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#1 Dec 17 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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There have been frequent complaints about the lack of moderation in the ffxi forums. Understandably so, since vlor is the only one who actively moderates any of them, and there's only so much he can do, which leaves very little moderation done. Most job/server forums are completely unmoderated, etc. It's simply impossible for vlor to effectively moderate one of the busiest forums on the site by himself, and unreasonable to expect him to.

In this thread i suggested that people use the report button more, as it of course is the easiest and fastest way to get admin attention. However as blowfin was getting it, it's just not really happening, at least not as much as it probably should, based on how often complaints come up.


Back in the ask an admin thread kao mentioned volunteer moderators, and it seems like that may be a decent option to explore for the ffxi forums. Being such an old game, i understand not wanting to hire admins for the game just to help moderate the forums. However i'm sure there are people who spend time on the forums anyway who wouldn't mind spending some time helping keep the quality of the forums up.

Although i rather dislike heavy moderation myself, and prefer the more hands off moderation that zam uses, it doesn't appear to be working too well for the ffxi forums, and i think even just one or two volunteers could help a lot.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 11:33pm by Kaolian Lock Thread: thread has been covered, so noted.
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#2 Dec 17 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?
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#3 Dec 17 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
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Pikko wrote:
Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?
I don't see why that's relevant.
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#4 Dec 17 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just find it ironic that most of the moderation work we do is because of you, yet here you are calling for more moderation.
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#5 Dec 17 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Rog is only doing this because no one else would, which was all started by a thread in =10. While Rog might be the source of "90%" of 11s moderation, that has to do because people make and derail pointless topics that should of been locked long before a scene is caused.
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#6 Dec 17 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
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That's not what i'm doing. I don't want more moderation. I think it's fine how it is. However many people don't think it's fine, which is why i made the thread; because the people who think it's a problem don't seem to be willing to make it.

Anyone who knows me at all knows i like to help people. This isn't the first time people have said that they think zam has abandoned ffxi, and doesn't care about it anymore. It's understandable that zam doesn't want to hire anyone for ffxi. However i think the only reason this wasn't suggested before was because no one was aware that zam had volunteer moderators. I wasn't aware myself until the ask an admin thread when kao mentioned it, and wasn't aware that there actually was any at all, until just a hour or so ago, when i saw a few names on the staff bios page. I made the suggestion because it helps both zam and the ffxi posters. It would allow better moderation, which many ffxi posters want, and it won't cost zam much/anything, which is great for them.

The fact that it could potentially work against me never even crossed my mind, and i'm insulted that you came here for nothing more than that. I am not the only, or even the worst person in the ffxi forums, i just happen to be the most active one. There was a problem, and i saw a viable, cost effective solution, that most people were not aware of was even an option, so i shared it. I have never been known for hiding information just because it would benefit me to do so. That you are surprised by me posting this simply proves that you do not know me very well.

Additionally, i have to question whether 90% of it is because of me, or 90% of it is related to me. For example, this thread has been derailed and turned into a thread about what i do, but i did nothing to cause it. Yet i am frequently blamed for derailing every single thread to be about me. I won't deny that a lot of problems are caused because i am here, but not all of them are caused by me, so much as people's hatred of me.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 6:46pm by ThePsychoticOne
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#7 Dec 17 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Additionally, i have to question whether 90% of it is because of me, or 90% of it is related to me. For example, this thread has been derailed and turned into a thread about what i do, but i did nothing to cause it. Yet i am frequently blamed for derailing every single thread to be about me. I won't deny that a lot of problems are caused because i am here, but not all of them are caused by me, so much as people's hatred of me.

To be fair, if you would quit making inflammatory remarks or generally just spamming, there probably wouldn't be nearly so much hatred of you, either. Whether it's what you do or how people react to you, the bottom line is still that you're directly or indirectly responsible for a **** of a lot of admin work.
#8 Dec 17 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Additionally, i have to question whether 90% of it is because of me, or 90% of it is related to me. For example, this thread has been derailed and turned into a thread about what i do, but i did nothing to cause it. Yet i am frequently blamed for derailing every single thread to be about me. I won't deny that a lot of problems are caused because i am here, but not all of them are caused by me, so much as people's hatred of me.

To be fair, if you would quit making inflammatory remarks or generally just spamming, there probably wouldn't be nearly so much hatred of you, either. Whether it's what you do or how people react to you, the bottom line is still that you're directly or indirectly responsible for a **** of a lot of admin work.


