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Known /brd Campaign bottersFollow

#1 Aug 10 2008 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
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Normally I wouldn't post the names of players I had some kind of beef with but there's a few campaign battle botters that I think everyone should keep an eye out for:

Siegfried
Pecoco
Recoco

You can notice the tell-tale head movements between battles as their bot program continues to target/de-target the tags NPC. I've personally reported them several times to the GM's as have my friends and the most we've seen is one GM moved Siegfried out of range of the tags NPC. He was back in his spot later that day still running on hit bot. I'm not sure if SE is just ignoring campaign botters until the update or what, but it's been several weeks since we first noticed/reported them and they're still at it. The unfortunate thing is that I believe these are actual players and not RMT. I've seen Pecoco or Recoco a few times in sky with his LS.

Anyone notice any other confirmed /brd botters in Campaign?


~edit: spelling correction


Edited, Aug 10th 2008 9:38pm by ElGatoloco
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#2 Aug 11 2008 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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I rarely hear GM move character to check bots. If GM found someone is botting, they don't need to him to move him around the same map. They can just move them to the GM jail. There are known bots that move character in pre-defined path; that is how fish botters, fish, walk to the right NPC, sell the fish, and walk back to fishing spot and fish.

Interview to SE developers has said that the developers are aware of this problem. In the next VU, there will be sure something done to this.

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 6:31pm by scchan
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#3 Aug 11 2008 at 5:23 PM Rating: Default
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I have no idea why the GM chose to just move the botter a few feet away as it wasn't on my call that he/she did it. Perhaps it was to verify that a bot program was indeed being run without having to wait for the battle to end. I suspect they've either been reported to the special task force and are pending ban or SE is just waiting for the VU and ignoring individual abusers until then. Just letting people know in case they see these folks LFP after the VU. Ultimately the decision to XP with known cheaters is up to the individual but I for one won't invite or even stay in an XP party with one.
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#4 Aug 11 2008 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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First off, I'm a PS2 user and don't know a lot about windower and botting . I do know the basics and it sucks when doing end game and so on. I don't get the whole cheating thing over gear in game, but I guess that's why I'm so gimp. lol

Is there more of a beef with these three people besides someone "Botting" in a campaign?
I ask this because IF someone is "Botting" in Campaign........it doesnt steal claim, prevent you from "getting gear" etc and unlike the players who take their level 15 jobs into Besieged it doesnt contribute to lag because the /brd people are generaelly far from battle. If no, then obviously someone is just bitter about not being able to exploit the easy xp as nicely as the "Botters" can

I don't know the three players and I hope your not ruining someones reputation over something as lame as /brd in Campaign.
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#5 Aug 11 2008 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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There's plenty of threads discussing whether /brd in campaign is an acceptable form of xp. I'm not addressing that issue here. This is more about people using 3rd party software to get xp/gil 24/7 while AFK (some of the cheap Allied Note gear NPC's quite nicely if you had an endless supply of notes). The user agreement doesn't say 'Thou shalt not go /brd in Campaign', however it does clearly state that the use of cheats/cheating programs is prohibited. As to whether cheating for xp is better/worse/on par with cheating to get claims, well I see cheating of any kind as a reduction to the overall game experience. IMO there's two types of players, honest and dishonest.

You're more than welcome to party with/linkshell/befriend people that you know are cheaters, it doesn't bother me if you do. I'm merely informing readers of this thread that here are 3 people cheating in the game. Readers don't even have to take my word for it, they can go find said players and observe their behavior themselves to see if they agree with me. I leave it up to the individual to decide what they want to do with that knowledge.

~edit: Added a thought

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 9:23pm by ElGatoloco
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#6 Aug 11 2008 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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If you go by the honest/dishonest method then you need to get out of any endgame LS because I would bet all my gear that there are people using Windower. Even without the major cheat plugins like extended macro's and whatnot it's still against the user agreement. No idea if you use it, but if so then you fall into the dishonest.

Seriously, who cares if they get easy free xp? They're still not getting as much per hour as they could in a real party (most of the time)...granted with a bot you can theoretically go 24/7 except we all know you'll get booted from the server eventually. Anyone that's left mules up with a bazaar for any period of time can attest to that. They're not harming you or your gameplay in anyway and honestly, at times I'd exploit the easy xp once in a while (while watching a movie or something on the laptop) if not for the fact that I don't have the necessary jobs to do it.

If SE didn't make so many aspects of this game so ridiculously hard to achieve for the normal player, ie obtaining certain gear, then half these issues would be non-issue. Don't get me wrong, I love how hard some things are to do in game. I love the challenge. However I don't like the fact that to get any gear beyond basic stuff for my MNK or DRG requires more time then even I have (and I've had a lot of free time this summer). You're average player almost has to cheat to afford to do a lot of things, be it buying gil, botting or whatever. Doesn't make it right but if you don't often get to play for hours and hours on end and/or don't have access to certain zones and don't have the friends/LS to help you get there, you're more or less screwed.

