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Teleports Taxi's >< overpriced !Follow

#1 Jan 17 2005 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Some of you might have seen the rioting in Jeuno regarding Teleports this weekend. I do apologize for this, that was not my intention.

It started out like this...

I come to Jeuno (was waiting on a FENNIR party). And I see this Paladin (Who shall remain nameless) start shouting how there are no tele-taxi's at the time and that there should always be one here. I hear someone else tell this Paladin that Whm's are'nt here to serve you 24/7. He began to agrue otherwise and that, yes they were.

Well, (being the WHM that I am) that pissed me off. So I decided to give him a teleport for 1k (I do not normally charge for tele's, if I am in Jueno and my HP is there and someone ask for a tele, I would be more than happy to give them one, free of course).

Anyways... He declined the 1k and was shouting for a tele. I then started shouting that I would now give teleports for 2k - 5k. Just do get him a little pissed.

Well then this started a debate in Jeuno, people then started saying well look at the prices of spells now. Everything else has risen in price, why should'nt tele's. I agreed with that in a way. Why should everything else rise, and not teleports? After all tele-ports are more for conveinance, than the other things like gear and such. And people will pay more for convenience!

MY reasons for doing this now changed, Instead of getting back at that Paladin, I thought of the future WHM's who whould never be able to afford (raise2 or raise3, or any of the already over priced spells). If I was able to raise Tele's then they would have a chance.

Then I start to hear: well what if people started to charge for Provokes!!! This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. A teleport cannot be compared to with provoke. Provoke is not a convenience. It is a viable ability use to party. END of discussion on that.

Then the name calling begun, people calling me an idiot and such. All I would say is: there is no need for name calling.

My LS, some where laughing some were not, saying this will give a bad reputation to you and to your LS, so I stoped for that reason. I do not want people to think of me as a trouble starter.

Anyways I just wanted to apologize to those of you who, were in that this weekend.


Oh and if your wondering, I could have made, in about an hour and half, about 40kto 50k, If I took those peoples money who wanted teleports for 2k-5k. Yes that is right people actually were going to pay. But when they began to trade me to give me gil. I told them that was not necessary it was free of charge.
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#2 Jan 17 2005 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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HAHA!

(It's still JUST A GAME, people. Even if they never announced it in a POL update recently.)

Give em hell, yo.

PS: I can't never find ya when I'm looking for tele, Duncan. I'm always being called off to some godforsaken place, LOL. Apparently, so are you. Smiley: wink2
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#3 Jan 17 2005 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: it's duplicating posts for some reason. :(

Edited, Mon Jan 17 14:20:43 2005 by Tarmus
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#4 Jan 17 2005 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: glitch of some sort

Edited, Mon Jan 17 14:19:40 2005 by Tarmus
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#5 Jan 17 2005 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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i was at server forums.. 'contents' and saw this, i had to read. what price is usual for mea/dem/holla/altepa/yhoat? on odin it's 500 for those and 1k for vhazl. I usually offer 500 and pay 600 just cuz i like whm's. I can't imagine trying to get those 10k+ spells with 500 gil every 5 min or so. when if they could farm as well as some other jobs they could make 2k in a single drop.
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#6 Jan 17 2005 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually, I wouldn't blame you if you did want to charge that much. It's really just a matter of what people are willing to pay. If you wanted to charge that much and people accepted than that would be the new price until somebody came along and offered it for less. I always thought the reason it was that cheap is because of the competition. So . . . lack of competition would give you the ability to charge that much if you wanted too. Those who think that it's their god given right to get a tele whenever they feel like it are just immature. It's somebody doing a service in exchange for gil (usually). That does not entitle them to it whenever they want, for however much they want. WHM's offer it, the rest can take it or leave it, but don't complain about it. I personally don't think that you did anything wrong.

(PS - I'm not on your server the but headline caught my attention ^^)
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#7 Jan 17 2005 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Duncan, you should see the nonsense I started in the whm forum about this... you've inspired people on other servers rotf. I exagerated the story just a little bit, it's goten pretty humorous reponse.

