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Controversy over a Super Bowl adFollow

#1 Feb 03 2014 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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This ad is apparently controversial. I'll let you figure out why because I couldn't.



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#2 Feb 03 2014 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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#3 Feb 03 2014 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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There were no white people in it.

Also, one of the girls is wasting cocaine by blowing it off of her hand.
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#4 Feb 03 2014 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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cynyck wrote:
This ad is apparently controversial. I'll let you figure out why because I couldn't.


The ad isn't controversial. The comments made by random people emboldened by the anonymity of the internet are controversial.
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#5 Feb 03 2014 at 8:09 PM Rating: Default
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cynyck wrote:
This ad is apparently controversial. I'll let you figure out why because I couldn't.


Assuming you're talking about the coke ad (youtube links don't work in my browser at work), it's controversial because it was frankly a hamfisted display of every progressive cultural idea you could jam into 60 seconds of airtime. I guess my issue with it (and I remember noticing it at the time, but had honestly forgotten about it until now) was that it was just too overdone. You want society to be accepting and diverse, then show normal amounts of diversity every day in normal every day things. Making a grand and obvious show of it smacks of white folks constantly making a point of talking about their black friends.

It's trying too hard IMO. You defeat the entire point of the exercise if you're beating people over the head with your image of a perfect multicultural world. More problematic is that you more or less do it intentionally to invite backlash. There's a point where it's not really about someone being bigoted but rather just being annoyed that you're constantly putting "let's all not be bigoted" messages in front of them. It's insulting really. Kinda like how if someone stands in front of you and says "Let's not fight" over and over for an hour, it's going to really make you want to hit that person in the face.


And frankly, since I noticed a number of comments in response to Leahy's response, there's a difference between people of multiple cultures and backgrounds becoming one America (which is the idea behind the whole "E Pluribus Unum" angle) and people of multiple cultures and backgrounds demanding that America must adjust to them instead of the other way around. Totally different. So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.
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#6 Feb 03 2014 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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I think there was a white person in it. At the beginning, a cowboy actually.

And I didn't get the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. My grandparents spoke Italian. If Coke had made a commercial in which it filmed the people in Brooklyn 50 years ago, there would have been a lot of people singing in Italian. People do not come to the US and immediately start speaking the King's English, there is a period of adjustment. I think the ad is realistic.

I guess we all see something different, based upon what our life experiences have been. And I suppose it's scary for the old immigrants when they become the new boss. Same as the old boss?

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#7 Feb 03 2014 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Also, one of the girls is wasting cocaine by blowing it off of her hand.


The American dream.
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#8 Feb 03 2014 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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Is there anything more American than America?

^ An actual quote from one of the commercials. I mean seriously.
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#9 Feb 04 2014 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
The writers don't have to try because America.
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#10 Feb 04 2014 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.
How? Your country is built on the backs of immigrants from all over the world.
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#11 Feb 04 2014 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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American nationalism is pretty disturbing sometimes.
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#12 Feb 04 2014 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
1st it was the cheerios commercial with the white mother...
Now a song written by a ******* is being sung in different languages!?
/rage



JK. I got a good laugh at the bigot losers I work with as hey raged during one of our breaks yesterday at work.
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#13 Feb 04 2014 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.
How? Your country is built on the backs of immigrants from all over the world.
Shhh, we haven't told certain people, mostly in the south and west, about them. Gotta make our own entertainment.
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#14 Feb 04 2014 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:

And frankly, since I noticed a number of comments in response to Leahy's response, there's a difference between people of multiple cultures and backgrounds becoming one America (which is the idea behind the whole "E Pluribus Unum" angle) and people of multiple cultures and backgrounds demanding that America must adjust to them instead of the other way around. Totally different. So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.
You're serious?!

Maybe it's you that has this decades old image of America and you expect everyone else to fit into it?

There are Americans that speak languages besides English. Recognize them as equal citizens of your country or don't. Your choice. But don't come complaining here when 'your' side only gets a sliver of the non-white vote.

Coca-cola just wants the world to sing in perfect harmony - and to sell as many bottles of soda as they can.





Edited, Feb 4th 2014 3:50pm by Elinda
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#15 Feb 04 2014 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
American nationalism is pretty disturbing sometimes.

