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Updated: TP display - Concept ScreenshotsFollow

#1 May 20 2004 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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First, please do not bump this thread, if you were thinking about bumping it, just say your thoughts on it, and rate up/down depending on your opinions on the topic. The old thread was taken down because of the bumping, so i'm recreating the thread in hopes that we don't bump again.

For reference to the entire old thread, Go Here. I'll post all my postings from the old thread here so you can atleast follow why i made the changes i did to the graphics. any feedback you might have will help.

This is a continuation of The Party Status Window: TP DISPLAY! started by Keits (keits...i fully support your idea man), but since I'm going a slightly different direction, i thought the subject could stand to be changed to draw attention to the direction i'm seeking to go with this thread. In this thread, either post links to images that show concept designs for the TP display in the party window or make comments on what you'd like to see in concept images for the tp display, how you'd like it displayed. I have posted mine below.

here's what i was thinking, unless they plan to increase the size of the party window to allow for a bar.

Numeric TP Indicators Concept Screenshot

Tirrock is not my character, i took this screenshot from his website, and altered it. Being at work, i don't have access to my screenshots, so i had to use someone elses. I only put minimal time into it, but i tried to match the colors as close as i could to the ones used for health display. the shadowing in photoshop doesn't allow me to make correct shadows around the characters, but ideally, each character would be outlined in dark gray, making it much easier to see. what do you guys think?

and for those that don't like to scroll down, here are the other screenshots based on people's input...
Dot Indicator Concept (dots for players under 100% all the way up to 300%)
Dot Indicator Concept (same as above, but only 2 players have reached TP...trying to show it with less noise)

Dot Indicator Concept Modified (no dots for players under 100% TP)

Mini TP bar Concept (with numeric indicators)

Numeric TP Indicators, Revised

Edited, Thu May 20 11:22:23 2004 by ninaru
#2 May 20 2004 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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well after hearing some comments about cluttered, and the idea about a dot that changes color with your TP gain, i modified the Concept Screenshot a little to accomodate for this. Since turning green once tp hits 100 doesn't quite jive with the game's existing colorizing for importance, i didn't use green. I used the same color indicators as the health. otherwise you can't tell who's letting TP build too high. anyway, onward with the screenshots.

Original Concept Screenshot
Modified Concept Screenshot

I also found this to be a viable option, although, if its implemented, i'd prefer that we have some way of displaying the actual percentage, for those that want to see it, but this is far less cluttered. also, you might be getting color shock looking at that. I just used the same TP values i did for the first screen shot, here's another example of how it could look if only 2 members have over 100%

Modified Concept Screenshot 2

give me some feedback and let me know if i should move those dots, or if i should post some with just green, or make the dot bigger?
#3 May 20 2004 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Velana:
Yeah I really like the idea of another bar.

to add another bar, the party window must grow taller, and that's kinda a barrier...i'm not sure how it would work on smaller resolution computers when they have an alliance. atleast the option would be nice...i'll have to wait till i can get home to play around with making concept shots adding another bar. but would you really rather have 3 bars per person?

personally, if another bar is added, i'd like it to be for experience till next level. an indicator or a number works fine for me for TP. what's everyone elses thoughts?
#4 May 20 2004 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
adennak:
Personally I wouldn't mind the party box being expanded a bit. It wouldn't have to be expanded on the Alliance Screen (MP isn't even listed there) but just on the main party one. It's far too easy to miss TP check macros during a heated battle.

i meant that the immediate party window would have to be taller, and this would shift the alliance windows up, and i'm not sure how well that would work on low resolution screens...there might not be enough room to put in a bar and display an alliance on the lowest resolution setting.

Quote:
JiggaWhat:
I think that no bubble should be displayed for any TP percentage that is below 100%. I don't want to have to judge a TP bubbles hue in order to know whether or not I can start a chain.

I'm working on another screen shot currently that doesn't display the dot if the player hasn't hit 100% yet. should be 5 min or so.
#5 May 20 2004 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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ok here's a shot displaying 2 people with TP at or over 100%. (no dots for others below 100%)

Dots Concept (no dots for players under 100%)
#6 May 20 2004 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
gahoo:
See how the HP bar is longer and offset from the MP bar? The TP bar can be put in the offset portion. I mean this bar can be pretty small.

holy cow that'd be a small bar...i'm not sure even my young eyes would be able to gage the difference between 75% and 50%...but i'll see if i can put something together...
#7 May 20 2004 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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after long hours of hard work (ok so it wasn't really hours), i have 2 more concepts to post.

Quote:
Keilun:
I liked the numbers better, even though it was more cluttered. Personally I'd really either prefer another bar with a number at the end (by growing the height of the party member window), or just the number.


Quote:
gahoo:
See how the HP bar is longer and offset from the MP bar? The TP bar can be put in the offset portion. I mean this bar can be pretty small. It should start where the HP bar starts and go to the MP bar. Bar is gray until it fills up (at 100% TP) when it turns metallic blue (and maybe has a very slight blinking effect). At 200% and again 300% it changes color, but remains at 100%.

