http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001909527_coffin22m.html
A military contractor has fired Tami Silicio, a Kuwait-based cargo worker whose photograph of flag-draped coffins of fallen U.S. soldiers was published in Sunday's edition of The Seattle Times.
...
"It kind of helps me to know what these mothers are going through, and I try to watch over their children as they head home," she said in an earlier interview.
Since Sunday, Silicio has hunkered down in Kuwait as her employer and the military decided her fate.
Maytag's Silva said the decision to terminate Silicio's and Landry's employment was made by the company. But he said the U.S. military had identified "very specific concerns" about their actions. Silva declined to detail those concerns.
"They were good workers, and we were sorry to lose them," Silva said. "They did a good job out in Kuwait and it was an important job that they did."
Can't have American's seeing flag draped corpses, now can we, they might think people are dying or something.
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- Freedom of the Press. Unless it hurts our poll numbers.
Freedom of the Press. Unless it hurts our poll numbers.Follow
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
That's retarded. There was nothing wrong with that photo.
Don't people realize that trying to squash publicity only begets more (and more negative) publicity?
Don't people realize that trying to squash publicity only begets more (and more negative) publicity?
Pictures like that will encite unrest and discontentment. Eventually, people will be demanding that america pull out, which would be an even worse decision than going in there in the first place. Doesn't america have enough problems right now? I agree with Maytag's standpoint, this should not be tolerated.
Ask yourself, would you take that picture and send it to the press, knowing that it will only have the effect of further demoralizing the country???? Do you really think the families of the Dead servicemen really give a **** about how orderly their coffins were placed into the cargo plane.
She is an idiot and deserves the sacking that she got.
Ask yourself, would you take that picture and send it to the press, knowing that it will only have the effect of further demoralizing the country???? Do you really think the families of the Dead servicemen really give a **** about how orderly their coffins were placed into the cargo plane.
She is an idiot and deserves the sacking that she got.
I've figured it out. Smash is definitlyDennis from Monty Python and the holy grail...
Quote:
Ask yourself, would you take that picture and send it to the press, knowing that it will only have the effect of further demoralizing the country????
If I could I'd start the evening new on every channel every night with unedited video of every injury and death in Iraq.
If seeing evidence of death "demoralizes" the country, but the actual deaths don't there really aren't many morals to loose, now are there?
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Was Dennis the guy in the pasture playing with mud challenging the right of Arthur's claim of kingship?
edit: As to the original topic, while I think it's bad policy for us to keep such a block on media coming from conflicts, I'm sure the woman knew that "no photos" was a condition of her employment. It was a calculated risk she decided to take.
I also think it was a very good photograph.
Edited, Thu Apr 22 18:47:46 2004 by Yanari
edit: As to the original topic, while I think it's bad policy for us to keep such a block on media coming from conflicts, I'm sure the woman knew that "no photos" was a condition of her employment. It was a calculated risk she decided to take.
I also think it was a very good photograph.
Edited, Thu Apr 22 18:47:46 2004 by Yanari
I'd prefer you call me "old woman".
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
Was Dennis the guy in the pasture playing with mud challenging the right of Arthur's claim of kingship?
Indeed.
You can't go around choosing leaders of free nations just because some aquatic ***** throws a nife at them.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
/shrug Aside from pointing out a regulation that people may or may not agree with, this really isn't an issue of freedom of the press.
Freedom of the press means that the government cannot prevent you from printing what you want (within reason). Despite the inflamatory nature of the topic name, that has not happened here. You'll note that the government did not shut down the presses at the Times and prevent them from printing their story (with the picture).
The woman is being fired because she violated a regulation upon which her job was contingent. You can agree or disagree with the regulation, but it is in effect and has been for more then a decade. Are we supposed to just randomly decide to follow or not follow rules as we see fit? She knew what she was doing was against the rules. She did it anyway. Um... That's the kind of thing that does get people fired.
Police departments have regulations that prevent their investigators from releasing crime scene photos to the press. Is that a violation of the 1st amendment? Not at all. And it's done for the exact same reason why the military doesn't allow the folks handling the coffins of servicement to take pictures and give those to the press. This is not new. To imply this is some kind of violation of freedom of the press is quite a bit of a stretch.