I like to think that the rest of the world blows it out of proportion a bit....but then I read a gbaji post. Smiley: oyvey
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#16 Feb 04 2014 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's because most political parties here that are nationalistic also tend to be racist and anti islam and not uncommonly antisemetic as well. Or just badly disguised neo *****.

When I see the zealous nationalism from the USA, that's what comes to mind. I'm not saying it's the same but I find it disturbing nonetheless.
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#17 Feb 04 2014 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's the headscarf thing right?

Always hatin on people. Smiley: disappointed
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#18 Feb 04 2014 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I think it's because most political parties here that are nationalistic also tend to be racist and anti islam and not uncommonly antisemetic as well. Or just badly disguised neo *****.

When I see the zealous nationalism from the USA, that's what comes to mind. I'm not saying it's the same but I find it disturbing nonetheless.


Nationalism itself is pretty disturbing. What's particularly disconcerting about American nationalism is the fact that's so wide spread and tends to carry with it particularly harmful anti-education, anti-science, etc. thoughts. Why improve upon something when it's already perfect??

(Particularly when that lets you keep your world small and limit your exposure to anything you don't understand or don't like).
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#19 Feb 04 2014 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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One of our politicians wanted to tax headscarfs and gave his plan the elegant name of "headrag tax".
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#20 Feb 04 2014 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
One of our politicians wanted to tax headscarfs and gave his plan the elegant name of "headrag tax".
Its not politics if someone isn't offended?
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#21 Feb 04 2014 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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I had heard about this but didn't actually see it myself because I just don't care about football or sports... but now that I've actually watched it... what is the big deal? The seven seconds they showed a *** couple hugging their daughter at a bowling alley? Seven seconds out of an entire minute commercial, and THAT'S what people were up in arms over? The way folks made it sound I thought the entire commercial was just a *** family, and even that was a stretch to be all ***** about.

Folks need to seriously take a look at their priorities if this is what they zero in on. To be honest, I almost missed it and had to rewind a couple times. Just not that big a deal.
#22 Feb 04 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was under the impression it was not about the gays, but the fact that they aren't speaking "American"
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#23 Feb 04 2014 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not speaking American, all sorts of brown people, gays, headscarfs...

The whole thing stinks of liberal. Smiley: disappointed
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#24 Feb 04 2014 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:

The whole thing stinks of liberal. Smiley: disappointed

That would be patchouli.
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#25 Feb 04 2014 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Admittedly, the outrage I heard of was specifically because of the circles I run in but I agree - both are so rock ******* stupid to be upset over that I can't even imagine having that much hate bottled up inside.
#26 Feb 04 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, most of the anger is from the "This is America, speak English!" idiots.
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#27 Feb 04 2014 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
cynyck wrote:
This ad is apparently controversial. I'll let you figure out why because I couldn't.


Assuming you're talking about the coke ad (youtube links don't work in my browser at work), it's controversial because it was frankly a hamfisted display of every progressive cultural idea you could jam into 60 seconds of airtime. I guess my issue with it (and I remember noticing it at the time, but had honestly forgotten about it until now) was that it was just too overdone. You want society to be accepting and diverse, then show normal amounts of diversity every day in normal every day things. Making a grand and obvious show of it smacks of white folks constantly making a point of talking about their black friends.

It's trying too hard IMO. You defeat the entire point of the exercise if you're beating people over the head with your image of a perfect multicultural world. More problematic is that you more or less do it intentionally to invite backlash. There's a point where it's not really about someone being bigoted but rather just being annoyed that you're constantly putting "let's all not be bigoted" messages in front of them. It's insulting really. Kinda like how if someone stands in front of you and says "Let's not fight" over and over for an hour, it's going to really make you want to hit that person in the face.


And frankly, since I noticed a number of comments in response to Leahy's response, there's a difference between people of multiple cultures and backgrounds becoming one America (which is the idea behind the whole "E Pluribus Unum" angle) and people of multiple cultures and backgrounds demanding that America must adjust to them instead of the other way around. Totally different. So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.


Do you think maybe it's just a TV commercial and none of that actually matters?
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#28 Feb 04 2014 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Gbaji has the same genetic mutation that Stephen Colbert has that doesn't allow him to see people's color.

Therefore, no issue in America is color based.

















Ever.
















