http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040423/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_afghan_nfl_player
Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan (news - web sites) after walking away from an NFL career to join the Army Rangers, U.S. officials said Friday.
Poor *******. It's a tragedy that he died, and a smaller tragedy that I'll probably have to see 97 tributes to him while watching the World Champion Patriots win back to back super bowls.
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Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
He probably figured all he had to do was endure corn bread for a couple of years, get 20 or so medals for getting up in a morning. Then he could start his political career as an ex NFL star turned military hero.
Hell he would have been the new GWB by the time he was 50.
It may have backfired.
Hell he would have been the new GWB by the time he was 50.
It may have backfired.
Tarv, you apparently haven't heard about this man's strength of character, then, have you? "Political viability" was not in this man's lexicon.*
Totem
*I assume you know who I am refering to.
Totem
*I assume you know who I am refering to.
If this guy had been in it for the prestige, he would have done dozens of interviews. I've never seen him do a single interview.
Whether you agree with the war or not, this guys convictions shouldn't be called into question. Then again, his death should be treated no differently than the hundreds of others...
Grady
Whether you agree with the war or not, this guys convictions shouldn't be called into question. Then again, his death should be treated no differently than the hundreds of others...
Grady
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
I pretty much agree with Grady. I've no idea what the guy's motivations were so I won't belittle his choice to enlist.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
He was a hero, I met him once at a restaurant I worked at.
They are all hero's, I think that is the point here.
Can't remember the movie(I think it was Braveheart, maybe Gladiator), but
"Does a poor man give up any less on the battle field?"
Can't remember the movie(I think it was Braveheart, maybe Gladiator), but
"Does a poor man give up any less on the battle field?"
The term "hero" is not meant to be used as a sweeping generalization. Liberal use of the word merely cheapens the meaning.
No, they're not all heroes. They're all soldiers doing their sword duty. Some may be heroes.
No, they're not all heroes. They're all soldiers doing their sword duty. Some may be heroes.
If he (they) had been pulled out when they should have been, he would still be alive. Assuming the reason for starting the war in the first place was legit, keeping soldiers there now is only putting off the inevitable. When we finally do leave, the same civil war and struggle for power will take place that would have already been going on had we not stayed.
This may not be exactly like Vietnam, but it certainly has it's similarities.
This may not be exactly like Vietnam, but it certainly has it's similarities.
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The term "hero" is not meant to be used as a sweeping generalization. Liberal use of the word merely cheapens the meaning.
No, they're not all heroes. They're all soldiers doing their sword duty. Some may be heroes.
No, they're not all heroes. They're all soldiers doing their sword duty. Some may be heroes.
If you give your life for me, I will always consider you a hero. There is nothing cheap about that.
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If he (they) had been pulled out when they should have been, he would still be alive. Assuming the reason for starting the war in the first place was legit, keeping soldiers there now is only putting off the inevitable.
One, he died in Afganistan.
Two, he was a ranger. I feel worse when some poor ******* MP who joined the National Guard dies than when a light infantry guy dies. Rangers *want* to skirmish that's why they become Rangers.
They're not all heros, but all of their deaths are tragadies. Saying stupid foolish things like "they're all heros" cheapens the sacrafices of the true heros. Some of them are **** ups who make a mistake and die for it. Some of them kill people with freindly fire. Some of them rape children.
They're not all heros, they're just people.
Edited, Fri Apr 23 18:17:22 2004 by Smasharoo
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
^^^^^
Truth.
Totem
Edit: This edit is in regards to Smash's original post which did not include that last paragraph.
Edited, Fri Apr 23 18:23:21 2004 by Totem
Truth.
Totem
Edit: This edit is in regards to Smash's original post which did not include that last paragraph.
Edited, Fri Apr 23 18:23:21 2004 by Totem
Yea well I missed the Afghanistan part. The rest is still true, it just doesn't fit with this thread =p
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They're not all heros, but all of their deaths are tragadies. Saying stupid foolish things like "they're all heros" cheapens the sacrafices of the true heros. Some of them are @#%^ ups who make a mistake and die for it. Some of them kill people with freindly fire. Some of them rape children.