More people jsut want to attack Rog then he actually goe sout of his way to attack someone. Most of his threads lately have all derailed because someone who doesnt like him came in and started spouting crap, even though he did nothing.
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#9 Dec 17 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
Majivo wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Additionally, i have to question whether 90% of it is because of me, or 90% of it is related to me. For example, this thread has been derailed and turned into a thread about what i do, but i did nothing to cause it. Yet i am frequently blamed for derailing every single thread to be about me. I won't deny that a lot of problems are caused because i am here, but not all of them are caused by me, so much as people's hatred of me.

To be fair, if you would quit making inflammatory remarks or generally just spamming, there probably wouldn't be nearly so much hatred of you, either. Whether it's what you do or how people react to you, the bottom line is still that you're directly or indirectly responsible for a **** of a lot of admin work.
What's all this work that's happening? Someone reads a report and the reported post, probably reads the previous couple of posts to put things in context, apparently decides nothing is wrong (nobody is stepping to tell him to tone it down/no ban), then moves on.

But hey, lets say that is a lot of work: Who is causing more work for the admins? The poster, or the person frivolously reporting posts just because they have already formed an opinion of someone?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#10 Dec 18 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why do we even have a report admin posts button? Seriously.

So yeah, while you can report admin posts apperently, I would postulate the therom that it would be in your best interests not to do so unless you really, truly think the admin in qiestion is doing something worth a ban. For one, its going to annoy whoever you reported and all of their staff, who will probably proceed to karma camp you into oblivion, but it also annoys all the other admins as we rush dilligintly to do our job only to find that someone is reporting admins for no apperent reason. In particular this is a pet peave of mine because it irritates the crap out of me when I ban someone for cause and then they go and write a nasty letter to one of my bosses and I have to go through the whole issue of why they were removed, etc.

Also in an unrelated note, we do have two volunteer moderators, they can be found on the staff bios page.
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#11 Dec 18 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:

Also in an unrelated note, we do have two volunteer moderators, they can be found on the staff bios page.


Assuming you mean this staff bios page, who on that list is the volunteers? Unless there's more than 1 staff bios page for some reason.
#12 Dec 18 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Overburn wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:

Also in an unrelated note, we do have two volunteer moderators, they can be found on the staff bios page.


Assuming you mean this staff bios page, who on that list is the volunteers? Unless there's more than 1 staff bios page for some reason.
BeanX, and someproteinguy; the only two listed as moderators.
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#13 Dec 18 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Overburn wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:

Also in an unrelated note, we do have two volunteer moderators, they can be found on the staff bios page.


Assuming you mean this staff bios page, who on that list is the volunteers? Unless there's more than 1 staff bios page for some reason.
BeanX, and someproteinguy; the only two listed as moderators.


Forgot what we were talking about, only looked at the FFXI section then skimmed for the word volunteer.
#14 Dec 18 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Rog is only doing this because no one else would,


Reading the official responses I think its pretty obvious why nobody bothered, Zam is the Square Enix of the forum based fan sites.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 1:02pm by preludes
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#15 Dec 18 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
Rog is only doing this because no one else would,


Reading the official responses I think its pretty obvious why nobody bothered, Zam is the Square Enix of the forum based fan sites.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 1:02pm by preludes


Hey! thats totally not fair. Every single game I've ever written (all two of them!) Has had a jump button! Even my tetris clone!
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#16 Dec 18 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
preludes wrote:
Quote:
Rog is only doing this because no one else would,


Reading the official responses I think its pretty obvious why nobody bothered, Zam is the Square Enix of the forum based fan sites.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 1:02pm by preludes


Hey! thats totally not fair. Every single game I've ever written (all two of them!) Has had a jump button! Even my tetris clone!
Most Final Fantasy games do too! Well, not a button, but a command.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Jump

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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#17 Dec 18 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?


Out of curiousity, what percentage does it have to reach before he gets banned? 92%? 95%? I think these numbers should be within the community's reach.
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#18 Dec 18 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?


Out of curiousity, what percentage does it have to reach before he gets banned? 92%? 95%? I think these numbers should be within the community's reach.
Out of curiousity [sic], what percentage of your head are you trying to cram into Pikko's behind?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#19 Dec 18 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Erecia wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?


