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Is there anything that he has done...Follow

#1 Feb 25 2004 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
that you Bush haters don't whine over? Let's face facts even Clinton did favorable things for the country when he wasn't get head from monica. Let's hear a few things from you ultra liberals or even fence walking liberals that Bush has done, or is doing that you believe is positive for the country or world.

#2 Feb 25 2004 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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I love it when he takes long vacations, fails to fund his own initiatives in his budgets, and makes ridiculous stances on meaningless things, but most of all I love it when he does this.

Edited, Wed Feb 25 21:23:34 2004 by Atomicflea
#3 Feb 26 2004 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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I like how when he's trying to look serious, he gets a vacant expression and the corners of his mouth sort of dimple in, making him look like a wizened five year old. It makes me chuckle and then I'm happy.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Feb 26 2004 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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I don't really like you much, Joph- mostly because you never say flattering things about me. But I must say, that gave me a good chuckle.
#5 Feb 26 2004 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I like all of the following:

some poster on the Fray at Slate.com wrote:

He started off really smart in 1976 in Kenneburekport, ME, arrested for Driving Under the Influence of alcohol, pled guilty, paid a fine and had his license suspended for 30 days. Oh, you know who it is, already? Try to find his driving record in Texas, his home state, -- you can't because it is 'lost' and unavailable.

He joined the Texas a Air National Guard and went Absent With Out Leave. He refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about his drug use. We know he avoided Viet Nam by joining the Guard.

He graduated from Yale University with a low C average and was a cheerleader.

His past work experience notes that he ran for US Congress and lost, - began his career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in 1975, bought an oil company but couldn't find any oil in Texas.The company went bankrupt shortly after he sold his stock.

He bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweet heart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of his father and right wing friends in the oil industry, -including ENRON CEO Kenneth Lay, he was elected governor of Texas.

His accomplishments while governor include the fact that he changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies making Texas the most polluted state in the union.

During his tenure, Huston replaced Los Angeles as the worst smog ridden city in America.

He cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas teasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

He set the record for the most excecutions by any governor in American history.

With the help of his brother, governor of Florida, and his father's appointments to the Supreme Court, he became president after losing by 500,000 votes.

While president, his accomplishments are record breaking: He is the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

He invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over 1 billion dollars per week.

He spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US treasury.

He shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in US history.

He set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

He set the all time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

He set the all time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US stock market.

In his first year of office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues each month.

He is proud that the members of his cabinet are the
richest of any administration in US history.

His poorest millionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron Oil tanker named after her.

He set the record for the most campaign fundraising tips by a US president.

He is the all time US and world record holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

His largest lifetime campaign contributor and one of his best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in US history;-ENRON.

His political party used ENRON private jets and corporate attorneys to assure his success with the US Supreme Court during his election decision.
#6 Feb 26 2004 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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To be fair I will post some things I don't like about liberals and democrats:

I don't like helmet laws, seatbelt laws, or any laws that punish a citizen for being a danger to himself. I also don't like certain smoking bans in public places. Jeez you nonsmokers got the bus and the plane, not to mention 3/4ths of restaurants and the workplace. How can anyone drink without smoking? Making coffee shops and bars off limits to smoking is lame.

The democrats are unwilling to discuss the end of the drug war.

The dems have too many big business ties. I view our two parties as the left and right wing of the business party.

I believe that guns and abortions should both be legal. I am against gun control to a far extent. Obviously there are some weapons that shouldn't be in the hands of citizens, but I am willing to err on the side of freedom to guns. Irresponsible gun ownership will happen, but it's not like we have some shortage of people in the country. There are irresponsible drivers, parents, cops, sports figures, drug abusers and all kinds of knuckleheadedness everywhere you look. But I think responsible (haven't committed wanton acts of violence) citizens should have access to guns. Period.

I dont like the democrats willingness to cave on unpopular issues. They follow the polls to closely and seem to be willing to compromise out of fear when they should stick to their guns. I knew the charges against Iraq were bogus, and I'm a waiter. Bush didn't fool them, they were afraid to disagree because of Bush's standing in the public eye.

NAFTA was a serious mistake and noone seems to want to address it. We need to move corporate offices back into the US, along with the factories. There is no shame in being a working man, except when all the manufacturing jobs have moved overseas.

I don't like the dems penchant for getting wrapped in stupid scandals.

I dont like "political correctness" at all. I think that term itself is Orwellian. Smacks of thoughtcrime. I do believe in being polite with strangers. An armed society is a polite society.

There are many more. I will vote for the opposition democrat this year, and not Nader, though I do have a lot of respect for him. I would also vote for some republicans, like John McCain or Arlen Specter. I am firmly in the ABB camp.