Is botting OK in my book? Nope. But if they're not hurting my xp or claim then I don't really care and am not gonna worry about it when there's so much more in the game to spend my time thinking about. Now it's time for me to go get a bunch of /dnc people killed. /grin
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#7 Aug 11 2008 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a shame that so many have a "who cares" attitude towards cheating. Personally I'd rather see a PLD with Hauteclaire and think, "good for him", instead of "bot claimed".
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#8 Aug 11 2008 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Dude, most of use would rather be able to think that too. Hell, I'd like to see someone with 2+ relic weapons and think "good job" and not "How much did they spend on gil for those?"..however that's not how it works in online games like this. Sucks but it's the truth.

The reason for the "who cares" attitude isn't because we don't care (thereby making your attitude superior and moral(thats my word of the day lol))...that's right, parenthesis inside parenthesis...it's because at the end of the day, even if RMT/Botters get banned so many just come back that it's not worth getting worked up over. Report what you see and move on. Simple as that.
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#9 Aug 12 2008 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Report what you see and move on. Simple as that.


See original post.
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#10 Aug 12 2008 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Hahaha... take a look at a current /cmap one day if you want a reason why /brd (botting or not) is a bad thing for everyone as a whole.

The beastmen don't get lazy and look for shortcuts to XP, etc.

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#11 Aug 12 2008 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't hurt either when the "easy" mobs are near impossible to solo and the "hard" ones can KO handfulls of people per hit. My mnk just shouldn't get KO'd in one shot with full HP (yeah, I'm bitter lol).

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#12 Aug 13 2008 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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It is a little more understanding for people below level 50 to do /BRD (even it is very very hard to argue that being /BRD is something of game design intent, and SE said they know about this). Below level 50 simply cannot contribute much apart of curing people.

I have more concern with thing like some level 60-70 job subbing BRD. You gain more exp for actually fighting, and for people who mix fighting or self buffing, that can sub a job like WHM or DNC or RDM so NIN so they can avoid taking damage or curing themselves (and Reraise for yourself if you are /WHM). So everyone is subbing sub optimal sub jobs, and had to rely on others if they die or take damage to satisfying their me-me-me greed. That is what I have the MOST problem with. It is nothing more lame to see a BLM74/BRD5 and walk around throwing random nukes and buff themselves with everyone dead on the ground. Of course, we do not deserve to be winning in Campaign if that is what people like to do.

About mobs too hard in Campaign, I do not know what you are doing, but I can even hit the regular grunts with a staff as SMN60. The grunts do not hit especially hard either (40-60 damage per hit damage is small for DDs and mages that are not geared for damage mitigation). Bosses do hit hard, I do acknowledge that. But a regular Campaign grunt is easily tankable by a 60-70 PLD or NIN if they know what they are doing. Yet I see NINs and DDs out there wear full time attacking gear and do not know how to control/avoid the damage taken by themselves. Scorpion Harness is not dead folks.

Anyway, we are losing in Campaign is a little more than people doing /BRD. It also includes mages rather melee when there are like 10 bodies around, people that can tank and do not tank, hide in a corner and ninja solo. And I also feel people underestimated the role of Ops in winning. The critical Ops include supplying resources and intercepting opponent transporters. Yet I feel everyone just want to repair the fortifications (with no outside areas, we do not get to do the suspicions object one :P)

Edited, Aug 13th 2008 1:42pm by scchan
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#13 Aug 13 2008 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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I agree about the mages wholeheartedly. I can tank most of the mini-mobs fairly well as MNK/NIN, but I do need some cures. Last night I tanked 2 seperate gnole type mobs and had to beg for cures because I was down to 600 and less HP (even keeping up with shadows doesn't help on a mob that spams cures for 1500+ hp). I got the cure's a needed, but only after I begged. Worst part is there were 3 mages RIGHT next to me meleeing so I know at least one of them could see me. I understand meleeing helps their exp, but tossing out some cure's while meleeing helps their exp as well.

/rant
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#14 Aug 13 2008 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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/BRD or whatever, the biggest problem with Campaign is it has become official sanctioned I-do-whatever-I-want me-me-me playground. The intent of Campaign is good, but just like other game content, Square-Enix underestimated how bad players are. You cannot trust players to stick to the honor system and have self control.

