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And... it's up the a$$ for Indians. Again.Follow

#1 Jan 06 2004 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Sniping Sweetpea
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http://indiancountry.com/?1073061036

Has anyone else seen this article about McDonalds not considering American Indians as minorities eligible for their scholarship program?

It really does amaze me that people think that Indians are rich off casinos when almost all have unemployment levels over 50%, plus rampant AIDS, diabetes, alcoholism, suicide... Some make money, it's true, but they sink it into their communities and most are still in the hole. It's like our very own third world nation. There is no minority, as a group, as poor as the Indians.

Way to keep ******** them, McDonald's.
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#2 Jan 06 2004 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Yet another reason not to eat there. Along with the fact that their food blows.
#3 Jan 06 2004 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Any minority charity type program that doesn't include all 4 officially recognized minorites (at least) should not be allowed to claim it's a minority program.
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#4 Jan 06 2004 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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I am just curious, if an American Indian lives on a reservation, is he or she considered a minority by all of you? Or do they have to be living off the reservation? My curiousity goes to the idea that, while not in any way shape or form perfectly implemented or enforced, suggest indian reservations are "autonimous" entities, governments unto themselves, as it were. If we allow them, all be it treaty bound and poorly, to have their own laws, governments, etc., should we not then expect them, as a collective or individually, to provide their own grant/scholership/loan programs? At least to reservation residents. I have no comments either way on McDonald's scolarship program. Suffice to say I am too white to qualify for much of any financial aid, and on paper my parents had too much money to even get a subsidised loan. I am just inquiring as to the opinions of the board vis a vis the status of Indian tribes in this country.
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#5 Jan 06 2004 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
should not be allowed to claim it's a minority program.


That is discrimination against minority programmes.
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#6 Jan 06 2004 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yah-te-hay!

The paleface devils have given us heapum big bad medicine again. Crazy warpainted Ronald-of-the-big-yellow-shoes-and-bright-red-hair who is chief of Robull-robull and the Fry Guys did not parley with the Spirit People, savvy? Now his ghost will walk among the dead buffalo he has slaughtered to build his wig-wams with the golden rainbows.

Hear me now, Great White Leader! We will ask our ancestors to prevent Chief Ronald from entering the Hunting Grounds in the Sky but instead live among the squaw and clean our elk hides and crush the maize for our food.

Yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi!

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#7 Jan 06 2004 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, Totem. You're going to ****. Smiley: laugh

Moebius, I consider Indians a minority because they make up about 1% of the population. If I move to Boston, it doesn't make me any whiter (unless you count the reflection).

As far as life on the rez, the higher education movement in Indian Country is only about 30 years old. In that time, businesses have been established that are somewhat self-supporting, but a large chunk of operating costs are from soft money, and I don't know if you've ever been to a bank but it's **** on your credit to only have grant dollars to show. Any loasn they get are high interst, and so it goes. The poorest reservations are at least a 4-5 hour drive away from a grocery store, let alone a hospital or a city. No one comes there. They put Indians there for a reason. Very few were allowed to remain in their ancestral homelands, and face isolation and the ensuing poverty and hunger that entails.






Edited, Tue Jan 6 13:26:01 2004 by Atomicflea
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#8 Jan 06 2004 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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I would imagine that it'd be horrible publicity if it were publicized enough.

Good thing I don't eat there.
#9 Jan 06 2004 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Moebius, I consider Indians a minority because they make up about 1% of the population


To me, that is the point. They don't make up a % of the population. The "they" that I am referring to are the res dwellers. I begion this knowing full well that I may end it in the blue, because anything remotely right wing gets bashed like a baby seal around here, but why don't we ascimilate the american indian? I live in Minnesota currently, and sometimes I feel like standing up in the middle of the Leech Lake band of Ojibwe's multi billion dollar casino and shouting, "Didn't we kick your asses 150 years ago? You bet your war-painted *** I want tax money." It's not like the British Empire. We didn't set up colonies. We conquered them, and sent them packing to the middle of nowhere. Some washington jack-*** was stupid enough to grant them limited autonomy and sign treaties with them. Now, 150 years later, they are a collection of 3rd world countries that could be easily eliminated with a re-integration plan.