Edited, Mon Jan 17 16:00:23 2005 by Akatosh
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#8 Jan 17 2005 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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I really hate to say this, but I am whm all the time, rarely switching, and I just cant see using 500gil teleports as an efficient way to make gil. People have come to the point of harasment almost in order to get teleports. I had one guy even demand it from me, saying I should siwetch my hp to the city i was in(was in windy at the time, hp is always jeuno) just to convenience him when i said i will not do them outside of jeuno for the reason that my hp is jeuno and im not walking back over to windy.

in any case, people are getting ruder about it, and prices are going up. I may try to set the trend moreso also with higher prices, the thing is, how much should those prices be?

Dem holla and Mea for 1000, altep and yhato for 1500 and Vhazl for 2000 maybe?
I want higher prices, but i do not want to overdo it.
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#9 Jan 17 2005 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Charge all you want i have my Teleport rings bwuahaha .. dammit nevermind ... i can only use them when i'm my RDM .. stupid lvl 65 crap .. heh. And if you all start charging more for tele's, you'll find more and more people riding the big yellow chicken. The only Tele I would ever pay for nowadays is Tele-Vhazal ... Walking to X just takes forever ... even then, if I need to go to Xacabard, I can always Outpost warp there. The one thing I hate to be is rushed, so if the extra five minutes riding a <usually less expensive> choco is going to make an EXP or any other PT hate me over grabbing a quicker, yet more expensive Tele - then i'll go find something else better to do lol. yanno what... charge what you all want, i only play like once or twice a month now anyway - stupid RL responsibilities >.<
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#10 Jan 17 2005 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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Ok when im playing as thf and im shouting for a tele for 10 min i see an open window of opurtunity. I change to whm and shout mea/holla/dem 700 gil, yhoat/altep 1k. I'm not just gonna sit around and leave a window of gil open like that to anybody ^^.
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#11 Jan 17 2005 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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Daniepwils wrote:
I come to Jeuno (was waiting on a FENNIR party). And I see this Paladin (Who shall remain nameless) start shouting how there are no tele-taxi's at the time and that there should always be one here. I hear someone else tell this Paladin that Whm's are'nt here to serve you 24/7. He began to agrue otherwise and that, yes they were.


^_^ I think that was me who was arguing with him about WHM's being your personal bitct. It just irks me to think that people actually think like that.

1) I am not anyones Tele-bitch
2) You want Dem so bad, get on a freakin choco.
3) Telling the WHM's off is not a real good way to get a port

I'm a 60WHM, and I know I have avoided Tele-Taxing like the plague. Its boring, and for 500G, its not worth it. PLUS, there ARE asshats out there who run away before they pay you. Thank you cheapass, you just got away with a free port. Had you probably asked me, I would have done it free anyway, but you wanted to be a moron and run away. {Congratulations!} You get a cookie.

I wouldn't mind the prices being upped. 1k for the regular (Mea, Dem, Holla), 1.5k for Altep and Yhoat, and 2k for Vahzl.

But hey, its an idea...
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#12 Jan 18 2005 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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After level 40 it's not worth it for me to teleport people. I can literally make 30-50k an hour crafting (depending on AH prices) while watching TV. If I actively work at it I can make 2 or 3 times that an hour. Doing teleports and waiting for mp regen; if I get full parties with all the peoplel going to the same place(who are all actually ready to go), I can make 10-15k/hour. So which would you choose?

When I craft I don't have to listen to "I don't have any gil, can I have a free teleport?" even though I asked for money up front. I don't have to wait for people to actually come to me or go find them after they have joined the party. I don't have to worry about people not having the crystal, ect.

I teleport my friends and LS mates for free, just about anytime they ask. If I am at a crystal and you ask me for a teleport I will probally give you one for free too. But I rarely offer teleports anymore even for gil. It's for the same reason I rarely raise people anymore, the people who get my time and effort rarely seem to appreciate it.
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#13 Jan 18 2005 at 3:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Teles are a Gift...for a small chump of change you can get somewhere on the map within mins....rather than pay 1k+ for a choco in jeuno and stare at a chocos butt.....the same is with rank 5, after having it for months i cant imange riding a choco for 10+ mins getting to jeuno or to a city, i could not survive..enjoy you non tele classes and say thank you to the Next WHM that teles you! btw..whms keep you alive too!!
/thank you WhiteMages
ooo btw Duncan likes little Tataru boys!!!!

