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#1 Sep 02 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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The few times I've been able to get past the 1017 I have been working on THM. I'm enjoying it, but not sure if I am playing it properly. I went through Sash twice and thought I was doing well enough. And by that I mean nobody was critical of how I was playing. I slept what I could and alternated bliz/ fire. By doing so I never ran out of mp. Then I noticed a shout where another THM was trying to get a group and he was boasting that he was better than your average THM. I'm sure he was probably just running his mouth, but it did make me wonder if I'm not cutting it.

Thoughts?
#2 Sep 02 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Sounds like you were doing it right. He was likely just trying to get a party and being a troll while doing it.
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#3 Sep 02 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Clearly, he never forgets keeping his DoTs up. This is something I do constantly.
#4 Sep 02 2013 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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At your level (seemingly mid-late teens), the fact that you are using sleep regularly automatically puts you above most THM I've seen.

Your "rotation" at this stage is pretty simple:
Fire I > repeat until OOM -> Transpose -> Blizzard I -> Thunder (optional, but overall potency is > Blizz I) -> Blizzard I until Transpose is off CD -> Transpose -> Fire I -> repeat.

Blizzard II is PBAoE, mainly useful for the Bind effect (+ FATE, where you can't get casts off). Fire II is also AoE, but based on target. Use it once to get Astral Fire II up, then return to Fire I (unless it is trash you & tank are comfortable spamming it on). Thunder I/II is really optional until Thundercloud, but I would try (THM in P3) to get it up in the Umbral Ice cycle.

Long story short, at this stage, if you are a) sleeping regularly, b) not blowing up mobs with Fire II before tank has aggro, and c) willing to use Cure/Physick on a tank that is in a spot of trouble, you are safely above average.
#5 Sep 03 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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You already know what sleep is.

You are now better than 80% of the THMs and BLMs out there currently.
#6 Sep 03 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Basically what he said, get used to this and you'll be in good shape for later on when things get more complicated and more destructive. My only addendum would be, if a mob is going to live for at least 12 more seconds, toss Thunder in your Umbral cycle. That's the point where a Thunder I > Blizz I for the global cooldown used. (and Thunder II only needs 9 seconds.) And then once you get Thundercloud enjoy rolling instant electric death.

I had planned on making SMN my main, but after playing around with my BLM to get the class quests done I really think I might choose it to focus on.
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#7 Sep 03 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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carmelita wrote:
At your level (seemingly mid-late teens), the fact that you are using sleep regularly automatically puts you above most THM I've seen.

Your "rotation" at this stage is pretty simple:
Fire I > repeat until OOM -> Transpose -> Blizzard I -> Thunder (optional, but overall potency is > Blizz I) -> Blizzard I until Transpose is off CD -> Transpose -> Fire I -> repeat.

Blizzard II is PBAoE, mainly useful for the Bind effect (+ FATE, where you can't get casts off). Fire II is also AoE, but based on target. Use it once to get Astral Fire II up, then return to Fire I (unless it is trash you & tank are comfortable spamming it on). Thunder I/II is really optional until Thundercloud, but I would try (THM in P3) to get it up in the Umbral Ice cycle.

Long story short, at this stage, if you are a) sleeping regularly, b) not blowing up mobs with Fire II before tank has aggro, and c) willing to use Cure/Physick on a tank that is in a spot of trouble, you are safely above average.


That sums it up perfectly, except I personally forego Thunder. And Scathe casts faster than anything you will get for a while so you can get the quick tags.


Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 8:58am by Valkayree
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#8 Sep 03 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
At higher levels I like to go:

Thunder III
Blizzard I
Fire I
Did Fire III proc? If yes, Fire III > Blizzard III > Fire I > Did Fire III proc? ... etc

If no, Blizzard III > Fire I > Did Fire III proc? ... etc

And of course whenever Thundercloud procs, abuse it. Just watch for Tunder DoT to almost wear so you can reapply it.

Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that if you take the time to get (even just tier I) thunder on each of a group of mobs, the % chance for Thundercloud to proc is greater as it checks each tic on each mob. Sometimes worth it to spam Thunder 1 on adds and use procs on main target.

Overall it's a fun job. Enjoy!
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#9 Sep 03 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.
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BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
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#10 Sep 03 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
At higher levels I like to go:

Thunder III
Blizzard I
Fire I
Did Fire III proc? If yes, Fire III > Blizzard III > Fire I > Did Fire III proc? ... etc

If no, Blizzard III > Fire I > Did Fire III proc? ... etc

And of course whenever Thundercloud procs, abuse it. Just watch for Tunder DoT to almost wear so you can reapply it.

Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that if you take the time to get (even just tier I) thunder on each of a group of mobs, the % chance for Thundercloud to proc is greater as it checks each tic on each mob. Sometimes worth it to spam Thunder 1 on adds and use procs on main target.

Overall it's a fun job. Enjoy!