Please, flame away and rate me down to nothingness. :)
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#10 Jan 06 2004 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I feel this way:

Yes, there should give some type of reparation to natives for "conquering" them and taking over their lands, destroying their culture and sending their asses packing to the middle of nowhere...and yes, there have been many concessions made and tax breaks given and yadda yadda yadda...but in another way, I have to wonder how long we will be responsible forpaying these reparations? Hundreds of years have passed now, since the landing of ol' whitey on these shores. I really don't know what is best....but the way things are doesn't seem to be the best all around option. Smiley: twocents

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#11 Jan 06 2004 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmm. Where to start. How about here?
Quote:
Please, flame away and rate me down to nothingness. :)

I don't flame people I disagree with, and if I rated down based on lack of information that would be pointless as well. I love the fact that being an adult enables me to dicuss without having to convince. Your feelings of "I want" are very understandable. Disenfranchised people everywhere feel the same way.

Quote:
why don't we ascimilate the american indian?

Well, we're well on the way to extinguishing these cultures, don't worry. Just give it time. We already tried to send them to school to forget their culture and language, so I'm sure given enough time they'll just get bored and throw in the towel like any good people that could care less about their history.

Quote:
It's not like the British Empire. We didn't set up colonies. We conquered them, and sent them packing to the middle of nowhere.


Well, according to the previous quote, we're very much like the British Colonies. Any conquering force is the same, the innate belief that your culture is better, and that if someone lost their people/land/culture well then it's right and good, a sort of evolution because they're better off if they just live how you feel they should. The British were simply dumber and weaker than us and so were the Indians. I get you. What a clean way to look at it. Refreshing.

Quote:
I live in Minnesota currently, and sometimes I feel like standing up in the middle of the Leech Lake band of Ojibwe's multi billion dollar casino and shouting, "Didn't we kick your asses 150 years ago? You bet your war-painted *** I want tax money."

State taxes, which is what Indians don't pay, goes back to maintenance of local roads, schools etc. Rez roads, schools, etc are the trust responsibility of the Federal Government. Indians use casino money to subsidize these same systems, thereby reducing the federal money you or I would pay to support them. Feel free to take that state tax, however, and have the government up your taxes later on. In the meantime, Indians allow non-Indians in an equal state of poverty access to their roads, schools and health centers, with no additional "You're not Indian" fee. Imagine that.

Quote:
Some washington jack-*** was stupid enough to grant them limited autonomy and sign treaties with them.

That would be SEVERAL Washington Jackasses(Wjs). There are many, just like there are many tribes with many different cultures. There are just as many poor trusting bastards that believed the WJs when they signed away their lives and land in an effort to stop the decimation of their loved ones by gunfire and disease.

Quote:
Now, 150 years later, they are a collection of 3rd world countries that could be easily eliminated with a re-integration plan.

I propose this: Go sleep with as many Indian women as you can. As a matter of fact, everyone should sleep with everyone until we are all a nice golden tan, and then we can be a wonderful, homogenized nation with the occasional pink eyes and third nipple. I am hoping that the child support payments will be so plentiful as to completely vacate the rez, and then we can build a mall.

And just for the record, I talk to Hill folk all the time. Indians are what is called a "nonpartisan" issue.

Edited, Tue Jan 6 15:09:26 2004 by Atomicflea
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#12 Jan 06 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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This is a touchy subject, one that I'd rather not get involved in, but what the hey.

On one side, if I had to pay for all the dumb **** my Mom did, I'd be ****** and broke. Well, broke-er. But that is really minimal-izing the issue, since my Mom and I aren't great countries, nor have we ever been. Really this is an issue with Mc D's and the government.

