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#52 Feb 02 2004 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
Sacrificial Lamb
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Bullsh1t.

I'm calling the two of you on this.

Oh really, you are getting a tattoo for you, huh? It's not because it's something fashionable, is it? It's not for any reasons outside of a heartfelt and deep emotional need to somehow outwardly display an inner aspect of your personality, right?

<cough>Bullsh1t<cough>

That explains why it's become recently popular, doesn't it? Prior to this illumnated generation nobody had a manner of expressing themselves apparently. <rollseyes> It also explains why like Smash said all these yearning artistes pick flash book tats, because, after all, it means something to them.

ROFLMAO.

You'd have so much more integrity in my eyes if you'd simply admitted you prefer to be trendy and faddish. So what's next for you two visionary emotionalists? Self multilation when that becomes the "in thing?" Puh-lease. As your mother undoubtedly told you, if your friends jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, does that mean you do it too?

I guess for you individualists (snort!) the answer would be, "Yes! In a New York minute!"

Totem
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#53 Feb 02 2004 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I would agree with you, Totem (for the most part), with the exception that in my case I really don't have tattoos "for" anyone else. I do not show them off at work, I don't show them off outside of work and very few of my bridge-jumping friends have them. So, where's the trendy part? I think that a lot of people get tattoos because they are popular and trendy but that doesn't mean we all do. It actually is possible to get a tattoo because you have an appreciation of such things. I put a lot of thought into what I wanted and had a close friend do them for me. I got them because I loved the art and I wanted something lasting on my body. End o' trendy story.It's all the jack-asses with belly rings and barbed wire around their biceps that you should be doggin'.
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#54 Feb 02 2004 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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As your mother undoubtedly told you, if your friends jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, does that mean you do it too?

What are we now, six? I hate to break it to you, Totem, but the rebel nonconformist attitude also had its heydey and is now a passé fad, grunge, the hippies, it's all come and gone and will come again. Everything's been done before, in an endless repetitive cycle. No one is unique, there are no unique thoughts. That doesn't mean we all sit in a room with our hands tied and our eyes shut and never breakdancepolevaulthopscotchlistentopinkfloyd just because someone's done it before, and it's now somehow less valuable as a pursuit. If you enjoy it, who cares why?
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#55 Feb 02 2004 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriously dude, calm down. None of my many tats I got because it was "cool" to get them. I never got them when I was too drunk to find the ship in Australia like many of my friends and shipmates, I got them for Me. The two on my arms, they are my design and ARE me, both my aspects. My half-back, is a dedication to my grandfather and the ship he served and died proudly on in WW2. Every single one I have means something to me, something that I will always remember. And I love showing them off, and explaining why they are there. Stop raining on other people's parades.




Ohhh that makes me mad
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#56 Feb 02 2004 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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I'm doggin' anybody that gets a tattoo. If artistic expression is what you are after, take a painting class. At least then the work would be your own rather than someone else doing the work.

It's like going to Rembrandt and saying paint me a picture of this dragon or scantily clad lady and then going out and boasting to everybody that it's the product of your artistry. The only difference is if Rembrandt actually inked you, it'd be worth something. Instead you have some ex-con zapping ink under your skin exposing you to HIV, hepatitis, and flesh eating bacteria.

Face it. To get a tattoo is to demonstrate the shallowness of your life. If this is what it takes to make something of your life, why spare the rest of us the details? Just go mouth a loaded shotgun and tattoo the bedroom wall with your brain. At least then the homicide detectives who investigate can take pictures of it and have a good rendition of your "artistry."

Totem
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#57 Feb 02 2004 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, speaking of dragons, who woke Totem up?

That's just it, Totem. I am not walking around proclaiming the tattoos as an expression of my artistry. I'm not doing anything with them, except enjoying them myself. I enjoy other people's painting and music, and when I download a song to my computer, I don't then proclaim that it is mine. There are people that do things like that, and maybe they should take a shotgun to themselves. I just don't understand how what I have on my body, my personal property, has to do with what I've made of my life. What if I have a big, hairy birthmark on my ass? Relegated to taking drive-thru orders for the rest of my life?