My end game routine goes like this:

Party or solo, if multiple sleepable mobs present - Sleep 1st. Becomes aoe at 36, a godsend. Then I Raging Strikes and Manaward

Then I pick one target and hit it with Lethargy. Instacast. Then Fire I, check for Firestarter activation, Fire I, check for Firestarter activation, Fire III until out of mana, then Transpose, then Blizzard I. Then I Convert (if not being aggroed and it is available). Next Fire I, check for Firestarter activation, Fire III until out of mana, then Transpose, then Blizzard I unitl I get mana, then transpose, then Fire I, Fire III rinse and repeat. Change targets and repeat sleep when needed. Firestarter can activate off of anything, so look for the dashed lines. And if I have it up I LB at 2 bars on bosses (usually 1-1.5k dmg) and use Flare when I feel like draining all my MP and making a scene Smiley: nod

Don't discount Lethargy and that Firstarter activation, there is nothing like a slow monster on which you are casting free instant Fire III with Astral Fire III. 800 dmg easy, instant, for free. Smiley: sly


Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 9:26am by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:51pm by Valkayree
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#11 Sep 03 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wait, Firestarter can proc off Fire III? Was that changed since beta, I thought it was just off Fire I? Can it proc off Fire II as well?
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BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
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#12 Sep 03 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Anakte wrote:
Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.


I prefer to maintain a high level of mana consistently and hard nuke as needed. Has worked out better for me overall, especially in situations when you have adds that spawn and need to be taken down fast, you already have (almost) max MP pool to work with at a moments notice. DPS may not be maxed out, but it's safer from what I have seen so far.

I do enjoy just going !@$ing nuts and doing a max DPS hard nuke rotation.
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#13 Sep 03 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anakte wrote:
Wait, Firestarter can proc off Fire III? Was that changed since beta, I thought it was just off Fire I? Can it proc off Fire II as well?


It procs off of everything (unless I am crazy, which is likely). I've had it proc off of a sleep, I'm sure...

-Edit I am wrong, it procs off of Fire I and Flare.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:52pm by Valkayree
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#14 Sep 03 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.


I prefer to maintain a high level of mana consistently and hard nuke as needed. Has worked out better for me overall, especially in situations when you have adds that spawn and need to be taken down fast, you already have (almost) max MP pool to work with at a moments notice. DPS may not be maxed out, but it's safer from what I have seen so far.

I do enjoy just going !@$ing nuts and doing a max DPS hard nuke rotation.


Works well, but takes too much time imo. Blizzard III never really panned out for me. Replaced its slot with Flare. It seems like Blizzard III capped out just under 300 (with Astral III) and took double the time than to just cast a blizzard I (that usually hits near 200 for me)... I've got Fire III hitting 800 sometimes...

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:11am by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:16am by Valkayree
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Character Name: Valk Ayree
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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
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#15 Sep 03 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
Sounds like an awesome bug. In game it specifically says: Grants a 40% chance that upon casting Fire, your next Fire III will require no MP and have no casting time. Now since the duration is 12s. It is easy enough to use my rotation and after getting a Firestarter proc, go Fire I 2x more times then FIre III. The duration of the proc is 12 seconds after all.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:16am by StateAlchemist
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#16 Sep 03 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Sounds like an awesome bug. In game it specifically says: Grants a 40% chance that upon casting Fire, your next Fire III will require no MP and have no casting time. Now since the duration is 12s. It is easy enough to use my rotation and after getting a Firestarter proc, go Fire I 2x more times then FIre III. The duration of the proc is 12 seconds after all.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:16am by StateAlchemist


I only cast fire I once in my rotation, but I have had it pop off of other things I am certain. Sometimes twice in battle when I've only casted Fire I once. I'll have to look at it more closely. I may be wrong. I wasn;t really paying that close of attention and just assumed. My rotation does change up depending on circumstance...

Edit - It did proc off of a Flare and Fire I, but nothing else.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:53pm by Valkayree

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:54pm by Valkayree
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Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Ul'Dah; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#17 Sep 03 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Wait, Firestarter can proc off Fire III? Was that changed since beta, I thought it was just off Fire I? Can it proc off Fire II as well?


It procs off of everything (unless I am crazy, which is likely). I've had it proc off of a sleep, I'm sure...

IN your sleep maybe. But it's ok, I've been having FF dreams too..

Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.


I prefer to maintain a high level of mana consistently and hard nuke as needed. Has worked out better for me overall, especially in situations when you have adds that spawn and need to be taken down fast, you already have (almost) max MP pool to work with at a moments notice. DPS may not be maxed out, but it's safer from what I have seen so far.

I do enjoy just going !@$ing nuts and doing a max DPS hard nuke rotation.


Works well, but takes too much time imo. Blizzard III never really panned out for me. Replaced its slot with Flare. It seems like Blizzard III capped out just under 300 (with Astral III) and took double the time than to just cast a blizzard I (that usually hits near 200 for me)...

Well, the benefit of Blizzard III is the fact that you can go from Astral to Umbral 3 in just that one cast. It's the only spell that doesn't suffer the "Removes OR Increases" mechanic and has a "Removes AND MAXES" instead. That said, I only use it once every cycle to bump me over to U3 quickly. I understand the keeping mana level high for adds, that would actually be a good rotation for example on Garuda before you need to burn feathers. Steady damage while being prepared for a burn. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of optimal rotations for single target dps. This is one of the things I'm really starting to love about BLM though, there's so much you can do with it.
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BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
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http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/416469141_Vt5aq-XL-2.jpg
#18 Sep 03 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ah this is a very helpful discussion. Got WHM all finished up yesterday, so BLM 50 is next. Thanks for the tips everyone!
#19 Sep 03 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anakte wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Wait, Firestarter can proc off Fire III? Was that changed since beta, I thought it was just off Fire I? Can it proc off Fire II as well?