Two or Three things could come of this.

Government says "That's bad, you need to include the Indians or we won't consider you a minority program" -probably won't happen

Government lets it slide, further showing that it's "Ok" to shaft the Indians. - very probable

People work hard at publicizing this and Mc D's changes their decision to avoid bad publicity. - could work, but who's going to do it?

But I feel the Indians have bigger problems than getting scholarships from Mc D's. How many Indians applied for it when they were allowed?

Skeet
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#13 Jan 06 2004 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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This is a touchy subject, one that I'd rather not get involved in, but what the hey.

On one side, if I had to pay for all the dumb **** my Mom did, I'd be ****** and broke. Well, broke-er. But that is really minimal-izing the issue, since my Mom and I aren't great countries, nor have we ever been. Really this is an issue with Mc D's and the government.

Two or Three things could come of this.

Government says "That's bad, you need to include the Indians or we won't consider you a minority program" -probably won't happen

Government lets it slide, further showing that it's "Ok" to shaft the Indians. - very probable

People work hard at publicizing this and Mc D's changes their decision to avoid bad publicity. - could work, but who's going to do it?

But I feel the Indians have bigger problems than getting scholarships from Mc D's. How many Indians applied for it when they were allowed?

Skeet
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#14 Jan 06 2004 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
Hmmmm......

Some company/group/individual/etc decides to give money away and they're flamed for it?

Smiley: oyvey
#15 Jan 06 2004 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't flame people I disagree with, and if I rated down based on lack of information that would be pointless as well. I love the fact that being an adult enables me to discuss without having to convince. Your feelings of "I want" are very understandable. Disenfranchised people everywhere feel the same way.


You then, are a true anomaly here. Well met, though, to be sure. My feelings of "I want" are not, however, related to being disenfranchised. They are symptomatic of being human. More appropriately, People everywhere feel the same way.

Quote:
Well, we're well on the way to extinguishing these cultures, don't worry. Just give it time. We already tried to send them to school to forget their culture and language, so I'm sure given enough time they'll just get bored and throw in the towel like any good people that could care less about their history.


We are no where near extinguishing these cultures. That's why they live in squalor. Mexicans, El Salvadorians, Cubans, Germans, Russian, Swedes, Chinese, Filipinos, and many others manage to maintain their cultures to a degree while still moving in to prominent positions in this country, and relative assimilation.

Quote:
Well, according to the previous quote, we're very much like the British Colonies. Any conquering force is the same, the innate belief that your culture is better, and that if someone lost their people/land/culture well then it's right and good, a sort of evolution because they're better off if they just live how you feel they should. The British were simply dumber and weaker than us and so were the Indians. I get you. What a clean way to look at it. Refreshing.


Cultures grow, cultures flourish, cultures decline, cultures vanish. Welcome to World Civilizations 101. How does this happen, you as? Mostly through cultures growing, cultures conquering, cultures existing, cultures being conquered. It is the way of the world. There is nothing inherently sad or loathsome about the process. Finishing something we started centuries ago seems like a good idea to me. Procrastination for that long has to be a record (unless measured against Islam, which still can't bring itself to reform, or Catholicism, whose reformation did little to eliminate its gross inadequacies).

Quote:
State taxes, which is what Indians don't pay, goes back to maintenance of local roads, schools etc. Rez roads, schools, etc are the trust responsibility of the Federal Government. Indians use casino money to subsidize these same systems, thereby reducing the federal money you or I would pay to support them. Feel free to take that state tax, however, and have the government up your taxes later on. In the meantime, Indians allow non-Indians in an equal state of poverty access to their roads, schools and health centers, with no additional "You're not Indian" fee. Imagine that.