But hey. When you don't have the truth, rhetoric will do.
Freedom of the press means that the government cannot prevent you from printing what you want (within reason). Despite the inflamatory nature of the topic name, that has not happened here. You'll note that the government did not shut down the presses at the Times and prevent them from printing their story (with the picture).
The woman is being fired because she violated a regulation upon which her job was contingent. You can agree or disagree with the regulation, but it is in effect and has been for more then a decade. Are we supposed to just randomly decide to follow or not follow rules as we see fit? She knew what she was doing was against the rules. She did it anyway. Um... That's the kind of thing that does get people fired.
Police departments have regulations that prevent their investigators from releasing crime scene photos to the press. Is that a violation of the 1st amendment? Not at all. And it's done for the exact same reason why the military doesn't allow the folks handling the coffins of servicement to take pictures and give those to the press. This is not new. To imply this is some kind of violation of freedom of the press is quite a bit of a stretch.
But hey. When you don't have the truth, rhetoric will do.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
/yawn.
If Gabji's post was unclear in any way please refer to www.whitehouse.gov for further clarification.
If Gabji's post was unclear in any way please refer to www.whitehouse.gov for further clarification.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
If I could I'd start the evening new on every channel every night with unedited video of every injury and death in Iraq.
And this would be constructive because...???
Judging from this, I would guess that you want the american government to be forced into pulling out of Iraq ASAP?
Is this a good idea?
Smasharoo wrote:
Quote:
Ask yourself, would you take that picture and send it to the press, knowing that it will only have the effect of further demoralizing the country????
If I could I'd start the evening new on every channel every night with unedited video of every injury and death in Iraq.
Which nicely explains exactly why we have those regulations Smash.
The public operates by mob rule. We don't release crime scene photos because it will cause the public to try the case without the benefit of all the evidence (or a trial!). Same issue here. You, and people like you, will use the most gruesome tactics possible to sway public opinion.
Publishing pictures like that encourages the mob to make a decision based solely on those types of pictures. You end up with policies made by knee-jerk reaction. Our leaders lose the ability to lead. While someone like you may like that, we'd end up with a government incapable of doing anything if that were the norm.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Smasharoo wrote:
/yikkes
Gabji's post utterly demolishes my position. I have nothing to refute him with, so I'll just pretend he's not there. Maybe he'll go away...
Gabji's post utterly demolishes my position. I have nothing to refute him with, so I'll just pretend he's not there. Maybe he'll go away...
Fixed that for ya Smash...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Quote:
And this would be constructive because...???
It would be constructive because it would make clear the cost for the fools errend we're on in Iraq.
Quote:
Judging from this, I would guess that you want the american government to be forced into pulling out of Iraq ASAP?
Judging from this, you're an idiot who leaps to conclusions for no good reason. Well done.
Quote:
Is this a good idea?
People being informed is a great idea. It's allegedly what Democracy is all about, right? Or is it about the ilusions of being informed? The illusion of freedom?
"Sure you can print whatever you want, but unless you're in or working for the military you can't get near a coffin. If you're in or working for the military you can't take a picture, it's against regulations. Publish as many pictures as you'd like, though."
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Gabji, I don't know how many times I have to post this, but it's utterly pointless for you to post anything regarding the war or issues surrounding it. For a couple of reasons.
1. You're completely uninformed about it.
2. You have no position. You unerringly parrot the Party line of the Bush administration on every single minute point never differing with them, ever.
3. You add nothing to the debate. At all. I'm fairly certain that everyone's aware of the official party line on Iraq.
4. You offer nothing. No solution, no suggestions, nothing at all. Your oppinion is "trust the government, everything wil be fine"
5. You're a partisan hack of the highest order. You argue points that even the most dedicated Bush supporters gave up on months ago. You don't even keep up with where the consensus of your own pary is on the issue, you just parrot what you see on the news fro the White House.
For those reasons I'll continue to ignore your posts because there's nothing gained by anyone by me responding to them. If people are guliable enough to be on board with the way this war is being run at this point they're likely not going to get through the first sentace of my posts. If they can think on their own they're going to see your transparently ludicrous arguments for what they are.
