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Controversy over a Super Bowl adFollow

#52 Feb 05 2014 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Yes.. Today. Because some of us have been fighting to ensure that English is the common language we all adopt against a growing movement to do otherwise.

Hahahahahahaha

Yeah, that's it. You're a real American hero Smiley: laugh
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If you agree that a higher percentage of immigrants speaking English is good, then why am I a racist/bigot for saying we should be encouraging immigrants to speak English?

I didn't call you a racist or a bigot. I called you a jingoistic xenophobe. Seemed appropriate for someone losing his **** over "America the Beautiful" being sung in the "wrong" languages ad using that as a launching pad to rant about how the scary Left wants to Balkanize the nation until it crumbles.
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#53 Feb 05 2014 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't call you a racist or a bigot. I called you a jingoistic xenophobe. Seemed appropriate for someone losing his sh*t over "America the Beautiful" being sung in the "wrong" languages ad using that as a launching pad to rant about how the scary Left wants to Balkanize the nation until it crumbles.


This.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to enable interpersonal communication by having a common language. I'm 100% on board with increasing access to English language courses for migrants or natives looking to learn to speak English.

But there IS something (a lot) wrong with being so xenophobic that just the idea of "America is beautiful" being said in different languages drives you insane.

Because what you're saying isn't "I want them to be able to speak English," what you're saying is "I want them to not be allowed to speak another language."

And that's really freaking different.
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#54 Feb 05 2014 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
I didn't call you a racist or a bigot. I called you a jingoistic xenophobe.


Whatever words are used, you're attacking me for saying something that you also claim to be a good thing. If a higher percentage of immigrants learning English is good, then how can it be bad to say that we should be encouraging immigrants to speak English?

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Seemed appropriate for someone losing his sh*t over "America the Beautiful" being sung in the "wrong" languages ad using that as a launching pad to rant about how the scary Left wants to Balkanize the nation until it crumbles.


And yet, someone thought that it was a great idea to show people from different backgrounds singing "America the Beautiful" in different languages. What did you think that was about if not about opposing the idea that American culture includes the adoption of the English language? That was the message! So you can sit here denying this, but it's right there in front of you. That ad was designed to make people accept a multi-language America by associating multiple languages with ethnic diversity so that anyone who opposed the ad would be viewed as a bigot/racist/xenophobe.

And, based on the responses out there, it worked. The ad was a ringing bell Joph.
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#55 Feb 05 2014 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whatever words are used, you're attacking me for saying something that you also claim to be a good thing. If a higher percentage of immigrants learning English is good, then how can it be bad to say that we should be encouraging immigrants to speak English?


"Encourage to learn English" is not logically equivalent to "Discourage them from speaking other languages."
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#56 Feb 05 2014 at 8:23 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But there IS something (a lot) wrong with being so xenophobic that just the idea of "America is beautiful" being said in different languages drives you insane.


WTF? It's not driving me insane. I'm saying that it sends the wrong message. And if you truly agree that encouraging English as the common language of America is a good thing, then you ought to agree.

The problem is that, as I pointed out in the post above, the ad was designed to maximize the association with other emotional issues (like racism, ethnic acceptance, etc), so that your first response to anyone criticizing the ad would be to think they were being racist or bigoted. And once you formed that initial emotional response, it's nearly impossible for you to back out of it and look at the issue with fresh impartial eyes.

Um... which was the point. Grats on being manipulated.

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Because what you're saying isn't "I want them to be able to speak English," what you're saying is "I want them to not be allowed to speak another language."


Nope. You're projecting. How about instead of trying to demand that I agree with what you think my position is, you actually stop, breathe, and listen to what I'm telling you?

I have no problem with someone speaking other languages. I do have a problem with directly associating the use of other languages with "America the beautiful". It sends a message that a common language isn't part of what makes America, America. It's the singing of that particular song in multiple languages that I have an issue with. If they had sung a song that was about cultural diversity, I'd have had no problem with it. But they were singing a song that is praising a single specific culture.

By singing it in multiple languages, they're saying that American culture isn't about one language. But, as you, me, and Joph, have all agreed. Part of American culture is about adopting one common language.

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And that's really freaking different.


