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Do you HATE THF? DWI @ 83?Follow

#1 Aug 27 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Really!!!!!!???


Really!!!!!!???


DWI at 83!!?? What is the point? Why tell us you are giving us Dual Wield and then give us Dual Wield I at 83?

I am really tired of you kicking THF in the balls. If you don't do something right and give us sometihng actually useful this update, I really think I might quit. I'm tired of waiting around for you to get it.

I won't be playing FFXIV either. I'm tired of this **** and I'm tired of you not listening to us.
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#2 Aug 27 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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With your name I thought you would be happy with this update.
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#3 Aug 27 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, seriously, this is the worst practical joke they've played on the job, in my eyes. Despoil was really bad, taking away yokodama was sucky but understandable, removing the TP floor was junk... but this? This is just inexcuseable.

Square-Enix, have you not heard all of the thieves wishing for Dual Wield nearly on par with what Dancers receieved? Why is thief not deserving, because they have Treasure Hunter? My god, if you want it so much, take it- I'd rather have dual wield than treasure hunter any day if it meant people would stop viewing the job solely as an item obtainer. Yes, I absolutely love gaining items and stealing equipment from monsters, but not when my usefulness in other areas becomes tainted.

There is absolutely no reason why Thief should not receive atleast up to Dual Wield 3 before level 76.
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#4 Aug 27 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Default
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What changes about the job? You actually got something, nothing was taken away. I can understand you're ***** about not getting something good, but hey, atleast it's not a nerf.

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 6:59pm by BlackyLakshmi
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#5 Aug 27 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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Not nerfs that don't add anything always feels like burning money. You just paid someone a fat pay check to write code nobody wanted. Imagine if everyone could do that. Just sit at home and write print loops and get 2 000 dollars a month.
#6 Aug 27 2010 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm positively giddy over all the stuff that my mage jobs are getting. I mean, I'm bouncing in my chair here, debating which one I wanna level to 85 first. It's a hard choice!

But THF . . . I just can't excited over this. We're still gonna be stuck subbing NIN or DNC depending on the situation. Nothing has really changed at all.

SE doesn't know what they want THF to do. We're wandering in the dark, lost, without any direction.

At least we're better off than the NINs, though. People still want at least 1 of us in each alliance.
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#7 Aug 27 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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KnivesJonquil wrote:
Why is thief not deserving, because they have Treasure Hunter? My god, if you want it so much, take it-
My thoughts exactly.
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#8 Aug 27 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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BlackyLakshmi wrote:
What changes about the job? You actually got something, nothing was taken away. I can understand you're ***** about not getting something good, but hey, atleast it's not a nerf.


The boss gives me a rock. He gives everyone beside me gems, but I get this little pebble. Nothing was taken away, but that doesn't change the fact that I was given something that doesn't help me in the slightest. Now imagine this happens three times in a row, and you'd start to wonder why you're being shunned too.

Nothing changes about the job, and that's the very center of the problem. 90% of the thieves on each server will continue to use ninja and dancer as support jobs, in part because they offer DW traits higher than 1. It's not a nerf, but it's an extreme disappointment when we've been looking forward to our own dual wield trait for years. Instead, we're essentially being given nothing while everyone else gets something. BLM and NIN finally get more spells, BST atleast gets their TP trait, but Thief... we're "gifted" a lesser version of a trait we've essentially had this whole time through using other jobs. It's insulting.
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#9 Aug 27 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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KnivesJonquil wrote:
BlackyLakshmi wrote:
What changes about the job? You actually got something, nothing was taken away. I can understand you're ***** about not getting something good, but hey, atleast it's not a nerf.


The boss gives me a rock. He gives everyone beside me gems, but I get this little pebble. Nothing was taken away, but that doesn't change the fact that I was given something that doesn't help me in the slightest. Now imagine this happens three times in a row, and you'd start to wonder why you're being shunned too.

Nothing changes about the job, and that's the very center of the problem. 90% of the thieves on each server will continue to use ninja and dancer as support jobs, in part because they offer DW traits higher than 1. It's not a nerf, but it's an extreme disappointment when we've been looking forward to our own dual wield trait for years. Instead, we're essentially being given nothing while everyone else gets something. BLM and NIN finally get more spells, BST atleast gets their TP trait, but Thief... we're "gifted" a lesser version of a trait we've essentially had this whole time through using other jobs. It's insulting.


No, BST got awesome jugs last update I would say. This sTP thing might be nice, but those jugs.. Man it's awesome what agood BST can do with those. BLM got lolabyssea parties which resolved a lot (Not all) of what they were unhappy about. (Rest in pieces you ****** god **** toucans, mwahahahha!)