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#58 Feb 02 2004 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmm. Bored Totem? I suppose it has been awhile since you've trolled.

How many tattoos do you have Totem? I don't remember.

Anyhow.

I've always told myself that if I ever saw a Myan design that called out to me, I'd get it, very small, somewhere not often seen by people other than flea and myself. My mom used to read books about the Myans to me, and tell me about certain things she did back home in Honduras as a kid that was what Myan kids used to do as well, or close to it.

Been many years, and nothing has called out my name yet. But I wouldn't hesitate to get one should it ever present itself. However 'fad-like' it may be.

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#59 Feb 02 2004 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow dude, a little stereotypical here? How much do you actually know about slinging ink? Next to nothing it looks like. Safety is a major factor in almost every parlor. Of course there are the dirty run-down places, but there are dirty run-down hospitals too. Just to get a licence in California you have to have gone through an advanced sterilization course at a university, and have proof. Many tattoo artists actually went to art school to do what they love, art. A tattoo is one of the ultimate expressions of art, in my opinion, because it is something that you will always have with you. Now granted, not everybody is like myself and go out of their way to find a good place and study up on the subject, but it is still the idea. Tattoos have always been there to express something, either affiliation with one organization or another, to the African ash tattoos proclaming a man.
Maybe you should read up on the subject, might learn a thing or two.
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#60 Feb 02 2004 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Haha, good job Totem, they fell for it.

Now, come on, tell them how many tats you got back in 'nam.

One for every charlie right?
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#61 Feb 02 2004 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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The proud owner of a pebble grained finish on his noggin from his annual ritual stoning in Mecca

You fanboy, like you don't show off your dimpled head. Getting stoned at Mecca is what everybody does.
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#62 Feb 02 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Antima wrote:
How much do you actually know about slinging ink?


I just want to state for the record that I have nothing to do with "slinging ink". Smiley: laugh

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#63 Feb 02 2004 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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No tats, I collected ears instead.

First and foremost, tattoo parlors are not the hermetically-sealed-sealed-for-your-protection experiences that Antima would have you believe they are. If anything, they are precisely like those toilets in the Motel 6 that the maid just slips that confidence inspiring piece of paper so that you feel safe while plopping your fat a$$ down on somebody else's pube and peeing.

Yeah, and you guys thought that was a carpet fiber. <rollseyes>

I will say it again: Tattoos are a weak expression of your individuality. Deny it all you want, but getting a tattoo in this day and age is nothing more than trendy me-tooism. Pure and simple.

If bad private art is what you want, go buy a velvet Elvis painting, hide it in your closet, and go and look at it once in a while. I suspect you'll enjoy The King for alot longer than you will that artwork put on your skin. At least when the time comes, you can always throw the Elvis away. You can't say the same thing about your tattoo.

Totem
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#64 Feb 02 2004 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
If bad private art is what you want, go buy a velvet Elvis painting, hide it in your closet, and go and look at it once in a while.


Hide it in my closet? Huh? Any art that is even partially velvet would be displayed proudly in my home. Actually, I saw a velvet-Elvis painting in a bar once. Except he looked more like the Mexican version of Elvis. Tequila!

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#65 Feb 02 2004 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Acutally, Totem, any parlor worth their ink in the US *IS* like that. There are alot of dives out there, but you would have to be pretty dumb to go there.
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#66 Feb 02 2004 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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Sure, if they were worth their ink, but that's exactly the problem. Tattoo parlors are, by-and-large, places where ex-cons who like to draw go to get work. And having a former criminal say that he used (or even owns) the autoclave before he inked you carries as much weight as him telling the parole board he has learned his lesson and wants to become a productive member of society now.

Riiiiight.

Look, if you get a tattoo on yourself, what do I care? I even once gave it consideration, but fortunately came to my senses/got a hangover before I actually did it.

