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Why SE Needs to Drop PS2 Support - Its Not About GraphicsFollow

#28 Jun 04 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Fyn, you may not have liked the necro or who was responsible for it, but that doesn't mean you should bash them for it. They're entitled to voice their opinion on the subject at hand, same as everyone else.
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#29 Jun 04 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
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They knew it would cause drama and take a long time, but at the end of the day most of the community fails to realize they are a business. Businesses want you to be happy, so they can make more money off of you. Some people in the business may actually care as well, but as a whole they do not care what is truly best for their customer, only what makes them happy.


How many people you think use ps2 version? 10%? maybe less?
From a "business" sense you guys may cry all day about this but you still playing, so you are still paying. Why would they cut out 10% of the money they make off this game?

I could be wrong but I don't think ps2 version is going anywhere, they are not going to dump a bunch of money into a 10 year old game to make it better for you and at the same time cut out some income by booting paying users.

They are pumping money into 14 and whatever this new game is they are making, we will be getting 2 or 3 updates a year with little big change after 99 cap. Maybe some people not happy with this but there lots of other games out there, if you want something new and shiny you should checlk those.
#30 Jun 04 2011 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
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Fyn, you may not have liked the necro or who was responsible for it, but that doesn't mean you should bash them for it. They're entitled to voice their opinion on the subject at hand, same as everyone else.


And my opinion is that this is a bad thread and he should feel bad for necrobumping it.
#31 Jun 04 2011 at 11:04 PM Rating: Default
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This is going to be off topic, but it needs said.

I read the spiel, and one thing that stood out is how he seems to think that the Empyrean gear is the greatest stuff ever made. Well, for some jobs it is, but at least for DRK it's pretty **** mediocre. Oh sure, it's good in comparison to previous gear that's DRK exclusive, but when compared to the other Empyrean sets it's arguably the weakest of the lot. ****, the Bale+2 set might as well just be called Pearle+1. Sure you could point to one or two pieces that are better than previous items, but the set as whole just isn't that great.

#32 Jun 05 2011 at 12:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quinildorff wrote:
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They knew it would cause drama and take a long time, but at the end of the day most of the community fails to realize they are a business. Businesses want you to be happy, so they can make more money off of you. Some people in the business may actually care as well, but as a whole they do not care what is truly best for their customer, only what makes them happy.


How many people you think use ps2 version? 10%? maybe less?
From a "business" sense you guys may cry all day about this but you still playing, so you are still paying. Why would they cut out 10% of the money they make off this game?

I could be wrong but I don't think ps2 version is going anywhere, they are not going to dump a bunch of money into a 10 year old game to make it better for you and at the same time cut out some income by booting paying users.

They are pumping money into 14 and whatever this new game is they are making, we will be getting 2 or 3 updates a year with little big change after 99 cap. Maybe some people not happy with this but there lots of other games out there, if you want something new and shiny you should checlk those.


I don't think it's as many as 10%, it would be nice if in a census they provided this data though. But let's say it is 10%. Not to mention, if such a thing did happen most of that 10% would switch over to play on PC. Once again, not many people in this day and time do not have a PC and a quite basic one will run this game.

This game has a very hardcore following of people. If they were to expand on it, market it right and develop it properly there's no reason why they could not bring in more members. If they DON'T bring in members here and there, it WILL eventually die off. That is not a "ffxi is dying" comment, it's just a logical business decision. People leave every day, in small numbers, one by one. You have to replenish those numbers to keep the game going. People join now and then, but not often and most do not stick with it, especially after realizing so many of these facts.

But back to the question, yes, I do think if this game was expanded, developed well and the proper effort put into it, the number of subscribers could be twice what they are and only grow. It would take proper effort and development, but it is a long standing game that is in it's own right, very successful. That says something to people, when they see so many fly-by-night MMO's now days. WoW, FFXI and only a select few others can say they've been around happily for as long as they have.

So yes, if you had to sacrifice that 10% to bring in a greater number, properly develop the game and make happy and keep the interest of those other 90% who wish to explore new lands and have new adventures, hate me if you will but think about it logically, it makes sense. I love Vana Diel and new MMO's don't even compare to what an amazing world it is, to what kind of stories it holds and what not. I don't want to play another MMO and people should not be told to do such for wanting the one they care about to be properly developed and taken care of. Would SE tell some one "This game is old, go play something else?" or should they concentrate on saying "Hey, we have had this game for a decade now. We have a diehard following and soon we are going to completely revamp it, overhaul it and add a huge new expansion! Now's the time to get in on FFXI!".