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#14 Jan 18 2005 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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when tele'g was the only way i had to make gil, i actually enjoyed it to a certain degree, i usually ended up chatting more than tele'g tho, kinda killing the big gil-making scheme >.< the only ppl i really tele now are ls members, friends and parties i'm in. it takes way too long to make a decent chunk of change tele'g (for my gabby butt anyway). i've seen the debate over charging for tele'g a million times, and for crying out loud, get over it :/ i've seen the competion between whm's to pick up the business of tele'g, too. not pretty. ppl who cut the price of teles, give away free teles in shout...it gets nasty and who needs that?
after reading this thread and bringing back these memories, i remember why i turn /shouts off, especially in jeuno.
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#15 Jan 18 2005 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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Duncan,

very cool!!!! You did what some of can only dream about. You started a revolution. i read the entire post in the Whm forums... and all I can say is WOW!!! While everyone is running around brandishing their war hammers and clubs i think I'll hide in my mog house. Inflation being what it is and scroll's costing what they do i can see the Whm side of the story and since I am spell challanged(melee player) I can see the other side also. I have always tried to be polite to everyone especially ppl that raise or heal me, but from some of the comments in the Whm forum it seems that others look upon Whm as a healing/raising/teleport bitch.--Not cool-- Come on people Whm are players like you, have the same wants/needs you do. They are not mules or npc's put their to make your life easier. Ok time to get biblical--Do unto others.... remember that one?

Even if tele prices dont go up I hope this revolution does the worlds some good. Good job Duncan, everything needs to shaken up once in a while even if all it does is shake off the dust.
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#16 Jan 18 2005 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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I've been gone for a couple of months now. Had to take care of real life for a change, but now I'm back and not suprised that this topic is back up for discussion. I am all for raising prices, if it would get more people to do tele'g, go for it. When more WHM start doing tele's again, the price will naturally go back down. It's standard economics. If there's only 1 whm in a city doing tele's he can charge whatever he wants for them (within reason) and there are people that will pay it. With my airship pass it costs me 200-400g to get to any major city, but what if I want to lvl a job (10-15) at the dunes? I might as well stay where I'm at, change jobs and get a tele and save the time; instead of running from the city to the dunes and risking agro. I'm too low to outpost tele, too low to choco, yet could afford 1k just to save the time. That's all a tele really is to me, just a way to get closer to the dunes, or a faster trip to Altepa (even though I love runnin down the tunnel).

As for WHM not being able to farm, hit me up. I've never had a problem bringing a WHM to farm with me. I actually prefer to have a WHM with me. I split everything down the middle, mainly because while I'm killing whatever we're farming, they're simply keeping me alive and taking away all the downtime (I like to farm things that can kill me). Though I don't see why a whm couldn't farm on their own, just killing lesser mobs either for direct gil or stackables or NPC sales. I guess it all depends on your drive.

On another note, I tip when I get tele's. I also tip my NIN blink tank. I know the scrolls/tools are not cheap and if they're helping me do what I want to do, then I'm gonna help them back.
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#17 Jan 18 2005 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some basic ground rules.

Teleportation is not guaranteed.
Other classes cannot do it. It's restricted to us and is one of the ways we are useful. Frankly, there do not need to be teleport spells in this game; FFXI could make you chocobo or airship everywhere. It's a benefit that they exist at all.


Questing a Scroll doesn't mean we're your slaves.
We either quest the scrolls up or we buy them from people who did the quest. The exchange of Our Gil for Your Scroll is a fair trade - we are paying for the time and effort it took for you to get the scroll and list it.

I'm glad that you made a scroll available so some WHM could cast their magic. That doesn't make the WHM your bitch. You were paid. That is the limit of your compensation.