Rather than thinking, "Hey, I cannot reraise or even cure myself or other as BLM/BRD, it makes no sense" They think "Screw that, it is other people problem if they die" They didn't get "If the other guy die, you will die next" or "We will all get more exp and win the Campaign if you can keep yourself and other alive". What SE really need to add is to some form of "punishment" of keep losing Campaign. Be it like Besieged, that is the ultimate way to fix Campaign.
Quote:

Worst part is there were 3 mages RIGHT next to me meleeing so I know at least one of them could see me. I understand meleeing helps their exp, but tossing out some cure's while meleeing helps their exp as well.


I bet a lot of those mages just hit attack and turn on the TV to watch soap opera and Beijing Olympics...

Edited, Aug 14th 2008 1:57am by scchan
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#15 Aug 13 2008 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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At first I tried tanking NMs in Campaign, assuming that people would help keep the tank alive, but I could not have been more wrong.

Now, I always go PLD/RDM and pull a regular mob from the crowd and solo it.
I pull it a safe distance from the cluster, not way out of the fight though, so if people come over to help kill it it's not a problem.

What does drive me crazy is when I'm soloing something, and someone comes over and spams everything they have and lock hate down on them, forcing me to either let them die or use all my MP keeping them alive, meaning that I'm vulnerable with no MP. (Not a bid deal if they're a job that can also solo the mobs, but that's never been the case with me)
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#16 Aug 14 2008 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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I usually see only 3-4 people doing /BRD campaign. So even I am not a fan of /BRD campaign, I would not say that is the biggest problem why we are losing.

As a rant about tanking in Campaign... I tank a lot as THF or NIN in Campaign, but nothing worse to see a worthy PLD or NIN just hack the enemy I am attacking and do not help tanking the thing, or go grab another thing that they are capable of tanking and go tank it. But sometimes often mages take a lot of blame like that -- mages melee and go AFK, does not even try to enfeeble the enemy, feed TP to the mob (making the mob even harder to tank!), and letting whoever tanking to die. And that reinforces people that can tank not to tank, and let their lazy fingers to kick in and go melee and then do not pay attention to hope to grab some easy exp.

People who tried to do it right does earn more in Campaign, but people are who are being lazy out there are grabbing comparable amount. I know it is politically incorrect to say, but it reminds me "homeless" people that are begging as much money as people who get paid for doing real work.

Edited, Aug 14th 2008 2:21pm by scchan
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#17 Aug 14 2008 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I do campaign battles in bastok markets [s] quite a bit, and I do them as a drg/whm, which actually is a very effective healer for it.

If you're there and see me doing so, send a tell or invite and I'll keep those of you who actually know what they're doing during a Campaign Battle alive.

as for the botters, it doesn't seem to be too bad in Bastok, there's usually 3 of them standing by the entrance.. Doesn't make it any better though.
#18 Aug 14 2008 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
The main problem I have is that eventually they're going to want to do something with those jobs outside of Campaign, and I might be there with them. I don't want to party with a level 75 who has absolutely no idea what they're doing or is really good at knowing the theory but can't apply the practice to save their (or my) life.

It wouldn't bother me at all if there was no chance of me interacting with them (and they don't by far simply hang out in towns, you can see them in lots of campaign areas, the smarter ones don't go near towns as it's easier to get caught), but things like that make me even more leary of using my orb first in something like a BCNM or KSNM or doing things with strangers, which is something you need to be able to overcome in an online gaming environment.
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#19 Aug 14 2008 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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drg/whm


DRG/WHM kicks **** :P
Quote:

The main problem I have is that eventually they're going to want to do something with those jobs outside of Campaign, and I might be there with them. I don't want to party with a level 75 who has absolutely no idea what they're doing or is really good at knowing the theory but can't apply the practice to save their (or my) life.


Fail to understand that /BRD is nonsense when you can contribute more and get more exp is already show a lack of skill. If people are doing that for lazy I-can-watch-TV exp, then it shows a lack of understanding of why they are playing the game begin with.
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#20 Aug 15 2008 at 5:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with Anaxagoras. They annoy me when I see them, usually because they are in my way to the tag NPC. But I'm more concerned with when they are all of lvl sufficient to want to do other things with actual people and have no skill.

On a different note, I'm always more than willing to party up in a campaign. I'm usually pup/something so I can have my puppet set to cure party members. Or I'm 42sch since I am usually not in a party and I feel I can help more people with that job than my pup. While low i have some nice healing power...and raise:)

Just send me a /t.

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#21 Aug 15 2008 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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Just yesterday I saw a former Japanese member of my Limbus group doing nude MNK73/BRD36 in Windurst Water (S) for you know what. I have done 3000+ exp Campaign as DNC 60-something. He makes baby Jesus cry. Oh yeah, he wants to watch Team Japan in Beijing and gain free exp the same time. Smiley: glare

Just a few moments ago, I heard someone saying "Hey, I can get exp (I will not disclose the job, but it is high enough for sure to contribute well) and read comic book the same." People are actually proud of doing that o_O

Quote:

On a different note, I'm always more than willing to party up in a campaign. I'm usually pup/something so I can have my puppet set to cure party members. Or I'm 42sch since I am usually not in a party and I feel I can help more people with that job than my pup. While low i have some nice healing power...and raise:)


Are you in the Windurst area? If yes, I will be glad to team up.


