Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Updated: TP display - Concept ScreenshotsFollow

#1 May 18 2004 at 2:08 PM Rating: Sub-Default
Scholar
**
428 posts
This is a continuation of The Party Status Window: TP DISPLAY! started by Keits (keits...i fully support your idea man), but since I'm going a slightly different direction, i thought the subject could stand to be changed to draw attention to the direction i'm seeking to go with this thread. In this thread, either post links to images that show concept designs for the TP display in the party window or make comments on what you'd like to see in concept images for the tp display, how you'd like it displayed. I have posted mine below.

here's what i was thinking, unless they plan to increase the size of the party window to allow for a bar.

Numeric TP Indicators Concept Screenshot

Tirrock is not my character, i took this screenshot from his website, and altered it. Being at work, i don't have access to my screenshots, so i had to use someone elses. I only put minimal time into it, but i tried to match the colors as close as i could to the ones used for health display. the shadowing in photoshop doesn't allow me to make correct shadows around the characters, but ideally, each character would be outlined in dark gray, making it much easier to see. what do you guys think?

EDIT: and for those that don't like to scroll down, here are the other screenshots based on people's input...
Dot Indicator Concept (dots for players under 100% all the way up to 300%)
Dot Indicator Concept (same as above, but only 2 players have reached TP...trying to show it with less noise)

Dot Indicator Concept Modified (no dots for players under 100% TP)

Mini TP bar Concept (with numeric indicators)

Numeric TP Indicators, Revised


Edited, Wed May 19 17:56:00 2004 by ninaru
#2 May 18 2004 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
**
254 posts
The above 'concept' shot is pretty **** close to what I had in mind origionally. I like it.
____________________________
-62 SAM/(31WAR,31THF,35RNG/18NIN)
-25 BLM/(30WHM)
-36 BST/(SIGNA!)
-Hades
#3 May 18 2004 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
*
185 posts
also like what i had in mind when i read the post... nice work... the TP display is by far one of the most useful posts in here...
____________________________
~*~ Raena ~*~
Race:Tarutaru
Server:Diabolos
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?84769
#4 May 18 2004 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
110 posts
AMAZING! A HP/MP/TP status display that you CAN ACTUALLY READ!!!

I've got a large monitor with nice resolution and it's still a joke. When I'm WHMing all day long and looking at nothing but the HP meters everything starts to blur together. I actually purchased a square magnifying glass that just fits in the side of my monitor.

I hate to think what PS2 players make of the gray and yellow blur at the bottom right hand corner.
____________________________
Be good to each other, don't die

31 Thief (money maker)
25 Bard (most fun)
25 White Mage (/anon)
15 Black Mage (2 more levels for warp)
17 Ranger (current)

Alexander
Rank 2.9999 (1 more dragon)
Windy Fame 5
Sandy Fame 3
Adventure Rating 12
#5 May 18 2004 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
137 posts
as a PS2 user myself I have to add a comment ^^ It may be blurry... but at least compared to my PC version it's possible to read without a huge eye strain (yay, the super-big resolution actually comes in handy) ^^ Anyways, that's an awesome idea! The TP fits so well there ^^ I hope this is one of the things Square actually adds...

~Kiz
#6 May 19 2004 at 8:32 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
428 posts
sorry, gotta bump.
#7 May 19 2004 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
A bit cluttered, but I like it.
#8 May 19 2004 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
538 posts
The clutter can be eliminated by just having an icon which turns green when TP > 100%. No real need for specific %. Wait until everyone in chain is green and then let lose.
____________________________
Gamerescape.com
#9 May 19 2004 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
well after hearing some comments about cluttered, and the idea about a dot that changes color with your TP gain, i modified the Concept Screenshot a little to accomodate for this. Since turning green once tp hits 100 doesn't quite jive with the game's existing colorizing for importance, i didn't use green. I used the same color indicators as the health. otherwise you can't tell who's letting TP build too high. anyway, onward with the screenshots.