Gadfly Kucinich was great on Bill Mayer this week.
#7 Feb 26 2004 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Heh. Meadros. Not the first time we've seen that list (but always good to see it again). You are aware that pretty much everything on it is either just plain incorrect, deliberately skewed, or not something that had anything to do with him at all, right?

Just a couple glaring ones:

The US supreme court did not make a decision to declare Bush the winner of the election because any lawyers from anyone talked them into it (SOTUS doesn't really work that way, and certainly not in this case). The rules they followed are quite clear. By the laws of the US Constitution, Bush won the election. Popular vote count is not how we determine who beomes president of the US. The only point at issue was the electoral votes in Florida, yet despite a couple months of recounting, and no matter how they counted, nor how many times they counted, chads and all, the count for those electoral votes went to Bush. The Supreme Court was not so much declaring Bush the winner of the election but telling the Democrat political machine to stop trying desperately to interrupt the working of the federal government. The votes were tallied. Bush won. People need to just stop crying about it.


You can hardly blame Bush for the bankruptcies, nor the economic downturn of 2001. Most of those were dot coms that existed purely on paper to begin with, and went bankrupt because after 2000, folks finally realized that these companies didn't actually make any products nor any real money. The same thing would have happened if Gore had won.

You could, however, blame Clinton's administration for allowing the whole "day trader" thing to happen, which is about the only government economic decision that had any effect on the downturn in 2001/2002, since it destabilized the market by increasing speculative investment (which can be considered one of the causes for the dotcom bubble growing so large in the first place). But let's not put any common sense into this list...


One more: All the "guilt by association" stuff just doesn't wash. You can tell that this was done during the Enron scandal, since if it was more recent it would be talking about Halliburton instead. The simple fact is that people don't become president of the US by never knowing or doing business with anyone. At that level of politics you will almost by definition have connections of one type or another with the heads of nearly every major business, media, and interest in the country. You just can't avoid dealing with those groups along your political career. You could literally tie Enron to just about any elected politician at the federal level. That Bush had some dealings with them is irrelevant. So did everyone else.


It does remind me of the "study" that listed all the people that Clinton knew personally/professionally who died from one "mysterious" cause or another during his terms in office. Again, there were kernels of truth in all of them, and they were people he "knew" and/or did business with. But the sheer number of people that a president will have known or done business with on the way to the whitehouse ensures that just by law of averages a number of them will die while he's in office. Again. Lots of speculation and innuendo, but really just a whole lot of smoke when you step back and look at things rationally.


Still a funny read though.
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#8 Feb 26 2004 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't hate Bush. I think he's the worst President I've ever seen or read about, however. Doesn't mean I hate the guy. I do think he's a piece of **** as a person, that wouldn't help you or I up if he saw us fall down.

I think George W. Bush handled himself admirably in the days after the September 11th attacks. That, however, was the best his Presidency has given us. He gave a quality speech to give us hope, then proceeded down the path of war, civil liberty restrictions, and bad public policy regarding the economy, education, health care, and a myriad of other issues.

On a side note. While I do wish that we could have gotten Osama months or years ago, I have no doubt he'll show up 2 months before the election, as I'm sure he's already in custody.

Grady
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#9 Feb 26 2004 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Meadros wrote:
I dont like "political correctness" at all. I think that term itself is Orwellian. Smacks of thoughtcrime. I do believe in being polite with strangers. An armed society is a polite society.


Amen. I am so sick of feeling like I am walking on egg shells when talking to or about a certain group of people, be it a minority or an organization, or what have you. This country needs to lighten up. We used to be able to laugh at ourselves and still be civil without all of these tags and labels that we've since put on ourselves.
#10 Feb 26 2004 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I like it when he says "subliminable". Repeatedly.


Quote:
yet despite a couple months of recounting, and no matter how they counted, nor how many times they counted, chads and all, the count for those electoral votes went to Bush.


The only problem I have with this is that the person who decided which votes counted and which ones didn't was Bush's co-campaign chairman in Florida (the other being his brother Jeb.)

She is now a congressional rep. But according to this site...

http://katherineharrissucks.com/


...she isn't exactly holding up the ideals of her constituency. I'm sure other opinions vary.




#11 Feb 26 2004 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Deathwysh wrote:
I like it when he says "subliminable". Repeatedly.


I like it when he says "nucular", repeatedly. Them darn nook-yoo-lar weapons, they's gonna pose a threat to our grand nation, yee-haw!

Jophiel wrote:
I like how when he's trying to look serious, he gets a vacant expression and the corners of his mouth sort of dimple in, making him look like a wizened five year old. It makes me chuckle and then I'm happy.