Fortunately, if we do take the state taxes, the government is not likely to raise taxes for too long, as doing so would doom the likely democratic regime to losing its power in the next election, reversing the tax. But, for argument's sake, fine. Don't tax the Indians. Grant gaming licenses to private enterprise on the border of the reservation and give them tax breaks. Threaten that and see how long the "hill people" complain about "I want"-ing a cut. I would also be happy to see them charge a "you're not Indian" fee. That would probably pay the costs of supporting the people who worked at the gas stations and diners on the reservation that go out of business because people drive around them.

Quote:
That would be SEVERAL Washington Jackasses(Wjs). There are many, just like there are many tribes with many different cultures. There are just as many poor trusting bastards that believed the WJs when they signed away their lives and land in an effort to stop the decimation of their loved ones by gunfire and disease.


No argument there.

Quote:
I propose this: Go sleep with as many Indian women as you can. As a matter of fact, everyone should sleep with everyone until we are all a nice golden tan, and then we can be a wonderful, homogenized nation with the occasional pink eyes and third nipple. I am hoping that the child support payments will be so plentiful as to completely vacate the rez, and then we can build a mall.


Go right ahead. I for one find few of them attractive. It's just a personal preference.

Quote:
And just for the record, I talk to Hill folk all the time. Indians are what is called a "nonpartisan" issue.


Ok.
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#16 Jan 06 2004 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some points of clarification:
Quote:
disenfranchised.

I meant financially, but I'll accept the truth that most that most people "want." Even those that sit around all day and smoke pot. They want pot.

Quote:
these cultures

I didn't mean minorities, I was referring to the diverse Indian cultures, but again, most Latinos are mixed-race.

As for everything else, as you said, it's a divergence in our world views, and well, de colores. Big hug for you.
Kudos on not being an *******!Smiley: boozing


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#17 Jan 06 2004 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I meant financially, but I'll accept the truth that most that most people "want." Even those that sit around all day and smoke pot. They want pot.


It does make better sense now.

Quote:
I didn't mean minorities, I was referring to the diverse Indian cultures, but again, most Latinos are mixed-race.


I agree. I was referring to the diverse world cultures. Although, I think if you talked to most Puerto Ricans, they would staunchly defend that they have a culture entirely unique from, say Mexico or Columbia. It's laregely a native people, or indian, thing there though.

World views are funny like that. I would imagine we could find roughly 6 Billion different ones if we took the time to ask them all. :) It's just a pity I can't read spanish. :\
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#18 Jan 06 2004 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to second Madahme. Um... McD's is a private company. They are giving their money away. You, nor I, nor the government have any right to arbitrate how they give their money away or to whom.

I'm pretty sure that the exclusion of Native Americans had nothing to do with racism or whatever you think it may be, and everything to do with cost effectiveness. There's an overhead for every group of people you donate funds to. I'm betting it was simply a matter of a huge difference in numbers of other minority groups versus the number of Natives that just made it less cost effective to include them in the list of people the charity supported.


Of course. This brings up an issue I'm even more concerned with:

Why the **** do we distribute charity money based on race/ethnicity in the first place? The article even goes to point out that Asians as a group are quite well off, but some asian sub-groups are not. Clearly, it's the labeling that's flawed. The assumption that if someone is of a particular backround that they must be in need. It's silly at the core.


Why not just have a charity. Oh, I don't know... For poor people? Maybe not actually worry about their skin color or where their ancestors came from? Seems to me that if we didn't make such a big deal about which group is a minority and which isn't and all that, that maybe we'd actually appreciate a company giving money away instead of condemning them for it.


But that's just my opinion. What do I know?
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#19 Jan 06 2004 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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When I get more time I will elaborate. But the indians should get nadda. ****, I say cut off ALL existing funding.

That, and why aren't smart people included in the program. They are by far and away the smallest minority.

Dark.
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#20 Jan 06 2004 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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That, and why aren't smart people included in the program. They are by far and away the smallest minority.

Reminds me of a story, and a real uplifting one at that.

Once upon a time at my high school, there was a special school for the smart people filled with all sorts of honors and collage classes. Then the budget got cut and the program cancled for sports and the slackers who didn't do work anyway. The End.