With all due respect.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 12:02am by EndlessJourney
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#33 Jun 05 2011 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I read the spiel, and one thing that stood out is how he seems to think that the Empyrean gear is the greatest stuff ever made. Well, for some jobs it is, but at least for DRK it's pretty **** mediocre. Oh sure, it's good in comparison to previous gear that's DRK exclusive, but when compared to the other Empyrean sets it's arguably the weakest of the lot. ****, the Bale+2 set might as well just be called Pearle+1. Sure you could point to one or two pieces that are better than previous items, but the set as whole just isn't that great.


Actually, The DRK set s pretty **** powerful. The Body has a massive Attack bonus, 4% crit rate, haste +3% (haste bodies are rare and haste bodies with badass melee stats as well are almost nonexstant), and enhances Dread Spikes, one of DRK's best spells. The head piece is probably the best head piece in the entire game, let alone in empyreon. The hands are also some of the best in the entire game for TPing, and they enhance Absorb-TP, another of DRK's best spells. The Feet and Legs are great WS and casting pieces, somethng many DRKs seem to overlook. Huge Nether Void boost and craptons of MACC between the two. There are no non-torcleaver WS feet in the game that can touch those DRK feet, that are good for the physical and magical WSes. The only real disapointment with the entre set is the Occult Acumen enhancement sucks and we wish it would have Augmented Endark to not lose Attack bonus every round. Once you have an Apocalypse, which is now obscenely easy to obtain compared to before, the full set is pretty good TP gear.

Why should anyone take anything you have to say serously anyway Mr "I'm not gonna do anything ToM because it's too easy and doesn't give good enough rewards for being so boring!"


On the topic at hand. No one thinks the magic will start instantly once the PS2 is dead, but if SE sold 14 off and focused on a remastered FFXI with new PC, PS3, 360 versions, made a huge ad campaign this time around (as big as say FFXIII or KH), focusing on the rebirth of one of the greatest MMOs of all time, and released a huge new expansion with massive, all new areas on the same day they shut the PS2 down and release the new updated version, I'm sure they would see a MASSIVE INCREASE in subs.

****, I'm pretty sure if they just did some NA advertising aside from that one commercial I saw only once and that one page add in EGM and PSM, they'd see some new subs. **** most people I talk to NEVER EVEN HEARD OF FFXI. I knew a guy who interned at PSM and he didn't even know the game existed. The fact is, when FFXI was actually advertised in America, the PS2 was still kinda new, and most people didn't have theirs hooked up to this fancy internet thing, let alone want to spend 150 dollars on a single game.
#34 Jun 05 2011 at 2:53 AM Rating: Default
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Return1 wrote:
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I read the spiel, and one thing that stood out is how he seems to think that the Empyrean gear is the greatest stuff ever made. Well, for some jobs it is, but at least for DRK it's pretty **** mediocre. Oh sure, it's good in comparison to previous gear that's DRK exclusive, but when compared to the other Empyrean sets it's arguably the weakest of the lot. ****, the Bale+2 set might as well just be called Pearle+1. Sure you could point to one or two pieces that are better than previous items, but the set as whole just isn't that great.


A bunch of drivel not worth quoting.


I see from your asinine post that you failed miserably to read my entire post before spouting off. Not that I should expect much from someone that can take my simple statement that Magians is so godawful boring that I refuse to subject myself to it , and somehow manage to interpret that as it's too easy to get good gear. Normally this is where I would point out the many mistakes in your post, but frankly, you're not worth the minute or so of my time it would take to type it out.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 5:00am by Turin
#35 Jun 05 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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The DRK empyrean as a whole is better than most melee sets as a whole. Not only that, but most melee only use pieces of their empy, not the whole set, so your argument is not only fallacious but stupid as well.
#36 Jun 05 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I love Vana Diel and new MMO's don't even compare to what an amazing world it is, to what kind of stories it holds and what not. I don't want to play another MMO and people should not be told to do such for wanting the one they care about to be properly developed and taken care of. Would SE tell some one "This game is old, go play something else?" or should they concentrate on saying "Hey, we have had this game for a decade now. We have a diehard following and soon we are going to completely revamp it, overhaul it and add a huge new expansion!


I agree with everything you say except the part where we exclude X amount of people from playing the game we love because they play it on a different forum than you.
#37 Jun 05 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with everything you say except the part where we exclude X amount of people from playing the game we love because they play it on a different forum than you.


It's most of us get an game that survives and even thrives, or we let PS2 players drag this game to an earlier death than need be. I've never seen someone sympathize with cancer until I fyn and his ilk.


