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#1 Dec 28 2013 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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This is the only site that I am scared to post anything. The rating system can be manipulated by cliques. A moderator set my rating back to normal after finding out how the site works. I still cannot get myself to post when I have questions. I just sit and wait for someone to post the same question I want to ask. See if someone answers them so I can find out what I want to know.
#2 Dec 28 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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This whole rate up/down system does restrict free speech and promote sheepy behaviour. If it only did so if you value the colour of your name, it wouldn't be that big a deal. My qualm is that posts can be nuked for having differing opinions. That just isn't cricket.
#3 Dec 28 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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While probably not feasible with a site like this one, one feature on another board that I really like is the requirement to write a reason for downvoting ("neg-repping" in this case). Obviously, you could just type gibberish in the box, but if a post gets bombed by peopel without legitimate reasons, you could police it a bit better. Also, you are only allowed to give out a certain amount of ratings per 24-hr period, and can't rate the same person (in either direction) multiple times in a row.

While I wouldn't limit the overall amount of votes, perhaps a limit to the number of downvotes you could give out in a time period would work alright. I don't think green arrows should be restricted, though.
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#4 Dec 28 2013 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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For one thing, don't care about your karma. And if you care so much about a karma system on a forum that you won't post for fear of going down, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the issue isn't with the system.

Caveat: if you're talking about the FFX or FFXIV forums, know that they're a particular kind of terrible and it has nothing to do with the karma system.
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#5 Dec 28 2013 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Caveat: if you're talking about the FFX or FFXIV forums, know that they're a particular kind of terrible and it has nothing to do with the karma system.
Smiley: lol
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#6 Dec 28 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Demoncard wrote:
This whole rate up/down system does restrict free speech and promote sheepy behaviour.
Great, another person who learned constitutional law from Duck Dynasty.
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#7 Dec 28 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
For one thing, don't care about your karma. And if you care so much about a karma system on a forum that you won't post for fear of going down, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the issue isn't with the system.

Caveat: if you're talking about the FFX or FFXIV forums, know that they're a particular kind of terrible and it has nothing to do with the karma system.


Yes, I am talking about 14. They rated me down to sub-default and I did not know what it was. I could not see my own post and others could not either. I come from the Allahkazam period and forgot my original account. They did not have this system up in 2003 and kind of shock that the clique runners were old FF11 members from my old linkshell. I instantly knew what it was because two of them I had to kick for trying to get items by kissing A. I do not know what made ZAM think this was a bright idea when the same thing was going on years ago. Just people did not have to be scared to speak their mind and get set to not being seen. In addition, you pay for this, which made it worse because I paid a year. I feel if I pay I should not be able to be sub defaulted.

They need to make it that you can be rated down but your post can still be seen if its sub-default.
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#8 Dec 28 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
They need to make it that you can be rated down but your post can still be seen if its sub-default.
Click your name in the upper right. Click "Forum Settings". Change "Thread Filter" to "Never Filter". Now Sub-D posts won't be hidden from you.
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#9 Dec 28 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Also, reading through your posts, I might not necessarily have rated them down personally, but I can see why many of them were.

Edited, Dec 28th 2013 11:22am by Spoonless
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#10 Dec 28 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

They need to make it that you can be rated down but your post can still be seen if its sub-default.


The point of the karma system was specifically to allow for idiocy to be weeded out of the conversation, so that it didn't get derailed.

That mattered a lot more in the past, when the boards were much more active. Now it would only really matter for the XIV board, where it doesn't matter anyway, because the XIV board is the second level of ****.

Realistically, the problem is that the XI community on these boards is atrocious. Well, it was always elitist, with the game being what it was, but the individual job forums were usually pretty helpful (the warrior board, for instance, taking steps to get new Warriors level-appropriate GAxes).

But as the game aged, the newbies disappeared and people quit. So you really just ended up with a bunch of elitist idiots on a board padding their own and each other's inflated senses of self worth. When FFXIV's forums were created, a lot of them started posting there, too (for unsurprising reasons). That pretty instantly established the culture of the board as a FFXI 2.0 board, and it's not likely to change.

Let me put it this way - when FFXIV came out, a lot of posters on Zam's non-FFXIV board were playing it. We all just used a different thread in the general games forum to talk about the game, rather than gouge our eyes out with the XIV board.

TL;DR: If you don't have a thick skin, don't use the FFXIV board. Or the Asylum. Though the Asylum is a lot more inviting...
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#11 Dec 28 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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The karma system is working as intended.

Administrator Kaolian
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#12 Dec 28 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:

They need to make it that you can be rated down but your post can still be seen if its sub-default.