The reality of all this is you have no idea if the guy cleaned his equipment or not before he stuck you. It's an article of faith that he did, but unless you actually saw him autoclave the needle, ink pots, and disinfect his hands-- and not by just washing them with soap and water either --you must assume he and all his equipment is dirty. The risk is too great not to. And the reality is you are not going to see him do this.

These are practical concerns and have nothing to do with the psychology behind even wanting something which has only recently been socially acceptable. If you want to be a rebel then go against the grain and take a painting class. The idea of actually improving yourself is so freakishly weird that all your n'er-do-well friends will soon ostrasize you and you'll be even lonelier than before.

That shotgun is sounding better all the time, nes pas?

Totem
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#67 Feb 02 2004 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Like I said before, if you go out and get inked at a place where you DON'T see any of this happen is just dumb. Here in San Diego I go to a place called Church of Steel. It's great, and very clean. The two guys that run the place (An inker and a piercer) are damn good artists and very professional about their work. The sterilizer is sitting on the counter, along with all the tools they use, and they make sure you watch as they use them.

Anyway, I'm tired of ranting, you obviously don't want to listen, and you more than likely don't care anyway. The point is, instead of trying to scare people into not doing something that they have an interest in, shut up or at least try to educate them, as I was doing. I have never had a problem with any of my tats, nor do I forsee any in the future.
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#68 Feb 02 2004 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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You see, Antima, you are living in the Never-never Land where all the ex-cons, errr, inkers of the world are genuinely concerned for the health and well being of their customers. While your experience may be a valid one, you continue to ignore that that is the exception to the rule. The typical parlor has the equipment and may very well use it, but you have no way of verifying that. Sure, you could demand that they do it in front of you, but that implicitly means you are engaging in risky behavior.

Chewing on light bulbs probably has a lower risk factor for long term health consequences than does tattooing. And again, that speaks only to the practical issues of health, not the empirical issues of artistic taste.

If it is not something to be proud of, then why bother to hide it where no one can see it?
Answer: It's socially unacceptable to tattoo yourself. And if you have such a need to be a so-called non-conformist, then getting a tattoo is about the most conformist way to be non-conformist you can achieve. So what's the point of getting one? You end up being the inked version of the typical Harley rider who rides on weekends and wears black fringy a$$less chaps and has a HD sticker in the back window of his Civic. It's just stupid.

Am I the only one here bright enough to see the logic and truth behind this reasoning? Or are you all a bunch of Stepford wives who believe that popular culture is the end-all to every question?

Sheesh.

Totem
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#69 Feb 02 2004 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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/Goal is amused by Totem

Pak ze! Scheur ze aan flarden!
#70 Feb 02 2004 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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De vis slikt de haak, lijn, en zinklood. Het zal buigtang nemen om hen weg te gaan.

How ya doing, Goal? It's been a long time since I chatted with you.

Totem
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#71 Feb 02 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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De vis slikt de haak, lijn, en zinklood.


Bwahaha. Here you see the Dutch version of "owned".
/laughs out loud

Doing pretty good. Just got a new contract here at the NOS, so I'll be happily reporting the Olympics, European football championships, Wimbledon and the Tour de France.

Still happily with the lady. 5 months together under one roof and still no fisticuffs =)

How about you?
#72 Feb 02 2004 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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Gimme a link to your work, I'd like to see it!

Nothing much here, just picking up the usual idiots who don't know when to stay inside and go out and crash their cars. I'm a little grouchy today, if you can't tell from the general tone of all my posts. I need a vacation badly.

Totem
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#73 Feb 02 2004 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright, I give up. I'm tired of fighting and I've had a b1tch of a day here at work. I usually hate to argue like this.