Edited, Aug 15th 2008 10:19am by scchan
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#22 Aug 15 2008 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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#23 Aug 15 2008 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yup. I'm in Windy waters (s). Windy forever!
#24 Aug 15 2008 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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scchan wrote:
As a rant about tanking in Campaign... I tank a lot as THF or NIN in Campaign, but nothing worse to see a worthy PLD or NIN just hack the enemy I am attacking and do not help tanking the thing, or go grab another thing that they are capable of tanking and go tank it. But sometimes often mages take a lot of blame like that -- mages melee and go AFK, does not even try to enfeeble the enemy, feed TP to the mob (making the mob even harder to tank!), and letting whoever tanking to die. And that reinforces people that can tank not to tank, and let their lazy fingers to kick in and go melee and then do not pay attention to hope to grab some easy exp.


And that's the problem that I initially had with Campaign.
I ran in, assuming that by tanking the mobs that I would be supported, and after dying over and over and sitting around waiting for raises and weakness, I just got tired of it.

I'd much rather /RDM and grab my own mob, then whoever wants can help me kill it, but if I can't solo it I don't grab it. It gets too discouraging dying so much and seeing multiple mages standing around not curing anyone.
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#25 Aug 15 2008 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Like it has been said before, campaign has become a "me-me" affair. I am not so shocked to hear about players enjoying the fact they can xp while reading or watching television, because this game has become more selfish as time went by.

It's people like them that I choose to do things ls-only or with friends, even with meripo. I like every aspect of this game to be enjoyable. Not me yelling at players in an xp party because they spent so much time solo or in campaign, that they have no idea how to play this game. FFXI is NOT a solo game, it is a social game. Every aspect of this game beyond level 10 requires a group effort. If they want to play a game but not really play it, go play Lineage 2. You can bot to your hearts content in that game and the game's makers advocate the practice. Go play WoW, certainly they will fit in with that environment.

What these botters are doing may not seem wrong. "It doesn't affect anyone else!" It is. It effects everyone. It affects their performance in socialized events such as xp, merits, end-game, everything. It makes them a liability to the community. It makes them less a player.

This game is experiencing a decline in quality, and soon everyone will have to pay the price.
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#26 Aug 15 2008 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing I can say about the solo aspect is that if you are a BST or PUP you almost have to solo a lot of the time because so many morons think those jobs are of no use in parties. The day I got a random invite on BST without my flag up I looked out my window for flying pigs. Just because someone solo's a lot doesn't mean they can't do well in a party type atmosphere, however it could mean their gear is lacking. If I see one more BST in full AF in a campaign battle I'm gonna start mpk'ing them just because I can. What's one more death when I die 3-4 times a battle anyway.
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#27 Aug 16 2008 at 7:20 AM Rating: Decent
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The only thing I can say about the solo aspect is that if you are a BST or PUP you almost have to solo a lot of the time because so many morons think those jobs are of no use in parties.


Nine out of ten players are copy cats and only know how to follow the cookbook or take the easy way out.

Thumbs up in people who actually try. And too many people lower themselves to see who is the worse rather to see who look toward the sky.
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#28 Aug 16 2008 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I've recently started /BRD'ing in campaign until I get my DNC to 35 so my MNK can sub it. I prefer to melee in campaign but I'm sick of the dumb WHM/RDM/PLD or any job that can cast raise, but doesn't until a wave or the entire battle has finished.

Hopefully the update that SE is doing in september will stop /BRD'ing and make people turn to mass raise botting for exp lol. Once I'm MNK/DNC at least I can keep myself alive for a wave and debuff mobs too.
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#29 Aug 16 2008 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Diamondis wrote:
I've recently started /BRD'ing in campaign until I get my DNC to 35 so my MNK can sub it. I prefer to melee in campaign but I'm sick of the dumb WHM/RDM/PLD or any job that can cast raise, but doesn't until a wave or the entire battle has finished.

Hopefully the update that SE is doing in september will stop /BRD'ing and make people turn to mass raise botting for exp lol. Once I'm MNK/DNC at least I can keep myself alive for a wave and debuff mobs too.



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#30 Aug 17 2008 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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D: I'm a good elf ; ;

If it's any consolation I regularly get killed by the people who MPK /BRD botters >.> I'm cool with it, it's annoying but I understand why they do it. **** before SE patched MPK I used to kill many a bot and gilseller :3
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