The point of the karma system was specifically to allow for idiocy to be weeded out of the conversation, so that it didn't get derailed.

That mattered a lot more in the past, when the boards were much more active. Now it would only really matter for the XIV board, where it doesn't matter anyway, because the XIV board is the second level of ****.

Realistically, the problem is that the XI community on these boards is atrocious. Well, it was always elitist, with the game being what it was, but the individual job forums were usually pretty helpful (the warrior board, for instance, taking steps to get new Warriors level-appropriate GAxes).

But as the game aged, the newbies disappeared and people quit. So you really just ended up with a bunch of elitist idiots on a board padding their own and each other's inflated senses of self worth. When FFXIV's forums were created, a lot of them started posting there, too (for unsurprising reasons). That pretty instantly established the culture of the board as a FFXI 2.0 board, and it's not likely to change.

Let me put it this way - when FFXIV came out, a lot of posters on Zam's non-FFXIV board were playing it. We all just used a different thread in the general games forum to talk about the game, rather than gouge our eyes out with the XIV board.

TL;DR: If you don't have a thick skin, don't use the FFXIV board. Or the Asylum. Though the Asylum is a lot more inviting...


All the other boards seem dead to me. Can you give me links to other ones you're talking about. Even killingifrit.com looks completely dead now. Idi I feel like a old woman trying to find these boards online.
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#13 Dec 28 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The karma system is working as intended.

Administrator Kaolian


It does if you do not have mods for the boards. It also can make cliques if it's a small community. If it's a small community you should have at least one moderator.
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#14 Dec 28 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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We do. They generally have orange names with a thingy that says "admin" under their name. Users can self moderate as well by reporting various posts which immidiatly send them to all the admins for review, or by using the Karma system to rate things up or down.

Edited, Dec 28th 2013 11:23am by Kaolian
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#15 Dec 28 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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You can try the FFXIV subreddit, which seemed alright. Though of course, Reddit has a voting system as well. Of course, your overall karma doesn't affect your individual posts' visibility.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv

As a side note, frequently bringing up your previous experience in FFXI and disparaging players who come from other, "easier" MMO backgrounds are probably going to get you downvoted on there as well. You should be fine with the more innocuous comments and questions, though. I'm not picking on you but those types of remarks, even in an otherwise decent post, tend to make people downvote, ignore the rest of your post, and move on.
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#16 Dec 28 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
This is the only site that I am scared to post anything. The rating system can be manipulated by cliques. A moderator set my rating back to normal after finding out how the site works. I still cannot get myself to post when I have questions. I just sit and wait for someone to post the same question I want to ask. See if someone answers them so I can find out what I want to know.


Here is a question, what exactly are your questions that your worried about posting? And to be honest i dont think i would worry to much about the rating system on these boards most the people here are most helpful, and will assist anyway they can. If you have a question about EQ or WoW I may be able to help....
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#17 Dec 28 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Rukkuss wrote:
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
This is the only site that I am scared to post anything. The rating system can be manipulated by cliques. A moderator set my rating back to normal after finding out how the site works. I still cannot get myself to post when I have questions. I just sit and wait for someone to post the same question I want to ask. See if someone answers them so I can find out what I want to know.


Here is a question, what exactly are your questions that your worried about posting? And to be honest i dont think i would worry to much about the rating system on these boards most the people here are most helpful, and will assist anyway they can. If you have a question about EQ or WoW I may be able to help....


I do not have the questions anymore. I feel if you pay for this site unlike others with rating. It should not have a system where you cannot see your post and others cannot see your post unless they go out of their way to find out how to see it. My answers and questions would show like you are on ignore. I have ran sites myself before is why I made the comment. Why is it setup like this when people can manipulate a forum if it has cliques. You cannot delete post at all or anything. Those post can sit for who knows how long and still be down rated if you got no moderator taking care of that forum..
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#18 Dec 28 2013 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Demoncard wrote:
This whole rate up/down system does restrict free speech and promote sheepy behaviour.
Great, another person who learned constitutional law from Duck Dynasty.

Constitutions? On the internet? I didn't mention a constitution.

All I'm saying is that on forums without rating systems, people have more varied opinions and posts that aren't a rephrasing of what other highly rated people have posted.
#19 Dec 28 2013 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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Demoncard wrote:
All I'm saying is that on forums without rating systems, people have more varied opinions and posts that aren't a rephrasing of what other highly rated people have posted.
It's a double edged sword. Long time WoW players like to joke that the Oboards are a wretched hive of scum and villainy(as well as other things that aren't Star Wars references). And they always have been a bit of a cesspool of garbage you have to wade through to get to the islands containing things worth reading. Part of that is because, as the main forum for the game, it attracts a lot of the idiots who think that the company reads all the posts. The other part is that it's too big to really keep moderated. A karma system of some kind implemented at the very beginning might not completely eradicate the problem, but I suspect it might have mitigated it a bit.