Don't know why there's nothing for smart people Dark, seems a waste to give money to teach those who don't want to be taught, but that's how it is.

In regards to the Indians, they aren't that far out. One street down from where I live is one of the reservations, and I don't exactly live all that far out. Very handy though, tax free tabaco and drinks.

Personally, I think they make more on lawsuits there then those casinos or fed money. If you hit one of those free-ranging sheep or cows, were talking a grand plus (for just a sheep). Seems like they try, maybe not successfully though, to take the best of both worlds. They want the land, they want left alone, they want our money and they don't want to pay.
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#21 Jan 06 2004 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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**** em.

Take all the Indians scattered across all the reservations in the US, herd them into North Dakota, convince them to secede, then let the ATF invade and kill them all. Or just let them secede and leave it at that. Canada needs another neighboring country to worry about.
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#22 Jan 06 2004 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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I don't usually take much interest in debates of this type, as they get drawn out and boring, and end up with the people involved merely insulting each other. This one, however, has been very interesting to read. (Thanks Flea and Moeb for keeping to the point and not getting ugly.)

My point of view has swayed back and forth during this thread, and after reading gbaji's post I realized why I had such mixed feelings.

We are taught that everyone is equal and should be treated as such. Then the government singles out races that "deserve" certain things over others. Isn't that a contradiction? Shouldn't charities/scholarships be open to everyone who needs them, despite race? How can we overcome differences if it is constantly pointed out how different we are?

America is and always has been a melting pot. We (except the American Indian) all came from elsewhere.

I also agree what with Moeb said about people holding on to their culture. If you have the desire to, you can. Does this mean that Indians should give up their reservations and join "us"? No. They should do what is right for them, but no one, including them, should be entitled to special treatment.

Just my opinion.
#23 Jan 06 2004 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm betting it was simply a matter of a huge difference in numbers of other minority groups versus the number of Natives that just made it less cost effective to include them in the list of people the charity supported.

I'm betting the groups that get money are inversely proportional to the negative publicity they would recieve should they be excluded. Indians don't have the manpower to ***** about anything. It's one of the same reasons that they're referred to as a minority within minorities. Not enough warm bodies, no voting power.

Quote:
Why not just have a charity. Oh, I don't know... For poor people? Maybe not actually worry about their skin color or where their ancestors came from?

The whole point of the article is that Indians are qualify just as well based on their average annual income. I'm all for helping the poor, since not all minorities need help. I'm much better off than quite a few white folks. However, if you're going to go by the "bootstraps" argument, then not even poor people deserve help, since we all should just make do and haul ourselves out of the mire with our wits and our can-do attitudes. It's a slippery slope.
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#24 Jan 07 2004 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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The thing is, it's hard to feel sorry for a culture which by the time the Europeans arrived hadn't even invented the wheel. If they are destitute and unskilled, whose fault is that? They weren't exactly going anywhere culturally, intellectually, and politically.

/shrugs

Survival of the fittest perhaps.

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#25 Jan 07 2004 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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"Why People Shouldn't Be given 'Free' Money"
Rant by Darkplage

All "Let's support stupid/lazy people funding" should be abolished. They do not 'help' people, only encourage stupid/lazy behaviour. To quote a wise person

A wise person wrote:
Give a dead sh*t money that they have not earned and you will supply them with booze and cigarettes for a day. Make them sell crack to get that money and hopefully they will get a liking for the stuff and you wont have to worry about them after a few months

Poetic licence provided by Poetic licence Inc.

Well. You get the idea.

I do not know that many people under the age of 23 that do not claim some form of government funded financial support. None of those I know DON'T go out every weekend and **** it up against the wall. Thatís right folks, I pay near 48% tax so my friends can go out and get fu*ked up. My parents pay near 48% so my friends can go out and get fu*ked up. (Money they could give to me so I could go out and get fu*ked up.) So I am a little anti help the "Needy" (Read: Want to go clubbing and can't afford to because they don't want to get a full time job because they couldn't imagine having to wake up at 8, go to work till 5, and ONLY go out one night a week.

