The price of macho Patriotism.Follow

To me its more personal, he went to my college, he was a walk on our football team, ended up being an all-american and Pac-10 defensive player of the year his last year in school, his stats 6' 210 lbs and he played middle linebacker. He was part of the team that damn near ranked number 1 in the nation, minus a prevent defense in the Rose Bowl vs Ohio State.

He was picked in the last round by the Phoenix Cardinals and was good enough that when he became a free agent the prior years Super Bowl Champs offered him 9 million to come play for them. He passed staying with the Cardinals for being the only team to take a chance on him.

9/11 happened, he turned down 3.6 million dollars from the Cardinals and joined the army. No press conference, no hoopla, he just became a soilder. Yes he did his duty and volunteered for service, so many who have so much avoid service or hide in the national guard, he chose not to, based on his record he would probably be embarressed that this has affected his fans this much. Its the top story on all our local news channels. Many of you will define hero how you will to me Pat Tillman was a hero.

Because a good man did something. You never will understand.

So what ou're saying is there's no such a thing as heroes because you have no moral compass. I suppose we should let men like Hitler roam free because they are people with human rights too. After all if there are no heroes there are no villains. The problem with grey areas is they tend to turn black when cast in the light.

WTF?

I was going to say something, but then I reread the post and it made my head hurt. Then I read it a third time and it made me laugh. I was afraid to read it a fourth time, because I thought the laughing might be an indication that I was becoming as retarded as Lefein.

"Hitler"... hehehe

On the contrary, Lefein, I think Smasharoo understands perfectly. The issue is the definition of hero, where it has become popular to label anyone who goes out and does his duty as being heroic out of a genuine desire to ennoble that person's death with significance.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not trivializing any soldier's death, but attempting to place it into the context where those who remain behind or survive are doing what they believe is expected of them: Expressing gratitude for a sacrifice they themselves were not required to give. The core issue is not heroism, but significance. We as a nation wish to place great significance on tragedy so as to give it meaning. You can see this in discussions such as "where were you when such-and-such happened?" However, and I would agree with this, the mass sentimentalism of anything, be that soldier's deaths, Princess Diana's death, etc, smacks of a populace which innoculates itself against real tragedy by vicariously experiencing pain in small doses.

When Tillman's death results in a greater urgency to capture or kill bin Laden or in practical and concrete instances of people engaging in service to others then his death will gain significance. And this is what he did-- he saw that his life was lacking substance post 9/11 and decided to do something about it: He enlisted. He wanted to pay a debt to his country by serving in its' military. That is significant. That gives his death meaning.

Does that make it any clearer?

Totem

Why dont you tell me how retarded I am then?

Look if the guy called himself a hero that would be one thing. The guy lived an exemplary life. Noone really has anything bad to say about him and he laid down his life in the service of his country. If he wanted to seek a political career or something self serving like that Im sure there are hundreds of other jobs he could have taken in the service than an Army Ranger. People call him a hero because they look up to him. He lived a life that people can look up to and he ended it with good deeds. He is being judged by the merit of his actions as we speak on national TV and radio. It's overwhelmingly positive. I for one believe that anyone willing to lay down their life to defend us has a hero inside of them. That is what this whole thing is about. We treat our athletes like gods. Instead he chose the sands of Afghanistan as his grave because he beleived in what he was doing. I do believe a lot of people are grateful for his sacrifice. It exemplifies what all the men and women in our military are doing over there. To all of you that serve or have served I thank you.
I apologize for insinuating you had no moral compass by the way. When you said that there are only people that do things that we like and dislike.... It sounded proposterous. Terrorists need to be dealt with and those fighting them deserve all our love and support. It is very black and white what we are doing. Afghanistan was a monument to everything that can go wrong with this world. At least people are willing to do something about it.

Well, duh. Because people like you wanted to let them roam free. Friggin' hippie.

Hmmm, does this belong in a different thread?



In my mind he was a hero when he arrived in Afghanistan and went willingly into combat, to protect the people of America.



And my wife has a great ***, so what's the point? (Tare, you stay out of this, I said that for impact)



I think you are forgetting my modifier.





Really, so what does moral mean???? I must have just made up a new word. I think a good man is one that makes "moral" decisions. Crap there is that word again. I am beginning to think you are a bit of a pessimist smash?

And I am not saying he is not a hero. His actions certainly speak well of him, especially considering what kind of life he left behind and his subsequent dedication to the Army. What I (and probably Smash if I was hearing him correctly) was attempting to make clear is the trivialization of the term hero and what actions it takes to become one. That's all.

We know this: Tillman died in an ambush as an Airborne Ranger in Afganistan. We have had a glimpse into his motivations for doing what he did. We know what kind of life he could have led and what he chose to do.

I appreciate his sacrifice. I believe his actions-- particularly in light of his other options-- are a credit to his character, his family, and his value system. For that and what he did he is heroic by the standard bandied about today. Only time will tell if the circumstances surrounding his death results in recognition of any particular heroic behavior, ie. CMoH, SS, BS behavior, whatever. Then we will know that his death was heroic.

Totem

Ok, enough of this, he seems to have been a good guy and everyone here is saddened by his death.

Hey, Totem, do you think I can become a HERO of the Soviet Union? Do they still have that sort of thing over there do you think?

I think the difference of opinion probably stems from the fact that you 2 guys (Smash and Totem)have already served time in the military and been involved in some sort of action, I think you are trivializing your own effort because you truely believe that what you did was no big deal. Well, your wrong. I don't think it is that hard to be a hero. It's just that few people are willing to give up there happy cushy little lives, I know I'm not. I don't nessesarily mean dying either, simply going to fight, you are giving a piece of your life away. Where the end reward, will be realized by others.