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#1 Sep 02 2013 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Greetings fellow Warriors of Light! Here I'd like to extend and open a forum for various WAR related discussions and questions about this job. While I cannot speak well for any other class/job in the game, I've been playing MRD then into WAR exclusively. However I am by no means a expert on this job. Things I'd like to discuss:

-Tanking Strategy

-Helpful Macro Set-up

-Attribute Point Allocation

-Crafting Benefits

-Additional Class Ability Use

-Gear

I'd like to start off the discussion, but I've not the time to devote in writing it up at this time. But if anyone does, feel free to begin!





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#2 Sep 02 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Attribute point wise I've been doing for 3 VIT put 1 into STR. Which I feel works quite nicely though I would be interested to see what others have been doing.

I currently cross class Provoke, Flash, Second Wind and Feather foot these are quite useful for tanking I find not sure which I will add 50 maybe the Crit hit one from PUG to improve damage to help grind down bosses a little bit.
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Ogri - Lakshmi - 75WAR,75PLD,75NIN, 75MNK

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#3 Sep 02 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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I feel like such a nub ( i am actually, first time playing any FF game ) Do we gain ability points every level? if so.. i'm level 30 and have not spent a single point lol!
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#4 Sep 02 2013 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Darklyon wrote:
I feel like such a nub ( i am actually, first time playing any FF game ) Do we gain ability points every level? if so.. i'm level 30 and have not spent a single point lol!


Relax! And welcome to the game and these forums, friend!

If you look over your character menu screen, you'll see along side where it says Attributes there is a + symbol followed by the word bonus, and a numerical digit. If you click on the + you can put said points to your attribute totals. Each class/job is different, so you don't have to worry about it being a set thing for each class, just the class/job you are currently on.

OgriLak wrote:
Attribute point wise I've been doing for 3 VIT put 1 into STR. Which I feel works quite nicely though I would be interested to see what others have been doing.

I currently cross class Provoke, Flash, Second Wind and Feather foot these are quite useful for tanking I find not sure which I will add 50 maybe the Crit hit one from PUG to improve damage to help grind down bosses a little bit.


I think most agree, if not overly allocate points into VIT. I've done the opposite! I've put mostly into STR only because I feel the benefit into STR for a tank maybe better than just HP which VIT only offers. It's not like it is helping me take damage less, just have more HP to take more damage.. which from a healer standpoint maybe not necessary given the increase to blocking/parry STR provides. Not to mention the damage done tacked on helps in it's own way. I'm not a math guy, so I can't say that one is overly better than the other at this point. Given the lack of data so far, perhaps no one is saying until more testing can be done end game? Either way, we can always change this if needed on our characters... so right now it's go with what you think is best.

In regards to additional ability from other classes, I've not really put much extra enmity abilities up other than Flash. I actually feel what I have get's the job done, with flash, and overpower.. tomahawk on pulls, and our single target moves of skull sunder and butcher's block.. not to leave out our stance of defiance. My cycle has been (at level 37) pulling a single target with tomahawk (after marking mobs before pull mind you) and gather them with a flash, and all together in front with a overpower. Enmity is set on all at this point, and I can work on my marked number 1 target.
Healer can pull aggro on the others during this so I'll lay down another overpower in between a combo cycle of heavy swing/ skull sunder and butcher's block. If aggro is made to anyone else.. Flash them up and lay down an overpower again. Then I just go back to my combo routine. If I can manage it, I'll throw up the fracture and work in a maim or a bit of better DPS.. not a priority of course. Naturally, I work around mobs that are casters, have particularly bad AoE moves and patrols that wander in. It goes without saying that running dungeons over and over helps learn the layout.