It procs off of everything (unless I am crazy, which is likely). I've had it proc off of a sleep, I'm sure...

IN your sleep maybe. But it's ok, I've been having FF dreams too..

Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.


I prefer to maintain a high level of mana consistently and hard nuke as needed. Has worked out better for me overall, especially in situations when you have adds that spawn and need to be taken down fast, you already have (almost) max MP pool to work with at a moments notice. DPS may not be maxed out, but it's safer from what I have seen so far.

I do enjoy just going !@$ing nuts and doing a max DPS hard nuke rotation.


Works well, but takes too much time imo. Blizzard III never really panned out for me. Replaced its slot with Flare. It seems like Blizzard III capped out just under 300 (with Astral III) and took double the time than to just cast a blizzard I (that usually hits near 200 for me)...

Well, the benefit of Blizzard III is the fact that you can go from Astral to Umbral 3 in just that one cast. It's the only spell that doesn't suffer the "Removes OR Increases" mechanic and has a "Removes AND MAXES" instead. That said, I only use it once every cycle to bump me over to U3 quickly. I understand the keeping mana level high for adds, that would actually be a good rotation for example on Garuda before you need to burn feathers. Steady damage while being prepared for a burn. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of optimal rotations for single target dps. This is one of the things I'm really starting to love about BLM though, there's so much you can do with it.


Good point. Blizzard III uses nearly no mana. Didn't know it took you to Umbral in one cast. Interesting. Btw, on Garuda, I center myself and Blizzard II nuke the **** out of the feathers. Works pretty well.
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Character Name: Valk Ayree
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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
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#20 Sep 03 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've only tried it as SMN so far, and (so far) feathers have been the only real use of Tri-Disaster >.>

I've been racing SMN to 50, but after that I plan to work on some actual math regarding BLM rotations. Mana vs Damage vs Cast Time and all that. I'm also curious if anyone has found exactly what effect Astral/Umbral states have. Is it a straight percentage boost/penalty? Is it different for each stage?

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Anakte Grey
BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
MRD 26 DRG 30 MNK 30 GLA 25

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/416469141_Vt5aq-XL-2.jpg
#21 Sep 03 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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You all should be posting in the BLM forums. I'm trying to get some theorycrafting in there but no one is visiting! :(

Never wait for firestarter.

Never cast blizzard 1 when you have already casted fire 3. Umbral Ice III halves casting time of all your fire spells.

Your rotation should look like this (on a boss):

1) Cast Thunder X (you can probably swiftcast T3 but you may need it later due to mechanics; judgement call)
1a) Anytime thundercloud procs, cast thunder 3
1b) Cast lethargy during frenzies phases or whenever ready if the boss is a casting monster
2) Use int potion
3) Fire 3 (you can use your swiftcast here, possibly, if you know you won't be needing it later)
4) Raging/Quelling strikes (only use quelling if your tank sucks)
5) Spam fire 1 until firestarter procs and use the proc on your next fire 1 cast as an instant. Do not wait to see if firestarter procced after your fire 1 goes off. Keep casting fire 1.
5a) Convert
5b) Spam fire 1
6) Cast blizz 3 to get 3 stacks of umbral ice (blizz 3's cast time will be reduced by 50%)
7) Refresh thunder X while your mana regenerates (roughly 2~3 seconds) .
7) Immediately cast fire 3 when done with thunder X. When fire 3 is about to end, mash the fire 1 key. You will get two spells that take advantage of the halved casting speed due to umbral ice 3
8) Restart the rotation

I prefer using swiftcast to either keep astral fire 3 up if I'm moving, get astral fire 3 back up if I've lost it (due to kiting), or to use on sleep/freeze/flare in an emergency. Or physick in an ermgency.

You should be using sleepga > wait 15 seconds > freeze > wait 9 seconds > sleepga > wait 10 seconds > freeze > sleep should be off of diminishing returns by now so cast again if multiple mos are still alive

Lethargy is great since it works on bosses, too. Knowing when a boss is getting 'deadly' or not is a key to our class. Same with using apocatastasis.

Transpose should only be used if convert is down and you do not have enough to cast a blizzard 3 after burning through fire 1s.

Firestarter only procs when using fire 1

Edited, Sep 26th 2013 5:27am by HitomeOfBismarck
#22 Sep 03 2013 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Anakte wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Wait, Firestarter can proc off Fire III? Was that changed since beta, I thought it was just off Fire I? Can it proc off Fire II as well?


It procs off of everything (unless I am crazy, which is likely). I've had it proc off of a sleep, I'm sure...

IN your sleep maybe. But it's ok, I've been having FF dreams too..

Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Yes, every tick of Thunder damage is a chance for you to get the proc, and then it's your choice where to toss it.

I'm curious about your rotation though, why do you do B3 right after a F3 and immediately into a F1? I've been using:
Fire I until proc > Fire III > repeat until low mana > Blizzard III > Thunder III > Blizzard I until full mana > Transpose
Tossing Thunder procs in as they pop up and reapplying the Thunder III again as needed in Umbral cycles.