Yes. And I"m at a loss why you keep thinking that's what I'm saying after I've repeatedly said "that's not what I'm saying". If it was, I'd be offended by the singing of any song in any language other than English, right? But that's not the case. It's about that particular song, and what that particular song means, and what message is sent when you very intentionally sing it in multiple languages.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 6:28pm by gbaji
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#57 Feb 05 2014 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:
Whatever words are used, you're attacking me for saying something that you also claim to be a good thing. If a higher percentage of immigrants learning English is good, then how can it be bad to say that we should be encouraging immigrants to speak English?


"Encourage to learn English" is not logically equivalent to "Discourage them from speaking other languages."


For the umpteenth time. No one is saying people can't speak other languages. I'm saying that by singing that particular song in multiple languages, it sends a very specific message about American culture and language. OMG are you freaking dense as ****!

And not, it's not accidental. They chose that one specific song to sing. It wasn't like a group of different people who speak different languages were just hanging out and singing random songs, and happened to decide to sing America the Beautiful. It was an ad. Every single element of that ad was chosen and deliberate and has meaning. The people who made that ad spent months going over every single aspect of it, and if you don't think they knew exactly what message they were sending, and how people would react, and how people would react to that reaction, you are dumb as a freaking rock.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 6:26pm by gbaji
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#58 Feb 05 2014 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Whatever words are used, you're attacking me for saying something that you also claim to be a good thing.

No, I'm attacking you for your hysterical attitude towards it and insane screeds about how The Left!! wants to tear down America by having people sing in different languages.

Quote:
And yet, someone thought that it was a great idea to show people from different backgrounds singing "America the Beautiful" in different languages. What did you think that was about if not about opposing the idea that American culture includes the adoption of the English language?

Smiley: laugh

Seriously. You're a @#%^ing loon.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 8:28pm by Jophiel
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#59 Feb 05 2014 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't been driving around noon at all this week. Was this a hot topic with Rush and Hannity?
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#60 Feb 05 2014 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Because some of us have been fighting
How loose a definition of "fight" and "us" are you working with here?
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#61 Feb 05 2014 at 8:33 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Quote:
And yet, someone thought that it was a great idea to show people from different backgrounds singing "America the Beautiful" in different languages. What did you think that was about if not about opposing the idea that American culture includes the adoption of the English language?

Smiley: laugh

Seriously. You're a @#%^ing loon.


Am I? Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages Joph?

I'm honestly curious. Let's imagine that there were two version of this ad. Both of them had the exact same visuals. The only difference is that in one, the entire song is sung by each group in English, and in the other, each section is sung in a different language (as the ad appeared).

Why would you chose to do the ad one way versus the other? And don't say it was just random chance. Nothing in an ad like that is unplanned. They chose to do the audio the way they did it. They had a reason for doing so. There was some message that having the song sung in multiple languages sent that they preferred over one in which it was sung entirely in English. What was it?

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 6:34pm by gbaji
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#62 Feb 05 2014 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The idea that American culture is incompatible with other languages is crap. It's xenophobic and, frankly, racist.


Um... No, it's not. A common culture requires a common language. This is exactly the problem I'm talking about. You've been taught that culture is just people living in the same geographical area. But it's not. They have to communicate with each other in order to be a part of the same culture. You cannot have a single culture in which the people do not all speak a common language.

It is not xenophobic or racist to say this. It's simply the truth. The problem is that there has been a movement to eliminate the idea of what "culture" actually is and replace it with a bunch of garbage ideas. You're the victim of exactly the sort of long term multi-cultural la de da... ... ...

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 5:57pm by gbaji


There is something loaded into this kind of talk. I can't quite put my finger on it, but don't you think it's convenient that nothing can be considered "racist" or "xenophobic" so long as you can come up with some half-hearted excuse for it not to be. You are side stepping and telling us what is and isn't culture. The bottom line is we live in a country inhabited by people of many cultures with many languages, and getting indignant and upset whenever someone who isn't part of your culture makes themselves known in public is nothing short of childish, and as far as I know we are all grown-*** men and women here. I can't believe we're even having this discussion.

How selfish do you have to be to expect everyone to assimilate themselves into your culture just because you feel it is somehow dominate or superior to theirs? Is it hurting you somehow that people with recent roots in other countries still speak the language they grew up with or celebrate holidays you've never heard of instead of Christmas and Easter?

What will happen in 40 years when the majority of people in this country speak Spanish? Are you going to give up speaking English and learn the language they think you should be speaking to them? "God all these dirty gringos stinking up our community." They'll say, in Spanish.

