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Do you HATE THF? DWI @ 83?Follow

#27 Aug 30 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Default
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have a right to be up-in-arms

It's a video game. If it's so terrible that your blood pressure is rising over something so ridiculous, please play something else. And that's not a "quit whining and GTFO" I'm trying to lay upon you, I'm just saying that if you're really that angry over something so insignificant in the big picture of life, then maybe it's time to choose something more tame.

Sure, it sucks. But really, it is at worst a minor inconvenience to your life, and there are MUCH more important things to be "up-in-arms" about.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 2:02am by Speedly
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#28 Aug 30 2010 at 3:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find it also amusing that SE appears to be giving thf yet ANOTHER magical wind based weaponskill. <_<;;; (That's probably also AoE, has terrible damage potential, and of course, doesn't stack with sneak attack/trick attack)

Honestly, Is thf supposed to be Wind Mage and the name got lost in translation or something? :x
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#29 Aug 30 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Speedly wrote:
Quote:
have a right to be up-in-arms

It's a video game. If it's so terrible that your blood pressure is rising over something so ridiculous, please play something else. And that's not a "quit whining and GTFO" I'm trying to lay upon you, I'm just saying that if you're really that angry over something so insignificant in the big picture of life, then maybe it's time to choose something more tame.

Sure, it sucks. But really, it is at worst a minor inconvenience to your life, and there are MUCH more important things to be "up-in-arms" about.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 2:02am by Speedly


That is actually my argument for making things less painful. People say I'm crazy when I say make campaign exp based on time. But it is a game, right? What about spending less hours grinding is negative?

Sometimes I just think majority of players think FFXI is a beauty contest, and there can only be one winner.
#30 Sep 01 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Default
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Low delay on daggers combined with triple attack and double attack..... please.... Not to mention all the haste you can wear on thf. You thfs are better off cause your tp gain wont get haxed and you will still attack like crazy. Ill be suprised if you can even tell a difference without a 3rd party program. Even when i use the trait on on my blu **** i double attack so much there is almost no delay thats noticeable cause i never stop swinging. Yall all tripping off nothing and most of you will still sub nin anyway for shadows. Be glad your not a nin our most unique trait is being given to everyone and we already climing an uphill battle.
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#31 Sep 01 2010 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Low delay on daggers combined with triple attack and double attack..... please.... Not to mention all the haste you can wear on thf. You thfs are better off cause your tp gain wont get haxed and you will still attack like crazy. Ill be suprised if you can even tell a difference without a 3rd party program. Even when i use the trait on on my blu **** i double attack so much there is almost no delay thats noticeable cause i never stop swinging. Yall all tripping off nothing and most of you will still sub nin anyway for shadows. Be glad your not a nin our most unique trait is being given to everyone and we already climing an uphill battle.

Line breaks, dude.
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#32 Sep 01 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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AlternativeOne wrote:
Be glad your not a nin our most unique trait is being given to everyone and we already climing an uphill battle.

I'm really tired of reading this. It just smacks of bitterness over something rather trivial. Being "unique" as far as native dual wield was concerned didn't make NIN more powerful before, and losing that uniqueness hasn't hurt them more. It's like complaining about your hood ornament when your tires are flat.
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#33 Sep 01 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
AlternativeOne wrote:
Be glad your not a nin our most unique trait is being given to everyone and we already climing an uphill battle.
I'm really tired of reading this. It just smacks of bitterness over something rather trivial. Being "unique" as far as native dual wield was concerned didn't make NIN more powerful before, and losing that uniqueness hasn't hurt them more. It's like complaining about your hood ornament when your tires are flat.
Well it actually does make nin slightly less useful for the one thing it was still useful for: subjobs.


And if giving other jobs dw was what those jobs needed to be more useful than nin, that would make nin less useful. It might not actually be worse, but relative to other jobs, it's worse, which is really the same as being worse. But yeah, in this case nin wasn't useful anyway, so nothing of value was lost.
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#34 Sep 02 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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'Other jobs have it worse' means what exactly and why?

"You broke my arm!"
"Well just be glad your not a paraplegic!"
"That doesnt make it hurt less, doesnt make me feel any better, nor is it helpful/constructive in any way to the current situation"

We get it. Nin needs help. Go make your own thread instead of sh*tting on our parade jeez. No one said nin isnt in the same sinking boat, nor that nin doesnt also need help. SE has ignored a couple jobs and nin+thf are 2 of em.