Yeah, you are right Totem, I already said that. Most parlors are places I wouldn't let my dog crap in, let alone get a tat there. And I never ignored that I was an exception to any rule. I was smart about what I did. It is risky business to get a tat, it's also risky business to let a doc cut you open so he can fix your heart/knee/brain/whatever. But people do it anyway, and only a fool is ashamed of doing it, an idiot of doing it twice. I'm proud of my tats and I enjoy showing them to people, the artwork is excellent.
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#74 Feb 02 2004 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Im sure this has been said before, but when you get your first one, you'll always want more. My first one was about 4 years ago, and ever since then ive been planning my next one. I hope to finally have a good idea of what I want soon. <grins evily>
#75 Feb 02 2004 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
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I personally couldnt do it, I have a hard time imagining how I would explain it to my grandchildren..
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#76 Feb 02 2004 at 8:47 PM Rating: Default
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retired bored hussy??? hmm.. if you say so..
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#77 Feb 02 2004 at 10:00 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Cherrabwyn wrote:
retired bored hussy??? hmm.. if you say so..


Yes, Katie, that's different than "tired board hussy" which is your coveted title.





Edited, Mon Feb 2 23:31:14 2004 by Tare
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#78 Feb 02 2004 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Cherrabwyn wrote:
I personally couldnt do it, I have a hard time imagining how I would explain it to my grandchildren..


Ending:

So, kids, Gramma was always known as the the "town bike" after that...
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#79 Feb 02 2004 at 11:12 PM Rating: Default
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Seriously. Didnt mean to affend you, found the board hussy part funny coming from the overly inlove freak youve become lately. On the note of the tattoo, most women I see with them, thats my first thought, and I know that is awful. "grandma got this cherry put on the inside of her thigh so no guy could pop it..", or "grandma got this tattoo on her tit to be kinky for grandpa..", or again, "grandma got this really cool faded, wrinkly sagging tatto of a beautiful rose back when I was young, not wrinkly or saggey on my arm because I appreciated the art.. ". Anyone else see a problem with these scenarios??
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#80 Feb 02 2004 at 11:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I remember walking down Broadway in downtown San Diego and stopping by the Church of Steel. Very nice parlor. I remember it being pretty small, very personal, and impeccably decorated... on of the things I noticed was the lack of Smash's dreaded flash plastering the walls. Definitely a tattooist's parlor. I had a pretty in depth conversation with a piercer while I was there; the same guy for all I know.

Totem, Totem, Totem. You've masturbated while staring at MTV so long, you've forgotten what real people are like. Particularly the ones who don't really dig stereotypes. You're boxing up of everyone who's got a tattoo is interesting, to say the least. I wouldn't have thought you'd be the kind of guy who hated gooks, burned crosses in yards, and spraypainted honkey crackers' cars while they were on vacation in Whiteyland, but I was wrong. You're exactly the kind of person who would do these things.

Yeah, I take it that seriously.

If you care to debate the methods and merits of sterilization, please, feel free. I guarantee I know more about it from the tattoo end than you ever will, period. But hey, I've insulted personally, it's time to learn and teach. If you've got any questions about tattooing, I beg you to post them, and me (or someone just like me) will answer your questions honestly. I promise you, though, from me to you, some people do not fit your cute little stereotype. I personally would like to know exactly what put some of these ludicrous ideas in your head. I assume it was something personal, rather than a mid-40s bandwagon, because of your veracity. What gives? Something with your job, which I know to be medically related, maybe?
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#81 Feb 02 2004 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Cherrabwyn wrote:
"grandma got this cherry put on the inside of her thigh so no guy could pop it..", or "grandma got this tattoo on her tit to be kinky for grandpa..", or again, "grandma got this really cool faded, wrinkly sagging tatto of a beautiful rose back when I was young


Hmmm...here's my problem, and I know it's not how you do things where y'all are from - my grandkids won't get to see, or hear, about parts of my body or anything on them. See? It's easy.
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#82 Feb 02 2004 at 11:36 PM Rating: Default
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lol not that grand kids should.. but you know, we are all going to get old god willing. And with age we become children again... in more ways than we would like to admit.. your daughter or grandaughter may be the one helping you out. Bathing you, changing your diapers.. Hell, I had a woman walk into my pharmacy the other day and wanted to know what she could do for her mother because her "lips" were growing together..... Dont tell me this sh*t doesnt happen.. I know better. As sick as it is, someone will be wiping your ass, how will you explain that tattoo to your child then??
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#83 Feb 02 2004 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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Who the fu'ck cares at that point? And after spawning a child, raising him/her and then having grandchildren too, I plan not to explain my actions or tattoos to any damn one of 'em.



