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Leave Marius alone! :'((Follow

#1 Feb 14 2014 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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So, yeah, apparently the world hates us now. And we're about to put down one more.

Excerpts from CNN.com comment section:

Bob wrote:
Why didn't they neuter the giraffe? I know, the sadists that killed him wouldn't have been able to satisfy their blood lust.
The inbreeding that should be limited is the zoo staff. I have an idea: gather up the children of the zoo staff and fix them so they cant inbreed with other Danes and produce more of their disgusting ilk.
E. Ellet wrote:
Bengt Holst is the Zoo director, and he is old enough to have been a war criminal in ww2. My gut tells me that he is a wanted War Criminal. I think I will report him to the proper authorities who still hunt down WW2 **** war criminals.


Their tears are precious.

Thoughts?
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#2 Feb 14 2014 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like how you guys made the kids watch.
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#3 Feb 14 2014 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I like how you guys made the kids watch.
This. I'm sure it was educational.

Also, pro-tip: don't be a giraffe.
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#4 Feb 14 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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My cursory understanding is that the giraffe in question wasn't genetically divergent enough to be a good breeding partner, he was expensive to keep around, finding him a new home would have been difficult due to various regulations and giraffes are categorized as "least concern" in terms of endangerment in the wild. So, aside from the "kids watched him get turned into lion steaks" angle, his death shouldn't be any real big deal. Putting him down opened a slot for a good breeding male to make the overall captive population healthier.
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#5 Feb 14 2014 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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People are dumb.

The captive giraffe population is, according to those in the know, better off without it. I'm sure a millionaire or two would agree to make it a pet, but it's not going to contribute to a healthy herd or anything.

I listened to one of the zoo-dudes talking. It sounded like the breed lines are monitored across all major zoos/wildlife parks world wide. I suppose killing the giraffe guarantees it won't breed defectively or something.

Also, I bet giraffe meat is good.
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#6 Feb 14 2014 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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When there were like 15 other wildlife facilities going "Hey, we'll take him and pay for shipping" at least 2 of which qualified for international breeding program and housing standards, that argument falls kind of short. I think they just wanted a giraffe barbeque, and who wouldn't want a giraffe steak or two really?
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#7 Feb 14 2014 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
When there were like 15 other wildlife facilities going "Hey, we'll take him and pay for shipping" at least 2 of which qualified for international breeding program and housing standards, that argument falls kind of short. I think they just wanted a giraffe barbeque, and who wouldn't want a giraffe steak or two really?

Quote:
"Our giraffes are part of an international breeding program, which has a purpose of ensuring a sound and healthy population of giraffes," Bengt Holst, scientific director at Copenhagen Zoo, told CNN. "It can only be done by matching the genetic composition of the various animals with the available space. ... When giraffes breed as well as they do now, then you will inevitably run into so-called surplus problems now and then."

CNN anchor Jonathan Mann asked Holst if it would have been possible to sterilize Marius or move him to another zoo to avoid killing him.

"If we just sterilize him, he will take up space for more genetically valuable giraffes," Holst answered.
Presumably if these 15 places have room for a giraffe there is a breedable one available.

Seems stupid to not just have just slipped Marius out in the dark of the night and ground him up for lions meat all quietly like.
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#8 Feb 14 2014 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Should have turned him loose in the lion's pen and let nature do what it does. Would have been a lot more educational for the kids that way.
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#9 Feb 14 2014 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Should have turned him loose in the lion's pen and let nature do what it does. Would have been a lot more educational for the kids that way.

Either way, my roommate really wants to buy the giraffe snuff video.
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#10 Feb 14 2014 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
When there were like 15 other wildlife facilities going "Hey, we'll take him and pay for shipping" at least 2 of which qualified for international breeding program and housing standards, that argument falls kind of short. I think they just wanted a giraffe barbeque, and who wouldn't want a giraffe steak or two really?


They weren't going to send him to a facility outside the EAZA, because they'd have no control over his well-being. Sure, the zoo who'd take him in might be following international standards, but what if they had eventually passed him on to a third zoo and so on?

It was a matter of guaranteeing his well-being once he left the zoo's care, and they couldn't, so they chose to euthanize him. Marius is in giraffe heaven, and he saved some livestock from the gallows in the process. Lions were probably happy as well. Bacon is good, but giraffe steak? **** yes.

Edit: The giraffe mentioned in the second link is apparently not going to be euthanized. It was a rumor that spread due to the giraffe sharing name with the other giraffe.

Edited, Feb 14th 2014 10:46pm by Mazra
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#11 Feb 14 2014 at 8:11 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.
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#12 Feb 16 2014 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.