Food.. not used too much, but I know I need to eventually, as well as materia.. but not a crafter at this point, I have nothing to offer myself, and hate to pay a large amount for something that will be gone in 5 levels. At 50, or even 45.. yes, it'll be included. I haven't had an issue yet not having them.
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"The game is fun as hell to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad mofo. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#5 Sep 02 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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I put all points into VIT. You really really really need lots of Hp, many boss attacks are unblockable/parryable and hit like a truck. Not all attacks are avoidable either, or very hard to. More Hp = even more Hp with ability and % Hp regen ability = even better. As a WAR, you want Defiance always on which reduce your damage by 25% and increase your Hp/Enmity by 25% so tell me why bother with STR?

Food, you want VIT/Critical rate/Parry. So far I haven't seen anything that require so much Acc that some Acc bonus from accessories can't handle.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 7:27pm by Khornette
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#6 Sep 02 2013 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
I put all points into VIT. You really really really need lots of Hp, many boss attacks are unblockable/parryable and hit like a truck. Not all attacks are avoidable either, or very hard to. More Hp = even more Hp with ability and % Hp regen ability = even better. As a WAR, you want Defiance always on which reduce your damage by 25% and increase your Hp/Enmity by 25% so tell me why bother with STR?

Food, you want VIT/Critical rate/Parry. So far I haven't seen anything that require so much Acc that some Acc bonus from accessories can't handle.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 7:27pm by Khornette



I believe 30 points allocated into VIT comes to 300HP? That's not a lot really.. it's more, but not a huge difference. Same could be said for the STR output. I think it's roughly 2% with the points allocated into it. Not a huge amount but it's possible they both just don't matter that much.There is math out there, and viewing both sides of the argument equally I can only conclude that it's a matter of personal preference. Perhaps that is the intended design.
Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 1:55am by Magilicotti

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 2:05am by Magilicotti
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"The game is fun as hell to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad mofo. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#7 Sep 03 2013 at 1:58 AM Rating: Good
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30 VIT = 420 base HP. Boss attack could hit upward 5k+ dmg and you need every squeeze to survive some impossible to avoid.
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#8 Sep 03 2013 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Again, it's a matter of personal preference because the numbers for both at max level are by and large negligible. Do you want better damage migration or more hit points to take damage? 420 hit points when, as you state, a boss will hit your for 5k is what.. a little over 8% of your health? How much is being migrated already by Protect? Food? Armor?

I say this. If you were to run two exact same and identical WAR's on the same boss fight, one had their points in STR and the other VIT, you'd not notice the overall difference in that fight.
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"The game is fun as hell to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad mofo. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#9 Sep 03 2013 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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There are times you will notice that one without VIT could potentially OHKO because STR only provide mitigation if you parry. Many attacks are not parry-able (magic). Having 400 Hp left after the attack is plenty of reason why you want VIT.

420 * 1.25 = 525 Hp (Defiance), and with the Hp Buff (Thrill of Battle) it's 609 Hp extra. That is if Thrill of Battle only calculate using base Hp. 609 Hp might be the threshold between life and death.
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#10 Sep 03 2013 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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It really does boil down to your play style/preference for STR v. VIT. But a couple things to consider is where the stats are going to effect your abilities. I prefer to run with Second Wind from PUG and Convalescence from GLD so having the increased VIT help me there, bigger heals for the HP pool, and I think the math I've seen so far is that the amount of STR it take to reach the next tier for it being useful for parry is something like 15 points or more.

On the macro side of things I like having an 'OH SH*T" macro.
/ac Convalescence <me>
/wait 1
/ac Second Wind <me>
/p Ouch that hurt

Anyone else running anything they find helpful, I use that macro on boss fights with the pugs I've been getting lately.
#11 Sep 05 2013 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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Kumixo wrote:
It really does boil down to your play style/preference for STR v. VIT. But a couple things to consider is where the stats are going to effect your abilities. I prefer to run with Second Wind from PUG and Convalescence from GLD so having the increased VIT help me there, bigger heals for the HP pool, and I think the math I've seen so far is that the amount of STR it take to reach the next tier for it being useful for parry is something like 15 points or more.