Original Concept Screenshot
Modified Concept Screenshot

I also found this to be a viable option, although, if its implemented, i'd prefer that we have some way of displaying the actual percentage, for those that want to see it, but this is far less cluttered. also, you might be getting color shock looking at that. I just used the same TP values i did for the first screen shot, here's another example of how it could look if only 2 members have over 100%

Modified Concept Screenshot 2

give me some feedback and let me know if i should move those dots, or if i should post some with just green, or make the dot bigger?
#10 May 19 2004 at 9:46 AM Rating: Default
*
118 posts
ooooooooh im loving the Dot. I think it should flash as well like the tp Bar!!!
____________________________


#11 May 19 2004 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
145 posts
personally I like the numbered percentage rather than the dot. It seems more useful to know how long untill another player's TP is ready. Also its just as easy to read, if not more so.
#12 May 19 2004 at 10:13 AM Rating: Default
*
118 posts
Yeah I really like the idea of another bar.
____________________________


#13 May 19 2004 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
Quote:
Velana
Yeah I really like the idea of another bar.

to add another bar, the party window must grow taller, and that's kinda a barrier...i'm not sure how it would work on smaller resolution computers when they have an alliance. atleast the option would be nice...i'll have to wait till i can get home to play around with making concept shots adding another bar. but would you really rather have 3 bars per person?

personally, if another bar is added, i'd like it to be for experience till next level. an indicator or a number works fine for me for TP. what's everyone elses thoughts?
#14 May 19 2004 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
All-in-all excellent idea, thread, and pic examples. However, I do have one thing to say by way of friendly critique.

I think that no bubble should be displayed for any TP percentage that is below 100%. I don't want to have to judge a TP bubbles hue in order to know whether or not I can start a chain.

____________________________
Fenrir - UnforgottenUnity
Poizaru - 27WAR/12MNK
Nukaru - 15WHM
#15 May 19 2004 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
110 posts
Allow me to move the status HP/MP/TP window where I choose. Maybe I'll cover up the worthless radar.
____________________________
Be good to each other, don't die

31 Thief (money maker)
25 Bard (most fun)
25 White Mage (/anon)
15 Black Mage (2 more levels for warp)
17 Ranger (current)

Alexander
Rank 2.9999 (1 more dragon)
Windy Fame 5
Sandy Fame 3
Adventure Rating 12
#16 May 19 2004 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
***
1,655 posts
I am definitely in favor of the % listing rather than the dot. For example, if you are near the end of a difficult fight, sometimes it's not worth saving for the Renkei if your party is hurting. It would be nice to know if my Renkei partner is about to hit 100% and I should wait a turn, or if I should just hit my WS in order to end the fight quickly.

Personally I wouldn't mind the party box being expanded a bit. It wouldn't have to be expanded on the Alliance Screen (MP isn't even listed there) but just on the main party one. It's far too easy to miss TP check macros during a heated battle.
____________________________
Character: Esparta -|- Server: Seraph -|- Job: Samurai, Corsair
Character: Ulath -|- Server: Queztalcoatl -|- Job: Newb

Aden's Renkei Chart - {Ready to start Skillchain?} You're **** right I am!
#17 May 19 2004 at 12:09 PM Rating: Default
*
118 posts
Hehe it's all good ideas i just use "Subtle Bump" lol
____________________________


#18 May 19 2004 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
Quote:
adennak:
Personally I wouldn't mind the party box being expanded a bit. It wouldn't have to be expanded on the Alliance Screen (MP isn't even listed there) but just on the main party one. It's far too easy to miss TP check macros during a heated battle.

i meant that the immediate party window would have to be taller, and this would shift the alliance windows up, and i'm not sure how well that would work on low resolution screens...there might not be enough room to put in a bar and display an alliance on the lowest resolution setting.

Quote:
JiggaWhat:
I think that no bubble should be displayed for any TP percentage that is below 100%. I don't want to have to judge a TP bubbles hue in order to know whether or not I can start a chain.

I'm working on another screen shot currently that doesn't display the dot if the player hasn't hit 100% yet. should be 5 min or so.
#19 May 19 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
**
254 posts
Numbers please, not color-bubbles. Spare me, I'm colorblind.
____________________________
-62 SAM/(31WAR,31THF,35RNG/18NIN)
-25 BLM/(30WHM)
-36 BST/(SIGNA!)
-Hades
#20 May 19 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
i'm all for numbers.....but if its going to be bubbles like i think FFXI would give us...I don't want a bubble if you haven't gained 100% TP
____________________________
Fenrir - UnforgottenUnity
Poizaru - 27WAR/12MNK
Nukaru - 15WHM
#21 May 19 2004 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
***
2,866 posts
Put my vote in.
#22 May 19 2004 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
ok here's a shot displaying 2 people with TP at or over 100%. (no dots for others below 100%)