Go get your own issue. Be creative. Stop living off my posts for a while and see how it goes.
You're a big boy, you can do it.
1. You're completely uninformed about it.
2. You have no position. You unerringly parrot the Party line of the Bush administration on every single minute point never differing with them, ever.
3. You add nothing to the debate. At all. I'm fairly certain that everyone's aware of the official party line on Iraq.
4. You offer nothing. No solution, no suggestions, nothing at all. Your oppinion is "trust the government, everything wil be fine"
5. You're a partisan hack of the highest order. You argue points that even the most dedicated Bush supporters gave up on months ago. You don't even keep up with where the consensus of your own pary is on the issue, you just parrot what you see on the news fro the White House.
For those reasons I'll continue to ignore your posts because there's nothing gained by anyone by me responding to them. If people are guliable enough to be on board with the way this war is being run at this point they're likely not going to get through the first sentace of my posts. If they can think on their own they're going to see your transparently ludicrous arguments for what they are.
Go get your own issue. Be creative. Stop living off my posts for a while and see how it goes.
You're a big boy, you can do it.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
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It would be constructive because it would make clear the cost for the fools errend we're on in Iraq.
Do we not already know???? Why don't we get photos of the bodies inside the coffins.
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Judging from this, I would guess that you want the american government to be forced into pulling out of Iraq ASAP?
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Judging from this, you're an idiot who leaps to conclusions for no good reason. Well done
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Judging from this, I would guess that you want the american government to be forced into pulling out of Iraq ASAP?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Judging from this, you're an idiot who leaps to conclusions for no good reason. Well done
I had actually given you credit for being able to put this one together for yourself, but if you wish me to spell it out for you, I will.
If you show dead people and bloodshed everynight on the TV, eventually people will be sick to their stomachs from it. They will then demand that the government stop it, so they can get on with their happy little lives. Do you disagree that this is what will happen?
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you're an idiot
...and you say I am the one jumping to conclusions!!!!! Idiot!!!!
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Do we not already know???? Why don't we get photos of the bodies inside the coffins.
Yes, I think that's a good idea. We have 39,000,000 photos of the victim every time anyone under the age of 18 is kidnapped or muredered, but if someones son or daughter gets his head blown off let's keep that quiet.
Quote:
I had actually given you credit for being able to put this one together for yourself, but if you wish me to spell it out for you, I will.
If you show dead people and bloodshed everynight on the TV, eventually people will be sick to their stomachs from it. They will then demand that the government stop it, so they can get on with their happy little lives. Do you disagree that this is what will happen?
I disagree that this is what will happen. I think people would view the war more somberly, particularly the armchair generals who have never served who wave the flag and call the casualties from Iraq isignifigant. I don't think there would suddenly be riots in the streets calling for a massive pull out.
Quote:
...and you say I am the one jumping to conclusions!!!!! Idiot!!!!
Just pointing out how unwise it can be to leap to conclusions. Clearly you're not an idiot, but with time...
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
We have 39,000,000 photos of the victim every time anyone under the age of 18 is kidnapped or muredered, but if someones son or daughter gets his head blown off let's keep that quiet.
Agreed!
Quote:
I disagree that this is what will happen. I think people would view the war more somberly, particularly the armchair generals who have never served who wave the flag and call the casualties from Iraq isignifigant. I don't think there would suddenly be riots in the streets calling for a massive pull out.
I am somewhat ignorant because I am not an american, so I do not really know how americans feel about the war. I am Canadian and I work with Brits. Of the people I talk to, all have agreed that the US has got itself into a terrible position. I did not realize that some people in the US still think there will be a victory at the end of all of this. I look at all further efforts as damage control on a monumental Fúck-up. So if there are people that think what is happening right now is ok, then yea, maybe they need to be informed.
Quote:
Clearly you're not an idiot
Oh yea baby, say it again. I love having the ego stroked.
Lol!
And yet, despite my supposed inability to discuss politics intelligently, you manage to be completely unable to respond to my arguments, resorting instead to sidetracking the issue.