I prefer to maintain a high level of mana consistently and hard nuke as needed. Has worked out better for me overall, especially in situations when you have adds that spawn and need to be taken down fast, you already have (almost) max MP pool to work with at a moments notice. DPS may not be maxed out, but it's safer from what I have seen so far.

I do enjoy just going !@$ing nuts and doing a max DPS hard nuke rotation.


Works well, but takes too much time imo. Blizzard III never really panned out for me. Replaced its slot with Flare. It seems like Blizzard III capped out just under 300 (with Astral III) and took double the time than to just cast a blizzard I (that usually hits near 200 for me)...

Well, the benefit of Blizzard III is the fact that you can go from Astral to Umbral 3 in just that one cast. It's the only spell that doesn't suffer the "Removes OR Increases" mechanic and has a "Removes AND MAXES" instead. That said, I only use it once every cycle to bump me over to U3 quickly. I understand the keeping mana level high for adds, that would actually be a good rotation for example on Garuda before you need to burn feathers. Steady damage while being prepared for a burn. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of optimal rotations for single target dps. This is one of the things I'm really starting to love about BLM though, there's so much you can do with it.


Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.
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#23 Sep 03 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Anakte wrote:
I've only tried it as SMN so far, and (so far) feathers have been the only real use of Tri-Disaster >.>

I've been racing SMN to 50, but after that I plan to work on some actual math regarding BLM rotations. Mana vs Damage vs Cast Time and all that. I'm also curious if anyone has found exactly what effect Astral/Umbral states have. Is it a straight percentage boost/penalty? Is it different for each stage?



Without a parser I can't tell you. I just run on gut feeling and instinct mostly. Do more of what has worked, do less of what has got me killed.
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Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Ul'Dah; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#24 Sep 03 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist wrote:

Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.


Fire I costs less at that stage because Blizzard I to Fire I is killing your Astral buildup. Gotta transmute in between to switch the astral effect over. Its a mana vs damage preference really, so your way is not wrong, you are just preferring speed to damage

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:45am by Valkayree
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Ul'Dah; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#25 Sep 03 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist wrote:

Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.


Fire I costs less at that stage because Blizzard I to Fire I is killing your Astral buildup. Gotta transmute in between to switch the astral effect over. Its a mana vs damage preference really, so your way is not wrong, you are just preferring speed to damage

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:45am by Valkayree


Yeah at that point, pretty much. I still have yet to just go out and "solo" and by solo I mean grab random meat shield and let me go to town on some high level mobs so I can get a good personal feel for what I like best. It's on my to do list, along with repairing 10 laptops, forum moderating, wiki editing, live streaming, crafting, gathering, leveling gladiator, and trying to find a job.

Uh, not necessarily in order of priority. Heh.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 12:01pm by StateAlchemist
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#26 Sep 03 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist wrote:

Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.


Fire I costs less at that stage because Blizzard I to Fire I is killing your Astral buildup. Gotta transmute in between to switch the astral effect over. Its a mana vs damage preference really, so your way is not wrong, you are just preferring speed to damage

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:45am by Valkayree


Yeah at that point, pretty much. I still have yet to just go out and "solo" and by solo I mean grab random meat shield and let me go to town on some high level mobs so I can get a good personal feel for what I like best. It's on my to do list, along with repairing 10 laptops, forum moderating, wiki editing, live streaming, crafting, gathering, leveling gladiator, and trying to find a job.

Uh, not necessarily in order of priority. Heh.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 12:01pm by StateAlchemist


Good luck with all that, especially the job! But don't forego your chocobo. He comes in very handy. He was instrumental in me completing all five levels of the hunting log by lvl 43. Best companion ever.
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#27 Sep 03 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
You all should be posting in the BLM forums. I'm trying to get some theorycrafting in there but no one is visiting.

Never use thunder 3. Cast thunder 2, wait for thundercloud proc, then use thunder 3.

Never wait for firestarter.

Never cast blizzard 1 when you have already casted fire 3. Umbral Ice III halves casting time of all your fire spells.

Your rotation should look like this (on a boss):

1) Thunder II
1) Raging/Quelling strikes (only use quelling if your tank sucks)
2) Fire 3 (you can use your swiftcast here but I don't like this)
3) Spam fire 1 until firestarter procs and use the proc on your next fireball cast as an instant. Do not wait to see if firestarter procced after your fire 1 goes off. Keep casting fire 1.
4) Cast blizz 3 to get 3 stacks of umbral ice (blizz 3's cast time will be reduced by 50%)
5) If thundercloud had procced before this, you should cast thunder 3 here. Otherwise, refresh thunder 2.
6) Immediately cast fire 3 when done with thunder 2. When fire 3 is about to end, mash the fire 1 key. You will get two spells that take advantage of the halved casting speed due to umbral ice 3
7) Restart the rotation
8) If the mob is under ~10% health and you have 3 stacks of astral fire, just use a blizzard. Otherwise, spam scathe when he's near 3~5%. Have to judge for yourself.

I prefer using swiftcast to either get astral fire 3 back up if I've lost it (due to kiting) or used for sleepga in an emergency. Or physick in an ermgency. Or freeze.