Dots Concept (no dots for players under 100%)
#23 May 19 2004 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Yay...I like!
____________________________
Fenrir - UnforgottenUnity
Poizaru - 27WAR/12MNK
Nukaru - 15WHM
#24 May 19 2004 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
Not a big fan of the dot. It's not prominent enough. I liked the numbers better, even though it was more cluttered. Personally I'd really either prefer another bar with a number at the end (by growing the height of the party member window), or just the number.
____________________________
Keilun
18 Warrior
Everfrost
#25 May 19 2004 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
538 posts
I like the dots and the last example (which by the way solves the color-blind problem as well), but here's another idea:

See how the HP bar is longer and offset from the MP bar? The TP bar can be put in the offset portion. I mean this bar can be pretty small. It should start where the HP bar starts and go to the MP bar. Bar is gray until it fills up (at 100% TP) when it turns metallic blue (and maybe has a very slight blinking effect). At 200% and again 300% it changes color, but remains at 100%.

Sure it would be a small bar - but that's all that would be needed IMO. It would be enough to guage whether someone is at 0%, 25%, 50% or almost 100%, not to mention 100%, 200% and 300%.
____________________________
Gamerescape.com
#26 May 19 2004 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
Quote:
gahoo:
See how the HP bar is longer and offset from the MP bar? The TP bar can be put in the offset portion. I mean this bar can be pretty small.

holy cow that'd be a small bar...i'm not sure even my young eyes would be able to gage the difference between 75% and 50%...but i'll see if i can put something together...
#27 May 19 2004 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
538 posts
Yes it will be small. But now you can tell when you have 1/4 HP and when you have 1/8 right? This bar really only needs to be able to differentiate between empty, half, almost full, and full. It doesn't matter if someone is at 78% vs. 87%. As long as you can differentiate between 72% and 27%

____________________________
Gamerescape.com
#28 May 19 2004 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
I dislike that idea... because I already have two bars that avert my eyes when i'm trying to find out crucial info!
____________________________
Fenrir - UnforgottenUnity
Poizaru - 27WAR/12MNK
Nukaru - 15WHM
#29 May 19 2004 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
538 posts
Ok. How's this?

Option in config menu to select either the MP bar or a TP bar. MP bar stays yellow. TP bar is blue.

I mean mages don't need the TP bar, and mele don't need the MP bar. Sure there are a few classes that might like both, but they'd be no worse off than now. And even for those classes that are able to use MP and TP, usually one is much more important to have visible.
____________________________
Gamerescape.com
#30 May 19 2004 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
gahoo wrote:
Ok. How's this?

Option in config menu to select either the MP bar or a TP bar. MP bar stays yellow. TP bar is blue.

I mean mages don't need the TP bar, and mele don't need the MP bar. Sure there are a few classes that might like both, but they'd be no worse off than now. And even for those classes that are able to use MP and TP, usually one is much more important to have visible.


Doesn't work that well considering that at times RDMs like to use WS's too. And being a Samurai, I like to SC with everyone. :D

I like ninaru's number option the best. Except having the number a bit smaller. Or extending the width of the party display window a bit to fit it in properly.
____________________________
Keilun
18 Warrior
Everfrost
#31 May 19 2004 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
538 posts
Quote:
Doesn't work that well considering that at times RDMs like to use WS's too. And being a Samurai, I like to SC with everyone. :D

I like ninaru's number option the best. Except having the number a bit smaller. Or extending the width of the party display window a bit to fit it in properly.

Well as a RDM also I like to perform a WS when possible also, but the TP meter is basically for SCs and a RDM is generally not getting enough TP to be a consistent part of the SC. Sure a RDM will probably want the MP bar up so people can see his/her MP. They will still gain TP and it will still be visible to yourself in the upper left of course.

The problem with this would be that if you choose to have TP bar active then you can't see your own MP graphically, so maybe the upper TP bar would be a self-only MP bar when you select this option.

I'm starting to think this idea makes sense. Why waste the MP bar space on the WAR/MNK? Don't forget of the 15 classes, only 6 use MP (I think), and really only combinations within those 6 would need to have MP be visible at all times. I mean I don't really need to see that the WAR/WHM has 12/24MP.

EDIT: Based on the recent census - these are the top 5 combos:

Whm/Blm- 13.04%
Blm/Whm- 8.98%
War/Mnk- 5.55%
Rdm/Blm- 5.35%
Pal/war- 4.39%
Mnk/war- 4.37%

Of these WHM/BLM, BLM/WHM, RDM/BLM and maybemaybethe PAL/WAR would have their MP showing instead of their TP. That's only 31%. Without knowing the BLM/SUM percetages, etc., I think it is still fair to assume that in the majority of cases the player doesn't have to be showing his MP.