Lets leave the pedophile rapists out of this, as that is an extreme case. So just because poor Johnny is a bit of an idiot and a fwck-up, does this automatically negate his ability to be a hero?? What prerequisites are there for being a hero? If I kill someone with friendly fire ( accident) then I can no longer be a hero. I try my hardest to the best of my ability, and just because I make a mistake when the bullets are whizzing by my head, and now I no longer qualify to be a hero. What exactly do you think the criteria is to become a hero? Is it based on success? Will? Demeanor? Intelligence? What exactly is it? I think anyone that unselfishly pays the ultimate sacrifice, on behalf of another person, should be considered a hero.
If a cougar attacks a mother and a daughter in the woods, and the mother goes and fights the cougar giving the daughter time to get away. The mother pays for the life of her daughter with her own. Is she a hero for this act? What if after killing the mother, the cougar tracks down and kills the daughter as well, does this negate her heroism?
I can't see how giving everything you have, and everything you are ever going to have, is not enough for you to qualify fo you to be a hero. The rest is based on skill and intelligence, and I don't think these are prerequisites to being a hero.
Tell the mother of the dead fwck-up, that her son is not a hero.
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Lets leave the pedophile rapists out of this, as that is an extreme case.
Not really. There's a lot of child rapists in the Army. One of the "Blackhawk Down" guys was a child rapist.
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So just because poor Johnny is a bit of an idiot and a fwck-up, does this automatically negate his ability to be a hero??
Of course not. But if he's a bit of an idiot and falls down a well breaking his kneck and dying is he a hero?
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What prerequisites are there for being a hero?
Doing something heroic? Hence the term.
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If I kill someone with friendly fire ( accident) then I can no longer be a hero. I try my hardest to the best of my ability, and just because I make a mistake when the bullets are whizzing by my head, and now I no longer qualify to be a hero.
Yes, that's correct. If you kill someone who's on the same side as you by mistake you're not a hero. If you do it on purpose you'll be courtmarshled.
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What exactly do you think the criteria is to become a hero? Is it based on success? Will? Demeanor? Intelligence? What exactly is it?
Valor mostly. In my oppinion if you don't win a Bronze Star or higher commendation you're very likely not a hero. Sorry. I was in Gulf 1. I've been shot at before in other places. I'm not a hero. I'm just some guy who was working for the government. Are you a hero if you push a pen at the Pentagon? Why not?
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I think anyone that unselfishly pays the ultimate sacrifice, on behalf of another person, should be considered a hero.
Yeah, that whole "Death is inherantly noble" stuff is ********* Soldiers will tell you it's ******** too. They don't revere people hwo die because they were idiots. I once overheard a D-boy tell someone that being under fire was a good process for weeding out the people that were more likely to get him killed some day.
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If a cougar attacks a mother and a daughter in the woods, and the mother goes and fights the cougar giving the daughter time to get away. The mother pays for the life of her daughter with her own. Is she a hero for this act?
Sure.
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What if after killing the mother, the cougar tracks down and kills the daughter as well, does this negate her heroism?
Nope. It's also not a metaphor for someone who dies because they fall out of a helicopter.
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I can't see how giving everything you have, and everything you are ever going to have, is not enough for you to qualify fo you to be a hero. The rest is based on skill and intelligence, and I don't think these are prerequisites to being a hero.
They're not, but dying is easy, being a hero is hard.
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Tell the mother of the dead fwck-up, that her son is not a hero
I wouldn't have to, she'd know. Look there's a diffrence between it being a tragedy that people die, which it allways is and them being heros for dying.
Tell the mother of the dead soldier who wins the CMH post-h that her son's sacrafice is equal to that of someone who dies of a heart attack while in combat.
Let me know how that goes.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Reinman wrote:
What exactly do you think the criteria is to become a hero? Is it based on success? Will? Demeanor? Intelligence? What exactly is it? I think anyone that unselfishly pays the ultimate sacrifice, on behalf of another person, should be considered a hero.
I think that the person's intent plays the largest part in determining if they are a hero. The mother, in your example, would be a hero because her intention was to allow her child to escape. Success or failure does not change why she attempted the action. The same then would apply to soldiers in battle. Being shot because you did not see the man moving up on your left does not make you a hero. Jumping on a grenade that landed next to your buddy does.