His awkward facial expressions, while dismaying in that he's the titular representation for our country world-wide, are very amusing. Half the time he looks like a slack-jawed ****** trying not to poo himself. the rest of the time he looks severely constipated, trying desperately to poo.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#12 Feb 26 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
There is no shame in being a working man, except when all the manufacturing jobs have moved overseas.


I'd like to know which countries you think our jobs have moved to. Just needed to address this since it is a common misconception.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-16-04.html
#13 Feb 26 2004 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Weird. Not once in that article did he explain why there's no longer a single customer or tech support number under the sun I can call without chatting to some guy in Calcutta.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#14 Feb 26 2004 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, the Cato Institute has no agenda...

Grady
____________________________
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
#15 Feb 26 2004 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
On a side note. While I do wish that we could have gotten Osama months or years ago, I have no doubt he'll show up 2 months before the election, as I'm sure he's already in custody.


that would pain me deeply, as I already have no idea where my tax dollars are going.

Quote:
I'd like to know which countries you think our jobs have moved to. Just needed to address this since it is a common misconception.


take your pic in the semi-conductor industry. everything from fabs to tech support to educational services are moving overseas...my company included.
#16 Feb 26 2004 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Not once in that article did he explain why there's no longer a single customer or tech support number under the sun I can call without chatting to some guy in Calcutta.


Quote:
And the United States has a huge surplus in business services with every region in the world -- that is, the United States sells much more "outsourcing" to other countries than it buys from them.


Quote:
Yeah, the Cato Institute has no agenda...


Yes, they have the obviously sinister agenda of promoting "Individual Liberty, Limited Government, Free Markets and Peace"
#17 Feb 26 2004 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
old hat old news but some what 50k black voters purged from Florida records for being felons, one dirty son of a ***** managed to get a pre cog on his crime cause he was purged for a crime that will happen in 2007.

Funny to see old Judge Scallia resurficing after all the fun he had in the Florida recounts this time while sitting as the Justice on a case for Halliburton during Cheney's tenure as the CEO of Haliburton then runs off to hunt with Cheney for the weekend and sees that this wont effect his objectivity.

Another little tidbit some guy finnally comes forward to say he remembers serving with Bush in Alabama from May to October of 1972, funniest part was Bush didnt even ask for permission to leave Houston til September or claim to have showed up for drills until October. He refuses to take a medical exam who those of us who are ex military are like WTF you can do that ?!?!?!? (funny tidbit here 1972 is the first year the Air Force was using random drug testing, and Bush has said that he did drugs before 1974). 2 weeks ago you laughingly responded to Tim Russert, "I am a war president." awful friggin hawkish about sending others to war while you did everything you could to not go.

#18 Feb 26 2004 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, they have the obviously sinister agenda of promoting "Individual Liberty, Limited Government, Free Markets and Peace"

And Fox News is Fair & Balanced. It says so right on their website! Smiley: lol

Accuracy.org article

Re-edited to fix link code issues

Edited, Thu Feb 26 18:24:48 2004 by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#19 Feb 26 2004 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
Well Jophiel, when you can find an article on their website, testimony before congress or an amicus brief to the Supreme Court that isn't consistent with those ideals please let me know. Until then you are making a prejudicial remark about an organization you obviously know very little about.
#20 Feb 26 2004 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
Dyzalot wrote:
Quote:
There is no shame in being a working man, except when all the manufacturing jobs have moved overseas.


I'd like to know which countries you think our jobs have moved to. Just needed to address this since it is a common misconception.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-16-04.html



lol this one is easy to refute just go to

http://www.cnn.com/lou

Lou Dobbs has been doing an expose for the last few months about the "exporting of America" and naming the companies who do this on his nightly telecast after they are confirmed, dunno about you but if I am say IBM and this isnt true I am gonna sue for slander/libel, since my name has been publically scandalized and then done so again in print on the internet.

Edit--trying to lose funky quote thing

Edited, Thu Feb 26 17:34:07 2004 by flishtaco
#21 Feb 26 2004 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Until then you are making a prejudicial remark about an organization you obviously know very little about
I thought that was the forum mission statement.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Feb 26 2004 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Lou Dobbs has been doing an expose for the last few months about the "exporting of America" and naming the companies who do this on his nightly telecast after they are confirmed, dunno about you but if I am say IBM and this isnt true I am gonna sue for slander/libel, since my name has been publically scandalized and then done so again in print on the internet.


1st of all my statement was regarding manufacturing jobs. The 2nd thing wrong with that site is it says nothing about the jobs that we import from other countries.

Quote:
And the United States has a huge surplus in business services with every region in the world -- that is, the United States sells much more "outsourcing" to other countries than it buys from them.