You should be using sleepga > wait 15 seconds > freeze > wait 9 seconds > sleepga > wait 10 seconds > freeze > sleep should be off of diminishing returns by now so cast again if multiple mos are still alive

Lethargy is great since it works on bosses, too. Knowing when a boss is getting 'deadly' or not is a key to our class. Same with using apocatastasis.

Transpose should only be used if convert is down and you do not have enough to cast a blizzard 3 after burning through fire 1s.

Firestarter only procs when using fire 1

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:44am by HitomeOfBismarck

Bah, I always forget to bring my security token in so I can't check during work. But I also haven't spent enough time on my BLM to really add anything to a theorycrafting conversation yet. I've done the class quests but I've spent all my time on SMN, I can't wait to get into it more though. I wasn't aware of the faster Fire casting effect Umbral has, that's interesting.

Questions: why do we not use Thunder III unless as a proc (I'm guessing now that it's the initial damage not being worth the time spent above the gcd, but then wouldn't Thunder I be the best option?), and why would we not use the proc immediately, even if in Astral cycle? Why cast Fire III then Fire I in Umbral? Is that because of the cast time benefit running up against the gcd? Is that really more beneficial than Transpose > Fire III (to Astral 3) then continuing?
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#28 Sep 03 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Bah, I always forget to bring my security token in so I can't check during work. But I also haven't spent enough time on my BLM to really add anything to a theorycrafting conversation yet. I've done the class quests but I've spent all my time on SMN, I can't wait to get into it more though. I wasn't aware of the faster Fire casting effect Umbral has, that's interesting.

Questions: why do we not use Thunder III unless as a proc (I'm guessing now that it's the initial damage not being worth the time spent above the gcd, but then wouldn't Thunder I be the best option?), and why would we not use the proc immediately, even if in Astral cycle? Why cast Fire III then Fire I in Umbral? Is that because of the cast time benefit running up against the gcd? Is that really more beneficial than Transpose > Fire III (to Astral 3) then continuing?


We're all new. :) I want to have others around to double check my initial findings

For your other questions, I made a thread here:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=292&mid=137818379182149257&p=1#3

Currently have 3 astral fires
1) Blizz 3 (around 200 MP)
2) Thunder X (during this cast your first mana regen occurs; let's say 1300)
3) Fire 3 (your next mana regen block is coming and will go off before your astral fire will)

You equivalently have full MP with 3 astral fires already at your disposal using this way. Not to mention, when you are in umbral ice 3, you can cast fire 3 and receive half cast time and then mash your fire key to receive a fire with half cast time as well.

Edited, Sep 26th 2013 5:29am by HitomeOfBismarck
#29 Sep 03 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist wrote:

Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.


Fire I costs less at that stage because Blizzard I to Fire I is killing your Astral buildup. Gotta transmute in between to switch the astral effect over. Its a mana vs damage preference really, so your way is not wrong, you are just preferring speed to damage

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:45am by Valkayree


Yeah at that point, pretty much. I still have yet to just go out and "solo" and by solo I mean grab random meat shield and let me go to town on some high level mobs so I can get a good personal feel for what I like best. It's on my to do list, along with repairing 10 laptops, forum moderating, wiki editing, live streaming, crafting, gathering, leveling gladiator, and trying to find a job.

Uh, not necessarily in order of priority. Heh.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 12:01pm by StateAlchemist


Good luck with all that, especially the job! But don't forego your chocobo. He comes in very handy. He was instrumental in me completing all five levels of the hunting log by lvl 43. Best companion ever.


Well so far I haven't found a non-fate mob I can't solo on BLM. But for testing purposes, it isn't relaxed enough for me to try variations without risking death. I love me some tasteh soloing.
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#30 Sep 03 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Hitome - I replied in the BLM forum (thank you for pointing that one out, I thought they got rid of it.) ^.^

I didn't want to derail his level ~15-ish question that much more lol.
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#31 Sep 03 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Ah this is a very helpful discussion. Got WHM all finished up yesterday, so BLM 50 is next. Thanks for the tips everyone!


That is my game plan too Gnu. Last Friday I got my WHM to 50 but I wasn't sure what to do next. I was looking over BLM, Scholar and Summoner. After seeing how the DD mages performed in various dungeons, I'm going with BLM. They seem to have the least problems when the need needed to either burn something down quick or AoE a bunch of trash asap.

So far my THM is doing wonderful in FATEs and I sometimes summon my Chocobo to either heal me when I AoE or DD when it's single critter.
#32 Sep 03 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Is it possible to sleep mobs after they've had a DOT applied to them? I swear they were staying asleep last night after our arcanist Bio'd them.
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#33 Sep 03 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes.
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#34 Sep 03 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
In fact unless the spell deals initial damage I do not believe it wakes them. WOuld have to test it though to verify.
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#35 Sep 03 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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I believe in general that's true, as a Summoner I can Bane my dots onto sleeping targets and not wake them up. Of course, I have immediate and substantial aggro when they wake up, but details.. ^.^
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#36 Sep 03 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
StateAlchemist wrote:

Ignoring Thunder for the moment, your rotation for single target should be Fire I spam, casting Fire III as it procs. When you are low on mana: Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I > (Fire III if proc) > Blizzard I > Blizzard I > Fire I etc... After 2 Blizzard I's Fire I costs less then Blizzard I to cast, so it is worth casting to try and get a Firestarter proc.