Out of curiousity, what percentage does it have to reach before he gets banned? 92%? 95%? I think these numbers should be within the community's reach.
Out of curiousity [sic], what percentage of your head are you trying to cram into Pikko's behind?


Ehhh... 10-15%, tops? Pikko's okay, but mostly I just like to see Rog squirm for what he has brought upon himself through a few months/years of genearl douche-baggery.
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#20 Dec 18 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
Erecia wrote:
Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Erecia wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Do you know that like 90% of the XI reports are complaints about you?


Out of curiousity, what percentage does it have to reach before he gets banned? 92%? 95%? I think these numbers should be within the community's reach.
Out of curiousity [sic], what percentage of your head are you trying to cram into Pikko's behind?


Ehhh... 10-15%, tops? Pikko's okay, but mostly I just like to see Rog squirm for what he has brought upon himself through a few months/years of genearl douche-baggery.
Even though, when you chip away the crassness of his posts, he's actually being helpful? Do you want the best advice or the most friendly advice?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#21 Dec 18 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Even though, when you chip away the crassness of his posts, he's actually being helpful? Do you want the best advice or the most friendly advice?

FFXI is, as Rog said in the thread he linked, old as **** by now. All of this information is already out there. At this point, posters are going to turn towards the most friendly advice, yes, because it exists and has the same quality as anything being offered here.
#22 Dec 18 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
So the nice advice is better than the right advice?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#23 Dec 18 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah, the old argument of "Be nice to n00bs" vs. "I'll post how I like"

Face it, if Rog were such a problem, he'd be banned. Stop trying to hang all your issues on one person. (And I hope Pikko's post was tongue-in-cheek...)

Honestly I have never seen either of the other two mods do anything in FFXI. I'd gladly offer up myself to do mod duty over there (I was a mod of my own forum, a mod on a few GuildPortal ones, as well as the Ken Burton Show forums), but I would be willing to bet good money that the admins would say **** NO so loudly that I'd here it all the way up here in the frozen wastes of Canadia Smiley: lol

But I'd agree that there needs to be more of a visible, tangible presence in the XI forums.
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#24 Dec 18 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
So the nice advice is better than the right advice?

The nice advice on another forum is the right advice. There are people out there who will deliver the exact same information without being an ******* about it.

Quote:
Face it, if Rog were such a problem, he'd be banned. Stop trying to hang all your issues on one person. (And I hope Pikko's post was tongue-in-cheek...)

If there were no spectrum in play here, sure. But it's not an instant "this guy did something wrong, ban him". You can be a problem without being banned, and you can be a problem who's quickly on the way to being banned.
#25 Dec 18 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
So the nice advice is better than the right advice?

The nice advice on another forum is the right advice. There are people out there who will deliver the exact same information without being an @#%^ about it.
I've tried that, then the same poster comes for the next piece. And the next. There are some who will take your advice as a jumping off point, and some who want you to spoonfeed them everything. Rog is of the school of thought that thinks that after being here for X years, when someone asks something like "Where's the AH in Bastok Markets?", you slap them with a trout as you point them in the right direction.

for me, it depends on my mood and how the question is asked. "Where is the AH in Bastok Markets?" will likely receive a politely worded reply, where as "were is the ah in bastok i need stuff" will likely have a bit of scorn heaped on...

Majivo wrote:
Quote:
Face it, if Rog were such a problem, he'd be banned. Stop trying to hang all your issues on one person. (And I hope Pikko's post was tongue-in-cheek...)

If there were no spectrum in play here, sure. But it's not an instant "this guy did something wrong, ban him". You can be a problem without being banned, and you can be a problem who's quickly on the way to being banned.
Kaolian moderates on the FFXI side. You've been here for a while, you should know better than that.

There are quite a few trolls living under the FFXI bridge (more now than ever), and despite their every post being a flame or jab at either FFXI, Alla, the mods, or a combination of the three, they are allowed to hang out. Rog is abrasive, but so is bsphil, so is jtftaru, and arguably, he's more knowledgeable than either of them.

Rog isn't flaming, breaking the filter, or annoying the mods more than anyone else.
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#26 Dec 19 2010 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
Majivo wrote:
Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
So the nice advice is better than the right advice?

The nice advice on another forum is the right advice. There are people out there who will deliver the exact same information without being an @#%^ about it.
The Hello Kitty Online forum?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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