On the macro side of things I like having an 'OH SH*T" macro.
/ac Convalescence <me>
/wait 1
/ac Second Wind <me>
/p Ouch that hurt

Anyone else running anything they find helpful, I use that macro on boss fights with the pugs I've been getting lately.


I would actually add Berserk to that, if you want to make sure you get max healing, because Second Wind healing is based on attack power, and Berserk increases AP by 50%, meaning it increases SW healing by 50%, on top of the 20% from Conv.

I've had SW crit for over 600 using that combo before.

On a related note, I had Inner Beast crit heal me for nearly 1500 last night. That was pretty cool. I also topped out over 5k hp in my full AF.

Oh, and I hit 50too. Did my final WAR quest, and saw how awesome Storm's Eye is. It synergizes SO WELL it's insane. It's yet another damage boost to Inner Beast. I imagine with Conv, Berserk, Maim and SE all up, you could see crit Inner Beast's heal for over 2k.
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#12 Sep 06 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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I think most agree, if not overly allocate points into VIT. I've done the opposite! I've put mostly into STR only because I feel the benefit into STR for a tank maybe better than just HP which VIT only offers. It's not like it is helping me take damage less, just have more HP to take more damage.. which from a healer standpoint maybe not necessary given the increase to blocking/parry STR provides


But if you think about it, the more VIT a WAR has the better, it affects not only your base HP but also all of our self heal abilities, curing we take and most importantly the defiance buff. Higher base means the healers heals with be more effective with Wrath stacks and Convalescence going. Same thing for Bloodbath and Inner Beast!!!!.

Str adds more damage and more parry, STR will help with threat but I just don't foresee that as a problem and parry I think is a joke, an afterthought at best.

With my napkin math it looks like VIT is the way to go for WAR but STR is the better way to go for PLD since it affects both parry and more importantly block.

Now keep in mind I just hit level 30 so I am no means a pro at this yet but................

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 1:33pm by Techsupport
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


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#13 Sep 07 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Cross-class skills, here's what I'm running at 50:

Second Wind (obvious, self-heal that can be buffed by Convalescence and Berserk)
Featherfeet (nice defensive CD)
Convalescence (good synergy with self-heals, Bloodbath, Inner Beast, as well as helping ease the burden on healers during tough fights)
Flash (pbaoe hate generator that doesn't break CC and can be used during the pacify from Berserk)
Internal Release (low cooldown DPS buff that also buffs our self-heals)

I've heard of some people using Provoke, but I've never been in a situation where I would have needed it. Overpower, Flash, Steel Cyclone and communication keeps hate right where it should be; on me.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
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i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#14 Sep 10 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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Stats wise there is no argument to be made here: VIT is the only option.

To prove this point, HM Titan has an ability he uses roughly every 30s after a certain point which will do 4.5k to a warrior, and we can't mitigate it. If you're running all str you will simply not survive this fight or any other endgame fight.
#15 Sep 12 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Speaking of stat allocation, where do you go to reset those, when I started way back when I had an even mix of STR and VIT, want to get that corrected.
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Quote:
WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


Quote:
When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.
#16 Sep 12 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Techsupport wrote:
Speaking of stat allocation, where do you go to reset those, when I started way back when I had an even mix of STR and VIT, want to get that corrected.


You can buy a reset scroll from your GC quartermaster npc. They're 10k seals.
#17 Sep 18 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Heavenscalamity wrote:
Stats wise there is no argument to be made here: VIT is the only option.


If all VIT was the only option, then there wouldn't be an option to begin with. Smiley: sly


Now I will say however that yes, I do believe VIT is is quite important to a WAR. I'm just saying these bonus attribute points are not the make and break difference people make them out to be.
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"The game is fun as hell to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad mofo. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#18 Sep 18 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Default
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Magilicotti wrote:
Heavenscalamity wrote:
Stats wise there is no argument to be made here: VIT is the only option.


