Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Ninjutsu Spell ideaFollow

#1 Aug 26 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,275 posts
Just an idea I had last night, thought I'd toss it out here. I figure that now that the level cap is almost to the maximum, it wouldn't be overpowered to give Ninja some form of self-targeted status curing ability.

Kyukaku: Ichi (Nin lvl 65, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu (Goldsmithing), removes one status ailment (can remove Blindness, Poison, Plague, Virus, Paralysis, Max MP down, Max HP down, Amnesia, Stat-down effects or black magic spells like Burn, Shock and Drown, has a slight chance of removing Doom effect). Grants a Regen effect which enhances in potency and duration with every Status ailment cured through Kyukaku (up to 3 times).

Kyukaku: Ni (Nin lvl 93, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu, cures two status ailments (same as Ichi version). Grants a Regen effect (larger HP/tick return, stacks with Ichi version, enhances in potency and duration as per Ichi version).

Edited, Aug 26th 2011 1:29pm by GailC
____________________________
Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
[quote=Master ketrel]Its just an emote you sick son of a ****
#2 Aug 27 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,726 posts
How about a spell, whose items are those tacks ninjas toss out behind them, that slows or temporarily stops a monster that is pursuing a ninja? Could an enemy's movement speed be factored into whether a spell lands or not?

It's either that or giving Ninja nunchucks. It can happen, just create a special type of staff (similar to how sais are classified).
____________________________
=================================================
Somewhere out there, there is a road with 2 signs on it. One says "No Trespassing". The sign right next to it says "FREE KITTENS".
=================================================
#3 Aug 27 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,275 posts
Quote:
How about a spell, whose items are those tacks ninjas toss out behind them, that slows or temporarily stops a monster that is pursuing a ninja? Could an enemy's movement speed be factored into whether a spell lands or not?


I believe they already use caltrops (makibishi) for Doton: Ichi and Ni. I like the idea of a gravity spell though, perhaps using Bola-type tools to snare the target's legs and reduce movement speed.

Quote:
It's either that or giving Ninja nunchucks. It can happen, just create a special type of staff (similar to how sais are classified).


I'm divided on how best to implement nunchucks, because I think it would be quite fun to see in the game. I like the idea of making them a staff, but I think they would be better classified as a club, since it would be possible to dual wield them IRL. However, I think they would work best mechanically if they operate like a hand to hand weapon, since I think the benefit of nunchucks would be that they can be transferred from one hand to the other very easily, allowing for two attacks with a slightly higher delay in between, much like hand to hand works. Its sort of like how Kama type weapons use Katana mechanics in FFXI (reverse gripped, uses Katana skill, Nin exclusive) when it would more accurately be classified as an axe-type weapon, or even a class of weapon all their own, one-handed scythes. Because it makes more sense for Ninjas to be running around with kama-type weapons than dark knights, I think they did the best thing and just made them katanas.

So in the end, while I think Staff is the simplest answer (two handed blunt weapon), and Club is the truest answer to life in terms of the actual weapon itself (baton swung to cause blunt trauma), mechanically I think they work best as Hand to Hand weapons (equipped in primary slot but uses both hands to wield, increases the delay of attacks but attacks mutiple times rapidly in succession when an attack is made, etc.).

Make them Mnk/Nin exclusive as well. The only thing I don't like about making them Hand to Hand, though, is that you can't dual wield them.
____________________________
Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
[quote=Master ketrel]Its just an emote you sick son of a ****
#4 Aug 27 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,597 posts
zoogelio wrote:
It's either that or giving Ninja nunchucks. It can happen, just create a special type of staff (similar to how sais are classified).

I would rather have sickle & chain weapons.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#5 Aug 29 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Default
Sage
***
3,636 posts
GailC wrote:
it wouldn't be overpowered to give Ninja some form of self-targeted status curing ability.

Yes, it would.
____________________________
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
#6 Aug 30 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
Erecia wrote:
GailC wrote:
it wouldn't be overpowered to give Ninja some form of self-targeted status curing ability.