Look. I don't post a lot of my own threads simply because it's a hell of a lot more fun for me to simply wait for you to post something stupid and tear it apart.
You are the one who's claiming this is a violation of Freedom of the Press (1st ammendment). Please prove this. If you can't, then you're just tossing more rhetoric out there Smash.
As long as you continue to post these innane, inflated, and horribly innacurate accusations at the current administration, I'll post replies that question your posts. And it's not about toeing the party line. I don't agree with a number of things that the Bush administration has done.
I'll tell you a secret Smash. The problem I have with you isn't what positions you take on issues. It's *why* you take them. It's the arguments you use, not what you are arguing for that I totally disagree with. I would think you would have figured that out by now. Apparently that is not the case...
And yet, despite my supposed inability to discuss politics intelligently, you manage to be completely unable to respond to my arguments, resorting instead to sidetracking the issue.
Look. I don't post a lot of my own threads simply because it's a hell of a lot more fun for me to simply wait for you to post something stupid and tear it apart.
You are the one who's claiming this is a violation of Freedom of the Press (1st ammendment). Please prove this. If you can't, then you're just tossing more rhetoric out there Smash.
As long as you continue to post these innane, inflated, and horribly innacurate accusations at the current administration, I'll post replies that question your posts. And it's not about toeing the party line. I don't agree with a number of things that the Bush administration has done.
I'll tell you a secret Smash. The problem I have with you isn't what positions you take on issues. It's *why* you take them. It's the arguments you use, not what you are arguing for that I totally disagree with. I would think you would have figured that out by now. Apparently that is not the case...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Quote:
I did not realize that some people in the US still think there will be a victory at the end of all of this.
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/19309.htm
Will give you some insight into the oppinions of the averag American.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Quote:
I did not realize that some people in the US still think there will be a victory at the end of all of this
Most people in the US think proof has been found linking Saddam to Al Queda.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Heaven forbid that people see the coffins. I mean, it's not like REAL people are dying over there.
The person in that coffin is someone's son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, lover... Killed for what, exactly? Protecting us from Saddam's WMD's? Hmmm... where are they again? Oh, wait... they're freeing the people of Iraq from a regime that killed hundreds of thousands. I'm betting we're stopping by the Sudan and Chad on the way back.. right? There's terrible slaughters there too. We must be.
The fact is that Bush has been working on a way to get back at Saddam and to help consolidate our waning power over the Middle East oil reserves. Any roadmap to peace has been completely destroyed by the ill will of our occupation and our siding with Israel. We have, and will ultimately, fail miserably in this endeavor. Not from lack of trying, not from lack of man or military power, and not from lack of sacrifice on our parts.
We'll fail because we lack understanding.
Our government doesn't understand the basic concept that we're absolutely reviled for good reason. We love to think that we're right, that our way is the way that everyone will agree with, and that freedom, free-market economies, and democracy are universally acceptable concepts. They're not.
You can't change someone's culture overnight, you can't change someone's perception of you by inflicting tyranny on them (which we are doing in the eyes of many Iraqi's and most Muslims in that part of the world), and you certainly can't make someone understand the concepts of freedom, free markets, and democracy when all they've known is the exact opposite.
We are the evil in their eyes... and I don't blame them a bit for seeing us that way. We're bringing change at gunpoint. We've been reinforcing their economic models in the past due to our embargos. We've taken everything from them and offered them a couple of vague concepts as a reasoning.
That's why we'll fail. That's why we couldn't have ever won.
Grady
The person in that coffin is someone's son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, lover... Killed for what, exactly? Protecting us from Saddam's WMD's? Hmmm... where are they again? Oh, wait... they're freeing the people of Iraq from a regime that killed hundreds of thousands. I'm betting we're stopping by the Sudan and Chad on the way back.. right? There's terrible slaughters there too. We must be.
The fact is that Bush has been working on a way to get back at Saddam and to help consolidate our waning power over the Middle East oil reserves. Any roadmap to peace has been completely destroyed by the ill will of our occupation and our siding with Israel. We have, and will ultimately, fail miserably in this endeavor. Not from lack of trying, not from lack of man or military power, and not from lack of sacrifice on our parts.