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Then find someone that life has given vodka and have party.
This establishment does not serve women. You must bring your own.
This establishment does not serve women. You must bring your own.
No one is a hero because they go to war and get themselves killed. Hero sure got a new definition they are.
He joined the armed forces with full knowledge of the implications. He should have been prepared to die, and his family should have known it was a very real possibility (talking about everyone in the service). If they didn't, that's their problem. No one forces you to fight (yet).
He joined the armed forces with full knowledge of the implications. He should have been prepared to die, and his family should have known it was a very real possibility (talking about everyone in the service). If they didn't, that's their problem. No one forces you to fight (yet).
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Tell the mother of the dead soldier who wins the CMH post-h that her son's sacrafice is equal to that of someone who dies of a heart attack while in combat.
He may have had the heart attack anyway, we can't prove that it had anything to do with him putting himself in harms way, and for the benefit of others.
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Doing something heroic? Hence the term.
Going half way around the world and facing the enemy of the free world. Is this not an act? I am not speaking of Iraq, just in general.
Anyway, I think we need to agree to disagree here, by the way, if you were in Gulf 1, and you honestly believed that you were fighting for the security of the rest of us, then I consider you a hero as well, even without paying the ultimate sacrifice.
I suppose there is something to that, why are you in in the war? Are you there for the common man back in the US, or is it because it is the only way to legally kill people, which you happen to get of on. I will add that modifier to my original position. Does that work for you?
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He may have had the heart attack anyway, we can't prove that it had anything to do with him putting himself in harms way, and for the benefit of others.
I didn't benefit at all from him dying or him losing his bowels off in some desert country.
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Going half way around the world and facing the enemy of the free world. Is this not an act? I am not speaking of Iraq, just in general.
Sure it's an act. Not of heroism though.
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Anyway, I think we need to agree to disagree here, by the way, if you were in Gulf 1, and you honestly believed that you were fighting for the security of the rest of us, then I consider you a hero as well, even without paying the ultimate sacrifice.
I honestly beleived I was fighting for the freedom of Kuwait... I'm not a hero. I sat in an air conditioned room the vast majority of the time.
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I suppose there is something to that, why are you in in the war? Are you there for the common man back in the US, or is it because it is the only way to legally kill people, which you happen to get of on.
Come on now, most actual Heros get off on killing people. Who do you think the "elite" units of the military are geared towards attracting, the people who like to have a beer and watch TV?
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I will add that modifier to my original position. Does that work for you?
Whatever. We can agree do disagree, I just think it cheapens genuine acts of heroism if you declare everyone a hero. You're talking about men and women that are in a combat situation where they have an overwhelming technical and training advantage. On the order of Mike Tyson fighting a five year old girl and he has a machete.
Just showing up doesn't make you a hero. This guy in Afganistan, maybe he was a hero, who knows. Maybe he shot himself by mistake. It's hard to say without knowing more about what happened.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
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Come on now, most actual Heros get off on killing people.
I wouldn't call these people heros. They are doing what they are doing for selfish reasons. I would call them criminals, thank god for the armed forces or these people would have to resort to killing on the street, rememeber those 2 guys in florida.
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I honestly beleived I was fighting for the freedom of Kuwait... I'm not a hero.
Oh yes you are! You went and put your life on the line, for a cause that you believed in, that is heroic. They always told me true heros are humble. "Oh, I am not a hero." That's exactly what a hero would say.
Edited, Fri Apr 23 20:42:27 2004 by Reinman
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Oh yes you are! You went and put your life on the line, for a cause that you believed in, that is heroic. They always told me true heros are humble. "Oh, I am not a hero." That's exactly what a hero would say.
That's flattering, but Totem is more likely an honest to goodness hero than me almost for certain. I would have done my job from DC if there was enough stalite time to go around.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
What did totem do? Are you a hero totem?
All that is necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke
- Edmund Burke
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All that is necessary for the triumph of Evil is for good men to do nothing.
- Edmund Burke
Morons who post random quotations that don't apply to the topic at hand should be analy raped with a mayonaise covered baseball bat.
--Smasharoo
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
I did my duty, nothing more, nothing less.
Totem
Totem
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