(one of) the problems with Thf DW one is that it literally does nothing. "Oh well you will just /nin /dnc anyway so stop complaining". THATS THE POINT. SE paid some programmers to write this sh*t and it quite literally will have ZERO effect in any way shape or form because our best offense and best defense (and arguable best utility via stealing hate and blink tanking, kiting, etc) are ALL based on /nin. Its as good as giving us nothing with additional effect: salt in the wound. This is worse than giving nothing because it is nothing tied with a slap in the face. At least despoil (no matter how sh*tty) actually added something to the job, even though that nothing was garbage. This was in a sense worse than nothing because it is a morale hit while adding no actual benefit of any kind. The ONLY benefit to native DW is the ability to stick our lovely TH+1 knife in our offhand during 1st floor salvage because we CANT /nin yet. Thats it.

This update is about as awesome as:

SE:Ninja will receive new powerful magic next update!
Players: OMG FINALLY! HOlY CRAP i cant wait!!!
Patch Notes: Ninja has received the spell blink.
Players: RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 9:47am by Banalaty
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#35 Sep 02 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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SE paid some programmers to write this sh*t and it quite literally will have ZERO effect in any way shape or form because our best offense and best defense (and arguable best utility via stealing hate and blink tanking, kiting, etc) are ALL based on /nin.
/war is a pretty common sub for hnm.
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#36 Sep 02 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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/war is a pretty common sub for hnm.


Since when? 2003? Lets list the wide array of endgame content that meet these following criteria for going thf/war:
A: does not have AOES that are blink-able
B: a mob people actually allow melees to melee
C: Are actually HARD enough mobs that zerk/DA would actually do more damage than DW3 (weaker mobs DW outshines /war for DD)
D: let the thf in before 5% so they can "do their job" of tagging the mob while letting a DD with actual DD potential on high end mobs take that slot the other 95% of its life because Thf simply cant do the same damage as other DDs on high end mobs no matter what they sub.
E: Will not be doing anything else immediately before or after that also requires /nin (doing more than 1 event back to back. 1 that requires /nin, the other which one 'could' /war)

Go ahead. Ill wait.

I personally cant recall off the top of my head the last time i went thf/war to anything that wasnt fafnir so I could voke claim. I think it was a Kirin about 1.5 years ago.

Edit:
TLDR Thf/war is largely impractical and still struggles to beat /nin in overall DD while sacrificing any semblance of defense.

Now Thf with DW3 native would open up a world of hurt /war but sacrifice defense. fair trade. One could also thf/drg and combine hate steal with hate shed and nice 25% haste builds. Or /sam and be more effective. Or /drk and get a 30%+ attack speed boost and put out OK damage on a zerg besides just sticking feint+TH. DW would unbind us from /nin as the best sub for everything and give us a huge new toolbag to fit niche situations across the board more effectively which we cant when we are bound to /nin for everything and changing subs gives to little and costs to much.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:04am by Banalaty

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:06am by Banalaty
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#37 Sep 02 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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It's not like it matters really. As long as mobs gain TP from our attacks to the degree that they do, the very idea of a THF meleeing an HNM (besides to apply Treasure Hunter) makes even the most hardcore healer wet his pantaloons. Whether this concern is valid or not I leave to the more scientific among us, but this is certainly the perception at the very least.

The real issue is that they need to do something to make 1-hand/Dual Wield a more viable from of damage dealing against strong mobs. Not more viable than 2-hand, but certainly better than it is now. They either need to lower the "risk" involved from allowing 1-hand/Dual Wield to melee(Subtle Blow doesn't seem to accomplish this), or make the damage they deal worth the potential risk. And I mean visibly worth it in order to shatter any doubt.
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#38 Sep 02 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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A) most mobs do not
B) What exactly wouldn't you melee? Tiamat?
C) Hence why i said for hnm
D) Who the **** brings 19+ people to anything anymore?
E) Sure.
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#39 Sep 02 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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As long as mobs gain TP from our attacks to the degree that they do, the very idea of a THF meleeing an HNM (besides to apply Treasure Hunter) makes even the most hardcore healer wet his pantaloons.
A party of dds will feed 100 to in all of 2 seconds, tp feed doesn't mean jack sh*t, unless you're not using any melees.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:21am by ThePsychoticOne
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#40 Sep 02 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
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As long as mobs gain TP from our attacks to the degree that they do, the very idea of a THF meleeing an HNM (besides to apply Treasure Hunter) makes even the most hardcore healer wet his pantaloons.
A party of dds will feed 100 to in all of 2 seconds, tp feed doesn't mean jack sh*t, unless you're not using any melees.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:21am by ThePsychoticOne



OK, well that's good to know. So now what can be done about the second paragraph of my post? How do we make 1-hand/DW just as viable as 2-hand without trivializing 2-hand?
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#41 Sep 02 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Camiie wrote:
How do we make 1-hand/DW just as viable as 2-hand without trivializing 2-hand?