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#84 Feb 03 2004 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I admit, I pre-judge people that have tattoos. While I am not going to get on their case about it, I wouldn't date anyone with a tattoo for example. Call me shallow...but I am unlikely to be compatible with the mindset that thinks tattooing in a good idea.
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#85 Feb 03 2004 at 5:11 AM Rating: Good
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That's ok, Pat. Your lance is far too big for me anyway. No need to worry over a silly thing such as compatibility.

As for Totem :
Quote:
That shotgun is sounding better all the time, nes pas?


This would be the point where I say "If you're going to use a French phrase to appear faddish and trendy, at least spell it correctly." Or at least I'd say that if I were having a bad day.

Which I'm not.

Merri and Angua .. I got the email. They're gorgeous. I'm still trying to find the full colored version, but damn they're pretty.

As for as taking different avenues of expression, let's not go there. I've painted, I've drawn (both badly), I've tried to write music but have no aptitude (or the fact that I'm a bit tone deaf much to the chagrin of those around me when I sing), and I write. I've done more things than I can reasonably be expected to remember at this hour, and I'm happy with that.

But I still want a tattoo. Most of my friends don't have them, so it's not like I'm trying to fit in with "my" crowd.

I just want it.

Another temptation is my own twist on the marque used in "Kushiel's Dart." That was stunning, but a little over done for me.


/offers Totem some chocolate and hopes he ends the vicious PMS cycle.
#86 Feb 03 2004 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Totem:

Here is one

Here is another

Let me know what you think :)

On the Tattoo thing, once again I find myself in the same camp as Patrician.
#87 Feb 03 2004 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I look at those, and my brain thinks it can almost read them. It's like trying to read a german website underwater. wir sollen immer "lummel" sagen!!! Oh nein, der kase hat meine nase gegessed!
#88 Feb 03 2004 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Just a FYI: about the only thing that would cost you a public lynching in Holland is calling us, or our language, German.

Of course this sad issue derives from WWII (yes, some uf us are still "oppressed" is one way or another by 'die kutmoffen'), yet more than 50 years later the Dutch still can't and won't be friends with our eastern neighbours.

Anyway: give it a shot, Kao. Take a paragraph and start translating. I am curious about your linguistic qualities.

Edited, Tue Feb 3 12:08:55 2004 by Goalkeeper
#89 Feb 03 2004 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, let's see if I can kick this anthill over one more time.

At the top of the order, Germans are second class Dutchmen, or more likely just criminals whose Dutch citizenship was revoked like the Aussies (only not as cool). Being Dutch is to be at the top of the food chain.

Secondly, while to those of you who tattoos are in the cool catagory, to the rest of the world it places you squarely in the Not To Be Trusted catagory. That may not matter to you. Fine. Whatever. But don't come crying to me when you don't get that job, get passed over for that promotion you desire, or the loan officer turns down your application for money, because whether you like it or not, placing ink on your body means something to the rest of the world who is not inclined to engage in aboriginal behavior. And that is what this amounts to: Tribalism. The piercing, marking, and disfigurement are all hallmarks of, "Me in this tribe, you not one of us, unk!" While that may not be what comes to mind when you see a tat, the rest of us (read bankers, bosses, etc here) see rebel, person who does not like team play, nonconformist, does not play well with others.

Scream all you want about this being a stereotype, but the fact remains this is what a tattoo or piercing signifies. Prior to this fad only blue collar sailors or members of biker gangs got tats-- both of whom were frowned upon by the rest of "respectable" society. As an analogy, think of the word "f**k." It was always the language of the undesirables, from the people who came from the wrong side of the tracks. It has become more prevalent in everyday usage, but that doesn't take away from the fact that if you say it-- especially in polite company or in a business setting--it speaks volumes about you and what type of person you are: specifically a low brow, low class individual.

Don't blame me for these perceptions. It's just the way it is.