I would say NIN is the other melee in need of an update besides us now, due to the /DRK nerfs. (Sorry, NIN could DD respectably and NIN/DRK tank HNMs before so I thought it was a decent balance, and I respect NINs who thought they needed an update before) Make them a good DD or a good tank. Make THF a good DD or an honest utility job.

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#10 Aug 28 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know, at first i thought of making a few snide posts at THF's for all this drama but... Looking at it now it really is unfair.
Square-Enix you need to do something about this, make THF have the same Dual Wield ability as a DNC.
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#12 Aug 28 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Good Lord people, just keep subbing /NIN or whatever and shut your ******* ***** mouths.

The trait's going to keep scaling up with more levels.


Let's say it does. Okay, great! Now, what about all of the thieves leveling from 1-90, or whenever they may intend to scale up the Job Trait? It's still really unfair.

For the record, telling a big mob of frustrated people to "shut your ******* ***** mouths" is never tactful.
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#13 Aug 28 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Let's say it does. Okay, great! Now, what about all of the thieves leveling from 1-90, or whenever they may intend to scale up the Job Trait? It's still really unfair.


Unfortunately, a lot of jobs don't get to be awesome until higher levels. My PUP really thinks that Ventriloquy and Role Reversal should be standard abilities obtained well before merit level. The game doesn't agree with him, though.

Quote:
For the record, telling a big mob of frustrated people to "shut your ******* ***** mouths" is never tactful.


Read the OP again for me and tell me if you think it sounds tactful.

Edited, Aug 28th 2010 3:44pm by Fynlar
#14 Aug 28 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Good Lord people, just keep subbing /NIN or whatever and shut your ******* ***** mouths.

The trait's going to keep scaling up with more levels.


Ahhahhaaha. Thanks Fyn. I needed a laugh.
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#15 Aug 28 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Default
Even if THFs had DW, they'd still sub NIN for shadows anyway so what's the big deal? You'll get DWIII at 90 as THF/NIN anyway.
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#16 Aug 29 2010 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
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TheHolyDragoonSeraphus wrote:
Even if THFs had DW, they'd still sub NIN for shadows anyway so what's the big deal? You'll get DWIII at 90 as THF/NIN anyway.


The big deal is that THF does need something. This was supposed to be the time. The opportunity for new direction with the level increase.

The big deal is that when we saw that they were ACTUALLY giving us dual wield we got excited. It showed that SE was, indeed, giving us something that was actually a useful and meaningful increase in damage. It showed a direction to look to in this whole "Is THF a DD job or a support DD or what?" Identity crisis that SE seems to have with us.

They didn't even half *** this one. It is ENTIRELY reasonable to expect that we will only get DWII by 99. Something that will be outshined by /NIN by that point.

The big deal is that they are still wasting developement time giving us useless crap like DWI at 83 when we NEED something useful.

It's not even fun any more to make jokes about how SE is intentionally ******** with us.



Edited, Aug 29th 2010 5:55am by ThiefKiller
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#17 Aug 29 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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I'll give you guys points for the very good comparisons, and I'll admit, you're right.

However, this is the exact attitude RDM's had last update, now they get Saboteur, a new enfeeble and Refresh II. Jobs can and will get tweaked as long as SE still supports the game. Be a bit more patient, your time'll come sooner or later. There's still at least three more updates to go if SE follows the current trend.
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#18 Aug 29 2010 at 5:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Of course you can question how fun it will be to require to level a job to 99 before you become useful.

Not that much of a deal for people who keep their jobs leveled, but a new player picking THF and being told "don't worry, at level 99 you'll start to shine" will probably change job instantly.
#19 Aug 29 2010 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course you can question how fun it will be to require to level a job to 99 before you become useful.

Not that much of a deal for people who keep their jobs leveled, but a new player picking THF and being told "don't worry, at level 99 you'll start to shine" will probably change job instantly.


Thieves have other qualities, I would imagine, or are you implying the job is useless until a decent update? Thieves aren't getting much, and I can see why you'd view Despoil as a practical joke, but barring TH, Thieves can still manage hate to an extent and I see them put out good WS numbers more often than not. It's not like THF is the new loljob.

As for the new player thing, it's only natural that every job gets better traits and abilities as the level increases. If he's not willing to level THF to 99 because the job isn't interesting before that, I'd hardly call said player a loss for the Thief community.
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#20 Aug 29 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Thieves can still manage hate to an extent


No one cares about that. The game has not needed enmity control for many many years. Our enmity manipulation tools are not useful enough to warrant a party slot for them.

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I see them put out good decent WS numbers more often than not.