Fire I costs less at that stage because Blizzard I to Fire I is killing your Astral buildup. Gotta transmute in between to switch the astral effect over. Its a mana vs damage preference really, so your way is not wrong, you are just preferring speed to damage

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:45am by Valkayree


Yeah at that point, pretty much. I still have yet to just go out and "solo" and by solo I mean grab random meat shield and let me go to town on some high level mobs so I can get a good personal feel for what I like best. It's on my to do list, along with repairing 10 laptops, forum moderating, wiki editing, live streaming, crafting, gathering, leveling gladiator, and trying to find a job.

Uh, not necessarily in order of priority. Heh.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 12:01pm by StateAlchemist


Good luck with all that, especially the job! But don't forego your chocobo. He comes in very handy. He was instrumental in me completing all five levels of the hunting log by lvl 43. Best companion ever.


Well so far I haven't found a non-fate mob I can't solo on BLM. But for testing purposes, it isn't relaxed enough for me to try variations without risking death. I love me some tasteh soloing.


Exactly! I solo everything I can, especially since Psysick is so fast and uses littel mana to zip you up faster than the mob can dish out. That + lethargy + aoe sleep means that I can take things solo like i used to be able to with a blue/thf in FFXI.
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#37 Sep 03 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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rubina wrote:
Gnu wrote:
Ah this is a very helpful discussion. Got WHM all finished up yesterday, so BLM 50 is next. Thanks for the tips everyone!


That is my game plan too Gnu. Last Friday I got my WHM to 50 but I wasn't sure what to do next. I was looking over BLM, Scholar and Summoner. After seeing how the DD mages performed in various dungeons, I'm going with BLM. They seem to have the least problems when the need needed to either burn something down quick or AoE a bunch of trash asap.

So far my THM is doing wonderful in FATEs and I sometimes summon my Chocobo to either heal me when I AoE or DD when it's single critter.


I might have to go WHM to 50 as my next job. It will be my first go ever at healer, and no, I wouldn't be playing it so I can ride sideways on a unicorn. Smiley: tongue Seriously though, the wait times for DD are loooong.
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#38 Sep 03 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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To maximise damage output you should be mixing in scathe between blizzard casts and using swiftcast whenever it is up (I use it after transpose from blizzard to fire). For longer fights, lightening does more damage than blizzard so is worth it. Lightening 2 is even more important given the proc which enables you to cast Lightening 2 again at zero cast time and all damage applied at once (rather than DoT). If you are not using Lightening 2, you are missing out on massive DPS.

In addition to this, you should be watching aggro mechanics. If you are fighting multiple mobs and the tank is good enough to hold group hate, you should be switching to Fire 2 once aggro is secured to maximise damage output across all enemies.Problem with this of course if that you have pull aggro from the non-primary targets of the tanks so you have to be careful.

I have tried all jobs on my legacy character (all 50's) and I think that THM/BLM is the most involved.

Too many people are just spamming Blizzard - Transpose - Fire and are missing out on most of the damage that they can do post around level 30.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:50pm by HallieXIV

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:54pm by HallieXIV
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#39 Sep 03 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
To maximise damage output you should be mixing in scathe between blizzard casts and using swiftcast whenever it is up (I use it after transpose from blizzard to fire). For longer fights, lightening does more damage than blizzard so is worth it. Lightening 2 is even more important given the proc which enables you to cast Lightening 2 again at zero cast time and all damage applied at once (rather than DoT). If you are not using Lightening 2, you are missing out on massive DPS.

In addition to this, you should be watching aggro mechanics. If you are fighting multiple mobs and the tank is good enough to hold group hate, you should be switching to Fire 2 once aggro is secured to maximise damage output across all enemies.Problem with this of course if that you have pull aggro from the non-primary targets of the tanks so you have to be careful.

I have tried all jobs on my legacy character (all 50's) and I think that THM/BLM is the most involved.

Too many people are just spamming Blizzard - Transpose - Fire and are missing out on most of the damage that they can do post around level 30.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:50pm by HallieXIV

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:54pm by HallieXIV


Scathe is really fast and sometimes I can hit 300-400 with it out of the blue and I'm not sure what i did or how those criticals are affected (not by Astral or Umbral I assume)

I used scathe when I was going for tags to claim things for quests, but now i use lethargy because it is instacast.
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#40 Sep 03 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
To maximise damage output you should be mixing in scathe between blizzard casts and using swiftcast whenever it is up (I use it after transpose from blizzard to fire). For longer fights, lightening does more damage than blizzard so is worth it. Lightening 2 is even more important given the proc which enables you to cast Lightening 2 again at zero cast time and all damage applied at once (rather than DoT). If you are not using Lightening 2, you are missing out on massive DPS.

In addition to this, you should be watching aggro mechanics. If you are fighting multiple mobs and the tank is good enough to hold group hate, you should be switching to Fire 2 once aggro is secured to maximise damage output across all enemies.Problem with this of course if that you have pull aggro from the non-primary targets of the tanks so you have to be careful.

I have tried all jobs on my legacy character (all 50's) and I think that THM/BLM is the most involved.