Selling teleports in town is a common convention - You are not entitled.
It does not have to occur, isn't in the ToS, etc. Some White Mages offer teleports because they're new to the spell and enjoy being useful. Some offer because they're genuinely nice people who want to aid everybody equally. Most who do it are doing it because it's a low-risk way to make a profit on your time - there's gil involved, there's an incentive here.

WHM teleporters have become a staple of most towns but by no means and in no circumstances are they guaranteed. We've all been stranded before when no WHM is available anywhere in the region. Sometimes, that's how it goes.

Teleports do not have to be available. WHMs make them available because of the profit involved. You've got money; they've got a renewable resource; there's a trade of money for service that can be performed.


Teleport pricing is a function of convention and of the free market.
The prices tied to teleports are arbitrary. On our server, Dem/Mea/Holla run 500g; Yhoat runs 700g; Vazhl runs 1,000g.

Why is there a tiered price structure? It doesn't "cost" the WHM more to go to Vazhl over Holla, no? Especially if you're HP'd on Jeuno's MH door - just warp home, step in, step out, and your MP is totally refreshed. It doesn't take more time to cast the spell. It isn't at all different from the others.

So why does it cost more?
...because it's always been listed for 1k in the past.

The funny thing about the Free Market is that pricing is affected by two things, and two things only.

1) Supply - Is a teleport available?
2) Demand - Are people seeking? Have they been for some time?

If you're the only porter for miles around and people have been waiting for half an hour, they'll start offering 1k, 2k, 5k for a teleport to anywhere you can name. This is because supply is low and demand is exceptionally high. Conversely if you've got ten WHMs in town and nobody is seeking teleports, prices are crap - supply is high, demand is low. Price is the magic point where those two forces meet.


If white mages band together and begin to unilaterally raise prices (forming a cartel), they could indeed up the going rate for a teleport. If they were smart, they'd raise it until the high Price caused Demand to slack off. (That's how real economies work, by the way.)

This seems like a completely bad thing, but there are some benefits worth mentioning.

- Imagine never having to wait for a teleport again!
If teleporting was actually profitable, you can be certain that Jeuno would always have mages handy, as would each of the starting towns. If it was profitable enough, you might find WHMs stationed at bizarre locations around the world, offering teleports to anywhere for 10k a head. Stuck deep in Boyadha? Maybe a WHM will choose to make it their home, if there's a profit involved.

- Prices probably won't go as high as you think.
The old adage of "sell cheaply to many" rings true in the ears of many a businessman. If prices are high and demand is suffering, expect a WHM price-war to break out, bringing the tele-costs back down rapidly.

- WHMs are no longer poor!
A WHM who isn't dirt-poor is capable of affording Erase. They're capable of buying appropriate food and wearing good gear for their level. When they go to XP, they'll be better fed, better equipped, and a good deal happier than they would previously. WHMs will become an economic force again, instead of living off the scraps tossed to them by passersby.


Lots of interesting stuff to consider here. Think about it.
#18 Jan 18 2005 at 3:06 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
So why does it cost more?
...because it's always been listed for 1k in the past.


One thing you missed on this. While it has been listed like that in the past, the general understanding is that people that are getting tele'd to these areas are going to be of a higher level and thus be able to afford a higher price.

In addition, Altepa normally runs 1k.


Other than those 2, very nice write-up.
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#19 Jan 18 2005 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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double post >.<

Edited, Tue Jan 18 15:23:08 2005 by exjimmi
#20 Jan 18 2005 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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altep is 700 usually, i know thats what i charge

intersting topic by the way. I would love to see a WHM union form in a way to raise costs. No other class can really complain since its our right to offer them in the first place. Its up to the whms now about to raise, or not to raise.