FFXI could easily last another decade with better numbers than it has now if they did an overhaul, added a nice new expansion with the love and care they gave the original trilogy, and some actual advertising in the NA market.
#38 Jun 05 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quinildorff wrote:
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I love Vana Diel and new MMO's don't even compare to what an amazing world it is, to what kind of stories it holds and what not. I don't want to play another MMO and people should not be told to do such for wanting the one they care about to be properly developed and taken care of. Would SE tell some one "This game is old, go play something else?" or should they concentrate on saying "Hey, we have had this game for a decade now. We have a diehard following and soon we are going to completely revamp it, overhaul it and add a huge new expansion!


I agree with everything you say except the part where we exclude X amount of people from playing the game we love because they play it on a different forum than you.


There's a difference between "different" and "obsolete" here. I'll come out and say it: The PS2 is obsolete.

We just retired a 20 year old television (well, it was my room mate's and she moved out and is going to retire it.) 30" giant CRT monstrosity. Weighed 150 lbs. It still showed an okay picture, technically. But we couldn't do anything new with it - we've never been able to get a computer hooked up to it because it just didn't have the connections for it and the Svideo didn't work right.

And now we've replaced it with a brand new lovely 40" LED, and we came to the startling realization that we have no way of hooking up the PS2 to that for the same reasons we couldn't hook up a computer to the CRT. The technology is just from too great a generation gap. The PS2's connection technology is obsolete compared to our shiny new television. Even if I did get the necessary adapters, the PS2 would be completely incapable of taking advantage of the HD graphics and would look horrible on the TV. It'd be pointless.

We're going to eBay the PS2, probably. And if it doesn't sell, we'll box it up in an attic next to the old SNES and Atari Lynx.

Why should a handful of people clinging to obsolete technology ruin things for everyone else?
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#39 Jun 05 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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Why should a handful of people clinging to obsolete technology ruin things for everyone else?


Because it's a PS2 game.

Quite frankly, as a PS2 user, I really don't care if the spoiled brats with their fancy schmancy PCs feel like things are being "ruined" for them when they're already playing a significantly better looking game than I am.
#40 Jun 05 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
fancy schmancy PCs
I wouldn't consider a $300 Walmart eMachine "fancy" by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 5:55pm by lolgaxe
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#41 Jun 05 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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ITS NOT THE LOOKS YOU BLOODY ******! IT'S THE LACK OF STORAGE, THE LACK OF NEW AREAS, AND THE SLOW AGONIZING DEATH EACH UPDATE PATCH BRINGS FFXI A STEP CLOSER TO!

SE doesn't even support the PS2 anymore according to their own Customer Service reps and GMs.
#42 Jun 05 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
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Why should a handful of people clinging to obsolete technology ruin things for everyone else?


Because it's a PS2 game.

Quite frankly, as a PS2 user, I really don't care if the spoiled brats with their fancy schmancy PCs feel like things are being "ruined" for them when they're already playing a significantly better looking game than I am.


You can buy a brand new computer for less than you can a brand new fat PS2, an Xbox, or PS3.

If SE dropped PS2 support and added, say, Linux support, you could probably run FFXI on a $150 nettop computer or a OLPC. Or if they added Android support, you could undoubtedly play it on a smart phone. A smart phone which, by the by, is more powerful than a PS2.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 9:24pm by catwho
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#43 Jun 06 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Default
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I can keep playing as is for free.

Only time can tell but I sure hope they don't do this. Would suck to see them ***** over one set of people who may have been playing for 10 years or more to make another set happy.

If you are not happy with what the game is you should find a new game, or they should find a way to make it better for everyone. Nuke a few zones, move the quest npcs from those area to new area, something. Surely there is a middle road of some sort.
#44 Jun 06 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Why should a handful of people clinging to obsolete technology ruin things for everyone else?


Because it's a PS2 game.

Quite frankly, as a PS2 user, I really don't care if the spoiled brats with their fancy schmancy PCs feel like things are being "ruined" for them when they're already playing a significantly better looking game than I am.


You can buy a brand new computer for less than you can a brand new fat PS2, an Xbox, or PS3.

If SE dropped PS2 support and added, say, Linux support, you could probably run FFXI on a $150 nettop computer or a OLPC. Or if they added Android support, you could undoubtedly play it on a smart phone. A smart phone which, by the by, is more powerful than a PS2.

Edited, Jun 5th 2011 9:24pm by catwho


They don't have to add linux support. The appdb at Wine has FFXI with a platinum rating. The last few tests look very good for the linux crowd.


