble together select facts that appear to support that decision. In your case, even that fails.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#23 Jun 07 2004 at 7:41 AM Rating: Default
stok.

BAM
#24 Jun 07 2004 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
A bit off topic here, but has there ever been a proven correlation between a President's war record and his actual performance as President?

I think the whole point of showing service is to show a record of serving one's country, not necessarily chalking up a body count or a uniform covered with medals.

Personally, I want my President to do things to keep me safe and free. Toss in a good economy and I'm pretty satisified. Satisifed enough to go find something else to ***** about, anyway. Smiley: grin
#25 Jun 07 2004 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Courtmarsheled under what? The Un-Uniform IMaginary Stok Rules of Political Hackery?


Nah, just the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You know the one I'm talking about and you also know that the officer corps is political and they watch out for each other.

Having not been there I will state once again that Kerry obviously deserved the award because he recieved it. I mean there is no such thing as inflating reality on paper to justify the ends.
#26 Jun 07 2004 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
Lol, and you really want to compare Bush to Kerry in terms of military record you and Gbaji should share a room.
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