I can go so far as to say that prior to tattooing and piercing becoming popular, that if a person were to get one it would possibly --possibly-- be a testament to their individuality or originality, because it would be done regardless the consequences. Particularly if it were visible.

But now it just reflects a vapidness of spirit, the desire to be original without the effort to actually create something original, a shortcut, if you will, to being avant gard. And that's the problem-- there are no shortcuts to being creative. It's a laborious process, and one that is intensely personal, not something which you wake up one day and think, "Huh. A tattoo is cool, not to mention highly original. I think I'll get one." That would be, to paraphrase Dr. Evil, "Creative Lite." The velvet painting of acrylic oil painting. The Mr. Bill of sculptures.

If you truly want to folow in the footsteps of someone truly creative and still be tribalistic, cut your ear off like Van Gogh. That, at least, would be modeled after someone with true vision. To get a tat is just wanking.

Totem
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#90 Feb 03 2004 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't blame me for these perceptions. It's just the way it is.
I suppose this is the way it is if you're old. I guess when I'm old I'll be bitching about scarification.
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#91 Feb 03 2004 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Prolly, Flea.

With age comes wisdom. And while I am not the smartest guy on the block, nor the wisest, my perspective on permanent life choices due to my age gives me an advantage over the younger members of our studio audience. I have the luxury of seeing the effects of decisions that I and others made and are now paying the price for-- things which cannot be undone regardless how much we wish them to be.

And really, tats and peircings don't bother me, heck, I hardly even notice them on people. But mind you, it does say something about you and would impact my thoughts about you if I were to have to make a decision concerning employment, salary, dating my kids, etc.

I simply believe that if your life is so bereft of significance that a tattoo is the only way to add meaning, frenching a loaded shotgun is prolly your only option at this point. There are far far better ways to show your individuality that actually improves yourself and others. Start with volunteering. And, no, not at a tattoo parlor.

Heh.

Totem
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#92 Feb 03 2004 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Do you wear a wedding ring Totem?

Why?

It's just a sign of conformity right? Just like every other married person.

Surely if you are reduced to showing your love for your wife by a crappy ring on your finger you're better off having a threesome with a loaded shot gun and your wife, right?

No? That's different?



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#93 Feb 03 2004 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, it is a sign of conformity, Skeeter. I willingly took on that symbol of conformation to a rigid set of marital standards: fidelity, trust, unconditional love, unending devotion regardless the cost, and selflessness.

I wear it for her, not me. I wear it as a sign of respect for the vow she took that is the mirror image of my vow to her-- an unbreakable vow. And while it serves to remind me of my obligations and promise, it is more for her to see that her husband is equally committed to the work of tending to the relationship, as is her ring in the same way my visual reminder.

It is not a form of artistic expression, it is not some form of electronic dog collar which emotionally zaps me every time I'm tempted to stray off the yard, it is not an anchor to hold me in place.

It is a symbol of commitment.

Totem
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#94 Feb 03 2004 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Your logic makes every philosopher, from Socrates to Thomas of Aquino to René Descartes to bloody Jean Paul Sarte himself, scream from agony in their grave.

I salute you.
#95 Feb 03 2004 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
Very touching Totem, but you missed what I was trying to say.

Or perhaps I missed what you were saying.

Tattoo for "art", ok, you have a good point there, but who's to say I can't get a tattoo that means something, whether it means something to me, or my family, or my heritage. I thought that's what the first tattoos were, you know, the ones a long the lines of "Mom". Was that banner with "mom" written on it made for fashion? To be cool and trendy? I think it's because he loved his mom.

I happen to be proud of my heritage, and wouldn't mind having a "symbol" of my pride tattooed on me.

Whether it ends up somewhere hidden, or somewhere readily visible doesn't really matter to me.

Kind of like the wedding ring I had picked out for me.

Platinum band with yellow gold lining the inside. Going to cost a little bit more to have it made that way, almost nobody will know that it's even there. It's just something that I discussed with Flea, and something I feel like doing.

So, the Tattoo's my highschool buddies got years ago=pretty dumb
but, I also believe a well thought out tattoo can have great meaning, and not just be something to keep with the fad.

