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#1 Nov 30 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Are we no longer allowed to rate posts in the site feedback forum?
#2 Nov 30 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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No.

It was heavily abused and served no purpose on this forum. I've been meaning to remove it for a while. Recent events have caused me to finally do it.

It is not the purpose of karma to allow people to downrate posts when they simply disagree with them when the post itself is well thought out and formed. Especially on this forum where we want to encourage users to give us their feedback without fear of reprisal from some group of users with a mob mentality.

Admins maintain their ability to rate posts on this forum. I routinely rate up people who give clear, concise and useful feedback. Even if I strongly disagree with it. Except Rog.
#3 Nov 30 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd be guru by now if you rated all my feedback posts up Smiley: frown

Also, you should definitely leave the option to rate up, and just remove the rate down option.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 2:27pm by ThePsychoticOne
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#4 Nov 30 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Also, you should definitely leave the option to rate up, and just remove the rate down option.


This.

I see your point, but if someone posts a suggestion, it would be nice to be able to rate it up to show support instead of making a needless post saying, "Yeah, do it!"

But thanks for the heads up, nonetheless! I was a little worried my computer was going bonkers.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:30pm by Belkira
#5 Nov 30 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Should just have Like/Dislike buttons that show how many people like or dislike an idea, with no effect on karma.
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#6 Nov 30 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Should just have Like/Dislike buttons that show how many people like or dislike an idea, with no effect on karma.


Even better.
#7 Nov 30 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Should just have Like/Dislike buttons that show how many people like or dislike an idea, with no effect on karma.
<Insert rate up here>
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#8 Nov 30 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Kirby, Star Breaker wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Should just have Like/Dislike buttons that show how many people like or dislike an idea, with no effect on karma.
<Insert like here>
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#9 Nov 30 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Nizdaar wrote:
It is not the purpose of karma to allow people to downrate posts when they simply disagree with them when the post itself is well thought out and formed.


Have you seen the rest of the site?

Karma is broken and has been since ever. It serves no real purpose anymore. Bad posts get reported and removed. Sub-default posts are read anyway, because most people have the filter set to Never. Rating others up and down is only used to voice agreement and disagreement. And with enough posts, it doesn't matter what people rate you.

I'm not saying it should go, but the problem you saw on this forum is also a problem everywhere else.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 10:28pm by Mazra
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#10 Nov 30 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Nizdaar wrote:
It is not the purpose of karma to allow people to downrate posts when they simply disagree with them when the post itself is well thought out and formed.


Have you seen the rest of the site?

Karma is broken and has been since ever. It serves no real purpose anymore. Bad posts get reported and removed. Sub-default posts are read anyway, because most people have the filter set to Never. Rating others up and down is only used to voice agreement and disagreement. And with enough posts, it doesn't matter what people rate you.

I'm not saying it should go, but the problem you saw on this forum is also a problem everywhere else.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 10:28pm by Mazra


We're aware and have been discussing what to do about it. forum=3 is a different forum than most though so it was safe for me to remove the ability to rate from it without notice.
#11 Nov 30 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Nizdaar wrote:

We're aware and have been discussing what to do about it. forum=3 is a different forum than most though so it was safe for me to remove the ability to rate from it without notice.

I posted some of this in the thread in =10, but I figured it was relevant here as well:

There's a vBulliten-based board that I frequent that uses a reputations system. You can only dole out so much rep per 24 hours. You have to spread it around before you can give rep to the same poster again, and negative rep is reserved basically for flagrant abuse of board rules. Basically, those who make the most knowledgeable posts or what have you end up with a lot of positive rep, but those who aren't popular or whatever aren't penalized by having people bomb them with negative rep. They just don't get rated very often.

The other thing about the vBulliten rep system the other board uses is that you see who gave you rep in your User CP. When you take the anonymity out of the equation, people are generally less downrate happy. Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.

Combine this with some Like/Dislike buttons on individual posts that don't affect the posters' rep so people can continue to anonymously voice their agreement or displeasure with a post (because people do like to be able to say "I hate this" with a single click), and add in a thread rating system where you can rate the thread overall on a 5-star scale.
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#12 Nov 30 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.
Surely the most common reason is ".", right?
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#13 Nov 30 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.
Surely the most common reason is ".", right?
No, there's a minimum amount of characters, and the admins spank you if you don't have a valid reason for neg-repping someone.
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#14 Nov 30 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.
Surely the most common reason is ".", right?
No, there's a minimum amount of characters, and the admins spank you if you don't have a valid reason for neg-repping someone.
Minimum characters doesn't do jack ****. And i'm pretty sure alla is too big for that to be possible here.
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#15 Nov 30 2010 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?
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#16 Nov 30 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.

Smiley: lol

Does it really matter in the end? As long as people have the opportunity to voice their disagreement with another person through some sort of penalty system, however small that penalty might be, they're going to use and abuse it. In some forums, the same goes for positive ratings.
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#17 Nov 30 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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I rated Nizdaar up! Smiley: grin
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#18 Nov 30 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.
Surely the most common reason is ".", right?
No, there's a minimum amount of characters, and the admins spank you if you don't have a valid reason for neg-repping someone.
Minimum characters doesn't do jack sh*t. And i'm pretty sure alla is too big for that to be possible here.
Since the person who is on the receiving end can see who sent the rep and what the comment is, all it will take are a few 24-hr norates and some warnings when the system is initially implemented before it will calm down.