Quote:

I read the spiel, and one thing that stood out is how he seems to think that the Empyrean gear is the greatest stuff ever made. Well, for some jobs it is, but at least for DRK it's pretty **** mediocre. Oh sure, it's good in comparison to previous gear that's DRK exclusive, but when compared to the other Empyrean sets it's arguably the weakest of the lot. ****, the Bale+2 set might as well just be called Pearle+1. Sure you could point to one or two pieces that are better than previous items, but the set as whole just isn't that great.


I don't know what this has to do with the OP, but for me personally, I see no need to upgrade from my AF set. I don't care that a bunch of spoiled brats with their fancy schmancy Emperyean think things are being ruined for them when they are already enjoying a significant boost in perfomance.

And yes, that's how silly I think the Ps2 comment that inspired it was. I'm not trying to be offensive, but, really?
#45 Jun 06 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Just dropping PS2 support won't magically change the capabilities and limitations of the client for the PC and 360 would it? Wouldn't they still need to alter or perhaps totally remake the game client for those platforms? If so, do folks really think it's really likely they would?
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#46 Jun 06 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Camiie wrote:
Just dropping PS2 support won't magically change the capabilities and limitations of the client for the PC and 360 would it? Wouldn't they still need to alter or perhaps totally remake the game client for those platforms? If so, do folks really think it's really likely they would?


FFXI really needs a reprogramming from the ground up. The necessity of PS2 support is the major factor preventing such a reprogramming from occurring. However, if they did drop PS2 and reprogram the guts they could 1. add PS3 support at the same time and 2. significantly improve many of the limiting factors of the game, such as storage issues, zone limitations, server limitations, etc.

Will they? Likely not. But at least they could stop hiding behind the PS2 as their excuse and would have to give the real reason, "It'd be too hard or too labor intensive to bother."
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#47 Jun 06 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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In case you non-PS2 players weren't made aware, SE is dropping PS2 support... although not explicitly. I notice that when I talk to NPCs (mostly event Moogles and outpost vendors) there is a delay between when I start the interaction to when any text comes up. During that delay, I can chat but I can't use any menus (and thus can't call a GM). The delay can last as long as half an hour... maybe more but I don't have the patience to find out.

Honestly I don't see SE dropping PS2 support as long as a decent number of players still use the platform. Sony really screwed SE with the hardware support for FFXI, so it's doubtful that SE would buy into a scheme to appease PS2 players moving to another similar platform either. Which is too bad because if SE made FFXI into a downloadable PS3 game, I would jump on that in an instant.
#48 Jun 07 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Will they? Likely not. But at least they could stop hiding behind the PS2 as their excuse and would have to give the real reason, "It'd be too hard or too labor intensive to bother."

As long as the game supports the PS2, SE isn't "hiding behind" anything, and keeping the PS2 supported is indeed "the real reason." It's silly that you're characterizing SE as a bunch of dishonest people who refuse to man up.
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#49 Jun 07 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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I imagine making new content work on the PS2 must be like trying to use Arcane magic and eyes of newt to display interactive images in a magical box.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 3:02pm by Return1
#50 Jun 07 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
catwho wrote:
Will they? Likely not. But at least they could stop hiding behind the PS2 as their excuse and would have to give the real reason, "It'd be too hard or too labor intensive to bother."

As long as the game supports the PS2, SE isn't "hiding behind" anything, and keeping the PS2 supported is indeed "the real reason." It's silly that you're characterizing SE as a bunch of dishonest people who refuse to man up.


You've not been around a big business environment, have you? I'm talking about, in an office building around the top executives. It's the same way in politics to. I think it's silly that so many people romanticize and put their trust in Square Enix thinking they're good guys. I'm not saying they're bad, but business is business, and using excuses is literally just part of business. You tell people "We can't do this because _____" when in actuality it was something a bit different. As long as it's not a complete lie and you can hide behind it, people will use it.

It's already quite obvious that their production team has been cut down to a bare minimum, sadly. Yes, it's true, Square Enix doesn't want to put the money involved into this game, they've almost outright said so themselves with endeavors like FFXIV and other projects.

People need to realize, good or bad, at the end of the day Square Enix doesn't care about your adventures in Vana Diel, nor should they. It's a business. It's about profit. A few of the developers may, but they have to answer to corporate.
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#51 Jun 07 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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I really, really want FFXI on the Vita now.

You hear that, SE and Sony? Release FFXI for the Vita and I will run out and BUY a Vita and BUY another copy of a game I've already bought three copies of!
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