Seriously, you guys!
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#29 Feb 04 2014 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And frankly, since I noticed a number of comments in response to Leahy's response, there's a difference between people of multiple cultures and backgrounds becoming one America (which is the idea behind the whole "E Pluribus Unum" angle) and people of multiple cultures and backgrounds demanding that America must adjust to them instead of the other way around. Totally different. So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.


Do you think maybe it's just a TV commercial and none of that actually matters?
Where's the fun in that? Smiley: lol

Let people say what they they want. If you can't stand people singing about how much they love your country in a different language you have some seriously misplaced priorities.

Freedom of speech, man, all about the freedom of speech. [:america:]

Edited, Feb 4th 2014 1:23pm by someproteinguy
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#30 Feb 04 2014 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I can see why it might be considered controversial. I find it humorous that people get a massive rage on over it, though.
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#31 Feb 04 2014 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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The only thing about that commercial that I found offensive is that is was used to try to sell soda. I love the concept though, and I think they did a pretty good job of getting their message across. Unfortunately, there are stupid people in the world, so their reactions may differ from mine.
#32 Feb 04 2014 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
gbaji wrote:

And frankly, since I noticed a number of comments in response to Leahy's response, there's a difference between people of multiple cultures and backgrounds becoming one America (which is the idea behind the whole "E Pluribus Unum" angle) and people of multiple cultures and backgrounds demanding that America must adjust to them instead of the other way around. Totally different. So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.
You're serious?!


Yes. Are you saying that there is no difference between the idea of people of different cultural origins and languages joining together and forming a common culture/language versus them living in the same geographical area, but all speaking different languages? Because those are two radically different approaches. Ignoring those differences and playing strange label games is really stupid.

Quote:
Maybe it's you that has this decades old image of America and you expect everyone else to fit into it?


Why is this about me? WTF? I pointed out why people would be upset with the commercial. And frankly, it's a valid point. As I mentioned above, there are two radically different and competing approaches to immigration. One where people of different origins come to the US and "become Americans", and one in which they remain what they were before and demand that the rest of the country adjust to their language and customs. We kinda have to start with a recognition that those are different things.

We should then also recognize that the modern idea of multiculturalism is the latter form and is relatively recent. And whether you agree or not, there is a legitimate argument over whether that's a really good way to manage immigration and cultural assimilation within a nation/society. Simply painting anyone who disagrees with the "everyone speak their own language" form of multiculturalism racists is not particularly helpful. Look at the actual issue at hand. Labeling anyone who disagrees with you a racist or bigot is a waste of time.

Quote:
There are Americans that speak languages besides English. Recognize them as equal citizens of your country or don't.


Huh? This is not about equality. You're making bizarre associative arguments. It's about the ideal of America being that people come here and change to "become Americans" over time. No one's saying that a citizen who does not speak English is less "equal". That's insane! Where the **** do you get that idea? The point is that citizens who do not yet speak English should be striving to learn it, and making sure that their children do, so that they can make the most of their citizenship.

It is not bigotry, or racism, or any other form of hateful "ism" to say that ideally people should learn a common language if they want to join a common culture. If we want to be a nation of "Americans", that's not a bad thing. It's a good ideal to strive for. And that's why making a very deliberate show of having people sing "America the Beautiful" in as many different languages possible sends an incredibly mixed message. It's saying that American isn't about a common culture or language. It's just a collection of different people, all thinking different thoughts, having different ideals, and speaking different languages.

Agree or disagree, but a **** of a lot of people don't agree with that view of America.

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Coca-cola just wants the world to sing in perfect harmony - and to sell as many bottles of soda as they can.


And if they'd chosen a different song; oh perhaps one about teaching the world (note: World) to sing, in perfect harmony even, having people from all different walks of life singing in all different languages would have been perfectly fine. Great even. Why pick that song though? Out of all the songs they could have picked to have sung to their ode to multiculturalism, they picked America the Beautiful? That's not accidental. It was an intentional jibe at anyone who disagrees with the modern multiculturalism view of America.

They were picking a fight. And they knew that the hordes of useful idiots who can't see past simple word association would just jump on the "anyone who's offended is just a bigot!" bandwagon. Sheesh people. Try to have an understanding of the issue beyond that simple surface level. Just this once? There's a legitimate cultural argument at hand. Ignoring it by just declaring one side to be bigots only makes you ignorant.
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#33 Feb 04 2014 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
That's not accidental. It was an intentional jibe at anyone who disagrees with the modern multiculturalism view of America.