Yes, it would.


/dnc already gives a form of stat curing, so a native stat cure JA for NIN main isn't too far fetched imo. Just saying.

Now do i think SE would give NIN one? Doubt it, they seem to be on a "work together" tear when its comes to their thinking on adding JA/traits/etc atm. NIN/DNC is straddling the line of too much self-sufficiency already and while i don't think the OP's suggestion would push said combo full-on into being broken-it definitively take it right up to the edge.
____________________________
[ffxisig]10000[/ffxisig]
----------------------------------
One of my server's brightest minds... wrote:
Not to make too extreme a comparison, but Rog is like Nelson Mandella...


Quite possibly the DUMBEST thing i've ever read.
#7 Aug 30 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Default
Sage
***
3,636 posts
spiritreaverdiablos the Irrelevant wrote:
Erecia wrote:
GailC wrote:
it wouldn't be overpowered to give Ninja some form of self-targeted status curing ability.

Yes, it would.


/dnc already gives a form of stat curing, so a native stat cure JA for NIN main isn't too far fetched imo. Just saying.

The fact that it requires a subjob choice to gain that ability is the entire point. Go NIN/DNC if you want, but that means you can't be NIN/WAR and lose out on offensive options.
____________________________
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
#8 Aug 30 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
****
5,597 posts
Erecia wrote:
spiritreaverdiablos the Irrelevant wrote:
Erecia wrote:
GailC wrote:
it wouldn't be overpowered to give Ninja some form of self-targeted status curing ability.

Yes, it would.


/dnc already gives a form of stat curing, so a native stat cure JA for NIN main isn't too far fetched imo. Just saying.

The fact that it requires a subjob choice to gain that ability is the entire point. Go NIN/DNC if you want, but that means you can't be NIN/WAR and lose out on offensive options.

You could go NIN/WAR and use Catholicons/Remedies. Guess those are owerpowered and need to be nerfed!

Seriously though, whether this would be overpowered or not is the wrong question to ask. Is it even necessary? Will it improve the game overall? Does NIN need this? I think the answer to all of those questions are "No".
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#9 Aug 30 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
NIN's Mythic weapon is the sickle/chain

Nagi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama
____________________________
DRG75/RDM75/PLD75


One to be born
from a dragon
hoisting the light
and the dark
arises high
up in the sky
to the still land.
Veiling the moon with the light of eternity
it brings another promise to mother Earth
with a bounty and mercy.
#10 Aug 31 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,275 posts
Quote:
The fact that it requires a subjob choice to gain that ability is the entire point. Go NIN/DNC if you want, but that means you can't be NIN/WAR and lose out on offensive options.


/Dnc gives much more than a self-target healing waltz though. Healing Waltz can target others. In addition, subbing /War you would lose out on potent self and other-targeted cures that cannot be interrupted (except maybe through an exactly timed Stun, I don't know) and Haste/Drain Samba, for example. Having the ability to self cure status ailments isn't going to make Nin/War as viable a choice for self-sufficiency as Nin/Dnc, but it would give Nin some more tactical options when not subbing /Dnc.

Quote:
Is it even necessary? Will it improve the game overall? Does NIN need this? I think the answer to all of those questions are "No".


It's not necessary in the least. As to whether or not it will improve the game, or whether Ninja needs this spell, probably no more than giving Thieves an Intimidation JA and giving a self-targeting double attack spell to Redmage would improve the game or the jobs themselves. Similar to how giving ninjas Monomi wasn't necessary since it came out around the same time as Dancer (for Specrtal Jig), but they did it because there wasn't really a good reason for Ninja not to have it.

I figure if they're looking to implement abilities for Ninja to "turn aside enemy attacks," something like status curing would fit right in with their vision for Nin's future.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 1:51pm by GailC
____________________________
Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
[quote=Master ketrel]Its just an emote you sick son of a ****
#11 Aug 31 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,597 posts
GailC wrote:
Quote:
Is it even necessary? Will it improve the game overall? Does NIN need this? I think the answer to all of those questions are "No".