Duncan, we need to kill that tree NM again just for the fun of it. Serket is getting old ^^
#21 Jan 18 2005 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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LOL That tree kicked my butt, Thank god that Ranger was near^^ It was fun though.
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#22 Jan 18 2005 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The one thing you forgot to think about Wing, was if you start charging more for Tele's, people who sell certain Job specific spells like Erase, will know that they can get more money out of the WHM's, which in turn will encourage more Online Gil buying, and make inflation even worse. Instead of trying to INFLATE prices, maybe we should concentrate on keeping inflation down. I've never charged for a warp II, and when i actually lvl my whm to tele lvl, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't charge for tele's when i had nothing else better to do. It kinda makes me sad that a video game brings out the same greed and cut-throat action that you would expect from the real world - when most of us play the game to escape such.

*Edit* Wow - yet again, rate downs on the brutal truth, amazing.

Edited, Wed Jan 19 06:46:35 2005 by Bombard
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#23 Jan 18 2005 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I laughed, but hey if prices go up maybe I'll actually do tele-shouts (honestly I've seen few mages post-36 advertise teles [and maybe that's why Yhoat, Altep, and Vahzl cost more].

Anyway WHM get chewed out about our bitching about Raise III passing 1.7m (nearly triple the price in less than one month), yet as everything else rises in price, teleports have stayed the same since day 1.
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#24 Jan 19 2005 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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lol i would do this....but then people would hate me ^^;

Im lvl 49, not 45, lol need to change that
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#25 Jan 20 2005 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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There are a few reasons people charge more for altep/yhoat and vahzl, other than those already mentioned:

1. Teleports to these areas will put the teleporter at risk of death every time they go. Who knows whether there's a mob of antica waiting at the altep crystal or a few demons withing sniffing range of the xarcabard crystal? This is the main reason for the 3 levels of pricing.

2. Demand for altep/yhoat/vahzl is stronger... not that the're are more requests for these, just that those that DO request these see walking to those areas as a LOT more inconvienient than walking to Mea/Dem/Holla. Someone looking for a tele-vahzl is gonna pay whatever they need to pay, so they don't have to hike there.

I did some teleport service action for a while when i first got whm to 36, and then some more when i got 38, but it wasn't enough profit to be worth my time. I would go back to it if the prices raised, i suspect, but i'd rather they didn't, 'cause i use the service a lot more than i provide it. (maybe i'll do mea/dem/holla more when i'm blm 72/whm36)
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#26 Jan 20 2005 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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2k-5k? Wow. Duncan, I'm glad i'm in your linkshell. ;)
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#27 Jan 25 2005 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry to resurrect an old topic.

Yup, it's too bad everyone seems to think they're entitled to this or that.

I'm a THF and posted a topic on the WHM forum a few weeks ago about how the price of teles DOES need to increase to help cover WHM expenses. Selfishly I'd like to see them increase simply so I can find a tele when I need one (e.g. if teles doubled in price, a lot more WHM would use them as a source of income).

Eventually, one of 2 things will happen:
1) Tele prices will go up
2) The days of tele-taxi are numbered

I'm an impatient basterd and the last thing I want to do is ride the big yellow birds anywhere.

|Teleport-Mea| |Teleport-Dem| |Teleport-Holla| 1K
|Teleport-Altep| |Teleport-Yhoat| 1.5K
|Teleport-Vahzl| 2K

|Yes, Please| ;)
#28 Jan 25 2005 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Duncan,
Oh that was fun what you did...hahaha....I thougth you were just wasting time...PLD was probably in a hurry to go somewhere and spilled his random rant...dont have to take everything seriously man.
Anyway, Someone said , whm doesnt have to raise...so i had to say something...which i said, if whm doesnt have to raise, then war wont have to tank...of course some punk arse kid had to say something to contradict that...he said NO, WAR DOES NOT HAVE TO TANK!! provoke is there for backup tank....i didnt wanna get into some nitpicking silly argument...But i found the whole thing amusing..so i shouted this

[Black Mage] [Looking for Party] [Casting Spell.] [No, Thanks]
[Attack] [Yes, Please]

that cracked a few laughs and kinda ended the silly arguments...anyway, i love that shout....:)....
#29 Jan 25 2005 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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I hit the roof when he said TELEPORTS ARE WHMS JOBS.
NO they are not our jobs, for people outside of a party.