Or you could just not have a negative reputation option. Just have the Report Post button, and if something is so flagrant it deserves negative rep, the admins can impose it when they nuke the post.
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#19 Nov 30 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Also, while positive rep does not require a comment to be given out, negative rep does require you to put a comment in there or it won't go through. Basically, you have to justify your reasoning.
Surely the most common reason is ".", right?
No, there's a minimum amount of characters, and the admins spank you if you don't have a valid reason for neg-repping someone.
Minimum characters doesn't do jack sh*t. And i'm pretty sure alla is too big for that to be possible here.
Since the person who is on the receiving end can see who sent the rep and what the comment is, all it will take are a few 24-hr norates and some warnings when the system is initially implemented before it will calm down.

Or you could just not have a negative reputation option. Just have the Report Post button, and if something is so flagrant it deserves negative rep, the admins can impose it when they nuke the post.
Yeah, that will never happen.
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#20 Dec 01 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Also, you should definitely leave the option to rate up, and just remove the rate down option.


This.

I see your point, but if someone posts a suggestion, it would be nice to be able to rate it up to show support instead of making a needless post saying, "Yeah, do it!"

But thanks for the heads up, nonetheless! I was a little worried my computer was going bonkers.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:30pm by Belkira
or put both back, but make the rate down arrow actually rate up, so either will rate up a post. Or just put one arrow back, but make it blue and facing sideways, just to **** with people. Smiley: lol
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#21 Dec 01 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lady Jinte wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
Also, you should definitely leave the option to rate up, and just remove the rate down option.


This.

I see your point, but if someone posts a suggestion, it would be nice to be able to rate it up to show support instead of making a needless post saying, "Yeah, do it!"

But thanks for the heads up, nonetheless! I was a little worried my computer was going bonkers.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 1:30pm by Belkira
or put both back, but make the rate down arrow actually rate up, so either will rate up a post. Or just put one arrow back, but make it blue and facing sideways, just to @#%^ with people. Smiley: lol


Might as well just make it spin so you can play russian roulette with people's karma.
#22 Dec 01 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah - there's been some heavy discussion about it recently, and in general (as you've probably noticed) a lot of discussion on how to make things better without taking away what made Alla/ZAM unique.
#23 Dec 01 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?


Mazra wrote:
Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.


Sure, why not?
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#24 Dec 01 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?


Mazra wrote:
Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.


Sure, why not?


Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad
#25 Dec 01 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Nizdaar wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?


Mazra wrote:
Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.


Sure, why not?


Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad


well, you could always go the route of:
"1 Person Agrees with this post"
"87 People Disagree with this post"
"9 People Because Purple"
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#26 Dec 01 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Nizdaar wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?

Mazra wrote:
Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.

Sure, why not?

Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad
Well, it could be more similar to Youtube and just have a Green Arrow icon and a Red Arrow icon with numbers next to them.
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#27 Dec 02 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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Nizdaar wrote:
Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
So you guys want to go the way of Facebook?


Mazra wrote:
Smiley: thumbsup 1 person likes this.


Sure, why not?


Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad
I'm rating you down with my mind.
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#28 Dec 02 2010 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Nizdaar wrote:
Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad
You've become lolgaxe's favorite admin.
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#29 Dec 02 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Lady Jinte wrote:
well, you could always go the route of:
"1 Person Agrees with this post"
"87 People Disagree with this post"
"9 People Accidentally A Whole Post"
Fixed that for you.

But more seriously...

I could see moving away from rate-downs... but then you are moving away from a staple of the forum and towards some other forum. You could do thank you's like Dreams in Vana'Diel and HUPIT Gaming. You could do a REP system like some vBulletin boards. But regardless, you'll be doing a system LIKE X.

I guess you could steal YouTube's old 5-star system...
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#30 Dec 03 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Darqflame wrote:
I rated Nizdaar up! Smiley: grin


I rated DF down because she rated Niz up. Smiley: grin
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#31 Dec 03 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bludwyng wrote:
Mistress Darqflame wrote:
I rated Nizdaar up! Smiley: grin


I rated DF down because she rated Niz up. Smiley: grin


Back at ya...
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#32 Dec 03 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup Delivers on Time wrote:
I could see moving away from rate-downs... but then you are moving away from a staple of the forum and towards some other forum.
Yeah, but when the "staple of the forum" is useless and discouraging to new posters, you should probably move away from it. I doubt anyone really uses the filter system, and we now have Ignore if there is a poster or three whom we don't want to read regularly. I'm sure you could do away with a rating system completely and be fine. I still think there's some merit in giving people the ability to rate individual posts and threads overall, but I don't think that those things should affect a poster's standing on the site.

Perhaps you could move towards a title system to replace the Scholar/Sage/Guru system based on something like number of posts in certain forums, or number of Wiki edits. Or just have those things unlock specific title sets or something silly.
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#33 Dec 03 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nizdaar wrote:
Because Nizdaar hates all things social networking. Smiley: mad
You've become lolgaxe's favorite admin.
I was going to make some sort of witty joke about Karma and my rivalry with gaxey, but I can't think of anything good. I'm going to second the Russian Roulette Karma game, though.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#34 Dec 04 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless of the Seven Seas wrote:
Pawkeshup Delivers on Time wrote:
I could see moving away from rate-downs... but then you are moving away from a staple of the forum and towards some other forum.
Yeah, but when the "staple of the forum" is useless and discouraging to new posters, you should probably move away from it.


I've said it before, I'll say it again: If the fear of losing imaginary points and a fictional title on a forum on the internet somehow prevents you from posting what you want, perhaps you should realign your life priorities, or in fact get a life.
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#35 Dec 05 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup Delivers on Time wrote:
I've said it before, I'll say it again: If the fear of losing imaginary points and a fictional title on a forum on the internet somehow prevents you from posting what you want, perhaps you should realign your life priorities, or in fact get a life.
Sure, this is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that many new posters are that thin-skinned, and ZAM is a business. Eliminating the imaginary point system overall will likely gain more users than it will lose.
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