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#96 Feb 03 2004 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
GoalKeeper, after you did a Google search for philosophers, did you check each name to make sure they were dead, or did you do a google search for dead philosophers?

Could you explain to me why you say that?

I like to consider myself pretty open minded. I've admitted I'm not a reader(yet) I'll also admit I'm not familiar with some of those philosophers.

I thought my post made perfect sense, but I guess that's a given, since I posted it.
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#97 Feb 03 2004 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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things which cannot be undone regardless how much we wish them to be.
But they can be undone, with lasers!
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#98 Feb 03 2004 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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No, I got your point entirely, Skeeter.

My wedding band is a symbol which has a long and rich history of meaning something. The gold band is not something which has recently taken hold of the young public's imagination. It is not something that in twenty years-- assuming you are still married happily --you will regret getting. It is not something which is used to describe my individuality.

If anything, it is the opposite of a tattoo. It marks the wearer as half of a union of two individuals into one being; it marks the wearer as someone no longer available for compatability to others; it marks the individual as having accepted a certain standard of behaviors and rituals that are Time honored.

I don't wear my wedding band to celebrate me, I wear it to celebrate her. That is the distinct difference that a tattoo does, which a ring does not.

If you choose to take pride in your heritage, your mother, your anything by getting a tattoo, that is a whole different issue. I'd take sides with you on it by saying there are other ways to more effectively and concretely show pride than getting a tattoo, but hey, it's your choice.

Totem
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#99 Feb 03 2004 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Not entirely, Flea. At least, not usually.

Totem
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#100 Feb 03 2004 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
Ok, I get ya.

My problem is, I'm full of "what if"s. No matter how logically something is explained to me, my brain will ask itself "but... what if this....?" And that's where we get wedding bands and threesomes with shotguns. It's just the way I am I guess. I've never been able to settle with just answer, or one way to reach an answer. Many times I got bad grades in Math because I didn't use the "formula" for getting the answer. The answer was correct, but just the fact that I didn't use the formula the book tells me to use made it wrong. I never liked that. Never will. Only true things that are black and white are the colors, and even they have hints of grey in them if you look close enough.
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#101 Feb 03 2004 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Goalkeeper wrote:


Anyway: give it a shot, Kao. Take a paragraph and start translating. I am curious about your linguistic qualities.



I'm guessing I butchered the translation here pretty badly. I haven't made an effort to rewrite it. Just translating the words as I guess them. I didn't use any dictionaries this time, so if I butchered a word or phrase, it's my own fault.

Origional (I took 2 paragraphs)
Van het grote doel, deelname aan de Olympische Spelen van Athene, hebben de nationale hockeydames zich al verzekerd. Toch staat er in de aanloop naar 's werelds grootste sportevenement nog een uiterst prestigieus toernooi op het hockeyprogramma. Vanaf 29 november strijdt de brigade van bondscoach Marc Lammers in Sydney namelijk om de Champions Trophy.

Dat de plaatsing voor de Spelen al in een eerder stadium werd afgedwongen, is voor de bondscoach een geschenk uit de hemel. Het gewonnen EK bespaarde Oranje niet alleen een zwaar kwalificatietoernooi in Nieuw-Zeeland; Lammers kan op het Sydney Olympic Park het spel van zijn ploeg verder polijsten en het team in relatieve rust uit laten groeien tot een nog sterker collectief.

My translation (such as it is)
When it’s a big deal, the Olympics playing in Athens, Having the the National Ladies hocky team are all (Crazy? Excited? ). To play in the (aanloop=field? ) at the worlds greatest sporting event is a very prestigious tournament of the hocky program. On 29 November plays the Brigade of head coach Mark Lammers in Sydney for (at? Over?) the Champions trophy

The strategy for the gameplay in either stadium is was (afgedwongen? No clue.) is for the head coach a game of the mind, Having won the EK sparred with Orange in a qualification match in new Zealand, Coach Lanners can at the Sydney Olympic Park had played for a better position relative to the rest of something to another steller collection?


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