We'll fail because we lack understanding.
Our government doesn't understand the basic concept that we're absolutely reviled for good reason. We love to think that we're right, that our way is the way that everyone will agree with, and that freedom, free-market economies, and democracy are universally acceptable concepts. They're not.
You can't change someone's culture overnight, you can't change someone's perception of you by inflicting tyranny on them (which we are doing in the eyes of many Iraqi's and most Muslims in that part of the world), and you certainly can't make someone understand the concepts of freedom, free markets, and democracy when all they've known is the exact opposite.
We are the evil in their eyes... and I don't blame them a bit for seeing us that way. We're bringing change at gunpoint. We've been reinforcing their economic models in the past due to our embargos. We've taken everything from them and offered them a couple of vague concepts as a reasoning.
That's why we'll fail. That's why we couldn't have ever won.
Grady
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
Quote:
The Harris survey found that 45 percent of Americans - up from 37 percent in February - think the United States is "very likely" to get bogged down "for a long time" in Iraq.
I think this says it all, I would prefer this number to be in to 90-95% range. Out of the majority 55%, if you asked these people how the government is going to get out of this situation, I wonder what kind of answer you would get.
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We've taken everything from them and offered them a couple of vague concepts as a reasoning.
That's a bit strong, by my estimation. I don't really think they had anything to start with. Iraq still has the 3rd?? largest oil reserves in the world. They just don't have the facilities or people(education) to realize this potential. Is that the americans fault, not really. It is based on probably about a million factors, has the american government "played" the situation and taken advantage of them? I would say yes. Remember the arab population are at least as uninformed as the american public, and I would say alot more. There was a bus load of tourist killed in Cairo a few years back, german I believe. Do you know, that the general population were told that the Israeli secret service was responsible, and that they were trying to frame the muslim fundamentalist. More astounding is that the people believed it. So in all of this, there is no good side and no evil side, if anything, its closer to 2 evil sides driven by power and greed.
So how does everyone think the Blue Jays will do this year???
Reinman wrote:
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The Harris survey found that 45 percent of Americans - up from 37 percent in February - think the United States is "very likely" to get bogged down "for a long time" in Iraq.
I think this says it all, I would prefer this number to be in to 90-95% range. Out of the majority 55%, if you asked these people how the government is going to get out of this situation, I wonder what kind of answer you would get.
Heck. I'd prefer if the number was 100%. It would mean that the American population didn't believe that we could enact major political change in the middle east in a few weeks with zero casualties.
What part of Bush saying: "We're in this for the long haul", and "We have a long road ahead of us" did people not get? Why is anyone surprised that we're going to be in Iraq for quite some time?
Grady wrote:
We've taken everything from them and offered them a couple of vague concepts as a reasoning.
What did we take from them? The regular jailing and torturing of anyone who questioned the state? The constant living in fear that even the hint of disagreement with the wrong person could result in brutal retaliation? If that's what you're talking about, then sure.
We took one thing away that really matters. Their self determination. That's the real problem with Iraq right now. No matter what we do, there will always be a sense that the government that results is not their own. That's the biggest trick to all of this. It's something we managed to do in Germany and Japan after WW2, but were utterly unable to do in South Vietnam during that conflict. There are certainly elements of both kinds of political situations in Iraq. I still say that everything in Iraq hinges on the makeup of the new government, and how the bulk of the Iraqi people respond to that government.
We'll just have to see how that works out. There is a "win" scenario for the US in this. It's a difficult one, but it's certainly possible. And if we pull it off, it will be huge. And honestly, even if we fail, we've done more with the message of Iraq then all the posturing and speeches of the last decade have done. Just ask why Syria and Libya are making concessions towards the US recently...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
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What did we take from them? The regular jailing and torturing of anyone who questioned the state? The constant living in fear that even the hint of disagreement with the wrong person could result in brutal retaliation? If that's what you're talking about, then sure.
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Why is anyone surprised that we're going to be in Iraq for quite some time?
Edited, Fri Apr 23 00:17:47 2004 by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
NM gbaji you just wont get it, carry on.
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