When other people were refering to WHM's not raising, they meant outside of a party... I don't see how people can even compare Tanking, provoking, etc, etc, to teleports and raises (outside of a party); you can't they are two totally different things.


The way I look at it is....any spell that I have is my partys as well, whatever they need (mind you, that makes sense). However when you hear WHM's say then we won't raise, I think they are refering to outside of a party.
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#30 Jan 25 2005 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Tue Jan 25 18:16:01 2005 by JaysenX
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#31 Jan 25 2005 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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<.< Well, I still support Duncan for his decision. I was there, I saw it... heck ^^;; I was part of it (that guy is damn lucky I wasn't WHM at the moment... was PLD and didn't really feel like yelling at someone when I wasn't even the right job)

^^v I still have yet to see the Tele-Prices raise any, but hey, who knows, it may in time.

Until then, I'll still probably be giving them for free also, seeing as farming is more lucrative then porting.
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#32 Jan 25 2005 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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i agree with duncan

i also saw some random melees yelling at whms in general and telling me i was there for him to tele and its my job and how expensive my gear is and bla bla bla.I got annoyed as some have you might have seen i ended up ranting for two hours in jueno. >.< It was fun

Edited, Tue Jan 25 22:10:30 2005 by exjimmi
#33 Feb 02 2005 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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all i gotta say is the more you charge the greedier people get, and if they have to they will find other means of obtaining gil (even if it means the net)

i say keep prices at the 500, 750,1K range like its been
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#34 Feb 02 2005 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally solved this problem, I've now tell people who ask "I don't teleport anymore". I used to offer teleports all the time; especially when I was crafting, it was a nice break. But too many "I don't have any gil" or "Can I pay you later" messages after I invited them to my party killed the enjoyment, after all people saw my shout. Why do I have to ask players waiting for teleport for the gil over and over?

I have given free teleports in the past it's not a gil issue, it's a respect issue. I as WHM worked to get the ablity to give teleports, I quested for the scrolls solo(except for Yhoter. Sksmokes is true friend) and I leveled my job and my skills. What I get in return was "that's too much gil", "Why are we waiting", "What no free protect/shell with my free teleport?".

I now see people calling for teleport for hours in most cities. If you get a teleport out of Jueno during the day you are very very lucky. But hey that's how the community wants it right? Everyone for themselves and put the screws to people at the AH.

But sadly I don't think that people see any real valuse in teleport. They all want it on demand but they don't want to pay for it. So what I see is that like me less and less WHM will offer telport as the game goes on. Remember 6 months ago you had to turn shout off in Lower Jeuno because of all the teleport spam, when a dozen people were offering teleports? Well now you better have shout turned on so you don't miss the shout when it happens.

(sort of off topic)
BTW I used to raise anyone I saw dead, now I usually just keep going unless I'm in a good mood. I persoanlly always offer 1k when I get raised outside a party(it's easily worth 1k not to havbe to run back from the homepoint). But I can't remeberanyone offering me so much as a crystal for a raise in over 6 months. So generally I don't raise anymore either.

I am almost level 50 and all the WHM JSE(job specific equipment) is obscenely priced. Having looked at the armour for some time now prices have at least tripled since December(when I bought my Holy Breastplate for about 40k). The weapons are no better Light and Dark staves are now almost 300k each and there are 15 of each in the AH today (in Dec there were 4 of each and they were 90-120k). The Apollo and Pluto staves are even worse(+1 versions of light and dark) close to a million each. Good level 50 armour and weapons will probally cost me 2-3 million gil( the best armour would be 10 million at least).
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#35 Feb 03 2005 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Actually Karit, the staffs are still cheap compared to 6months ago. They were 300k+, the +1's were anywhere from 500k+. They droped in price, because everyone and their mother was growing ores.


LOL I seem to have a troll that is following me in this forum, oh well, keep the rate downs coming.

Edited, Thu Feb 3 15:41:31 2005 by Daniepwils
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VIVA LE MAGE BLANC >> see post >> VIVA LE MAGE BLANC >> see post >> http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=37&mid=1105987193254834440&num=14
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