Too many people are just spamming Blizzard - Transpose - Fire and are missing out on most of the damage that they can do post around level 30.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:50pm by HallieXIV

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:54pm by HallieXIV


Scathe is really fast and sometimes I can hit 300-400 with it out of the blue and I'm not sure what i did or how those criticals are affected (not by Astral or Umbral I assume)

I used scathe when I was going for tags to claim things for quests, but now i use lethargy because it is instacast.


I have had a few Scathe crits at more than double usual damage, likewise I am not sure about how the damage is determined but it is a staple attack at up to level 35.

Agreed re. Lethargy but that is not available until later (early 40's I think).
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#41 Sep 03 2013 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Scathe has a 20% chance to double its potency, that's where the big numbers come from. That said, on paper it's not viable as a part of a standard rotation. If you hit 5 Scathes, 1 of them will be double potency, meaning (120x4 + 240x1) for a total of 720 potency. If you cast 5 x Blizzard I in that time it would be (150x5) for a total potency of 750. The benefit to Scathe is that it's instant cast, so you should always use it when you have to move in a fight and you don't have a Firestarter proc.

I wanted to do some numbers testing when I got home but that didn't happen, so I'll have to wait til whenever maintenance is done tomorrow.
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#42 Sep 03 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been leveling THM on the side lately.

The 2 times I've done Sastasha, I just gave up on Sleep. The tank would regularly break it after application.

Now I only use it if the tank specifically marks for it. Being proactive was just a headache.
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#43 Sep 03 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Anakte wrote:
Scathe has a 20% chance to double its potency, that's where the big numbers come from. That said, on paper it's not viable as a part of a standard rotation. If you hit 5 Scathes, 1 of them will be double potency, meaning (120x4 + 240x1) for a total of 720 potency. If you cast 5 x Blizzard I in that time it would be (150x5) for a total potency of 750. The benefit to Scathe is that it's instant cast, so you should always use it when you have to move in a fight and you don't have a Firestarter proc.

I wanted to do some numbers testing when I got home but that didn't happen, so I'll have to wait til whenever maintenance is done tomorrow.


Scathe is an instant cast whereas blizzard takes 2.5 seconds (unbuffed in spell speed), there is a delay for the global cool down but this will affect your formula. Also affected by anything that impacts your global cool down of course. Experience seems to suggest it is worth including in the rotation for me but then the proc rate seems more than 20%. Need to get some damage monitors to be sure of course.
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#44 Sep 03 2013 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Anakte wrote:
Scathe has a 20% chance to double its potency, that's where the big numbers come from. That said, on paper it's not viable as a part of a standard rotation. If you hit 5 Scathes, 1 of them will be double potency, meaning (120x4 + 240x1) for a total of 720 potency. If you cast 5 x Blizzard I in that time it would be (150x5) for a total potency of 750. The benefit to Scathe is that it's instant cast, so you should always use it when you have to move in a fight and you don't have a Firestarter proc.

I wanted to do some numbers testing when I got home but that didn't happen, so I'll have to wait til whenever maintenance is done tomorrow.


Bingo! You rarely want to mix scathe into your rotation unless you have to move and swiftcast is down. It invokes the GCD which is a pain in the **** and improved scathe isn't quite enough to justify the GCD.

But like Anakte said: it is a great tool when you need to move out of AoE or have movement of any kind in a fight. In fact, I believe it was given to us for this reason alone. If you look at mage in WoW right now, one of the complaints is that movement fights were not very friendly to certain specs (like arcane) because we had few abilities to use while on the move. Arcane barrage pretty much. Think of scathe like that. You don't really want to cast arcane barrage because it does pitiful damage (or at least, did last time I played) but it's the only ability you can use on the move outside of PoM + arcane blast or ice floes. By casting scathe and invoking GCD, you also may run out of time on your astral fires or umbral ice if you're not careful.

In hindsight, it's very scary how comparable BLM is in this game to arcane mage in WoW.

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 7:20am by HitomeOfBismarck
#45 Sep 04 2013 at 12:57 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Scathe has a 20% chance to double its potency, that's where the big numbers come from. That said, on paper it's not viable as a part of a standard rotation. If you hit 5 Scathes, 1 of them will be double potency, meaning (120x4 + 240x1) for a total of 720 potency. If you cast 5 x Blizzard I in that time it would be (150x5) for a total potency of 750. The benefit to Scathe is that it's instant cast, so you should always use it when you have to move in a fight and you don't have a Firestarter proc.

I wanted to do some numbers testing when I got home but that didn't happen, so I'll have to wait til whenever maintenance is done tomorrow.


Bingo! You rarely want to mix scathe into your rotation unless you have to move and swiftcast is down. It invokes the GCD which is a pain in the **** and improved scathe isn't quite enough to justify the GCD.

But like Anakte said: it is a great tool when you need to move out of AoE or have movement of any kind in a fight. In fact, I believe it was given to us for this reason alone. If you look at mage in WoW right now, one of the complaints is that movement fights were not very friendly to certain specs (like arcane) because we had few abilities to use while on the move. Arcane barrage pretty much. Think of scathe like that. You don't really want to cast arcane barrage because it does pitiful damage (or at least, did last time I played) but it's the only ability you can use on the move outside of PoM + arcane blast or ice floes. By casting scathe and invoking GCD, you also may run out of time on your astral fires or umbral ice if you're not careful.

In hindsight, it's very scary how comparable BLM is in this game to arcane mage in WoW.