As far as minorities (Read: People that like throwing around the word "Predigest" "Racism" and "Why are you beating brother with a steal poll") are concerned... Honestly you shouldn't have got me started...

I used to live in Mt Isa. **** hole of the globe. Aboriginals (Hence forth known on these boards as "Abbos") littered the street. Drunk as a wine-o that won the lotto. There were abbo children in hospital, a week old covered in scabies and riddled with disease. Their kids walked around the streets yelling "You fu*k'n white C*nts." throwing rocks at passing cars or buildings, sniffing paint on the streets. On pension day the pubs are filled with them, drinking until they can stumble but a few yards then fall over. (Hence how they littered the streets.)

"But where are all the police during this time?" I hear you ask. "Surly this anti social, destructive, repugnant and unwholesome behaviour isn't tolerated".

Well sadly yes. Because of all the paper work involved with arresting an Abbo, coupled with the discrimination law suits, which are of course, government funded, most don't.

"Why don't they simply pass out and sniff paint at home so tax payers cant see where their money has gone?"

Because their government built houses are continually burnt down. I sh*t you not, these people tear the walls down and burn them in a fire in the middle of their living room. "Why would they do that, that is insane!"

BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS GIVING THEM MONEY BECAUSE SOME FU*K'N GENIUS DECIDED THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, THEY SHOULD BE TREATED BETTER THAN THE REST OF US!

Where is my pay out? I could use some drinking money! I could uses some cash to feed my solvent abuse. A free house would be great! Near immunity to all laws could come in handy when I decide to commit near all crimes bar murder.

"Poor people. They never had a chance! Being brought up like that they could never become a useful part of society and contribute to a community like a civilised human being"

We tried to help... And the bastards went about suing the same government that was funding the law suit!

Then there was a whole heap bull about how we should all apologise for it... ďNational Sorry dayĒI really cant seem to recall kidnapping any children, with the intent of removing them from the above described conditions... Can you? Our Prime minister is a champ because he refuses to say it as well. He didnít do sh*t, and to claim responsibility for it would be ridiculous. I am just sorry that it didnít work.

They should be thankful the Brits found them! I am sure if a nationality with a better work ethic (such as the Japanese), or a nationality with a more... "diverse" menu (Such as the Vietnamese or Chinese) had taken an interest first, they would have been much worse off.

So in conclusion,

"You Abbos have ruined your lands, you shaln't ruin mine".

Fu*ck off and die.

Dark.

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#26 Jan 07 2004 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The thing is, it's hard to feel sorry for a culture which by the time the Europeans arrived hadn't even invented the wheel. If they are destitute and unskilled, whose fault is that? They weren't exactly going anywhere culturally, intellectually, and politically.


No one's asking for compassion. The U.S. Government has a trust obligation with Indians, and they are a federally recognized minority. That is a fact that will only cease to be true if lawmakers decide to revoke the trust, independent of how the population feels. Much like I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but I can't do a **** thing about it since my President can do as he pleases once he is in office. Vote for [link=http://www.**************************************** again once he gets out of jail. He has the same views.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you that 'unskilled' is subjective. I don't think a car mechanic in Iowa in the 50s was unskilled simply because my education surpasses his and my lifestyle and job requirements differ. Indians had their traditional medicine, their agriculture, and a rich spiritual culture. They died from diseases that they had never encountered, same as any organism that had not built up a defense. They had what they needed to live at the time, which is all any culture aspires to. It just happens that now we need more to live.

Hmm... Janklow link won't work since it has a bad word in it. here it is (remove the hyphen):
http://www.di-ckshovel.com/jank2.html


Edited, Wed Jan 7 09:48:03 2004 by Atomicflea
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