If all VIT was the only option, then there wouldn't be an option to begin with. Smiley: sly


Now I will say however that yes, I do believe VIT is is quite important to a WAR. I'm just saying these bonus attribute points are not the make and break difference people make them out to be.


While I agree with your sentiment, in this case the 30 VIT is an absolutely make or break difference in endgame content. And for every job doing endgame content, the 30 points into your primary stat is a make or break difference.
#19 Sep 24 2013 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
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We'll agree to disagree then, friend. Bonus attribute points are just that. A bonus. Given stats from the class/job, gear, food, potions, etc are higher in priority than that from the bonus points for me. You wouldn't tell people to be a Roegadyn Sea Wolf just because they have the highest natural VIT, right?
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"The game is fun as hell to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad mofo. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#20 Sep 24 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
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Magilicotti wrote:
We'll agree to disagree then, friend. Bonus attribute points are just that. A bonus. Given stats from the class/job, gear, food, potions, etc are higher in priority than that from the bonus points for me. You wouldn't tell people to be a Roegadyn Sea Wolf just because they have the highest natural VIT, right?



The max race stat differential at level 50 is about 10, where as the bonus stat allocation is 30. Comparing the two is pointless and not the discussion.
#21 Sep 28 2013 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Heavenscalamity wrote:
Magilicotti wrote:
We'll agree to disagree then, friend. Bonus attribute points are just that. A bonus. Given stats from the class/job, gear, food, potions, etc are higher in priority than that from the bonus points for me. You wouldn't tell people to be a Roegadyn Sea Wolf just because they have the highest natural VIT, right?



The max race stat differential at level 50 is about 10, where as the bonus stat allocation is 30. Comparing the two is pointless and not the discussion.


No, it is the point of the discussion. 10 points is 10 more points on top of your 30 making 40 total. (hooray basic math!) If your attitude on this is "well it's just 10 points" then I submit that 30 points is also "just 30 points". When compared to every other game mechanic that adds to your VIT totals, the bonus point allocation is just as it reads... a bonus. Not a requirement. I know you feel you have to have these points allocated in VIT, but I got a WAR here and I can show you that I do not.

I'll again say we are allowed our opinions and I'll not tell you that you are incorrect for yours. But I'll not sit by and have you tell everyone that you must do it this way or you're wrong.
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#22 Sep 28 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Default
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Magilicotti wrote:
Heavenscalamity wrote:
Magilicotti wrote:
We'll agree to disagree then, friend. Bonus attribute points are just that. A bonus. Given stats from the class/job, gear, food, potions, etc are higher in priority than that from the bonus points for me. You wouldn't tell people to be a Roegadyn Sea Wolf just because they have the highest natural VIT, right?



The max race stat differential at level 50 is about 10, where as the bonus stat allocation is 30. Comparing the two is pointless and not the discussion.


No, it is the point of the discussion. 10 points is 10 more points on top of your 30 making 40 total. (hooray basic math!) If your attitude on this is "well it's just 10 points" then I submit that 30 points is also "just 30 points". When compared to every other game mechanic that adds to your VIT totals, the bonus point allocation is just as it reads... a bonus. Not a requirement. I know you feel you have to have these points allocated in VIT, but I got a WAR here and I can show you that I do not.

I'll again say we are allowed our opinions and I'll not tell you that you are incorrect for yours. But I'll not sit by and have you tell everyone that you must do it this way or you're wrong.


If you want to actually progress in endgame, then there is only one option, at least at our current gear level. You can have an opinion all you want, but you're incorrect in assuming str is viable. Enjoy getting oneshot in coil with your 30 str.
#23 Sep 29 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I like how you believe the one shot difference is 30 points of VIT. Because it is not. You cannot supply any data that supports that. No. You can't. You can tell me what you think all you like, but it doesn't make it true.