Now if we can just figure out whether to use thunder III or II, I think the rotation will be almost solidified (once people look it over and do some more number crunching).

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 1:12am by HitomeOfBismarck


Have to disagree here. With a 1.5 sec global cooldown, 5 scathes can be cast in 6 seconds, so that is 720 dmg in 6 seconds or 120 per second.

For Blizzard, the 5 cast rotation will take 10 seconds, so that is 750 DMG in 10 seconds, or 75 oer second.

Blizzard does have the added benefit of a debuff and increasing the degree of elemental alignment (which increases damage when you then switch to fire), but overall it is worth throwing in a Scathe, either when moving, or when Transposing to fire.
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#46 Sep 04 2013 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Slight mistake in the post above.

Blizzard actually takes time to cast the first time, whereas Scathe does not (as there is no cool down), so on a strict race using only the two spells and all other things being equal, Scathe is even better than my analysis above suggests.

Of course, in reality, you would not have a rotation of just scathe given the desire to build up additional damage, lay on the debuffs etc.
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#47 Sep 04 2013 at 2:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is a lot of misinformation out there currently. Some websites say scathe's potency is 120 and others say 100. Edit: It's actually 120 in game

However, one thing almost all the websites I've seen agree on is the global cooldown.

If I'm not mistaken, the global cooldown is actually 2.5 seconds. At least, the scathe spell has a recast of 2.5 seconds:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/class/thaumaturge.php
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Thaumaturge

Therefore, your timings are off. Keep in mind that scathe doesn't seem to gain anything from spell speed, either.

Using the information here:

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Thaumaturge

Given a 16 second window

Scathe

6 scathes for 720 damage (without accounting for improved scathe)

Normal rotation

Fire 3 (3.5 s, 220 potency and adds 3 astral fires)
Fire 1 (2.5 s, 150 potency and has a chance to proc an instant cast fire 3 for no MP)
Fire 1 (2.5 s, 150)
Fire 1 (2.5 s, 150)
Fire 1 (2.5 s, 150)
Blizzard 3 (1.75 s due to astral fire 3's 50% cast speed reduction, 150 potency)

Total damage: 970 without taking fire 3 instant casts, spell speed, or swiftcast into account

I could have replaced blizzard 3 and one fire 1 with a thunder 3 for even more damage, probably, but this was just to demonstrate a point.

It's obvious that spamming scathe is something you wouldn't do. The argument is whether to stick it in a normal rotation. The answer is probably that it is a DPS decrease. Enhanced scathe procs at 20%. Firestarter procs at 30%.

As a note: this is all really good information that we should be discussing in the Thaumaturge or Blackmage forums!!

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 7:21am by HitomeOfBismarck
#48 Sep 04 2013 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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jhariya wrote:
The few times I've been able to get past the 1017 I have been working on THM. I'm enjoying it, but not sure if I am playing it properly. I went through Sash twice and thought I was doing well enough. And by that I mean nobody was critical of how I was playing. I slept what I could and alternated bliz/ fire. By doing so I never ran out of mp. Then I noticed a shout where another THM was trying to get a group and he was boasting that he was better than your average THM. I'm sure he was probably just running his mouth, but it did make me wonder if I'm not cutting it.

Thoughts?


Anyone saying he is better than is most likely trash at the game. No joke, big mouths speak loud and fast. Look as far the dungeon goes well, without anyone dying on bosses (healer going out of mana because of too low dps) you have nothing to worry about.

In all the runs I've done I can think only 1 where the dps was "questionable" because of how long the fight lasted compared to other groups I've played it.
#49 Sep 04 2013 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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BTW, after some testing this morning, it seems there is no reason to use thunder II unless you want to quickly DoT adds that are not the main target. Thunder III all the way.

You will temporarily not be able to cast thunder 3 during your umbral ice 3 regen phase but it won't make that much of a difference staying capped at max MP for 1 second or so.
#50 Sep 04 2013 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Right, the recast of Scathe is 2.5 seconds (and I believe all GCDs are, it was never lowered to 1.5 was it?), so it doesn't matter if it is instant, it takes the exact same amount of time to move from one Scathe to the next as one Blizzard to the next. Aside from movement, the other place it might be useful is when a mob is about to die and the front loaded damage might hit but the cast time might not (as in zerged fates) but as far as rotation it's still not going to be worth it.

That said, it's a very minimal difference, and the time you spend in Umbral cycle once you have Blizzard III is also minimal, but on a standing fight Blizzard will beat out Scathe in pure damage. If you're in a fight where you're moving a lot or randomly, a missed cast of Blizzard will be detrimental, so you may choose to use Scathe *just in case*. But if you know you can stand still, choose Blizzard.
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#51 Sep 04 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
Valkayree wrote:


Scathe is really fast and sometimes I can hit 300-400 with it out of the blue and I'm not sure what i did or how those criticals are affected (not by Astral or Umbral I assume)

I used scathe when I was going for tags to claim things for quests, but now i use lethargy because it is instacast.


I have had a few Scathe crits at more than double usual damage, likewise I am not sure about how the damage is determined but it is a staple attack at up to level 35.

Agreed re. Lethargy but that is not available until later (early 40's I think).


After that is coincidentally when I started seeing those dmg spikes.
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