Edited, Wed May 19 16:49:05 2004 by gahoo
____________________________
Gamerescape.com
#32 May 19 2004 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,146 posts
It get filled up a bit much if you place a % or a dot in that little box right under.

Maybe a color change is an idea too.
Yellow for 100%+, orange for 200%+ and red for 300%.
Works better I think then putting an extra dot in the right corner or setting a number with a procentage in it.

But I like the idea and get it bumped and hope that SE looks at this topic.
#33 May 19 2004 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
428 posts
after long hours of hard work (ok so it wasn't really hours), i have 2 more concepts to post.

Quote:
Keilun:
I liked the numbers better, even though it was more cluttered. Personally I'd really either prefer another bar with a number at the end (by growing the height of the party member window), or just the number.


Quote:
gahoo:
See how the HP bar is longer and offset from the MP bar? The TP bar can be put in the offset portion. I mean this bar can be pretty small. It should start where the HP bar starts and go to the MP bar. Bar is gray until it fills up (at 100% TP) when it turns metallic blue (and maybe has a very slight blinking effect). At 200% and again 300% it changes color, but remains at 100%.

Sure it would be a small bar - but that's all that would be needed IMO. It would be enough to guage whether someone is at 0%, 25%, 50% or almost 100%, not to mention 100%, 200% and 300%.

well i was right, upon implementing the mini bar that gahoo was talking about, i realized, the bar is far too small to be useful, but here's the concept anyway. note that i spent extra time making the numbers stand out so that they were more easily readable, like the numbers the current interface has (black outlines around the numbers). just so you know Gahoo, i tried doing it without numeric indicators, and it just wasn't cutting it...even with huge zoom on the graphic, it just looked far too puny to be worth any value...much like my linkshell leader's manhood. hehe jk Phoenixfire.

Mini TP bar concept (with numbers)

after completing this, i realized that the bars would simply be another gnat making my graphics car doing more work, and nothing more, you can barely tell the difference on the bar between 35% and 73%, and that's a considerable difference in TP. so i chopped all the TP bars off and left the numbers so that we'd have a more updated concept of how tp can be just numerically displayed.

Numeric TP Indication Revised

if anyone has any more suggestions let me know...next time i get on, i'm going to test out some things about expanding the party window to allow for another FULL bar, to see how much that pushes up the alliance windows. thanks for the feedback guys.
#34 May 19 2004 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
*
155 posts
I like the last one with just the numbers and no bar. Its almost like it belongs there and doesnt clutter up the window. Great job on making the concept photos.
____________________________
DRAGON-ELVAAN BARD/WHM-HADES
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?5199
#35 May 19 2004 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
**
254 posts
I agree. Numbers with no bar = win.
____________________________
-62 SAM/(31WAR,31THF,35RNG/18NIN)
-25 BLM/(30WHM)
-36 BST/(SIGNA!)
-Hades
#36 May 20 2004 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
332 posts
Yes, just the numbers, with no bar. Its too hard to see with 3 bars, but 2 bars and a number is very good.

If we do it this way, we wont have the 3 bar problem, or the TP and MP bar problem.
____________________________
Alacer
Status: Retired
Job: Samurai
Cerberus
Author of the GM Series http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=10866161529918880&num=270
Author of Kai and Stan go to Rehab
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1111481954140564784&num=0
#37 May 20 2004 at 4:48 AM Rating: Good
Tracer Bullet
*****
12,576 posts

The one problem I have is this:


One of things that separates good players/parties from bad ones is COMMUNICATION.


By adding the dots for TP, it dumbs things down a bit, and relaxes some of the need for excellent communication within a party.




cheers Smiley: boozing
____________________________
Na Zdrowie
#38 May 20 2004 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Great Idea ;).
Ill put up another possibility for critique: the characters name (in the party window) could flash upon reaching 100 tp. Not as informative as the display of exact percentage but its simple and keeps the clutter down. The names could even pulse slowly, gradually getting faster as tp is accumulated, turning a gold hue at 100 tp. With a little practice the general range of tp before 100 could be gauged.
#39 May 20 2004 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
332 posts
bump
____________________________
Alacer
Status: Retired
Job: Samurai
Cerberus
Author of the GM Series http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=10866161529918880&num=270
Author of Kai and Stan go to Rehab
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1111481954140564784&num=0
#40 May 20 2004 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
First off, ninaru, I love the last numbered concept shot. It's small, still easy to read and not in anyone's way.

trickybeck the Sly wrote:

The one problem I have is this:

One of things that separates good players/parties from bad ones is COMMUNICATION.