Our WS numbers are decent at best and are tied to our SATA timers (and positionability..is that a word?) to be respectable. Positional DD abilities were relevant in 2004 when you never did anything without a tank. They are not effective now. SE keeps adding this positional garbage too. I really feel bad for NINs. They keep adding events that involve large groups that don't need tanks but keep forcing me to run circles around a constantly spinning mob just to try to deal decent damage while trying to sneak in a trick attack on a DD before he jumps out of the way or just moves because that spot of dirt didn't suit him.

Quote:

It's not like THF is the new loljob.


This isn't new lol. THF has been at lolstatus for a long time now. And its becuase of things like this. The game has evolved and THF has not.

All I have ever had is patience. It's just running out.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 7:58am by ThiefKiller
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#21Seedling, Posted: Aug 29 2010 at 9:39 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You should. All the good devs are working on it. The version updates to level 80 and 85 have obviously been done by the B-team.
#22 Aug 29 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefKiller wrote:
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Thieves can still manage hate to an extent

No one cares about that. The game has not needed enmity control for many many years. Our enmity manipulation tools are not useful enough to warrant a party slot for them.

SE do. They did add some enmity management spells for SCH (and they had one song for BRD nobody use).
They add some new jump abilities for DRG that decrease enmity with shared timer with another jump ... that does exactly the same thing :-3
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#23 Aug 29 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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BlackyLakshmi wrote:
I'll give you guys points for the very good comparisons, and I'll admit, you're right.

However, this is the exact attitude RDM's had last update, now they get Saboteur, a new enfeeble and Refresh II. Jobs can and will get tweaked as long as SE still supports the game. Be a bit more patient, your time'll come sooner or later. There's still at least three more updates to go if SE follows the current trend.


Which isn't to say none of the listed won't be our own personal Despoils. It's a start toward something possibly better (Opinions on Refresh **** aside), but SE's baby step attitude is something that has treated RDMs relatively poorly over the years, be it from job specific updates to keep things fresh (Not Refreshed :p) or equipment to help with the roles we do believe we're lacking in (tank neutering aside).

I'm still on the wait and see camp for THF. The job is in my top three (which fluctuates based on my mood) and I don't feel it's all literal doom and gloom with the update itself taking nothing despite the suggested frugal giving. Job bias is certainly a concern everyone faces to some degree at some point throughout FFXI, but I think a lot of times the problem isn't being #1 DD so much as it is chances at potential utility are sub-par or outright useless.
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#24 Aug 29 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Default
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I didn't even bother reading any of this thread past the OP.

Save your frustration (whining) until the last level rise has occurred.

Way back when, the level cap was 50. THF didn't have Assassin yet at that point.

Let's say the level cap rose to 55, and all the THFs lost their damned minds. With what was still coming further down the road at 60, wouldn't you say those who screamed and cried were being total idiots?

I would.

Put down your pitchforks and have some patience.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 12:03pm by Speedly
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#25 Aug 29 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Speedly wrote:
I didn't even bother reading any of this thread past the OP.

Save your frustration (whining) until the last level rise has occurred.

Way back when, the level cap was 50. THF didn't have Assassin yet at that point.

Let's say the level cap rose to 55, and all the THFs lost their damned minds. With what was still coming further down the road at 60, wouldn't you say those who screamed and cried were being total idiots?

I would.

Put down your pitchforks and have some patience.


You really should read a thread before commenting.

Thief didn't have Assassin back when the level cap was at 50 because they didn't need it. Other jobs were also starting out, and if anything Thief was actually more powerful at level 50 back when the level cap existed than it is now because of Yokodama and the TP floor.

Being patient is becoming too hard in regards to this game. We have a right to be up-in-arms when updates only come every 3-4 months and Square continually ignores jobs. The only thing people can say is "maybe they'll address the issue next update," because Square never comes right out and talks directly about fixing player concerns unless they get international attention. It's a constant game of uncertainty, and that's why people are so upset. "Have some patience?" How long do you expect people to be patient for? I was patient until Despoil came; not anymore.
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#26 Aug 29 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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KnivesJonquil wrote:
You really should read a thread before commenting.

Thief didn't have Assassin back when the level cap was at 50 because they didn't need it. Other jobs were also starting out, and if anything Thief was actually more powerful at level 50 back when the level cap existed than it is now because of Yokodama and the TP floor.

Being patient is becoming too hard in regards to this game. We have a right to be up-in-arms when updates only come every 3-4 months and Square continually ignores jobs. The only thing people can say is "maybe they'll address the issue next update," because Square never comes right out and talks directly about fixing player concerns unless they get international attention. It's a constant game of uncertainty, and that's why people are so upset. "Have some patience?" How long do you expect people to be patient for? I was patient until Despoil came; not anymore.
And yet, there are jobs that have it worse than thf.
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