Sure it would be a small bar - but that's all that would be needed IMO. It would be enough to guage whether someone is at 0%, 25%, 50% or almost 100%, not to mention 100%, 200% and 300%.

well i was right, upon implementing the mini bar that gahoo was talking about, i realized, the bar is far too small to be useful, but here's the concept anyway. note that i spent extra time making the numbers stand out so that they were more easily readable, like the numbers the current interface has (black outlines around the numbers). just so you know Gahoo, i tried doing it without numeric indicators, and it just wasn't cutting it...even with huge zoom on the graphic, it just looked far too puny to be worth any value...much like my linkshell leader's manhood. hehe jk Phoenixfire.

Mini TP bar concept (with numbers)

after completing this, i realized that the bars would simply be another gnat making my graphics car doing more work, and nothing more, you can barely tell the difference on the bar between 35% and 73%, and that's a considerable difference in TP. so i chopped all the TP bars off and left the numbers so that we'd have a more updated concept of how tp can be just numerically displayed.

Numeric TP Indication Revised

if anyone has any more suggestions let me know...next time i get on, i'm going to test out some things about expanding the party window to allow for another FULL bar, to see how much that pushes up the alliance windows. thanks for the feedback guys.
#8 May 20 2004 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
trickybeck the Sly:
The one problem I have is this:

One of things that separates good players/parties from bad ones is COMMUNICATION.

By adding the dots for TP, it dumbs things down a bit, and relaxes some of the need for excellent communication within a party.

i agree with your statement that communication is key to a good party. However, there's a difference between good communication and unnecessary communication to make up for an interface that doesn't display such vital information. I think it would actually help communication in a group, less macro spamming of

"HP:928 TP:55"
"HP:928 TP:78"
"HP:928 TP:94"
"HP:928 TP:107"
"TP:107 {(Ready For Skillchain!)}"

i also think that by going to the Party>Member List you should be able to see all ailments or buffs on each player, an experience bar, and attack and defense ratings. All of this is less important than being able to see party member's TP on the party window. Let communication be for things that matter 5 seconds later. once someone's told the party what their tp is twice, their first tp tell doesn't matter any more, and after they state their tp a third time, the 2nd one doesn't matter. when you are in a pt, you are concerned with what their TP is right now, not 5 minutes ago. that's just eating up useful lines in the party buffer. :) i believe that displaying TP on the user interface in the party window will really help keep communication for what its meant for.
#9 May 20 2004 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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These are all good pics, if Square can give a TP party display so that we can pick how we would like to view our pary's TP (among the ones shown here, for example) that would be even better.
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#10 May 20 2004 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, i agree, having the option to choose which you like best would help out, considering the differences in opinion that we are seeing people have.

For starters...in my opinion it would be great just to have the numeric TP display.
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#11 May 20 2004 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Just make the characters NAME change color based on their TP level...

White < 100
Color2 101-150
Color3 151-200
Color4 201-250
Color5 251-299
Color6 300
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#12 May 20 2004 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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I will state again for this new version of the thread:

Please pity those of us that are color blind. No colored dots people, just numbers. I would cry for weeks upon months if my idea here was implimented in the form of colored dots that I can barely distinguish.
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#13 May 20 2004 at 12:49 PM Rating: Default
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i dont agree with TP display ...

imho there are good parites and bad parties many times it depens as allready somewhere stated on communication

if people are no able to tell they TP they are bad players and its difference between good normaln bad players

if u cant communicat in party its bad ... and i like it to communicate in party when battle saying TP ... changing fast starategy etc ...

so this is why i dont agree with TP display of any way ...

if people are no able to tell their status ... there are "bad" players ... and thats their problem

i dont know -> the macro for TP report is easy and if they are so "LAZY" to report it ... eh :(


i dont like easy games ... many RPG games falled to "easy" just because people wanted it ... but i dont like it ...

i will not rate this down but just my toughts


EDITED:

one more time ... pls dont do this game easier ... if people are no able to report at lest they TP its sad ... but its problem

or u want to just put ATTCK on and wait for battle to end ? without anything ? i dont like thsi idea

dont do TP numbers viewable and let people do somethin in fight ... as THF i m very glad that i have to do moer things then just put ATTACK and wait until end of fight


Edited, Thu May 20 13:52:03 2004 by TSP
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#14 May 20 2004 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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This idea is more about the Language Barrier and getting some of the unneeded spam out of the chat window. Far more useful things could be scrolling by.

Adding a party TP display will not make bad players into okay players. The bad ones still wont pay attention, wont skillchain, and will still get your party killed.

I still feel that this TP display is a very handy edition that would take some of the load off of the otherwise overflowing chat window.
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#15 May 20 2004 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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i completelly agree with Keits. If you think spamming TP makes for a good player, or makes for good communication, then you and i have completely different ideas about what good communication is.