By adding the dots for TP, it dumbs things down a bit, and relaxes some of the need for excellent communication within a party.

cheers Smiley: boozing


I don't agree with this statement. A good party will still need good communication as to when the WS is delivered, what WS's to use, MBs to follow, different tactics while fighting etc. All this concept does is remove the need to repeatedly spam the chat channel with your TP status every 10 seconds. As much as that part is communication, I don't think it ever took a lot. It makes it easier on our eyes so we don't have to sift through as much chat spam, but the need for communication is still ever present. eg. We still have to organize ourselves to take advantage of our TPs now - which IMO was the brunt of the PT communications.
____________________________
Keilun
18 Warrior
Everfrost
#41 May 20 2004 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
428 posts
Quote:
trickybeck the Sly:
The one problem I have is this:

One of things that separates good players/parties from bad ones is COMMUNICATION.

By adding the dots for TP, it dumbs things down a bit, and relaxes some of the need for excellent communication within a party.

i agree with your statement that communication is key to a good party. However, there's a difference between good communication and unnecessary communication to make up for an interface that doesn't display such vital information. I think it would actually help communication in a group, less macro spamming of

"HP:928 TP:55"
"HP:928 TP:78"
"HP:928 TP:94"
"HP:928 TP:107"
"TP:107 {(Ready For Skillchain!)}"

i also think that by going to the Party>Member List you should be able to see all ailments or buffs on each player, an experience bar, and attack and defense ratings. All of this is less important than being able to see party member's TP on the party window. Let communication be for things that matter 5 seconds later. once someone's told the party what their tp is twice, their first tp tell doesn't matter any more, and after they state their tp a third time, the 2nd one doesn't matter. when you are in a pt, you are concerned with what their TP is right now, not 5 minutes ago. that's just eating up useful lines in the party buffer. :) i believe that displaying TP on the user interface in the party window will really help keep communication for what its meant for.
#42 May 20 2004 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Props on your updated Numbered TP! Very Easy to read, non-obtrusive, and informative were all characteristics i was looking for. You accomplished those.

As to the concern for lack of good communication comment, last time i knew good information only helped remove bad communication not positive communication. This will help eliminate alot of the unneccessary "/macro <call>" spamming. That is a welcome change in my opinion!
____________________________
Fenrir - UnforgottenUnity
Poizaru - 27WAR/12MNK
Nukaru - 15WHM
#43 May 31 2004 at 3:17 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
936 posts
ok...how about ur name starts flashig when your tp to 100% and above..like an Aura around ur name.what i'm trying to say its, not ur name..but the outside of ur name...



____________________________
  • I
  • d Dragon

    Server: Gilgamesh
    Jobs: MNK 75,WAR 46,DRG 43,SAM 48,THF 42,BLU 36,NIN 35,BLM 18, RNG 17, WHM 11

    Lv.40 MNK/DRG: A Dream...@ 90%.
    Lv.75 MNK/war's Profile:
    _::_)7


    Random:
    GARDEN! It su no hikawaaah. deaeruto ne-ga~a~tah...
    GARDEN! Sugi yuku~kono kisetsu nonakede-itsu made~mo..
    #44 Jun 30 2004 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
    *
    155 posts
    hmm bout the flashing names i think thatll be a bit weird to see. Not to mention on the number of noobs that are gonna go, hey whys your name flashing. Just the numbers is benifit enough
    ____________________________
    DRAGON-ELVAAN BARD/WHM-HADES
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?5199
    #45 Dec 08 2004 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
    15 posts
    Quote:
    I agree. Numbers with no bar = win.


    Couldn't have said it better but maybe for the mages already having problems there could be an option to turn the TP off and just show the HP and MP.
    ____________________________
    {/sigh}
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?48558
    Cenote - Carbuncle
    #46 Sep 14 2005 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    31 posts
    Awesome Awesome idea....

    and the idea to split the chat window NOW PLEASE!!!

    that is SOOOo important / nice. I thought of that the very SECOND i logged in. It needs to be done.

    Kelemit
    #47 Sep 14 2005 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
    ***
    1,006 posts
    I really like the idea but two points to note >.> (mild killjoy warning on this - meh i'm old)

    Probably not the best time to be submitting doctored fraps pics on a suggestion thread SE may or may not read.

    spoilers warning in main post (for the 1% of players but still)
    ____________________________
    Remember a Monk is for life not just for Christmas
    Reply To Thread

    Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

     

    Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CDT
    Anonymous Guests (18)