Can you prove that statement wrong?
#23 Feb 26 2004 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
Bah! double post

Edited, Thu Feb 26 19:04:04 2004 by Dyzalot
#24 Feb 26 2004 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
easily done actually search "trade and deficit" and see how many hits you get. Many, many come up the first one is.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/iy/shortcut_news/trade+deficit/1/SIG=12qj494n0/*-

surely as good a source as cato, if not you can look thru some of what the AP etc has there confirming same dismal numbers of around 500 billion deficit in trade with other countries.
#25 Feb 26 2004 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Am I the only one amused by the fact that the authors of the cato article specifically mentions Dobbs as someone spreading bogus and tweaked info in order to alarm folks about the "loss of jobs to other nations", and the first counter to that article is a link to one about/by Dobbs himself?

Hmmmm...

Look. Businesses go through phases. They start out by breaking into a new market (like IT and related jobs) with a huge growth. Being first to market is the most important thing during this phase, so companies spends lots of money and hire lots of people (the hammer approach). Once market saturation is reached in a region, they do two things *at the same time*, the start expanding into new market regions, and they change their business market in the region(s) with saturation to make them more efficient. They do the later because once you've got everyone in a region that's going to buy your new thing sold on it, normal competition rules apply. The company that can bring that product or service to market for the lowest price will gain the most business.

The same cycle applies to IT. We've pretty much hit the saturation point here in the states, so companies are looking at ways to trim their operations to make them more efficient. That means that some jobs will be lost by companies that have been in the business the longest. Also, jobs will be created in other regions to allow for expansion into those areas. These two things occur at the same time, but aren't casually related to eachother. The jobs "lost" domestically aren't really going overseas so much as we're doing two things at the same time the cause a reduction in jobs here and an increase elsewhere. This isn't to say that "no" jobs move overseas, but the vast majority of jobs lost and gained are not the result of a direct move from one place to another.

Despite this process, the total number of IT jobs in the US has still increased over time. They just aren't all at the same companies they were at 4 years ago. This is natural and normal. I'm pretty confident that more IT jobs were created in the last year then moved directly to another country. If you can find a statistic that proove otherwise, I'd love to see it.


Do we really have to have this argument again? I pretty firmly spanked Smash's butt when he tried to argue the same point about a month ago. It's pure scare tactics folks. When you look at the domestic totals, IT jobs are still increasing domestically at a higher rate then the average job increase rate (as the cato article points out). It's all smoke and mirrors designed to put panic in people, and it's purely politically motivated.


If you want to slam Bush for his presidency, there's a ton of things to do it on. You can talk about his "war on terror", and the War in Iraq, and the questionable Homeland Security issues. But blaming Bush for jobs "leaving the country", or for economic downturns during his first couple years in office are literally dogs that dont bite. There is no real evidence supporting any connection between Bush and either of those things, and in the case of the jobs leaving, it's not even a true problem.


But hey! Why let logic and fact get in the way of rhetoric and innuendo?
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#26 Feb 26 2004 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I did the Libs now I will attempt some fair critisism of the right.

I don't like that the administration is so keen on the accountability of everyone else but themselves. What happened to "The buck stops here"? Everything wrong in this country is blamed on someone else. Bad economy is the fault of Clinton, noone, terrorists. Bush lies about bad nuke from Nigeria intel but Tenet takes the blame. I don't care who told Bush what intel, the responsibility for acting on it is his alone. If I get robbed and someone I trust tells me it was the neighbor, and I kill him it is my responsibility.

I don't like that these starve the beast people cannot be honest about what they are doing. If you really want to bankrupt the government to dissolve SS, just say so. No need to lie and say it is for economic growth. Either the people will back you or not. This underhandedness is sick.

I hate it when people act in blatant self interest and then wrap themselves in the flag.

Anyone who claims to have moral integrity while seeking office is a suspected hypocrite in my book.

I don't like it when people claim this is a "Christian Nation". Yes, there are a large number of Christians here. They are mostly all on the ****** list IMO.

I don't like how progession is viewed as bad and the idea that we should work backwards toward a better, more wholesome traditional society. Hmmm I have read a few history books. Which parts are the good ones? Slavery, 80 hour workweeks or the part about womens' place is in the home?

I don't like that the Bush family has a relationship going back 4 generations with the Saudi royals.

The backhanded manner in which we have dealt with the middle east since 1945 is dispicable. I don't wonder why so many people there hate us, I wonder why the hell be have gotten ourselves so intwined there. Scrath the last, rather I think minipulating the whole region for their resources is reprehensible.

I don't like how the GOP has hoodwinked the south into submissiom by catering to the worst in people.

Ditto that for religious people.

I don't like that conservastives in general are unwilling to concede anything is amiss, and they are way too eager to "support" their guy even when he is obviously in the wrong.

I can't stand it when conservatives say "Get over it, bad loser" when there are ligitamate questions left unanswered.

Just a few.
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