Spoonless wrote:
As a side note, frequently bringing up your previous experience in FFXI and disparaging players who come from other, "easier" MMO backgrounds are probably going to get you downvoted on there as well. You should be fine with the more innocuous comments and questions, though. I'm not picking on you but those types of remarks, even in an otherwise decent post, tend to make people downvote, ignore the rest of your post, and move on.
I tend to agree, especially with the first sentence. After reading through the OP's posts in a particular thread in FFXIV, s/he did get fairly adversarial, especially towards casuals.


Oh, and of all the boards on here that I have frequented for any length of time, FFXIV is probably the one where I've seen the admins take the heaviest hand when dealing with the community. I don't think I've seen everywhere else where they step in nearly as much as they do there. Sure, maybe there are places where they converse just as much, but not to the level of intervening as mods on quite that scale.
#20 Dec 28 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Demoncard wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Demoncard wrote:
This whole rate up/down system does restrict free speech and promote sheepy behaviour.
Great, another person who learned constitutional law from Duck Dynasty.

Constitutions? On the internet? I didn't mention a constitution.

All I'm saying is that on forums without rating systems, people have more varied opinions and posts that aren't a rephrasing of what other highly rated people have posted.


I relatively rarely see opinion posts getting blasted unless they're genuinely stupid, not because they're disagreeing with the rater.

Exception, of course, being the FFXIV forum. Smiley: lol There you might get rated down just because you posted something and your name was blue.
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#21 Dec 28 2013 at 10:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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The FFXI and FFXIV forums tend to have an overall community that requests more administrator action than the other segments of the forums. Part of that is potentially due to population differentials, though even when the WoW forums were at their peak they didn't seem to have as many such requests. We try to keep things fairly common across the board segments with the exception of the Asylum, but we have always cracked down on things a bit more in the gaming forums since those are the ones you are more likely to see kids hanging out in, etc. Also there have historically been different personalities and board quirks at work. FFXI used to be absolutly death on some sort of windower modification. I have no idea what it was or why it was a big deal, but that topic probably caused more mutes in FFXI than it should have.
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#22 Dec 29 2013 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Rule number one of posting on Allakhazam: Karma doesn't matter. If you think it does, you're doing it wrong.
Rule number two of posting on Allakhazam: Only pansies filter posts.

Edited, Dec 29th 2013 2:06am by Turin
#23 Dec 29 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
The FFXI and FFXIV forums tend to have an overall community that requests more administrator action than the other segments of the forums. Part of that is potentially due to population differentials, though even when the WoW forums were at their peak they didn't seem to have as many such requests. We try to keep things fairly common across the board segments with the exception of the Asylum, but we have always cracked down on things a bit more in the gaming forums since those are the ones you are more likely to see kids hanging out in, etc. Also there have historically been different personalities and board quirks at work. FFXI used to be absolutly death on some sort of windower modification. I have no idea what it was or why it was a big deal, but that topic probably caused more mutes in FFXI than it should have.
I was mostly just commenting on the fact that admins are heavier handed(by request, it seems) on the boards where you're most likely to hear complaints that they aren't heavy handed enough.

I find that part interesting, more than anything.
#24 Dec 30 2013 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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We actually try to keep our bickering and in-fighting on the XIV board within ourselves/ to known posters - if someone is on post 1 and they post a question, they're not going to get jumped on because scaring off newbies is bad policy. (And even if it's a question some community members find stupid, karma doesn't affect you until post 10.)

Unfortunately, it's hard to shake off early first impressions.
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#26 Dec 30 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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XIV is an interesting animal, but your name is familiar to me and as a relatively new user, that can only mean one thing. You said something that left an impression in some thread or another. I tend to remember folks who are antagonistic.

The windower thing I think had something to do with SE directly asking ZAM to quash those discussions. At the time they had a REALLY hard line approach to anything that enhanced or modded their game. It was very heavy-handed and frankly, made Alla look bad that you were so afraid of losing "Square Enix Community's" half a post every 5 years that you followed what they wanted, but that's what it was and we all dealt with it. I think Pikko had told us why in vague and abstract terms once after a particularly bad round of nukes, and that's the gist of what I remember.

The boards on XIV are a mix of old elite XI players and newer players who are coming from other mmos. There will be personality clashes. There are already cliques. Don't worry too much about your karma and posts being below sub-default. I don't know anybody on this board who would actually be able to answer your questions that has sub-default posts filtered.

In fact, those are sometimes the highlight of the day.
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