Why even display HP and MP then? why not make it so that you have to go to your status screen to check your own mp, and make people use the No More MP! macro more? i'll tell you why. cause its not necessary, and its not condusive to efficient playing. TP deserves as much right to be displayed in the party window as MP does, if not more so. Realtime displays of HP,MP,and TP make the game less like a text mud, and more like a 3D game with a useful user interface. I still strongly support some kind of option to display TP on the party window.
#16 May 20 2004 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Gah. My posts keep disappearing. Anyway Keits and ninaru covered everything I was going to say about it "dumbing down" the party dynamic. But I wanted to add that I really like the latest version of the numbers. It's less cluttered and easy to read. Great job. :)
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#17 May 20 2004 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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edit for typo
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To communicate or not to communicate that is the question.

When someone tells me that me having instant access to vital information somehow hurts the party because it somehow takes away from the "good communication" of a pt, I sit back on this couch and scoff at there naive ignorance.

PT chat traffic becomes obsolete for "TP Macro Spamming"! Most people who spam there TP don't do it cauase they want to annoy everyone they do it to allow pt members to know exactly how far away they are from participating in a chain. TP status in a window ends this need.

Chatter on PT channel doesn't scroll by so quickly. In my opinion this is a major problem in groups ... in the middle of battle the last thing you want to miss is the start of a skillchain or a leaders orders.

Knowledge is Power! Seriously I don't care if you can speed read. I want to be able to see vital info in my PT Chat window again. Personally, there is no way that having TP listed will hurt a PT's communication or effectiveness. It will only help!

Edited, Thu May 20 15:49:44 2004 by JiggaWhat
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#18 May 20 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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agreed, jiggawhat, tp spamming makes the party buffer crowded, and hard to read between the TP calls. i have received far more positive feedback on a need for this than the presented negatives, so i really really hope the implement this
#19 May 20 2004 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea, but I think there is enough going on in battle for the game. I like the dots, but personally i would make them a bit simpler. If you have 100+% TP you get a dot. This multiple color dots is too confusing and not needed. A simple dot if you have enough TP to do a Skill Chain is enough.
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#20 May 20 2004 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with TP being displayed, but I think the dots and multicoloring can make it busy and harder to read.

My vote would go for a simple indication that you are 100% or more --- now capable of doing a weaponskill.

Maybe just a simple color change of the player's name on the party list to indicate he is capable of doing a weaponskill now.


Even this method would take away the ability to know how close/far a player is to 100% TP. But I don't like the idea of adding more numbers to that small party info area.

HP and MP are far more important, and making them harder to read wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion.

#21 May 21 2004 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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Awesome Idea yes I Bumped the heck outta this before and I will not do it again sorry.
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#22 May 21 2004 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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anonone and slimslaby, you guys really don't see a need for tp display? do you not use macros repetitively to state what your TP is? have you ever hit 100, and were wondering what your party members were at, to see if you could perform a skillchain, so you ask them what their tp is, so they display their tp. This happens all the time to me. Either that, or everyone that performs in skillchain starts spamming TP once they get to about 80%, or when someone asks. I see TP display as a benefit, not a hinderence.
#23 May 21 2004 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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The numbers are important. As ninaru pointed out, there are times when it is critical to know other people's TP value even below 100 so you can gauge timing. For example, as a SAM there are many times when I will watch my PT member's TP and wait for it to be 1-3 hits from going over 100 (depending on weapon type and their hit frequency) and I'll activate Meditate at the appropriate time so that the amount of TP waste is minimized.

It's also important if I'm second in the SC and I need to activate a meditate while I'm at 60% to catch up. In that case, in order to save TP, the SC leader needs to see my TP to know to start with a 2 sec start and then go.

There are so many cases where knowing the actual TP value is useful. My examples are biased towards SAM of course and perhaps it's just more prevalent to them, but I don't see any real reason to "dumb" it down any - especially when the info can be as useful as shown above.
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#24 May 21 2004 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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So true. Any decent SAM know that the hardest two things about the job are:

1.)Watching and memorizing TP spam and

2.)Planning the use of meditate so that it isnt wasted.
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#25 May 21 2004 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I definitely think this is useful. As long as it doesn't look cluttered and confusing.

I totally understand the reasoning as we are constantly using our macros to update party members of our TP Status.

Usually though... all of us in a given skillchain getting to 100% is usually what we are all focusing on. That being said, my suggestion was the minimum that I would like to see. Just some indication that you are ready to perform a weapon skill.

I think the numbers would be great to have, if it can be done in an intuitive and readable format. Knowing how close someone is to 100% would be useful.

I wasn't saying that I didn't like this idea, but I just think that the mockups were trying to stuff alot of information into a small area. If it's easy to read and intuitive... I'm all for it.

#26 May 21 2004 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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so....what you're saying is...i suck at graphics...lol, just kiddin. Yes, i agree, numerical display would be my personal preference, and i'm sure the artists at SE can put it in there better than i can, i was just trying to piece something together so that others can get a visual on how this might work. Thanks for your feedback though!
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