At this point, I am starting to question your use of WAR properly if only from your posts here. I'll also admit you are further in progression end game then I so I'll give you some credit where credit is due in that regard. Me questioning your use of WAR is simply by your lack of information and explanations. A WAR only needs enough HP to survive the incoming damage. Our STR is directly involved in this job's ability to migrate said damage. You can't just throw a ton of HP and expect the healer(s) to take care of you. You'll only see pissed off healers at this point and wanting you to be replaced with a PLD because that is what they do.

Remember that Berserk increases your Attack Power and not Damage. So for every point you stack into STR (1:1 Ratio with Attack Power) You will be getting an extra 50% with Berserk, which buffs your Second Wind, Inner Beast HP Absorb. Our job is to replace that HP loss, not migrate it as a PLD does.. for that is impossible.



Edited, Sep 30th 2013 3:38am by Magilicotti
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#24 Sep 30 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Default
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Magilicotti wrote:
I like how you believe the one shot difference is 30 points of VIT. Because it is not. You cannot supply any data that supports that. No. You can't. You can tell me what you think all you like, but it doesn't make it true.

At this point, I am starting to question your use of WAR properly if only from your posts here. I'll also admit you are further in progression end game then I so I'll give you some credit where credit is due in that regard. Me questioning your use of WAR is simply by your lack of information and explanations. A WAR only needs enough HP to survive the incoming damage. Our STR is directly involved in this job's ability to migrate said damage. You can't just throw a ton of HP and expect the healer(s) to take care of you. You'll only see pissed off healers at this point and wanting you to be replaced with a PLD because that is what they do.

Remember that Berserk increases your Attack Power and not Damage. So for every point you stack into STR (1:1 Ratio with Attack Power) You will be getting an extra 50% with Berserk, which buffs your Second Wind, Inner Beast HP Absorb. Our job is to replace that HP loss, not migrate it as a PLD does.. for that is impossible.



Edited, Sep 30th 2013 3:38am by Magilicotti


Where are you in Coil as your warrior? Because I'm in turn 5(and can prove it). EVERY single progression tank, whether warrior or paladin, is all VIT. Please stop talking.
#25 Sep 30 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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Ah, I see. You are one of those types, eh? The "I'm end game progression so I know all and are better than you" players. I've already credited you with being further along progression than I. I know on the O-boards and the WoW forums you're use to acting as such, but 'round these parts, we like to have discussions and debate aspects of the game. Now you can belittle me all you like but I'll take a stab in the dark and say that the reason you have a default rating with these forums is because you tend to say things that are not very well received.

Now granted, you have hands on experience with the end game content whereas I do not. What you've been able to put into practice I've only studied, but I will tell you this and now, besides the not having done it part.. I have all the knowledge. I know the progression route. I know the encounters. The trash. Their mechanics. The bosses, like-wise, their mechanics. I know what you should be wearing. Food to use. Potions, etc,.. So how about you step away from the ego, and try to properly debate your side of things rather than becoming crass. Mmkay?

Firstly, how about you tell me some of your stats. Your HP total buffed (as in ready to tank) and not buffed (standing in town staring your Miqo'te Retainer.) Cause I can show you a neat trick when you do. I can tell you the following;

- What armor your using (which is common knowledge if you are running Coil turn 4/5)
- What Food you are using (Really not much to choose from at this point)
- What potions you use (again, only a couple of choices here)
- What Materia slotted (This will depend on a few things but I can take a wild guess what you have)
- What Stat points allocated (but I guess we already know what you picked, eh?)

Furthermore, I'll (finally) be able to understand what it is that makes you stack VIT so much. Because I can tell you (provided you answered the above as it should be answered given your progression) how much damage the encounters hit you for. Because there is only 3 options available. Either you have too little HP and are getting the one shot. Or you have enough to take that nasty spike damage, but still enough just left over to survive. Or you got so much damn HP you felt that spike damage as a tickle.

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