Ur Trollin' Smiley: glare
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#13 Feb 16 2014 at 8:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Marius is in giraffe heaven, and he saved some livestock from the gallows in the process.

Should have been named Enjolras.
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#14 Feb 16 2014 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.


Are you saying we euthanize each other to prevent overpopulation and inbreeding? Smiley: dubious
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#15 Feb 16 2014 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.


Are you saying we euthanize each other to prevent overpopulation and inbreeding? Smiley: dubious


We do in a socialist Utopia, like the one Obama wants to make the great America we knew into.
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#16 Feb 16 2014 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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Crazy bastards.
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#17 Feb 19 2014 at 7:30 PM Rating: Default
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Mazra wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.


Are you saying we euthanize each other to prevent overpopulation and inbreeding? Smiley: dubious


I'm saying that socialism and eugenics (and euthanasia) tend to walk hand in hand. When you shift the focus of a society from individual rights to group outcomes and make the government responsible for maximizing those outcomes, the idea that the government might accomplish this best by eliminating those most costly and least productive isn't a giant leap to make. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

I mean when folks say stuff like this:

George Bernard Shaw wrote:
You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can't justify your existence, if you're not pulling your weight in the social boat, if you're not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can't be of very much use to yourself.


Many have argued that Shaw was just joking, or presenting a reductio ad absurdum argument. But then we'd have to assume he was also joking when he suggested making death chambers for the unfit and the need to develop a gas which could accomplish this quickly and efficiently back in 1910 or so. And maybe he was just joking around. But some people didn't think this idea was a joke, did they?

And hey. We'd have to also discount his support for Stalin's actions in the USSR in 1933:

GBS wrote:
But the most elaborate code of this sort would still have left unspecified a hundred ways in which wreckers of Communism could have sidetracked it without ever having to face the essential questions: are you pulling your weight in the social boat? are you giving more trouble than you are worth? have you earned the privilege of living in a civilized community? That is why the Russians were forced to set up an Inquisition or Star Chamber, called at first the Cheka and now the **** Pay Oo (Ogpu), to go into these questions and "liquidate" persons who could not answer them satisfactorily.


So maybe not joking around. And while he was perhaps the most outspoken and publicly recorded socialist of his day, he was then just parroting the common thoughts of the day within those august intellectuals, who were all sure they knew better than everyone else how a society should be run. Great ideas, right?


Modern socialists insist that these things aren't part of their brand of socialism. They go to great lengths to distance themselves from these kinds of ideas, and especially anyone who actually carried them out. The horrors of the holocaust were so completely reviled that no one could continue to publicly associate any political movement with those ideas anymore. But they're still linked. What makes socialist theory "work" is the necessity of the state to somehow force people to be productive. You must replace the free market incentive of personal economic growth with something else.


I don't think it's hard for folks who live in socialist countries to recognize that they are more or less subject to the whim of the government for their livelihood. And that's remarkably like an animal in the zoo, isn't it?
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#18 Feb 19 2014 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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#19 Feb 19 2014 at 10:24 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
The horrors of the holocaust were so completely reviled that no one could continue to publicly associate any political movement with those ideas anymore. But they're still linked. What makes socialist theory "work" is the necessity of the state to somehow force people to be productive. You must replace the free market incentive of personal economic growth with something else.

I don't think it's hard for folks who live in socialist countries to recognize that they are more or less subject to the whim of the government for their livelihood. And that's remarkably like an animal in the zoo, isn't it?

I know your completely retarded when in comes to history, but, once again. DESPITE THE NAME (NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY), THE **** WERE NEITHER SOCIALIST NOR A PARTY FOR THE WORKERS.

I bet you think the US Army slaughtered the SS at Malmedey, too.

You ****

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 9:37pm by Bijou
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#20 Feb 19 2014 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: laugh

Hoooo-boy.
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#21 Feb 19 2014 at 10:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I know your completely retarded when in comes to history, but, once again. DESPITE THE NAME (NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY), THE **** WERE NEITHER SOCIALIST NOR A PARTY FOR THE WORKERS.

Before you even get started on this, remember that the guy you're engaging with just spent umpteen pages insisting that a soda commercial was an evil socialist plot to destroy America by disintegrating its culture and forcing us all into enclaves, unable to communicate with our neighbors.

Then ask yourself if you think you're really going to have a fruitful discussion here.
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#22 Feb 19 2014 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Ahh; I'd get equally **** if he insisted that the moon was made of cheese, too.

I just really @#%^ing hate it when people propagate lies as the truth. (WW II in particular, as that's my balliwick, so to speak).