It's not necessary in the least. As to whether or not it will improve the game, or whether Ninja needs this spell, probably no more than giving Thieves an Intimidation JA and giving a self-targeting double attack spell to Redmage would improve the game or the jobs themselves. Similar to how giving ninjas Monomi wasn't necessary since it came out around the same time as Dancer (for Specrtal Jig), but they did it because there wasn't really a good reason for Ninja not to have it.

In the case of Monomi, there was a reason in favor of adding it: NIN already had Invisible through Tonko. An ability to remove status ailments from yourself is not in the same situation as Monomi/Sneak. It might be if NIN already had some kind of spell or ability to heal itself. But it doesn't.

Meanwhile, we could make the case that there are good reasons against adding an ability for NINs to remove status ailments from themselves: doing so would hurt the demand for jobs which fill the role of support.

GailC wrote:
I figure if they're looking to implement abilities for Ninja to "turn aside enemy attacks," something like status curing would fit right in with their vision for Nin's future.

I would consider a spell that behaves more like Utsusemi to be more in line with that vision of NIN. The spell would be a self buff that acts as a TP move based status ailment "shadow". When a mob does a TP move that inflicts status ailments, all status ailments from that one TP move are absorbed by the "shadow", and the buff goes away.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#12 Aug 31 2011 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,275 posts
Quote:
I would consider a spell that behaves more like Utsusemi to be more in line with that vision of NIN. The spell would be a self buff that acts as a TP move based status ailment "shadow". When a mob does a TP move that inflicts status ailments, all status ailments from that one TP move are absorbed by the "shadow", and the buff goes away.


I really, really like this idea :)

I was also toying around with the idea of making the spell cost HP to cast, but having it Regen the HP slowly, plus a little over the top. The reason for this is that Kyukaku is a Japanese method of therapeutic blood letting, so I figure a little HP loss would make thematic sense and also curb the power a little bit. You could remove the Regen effect completely and I wouldn't mind, I think your "status shadow" idea is much better than what I had going.

How does this sound?

Kyukaku: Ichi (Nin lvl 65, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu (Goldsmithing), drains 45 HP from the Ninja upon casting (cannot be cast if this would bring the Ninja below 1 HP). Automatically Resists the next status ailment that affects the Ninja. (Kyukaku can resist Blindness, Poison, Plague, Virus, Paralysis, Max MP down, Max HP down, Stat-down effects or black magic spells like Bio, Burn, Shock and Drown, the Resistance effect is still used up if a different status, like Slow or Petrify affects the ninja, but Kyukaku doesn't block these). Adds a Regen Effect (3hp/tick, lasts 60 seconds).

Kyukaku: Ni (Nin lvl 93, Fire Based spell, self target only)
Uses the Ninja Tool Shinchū Kappu, drains 80 HP upon casting (cannot be cast if it would lower HP to less than 1). Automatically Resists the next two status ailments that affect the Ninja. (Can resist the same effects as Ichi version). Adds a Regen effect (8hp/tick, lasts 60 seconds).
____________________________
Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
[quote=Master ketrel]Its just an emote you sick son of a ****
#14 Sep 01 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
**
673 posts
Curing doesn't really seem like something a Ninja would do. I think the idea is that a NIN just doesn't get hit. So I like the second suggestion better, although it seems almost too much like Utsusemi, and kinda bland to be honest.

How about a spell that works almost like the reverse of the WHM spell sacrifice, where if a NIN gets hit with a status infliction, the use of this spell can transfer that status (back) to an enemy target. Success rate would depend on Ninjutsu skill, and if the attempt to transfer fails (e.g. because of low skill/enemy immunity) then the status infliction remains on the NIN. It's not as powerful as the suggestions you made (it wouldn't work on stun or terror, obviously), but I think it's probably more realistic, and could give rise to some interesting strategies.
____________________________
95THF
Bismarck
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (18)