Could just give NIN, THF and BLU access to a 2 handed weapon with at least A- skill rating.
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#42 Sep 02 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dev1: "Let's give THF a 'Great Dagger' so they can have the 2H mod and better HNM WS!"
Dev2: "Wouldn't that be called a sword?"
Dev1: "Who are you again?"
Dev2: "Oh, I'm Hiro.."
Dev1: "You're fired."
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#43 Sep 02 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Camiie wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Quote:
As long as mobs gain TP from our attacks to the degree that they do, the very idea of a THF meleeing an HNM (besides to apply Treasure Hunter) makes even the most hardcore healer wet his pantaloons.
A party of dds will feed 100 to in all of 2 seconds, tp feed doesn't mean jack sh*t, unless you're not using any melees.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 10:21am by ThePsychoticOne



OK, well that's good to know. So now what can be done about the second paragraph of my post? How do we make 1-hand/DW just as viable as 2-hand without trivializing 2-hand?


You seem to be missing that regardless of how balanced they are, nobody is going to care for the weaker alternative. Only way to make people stop caring, is to make all weapons identical and all DDs identical. Might not be fun, but there won't be whining.
#44 Sep 02 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Mellowy wrote:
Camiie wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Quote:
As long as mobs gain TP from our attacks to the degree that they do, the very idea of a THF meleeing an HNM (besides to apply Treasure Hunter) makes even the most hardcore healer wet his pantaloons.
A party of dds will feed 100 to in all of 2 seconds, tp feed doesn't mean jack sh*t, unless you're not using any melees.
OK, well that's good to know. So now what can be done about the second paragraph of my post? How do we make 1-hand/DW just as viable as 2-hand without trivializing 2-hand?
You seem to be missing that regardless of how balanced they are, nobody is going to care for the weaker alternative. Only way to make people stop caring, is to make all weapons identical and all DDs identical. Might not be fun, but there won't be whining.
Of course there would be whining, it'd just be about how every job is identical, instead of how nin/thf/etc are ****** jobs.
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#45 Sep 02 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mellowy wrote:
You seem to be missing that regardless of how balanced they are, nobody is going to care for the weaker alternative. Only way to make people stop caring, is to make all weapons identical and all DDs identical. Might not be fun, but there won't be whining.



I think we're sorta on the same page actually. The way I see it is that while different DD jobs may use a different style of combat or style of play, they should ultimately arrive at the same result without any penalty from choosing one over the other. Pick the style you want, play and gear it to its fullest, and you're just as good at killing things as the guy doing the same with a different style. That would be ideal IMO. Will that ideal become reality or even be attempted at this point or ever? Obviously not. To be honest, there's probably a lot in the community who'd be upset if this did become the case. Not that I'd understand anyone thinking that way, but /shrug.
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#46 Sep 03 2010 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Please disregard this thread. SE FINALLY fixed despoil and that's pretty much what we needed.

Nothing to see here.
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#47 Sep 03 2010 at 3:55 AM Rating: Good
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Please disregard this thread. SE FINALLY fixed despoil and that's pretty much what we needed.


Trash ability is still trash
#48 Sep 03 2010 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
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Please disregard this thread. SE FINALLY fixed despoil and that's pretty much what we needed.


Trash ability is still trash


ya think?
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#49 Sep 03 2010 at 4:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Why do you think I said it? Obviously it must be what I thought.
#50 Sep 07 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
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Come on, Square! You can still give us something completely awesome at the last second. You guys have given us fantastic storylines since the game's release, so fixing some battle issues should be nothing for you- especially with the battle director at the helm now!

I have faith in you.
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#51 Sep 08 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Had to chime in based on the OP subject and reading the posts:

I still gear and play THF and it is currently, as of finishing 2 separate trial daggers for it, one of my best all around geared jobs (note, i said best geared, not my 'best' job)

That being said and once again reading a "Treasure Hunter" comment seeing that is how a majority of people like seeing us as, I still to this day have not, nor will i ever gimp myself by wielding a dagger with a job trait that no one can prove with some degree of respectable accuracy that it even works. If i worked hard to make myself two magian trial daggers, you sure as **** better believe im equipping those rather than a dagger that costs an average of 50k-100k in the AH.

If there's no spot for such a THF that actually cares about the overall effectiveness of his job (you fill in that blank there...) instead of the-now-realistically-possible-abyssea75+THF just to equip a **** knife and glove combo for a lame *** TH ability, then forget it, I'll just bring my DRG, because i'm sure as **** not "gonna come x job" in a developer/player community that doesn't respect one of my faves.

If this is the role that Square has decided on taking THF down on, then so be it and let them continue trolling their playerbase, not JUST the THF's, and losing customer faith, because it sure doesn't seem like we'll be getting any love anytime soon, perhaps by 99 maybe, but even I'm starting to lose faith there as other jobs have been pushed to the side along with THF.

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