Edited, Feb 19th 2014 9:40pm by Bijou
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#23 Feb 20 2014 at 4:31 AM Rating: Good
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I craned my neck to watch it on the news. That shows that while he may have become delicious steak, he's with us in spirit.
#24 Feb 20 2014 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Mazra wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Elinda wrote:
People are dumb.


In this case though, I don't think their concern is so much motivated by stupidity but the fear that comes from the vague flash of realization that in the kind of socialist utopias they idolize, they become very much like the giraffes. It's self preservation by proxy.


Are you saying we euthanize each other to prevent overpopulation and inbreeding? Smiley: dubious


I'm saying that socialism and eugenics (and euthanasia) tend to walk hand in hand. When you shift the focus of a society from individual rights to group outcomes and make the government responsible for maximizing those outcomes, the idea that the government might accomplish this best by eliminating those most costly and least productive isn't a giant leap to make. It's not like it hasn't happened before.


Huh, we sure hit the Godwin stage real fast.

But, yeah, we should have sold the giraffe...



Edited, Feb 20th 2014 11:35am by Mazra
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#25 Feb 20 2014 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:

I don't think it's hard for folks who live in socialist countries to recognize that they are more or less subject to the whim of the government for their livelihood. And that's remarkably like an animal in the zoo, isn't it?

Trolls are worthless and shouldn't take up valuable resources that others could put to better use.

Get a grip boy.
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#26 Feb 20 2014 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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I would have paid good money to have **** with that giraffe.
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#27 Feb 20 2014 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I just really @#%^ing hate it when people propagate lies as the truth. (WW II in particular, as that's my balliwick, so to speak).
We never hear a thing about all the giraffes that died in concentration camps, not a darn thing.

Utter travesty. Smiley: disappointed
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#28 Feb 20 2014 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Amusingly, it occurs to me that the first actual line from that is "First they came for the Socialists...". Next Gbaji can claim the **** were all trade unionists and Jews.
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#29 Feb 20 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Yeah, sorry about that.
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#30 Feb 20 2014 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The horrors of the holocaust were so completely reviled that no one could continue to publicly associate any political movement with those ideas anymore. But they're still linked. What makes socialist theory "work" is the necessity of the state to somehow force people to be productive. You must replace the free market incentive of personal economic growth with something else.

I don't think it's hard for folks who live in socialist countries to recognize that they are more or less subject to the whim of the government for their livelihood. And that's remarkably like an animal in the zoo, isn't it?

I know your completely retarded when in comes to history, but, once again. DESPITE THE NAME (NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY), THE **** WERE NEITHER SOCIALIST NOR A PARTY FOR THE WORKERS.


Sigh. And yet, nearly every single thing they did (at least the ones we revile most) were things that were commonly proposed by the socialists of the day. Eugenics was a core component of socialist movements right up until Germany actually did it, and the world condemned it universally. It was an open part of the socialist ideology. What's happening is that modern socialists engage in revisionist history so as to distance themselves from what happened in Germany (and other places like Russia, China, Cambodia, etc).

If it was just about the name, you'd have a point. But it's not. It's about socialists proposing that we create systems where the weak of society are culled so the strong may thrive. The only difference between socialism back then and socialism today is that the proponents of socialism back then weren't afraid to follow their ideology to its logical conclusion. And that logical conclusion required the implementation of some kind of system to eliminate the non-productive members of society.

I know that this is non PC to say, but the only way socialism actually works in the long run is if you do this. You cannot build a system in which the government provides for the people and allow the people to consume more than they produce. Well, you can, but it will collapse. At some point you absolutely must either eliminate the non-productive people, or force them to be productive. Either of which requires more or less abandoning the concept of liberty. This hasn't magically changed since the early 20th century. The socialist thinkers have just gotten smart enough not to directly tell the masses what will happen if they follow their ideology.


If you take your head out of the sand and actually engage your brain, you'll realize that this is true.
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#31 Feb 20 2014 at 8:10 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Amusingly, it occurs to me that the first actual line from that is "First they came for the Socialists...". Next Gbaji can claim the **** were all trade unionists and Jews.


Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels. In Germany "the socialists" were a particular political group. They were opposed to the Nazis, not because their ideology was radically different, but because they were very similar, and they were competing for the same supporters. Same deal with the communists. All three groups were opposed to the existing government for much of the same reasons. It was more an argument about who should be in charge than anything else (well, that and the communists wanted Germany to basically join the USSR as a satellite state, but I suppose that's still boils down to who's in charge).
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#32 Feb 20 2014 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels...