What really blows my mind is how quick folks are to defend themselves when they're accused of being a racist and/or bigot. It doesn't matter if every other word that comes out of their mouth is the "N" word, or how frequently they rant about wanting to round up the darkies and hang them. They're so NOT racist. They will proudly wear the words "stubborn" and "ignorant" like a badge of ******* honor. Just don't call them racist, lest you break their poor little hearts.
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#63 Feb 05 2014 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Am I? Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages Joph?

To make you go ******* insane, apparently.

I'm not playing this game. More entertaining to see you show your true self.
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#64 Feb 05 2014 at 8:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
More entertaining to see you show your true self.
Only thing that would make it better would be if Clint Eastwood did a voiceover.
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#65 Feb 05 2014 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think anything is going to beat Gbaji taking credit for the rate of language assimilation among immigrant populations.
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#66 Feb 05 2014 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
By breaking the song into parts and having them sung in different languages, it sends the opposite message.
That we accept you even if you don't speak English yet?


Nope. It says that we encourage you to not speak English ever, nor is it important that you teach it to your children, because America isn't about one culture or one language, so you should oppose anyone who thinks you should learn to speak English. Please tell me you know that there has been a fight over the whole "English as common language in the US" for like 50 years now and that this ad clearly takes a side in that fight?
Well I'm pretty sure you think that's the case. You know people do support those ESL classes in the schools and such.

Quote:
And yet, we still have opposition to any sort of movement to make English the official language of the US.
If it helps you feel any better, I'm rather ambivalent to either side of that issue. It has never been and we survived fine, if someone is dying to make it official *shrugs* whatever, no skin off my back.

Quote:
So they want to sing American the Beautiful in English, right? So why not show all those people singing it in English so as to show us the ideal that these kids are striving for? Wouldn't that send the right message in support of all those kids who want to learn English? Do you really not see how this commercial takes a position in opposition to that? It's telling those kids "There's no need to learn English".
I'm going to spend the rest of the night rather dumbfounded that those points are all connected in your head somehow.

gbaji wrote:
Because some of us have been fighting to ensure that English is the common language we all adopt against a growing movement to do otherwise.
Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#67 Feb 05 2014 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages.. ?
To sell soda pop.

Edit: Seriously dude, did you miss the globalization thing that's been brewing over the last few decades? Everybody is learning more languages than ever, because people from all over the world are mixing more than ever. If you live in a non-English speaking country, you're likely learning some state-mandated English. If you live in an English speaking country, you're likely learning another popular second language. We need it these days when we're so interconnected. I mean, tourist signs in 6 different languages, Spanish announcements on the train alongside English ones. It's not just happening here you know.

Right? Smiley: confused

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 7:51pm by someproteinguy
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#68 Feb 05 2014 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
By breaking the song into parts and having them sung in different languages, it sends the opposite message.
That we accept you even if you don't speak English yet?


Nope. It says that we encourage you to not speak English ever

No it doesn't.

I'd ask what's wrong with you, but I don't have that much time.
#69 Feb 05 2014 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You've been taught that culture is just people living in the same geographical area.
Because you say so? Hubris much?


I don't speak for any but myself on the issue of presuming you are a racist, but the fact remains that a large minority of GOP folk I know are racist. A significant chunk of the GOP are racist. You are a member of the GOP. You stand with the racists.

If it looks like a ****, and it smell like a ****.........
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#70 Feb 06 2014 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji must be a real killjoy on It's a Small World ride.

Just to keep you honest gbaji, (as you're already apparently a bit loco) can you please cite some evidence that supports your theory that non-English speaking immigrants to the US are unwilling to learn English?

plz.
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#71 Feb 06 2014 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, English is a terrible language to learn. We should have all switched to Esperanto decades ago.
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#72 Feb 06 2014 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Honestly, English is a terrible language to learn.
Smiley: dubious
English is a grammatically simple language that's much easier to learn than most if not all other languages I know.
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#73 Feb 06 2014 at 8:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I learned English easier than any other language, therefore English must be the easiest language to learn and all non-English speakers are just lazy. Also they hate America. Because the Left forced them to do so via soda commercials.
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#74 Feb 06 2014 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Hippy.


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#75 Feb 06 2014 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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The dudes at Stormfront don't seem half as upset as Gbaji. A handful of "I told my wife to enjoy her Coke because we're never buying any again" posts but no multi-paragraph screeds about how the Left is trying to break apart America by encouraging immigrants to live in monoethnic enclaves and dissolve our culture via soda advertising.
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#76 Feb 06 2014 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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That's what The Left wants you to think.
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