...he said as he tried with all his might to link socialism to Nazism...

Smiley: laugh Ah, you. You might be dangerous if you could ever make an argument that wasn't immediately laughed at.
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#33 Feb 20 2014 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
It's about socialists (racial supremacists, actualy) proposing that we create systems where the weak of society are culled so the strong may thrive. .


gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels. In Germany "the socialists" were a particular political group. They were opposed to the Nazis, not because their ideology was radically different, but because they were very similar, and they were competing for the same supporters. Same deal with the communists. ).

You really are astonishingly, breathtakingly, mind-blowingly stupid.

I get that you don't get your news from anywhere, but you really should get your history from a reliable source.
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#34 Feb 20 2014 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels...

...he said as he tried with all his might to link socialism to Nazism...

Smiley: laugh Ah, you. You might be dangerous if you could ever make an argument that wasn't immediately laughed at.


Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.

In this case, when people like me argue that the **** were socialists, we usually actually look at what the **** did, what they said, the arguments they used, the social policies they created, the thinkers they drew upon, etc. Then we compare these to a list of socialist positions, ideologies, etc, and show how similar they are.

When people like you argue against this, you ignore the long list of commonalities and instead focus on surface stuff and fallacious counters like "Just because the word Socialist is in their name, that doesn't mean they're socialists. Just like all those countries with "Democratic" and "Republic" in their names". That's great and all, but it doesn't mean that a country or party with Socialist in the name *isn't* actually socialist (like say the USSR). Which is kinda the point.


The **** were socialists. Period. They shared nearly every single political position with the socialists of the day. And no amount of you sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to hear it makes it not true.

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 7:22pm by gbaji
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#35 Feb 20 2014 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Wrong on every single level.
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#36 Feb 20 2014 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.
Not just liberals laugh at you. But you know, getting caught up in labels and all that.
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#37 Feb 20 2014 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.

Or that what they just read was more funny than anything else. You get the responses you deserve, not the ones you wish you deserved.
Quote:
The **** were socialists. Period.

Even if this were true, the ole "all tigers are cats, not all cats are tigers" applies. No one today gets worked up about **** purely on the basis of their stance on government business regulation or banking policy. The only reason anyone bothers trying to link the two (and let's face it, the only reason you're trying to) is to tangentially link economic socialism to the atrocities of the Holocaust, military expansionism and other related things that actually had nothing at all to do with socialism. It's a naked (and rather pathetic) appeal to emotion.

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 10:17pm by Jophiel
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#38 Feb 20 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
pathetic

See, I always leave out descriptive words like that.

Thanks, Jophiel!!
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#39 Feb 21 2014 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is this thread about naked giraffes yet?
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#40 Feb 21 2014 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Is this thread about naked giraffes yet?

Giraffes are naked by default, so it always has been.
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#41 Feb 21 2014 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.
Not just liberals laugh at you. But you know, getting caught up in labels and all that.

Sorry to say, but it's you that's being laughed at. There is no slippery slope, no imaginable leaps from giraffe to peeps. GB Shaw is a playwright who's been dead for more than half a century - why do you quote him some 4 generations later when what you quoted has not come to pass?

In fact, I think it's the liberals who recognize that every single person has worth. Even trolls.

As Goodwill tells us, "Nothing goes to waste, not a shirt, not a shoe, not a person".

...or a giraffe.







Edited, Feb 21st 2014 7:03pm by Elinda
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#42 Feb 21 2014 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
GB Shaw is a playwright who's been dead for more than half a century - why do you quote him some 4 generations later when what you quoted has not come to pass?

To be fair, he's an acolyte to an ideology that sincerely believes "Party of Lincoln" should be winning them minority votes. This sort of thing is just what he does.
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#43 Mar 26 2014 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!
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#44 Mar 26 2014 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!


Next will be the Hyenas.
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#45 Mar 26 2014 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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So they killed the giraffe and fed it to the lions. Begs the question of whether or not they killed the lions and fed them to the giraffes.

I mean that only seems fair.

Edited, Mar 26th 2014 9:51am by someproteinguy
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#46 Mar 26 2014 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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43,643 posts
The plans were for the lions all along. The giraffe was just their last meal.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#47 Jun 27 2014 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
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11,709 posts
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Elinda wrote:
When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!


Next will be the Hyenas.
Turns out it was the bears.

Putting it on display to teach kids that nature can be cruel, only they killed it with an injection. Must have been all natural chemicals in the needle. Smiley: rolleyes
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That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#48 Jun 27 2014 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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43,643 posts
Lions and giraffes and bears, oh my.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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