They were picking a fight.
Smiley: dubious

I'm pretty sure they were just trying to sell soda pop.

Edit: I mean accidents happen, and sometimes you offend people inadvertently, but you don't design an advertizement to **** off 50% of your potential clients.

Edited, Feb 4th 2014 3:27pm by someproteinguy
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#34 Feb 04 2014 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
That's not accidental. It was an intentional jibe at anyone who disagrees with the modern multiculturalism view of America.

They were picking a fight.
Smiley: dubious

I'm pretty sure they were just trying to sell soda pop.

Edit: I mean accidents happen, and sometimes you offend people inadvertently, but you don't design an advertizement to **** off 50% of your potential clients.


Oh. I'm sure that coca-cola company didn't want to **** anyone off. However, I'd be shocked if the guys on the ad team who sat in a room brainstorming ideas for a coke ad didn't know that this would **** off some people, and chose to do it because it would garner controversy. In fact, I'd put money down that said ad company is spinning this to Coke execs right now on the "but look at all the people talking about the ad!" angle.

Also realize that Coke has long played up its "worldly and caring" image (since the aforementioned teach the world to sing ad run). I'm sure there are a number of folks praising them for "raising the issue" of multiculturalism in the US. It may have stirred up slightly more negative response than they wanted, but I assume they wanted the message. And the kind of people who think up these sorts of ad campaigns tend to think Progressively (not just in the political sense). They know they'll get negative reaction this time. But they also know that lots of people will rise to attack those who react negatively, labeling those people as bigots. More importantly is that there's a public message that "people who disagree with this sort of thing are racists and bigots".

They know that by doing an ad like that today, then when the do another one in ten years, if they've been successful at demonizing the opponents, they wont get as much negativity. That's how they move the chains. Keep putting offensive things in front of people and then attacking them for being offended until each successive generation becomes less offended by it and more accepting of it. That's how progressive movements work. And this ad was part of that kind of movement, even if some of the folks at Coke didn't realize it.
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#35 Feb 04 2014 at 9:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
1st it was the cheerios commercial with the white mother...
Now a song written by a ******* is being sung in different languages!?
/rage



JK. I got a good laugh at the bigot losers I work with as hey raged during one of our breaks yesterday at work.



I'm starting to wonder if this is going to be a thing. If ever a company wants to get its name out there, instead of making commercials mind-numbingly stupid to get people's attention, they should just make them "controversial." Maybe tomorrow there will be a Pepperidge Farm commercial that depicts androgynous *** men embracing and feeding each other cookies.

Whatever makes the most ignorant/vocal people in the country the angriest. Just imagine. "God dammit I'm never goin' to Publix again!" "But why, Grandpa?" "The man in this commercial is using a SNAP card at the checkout and has an uncircumcised *****! ARRGH!"
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#36 Feb 05 2014 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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Gbaji, are you wearing your tinfoil hat?
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#37 Feb 05 2014 at 3:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Try to have an understanding of the issue beyond that simple surface level.
The issue being slow news day for the media sources you swear up and down you don't pay any attention to needed something "rage" inducing for their audience.
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#38 Feb 05 2014 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


They know that by doing an ad like that today, then when the do another one in ten years, if they've been successful at demonizing the opponents, they wont get as much negativity. That's how they move the chains. Keep putting offensive things in front of people and then attacking them for being offended until each successive generation becomes less offended by it and more accepting of it. That's how progressive movements work. And this ad was part of that kind of movement, even if some of the folks at Coke didn't realize it.
The only opponent coke has ever been making ads to beat down is Pepsi.

Take your politics out my soda!
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#39 Feb 05 2014 at 8:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji, how exactly is this a 'modern' thing? Gosh, I remember this episode of Married with Children (everyone's parents watched THAT one) when I was a kid - Al was filling out an application for something or another and one of the questions was "language?" And he declared, "What do you mean, language? I speak American!" The preparer nodded enthusiastically and replied, "Oh, Spanish!" That was what, about twenty years back now?

It's also not news that immigrants come here and speak other languages. My grandparents spoke Italian (when they were alive). Sometimes immigrants speak both English and their native language, which is a heck of a lot more than many americans who can't even master English. Frankly, I'm more upset that many of the people complaining can't string together a coherent thought. The comments sections on a lot of these reports are just insulting.

It's just a stupid thing to be concerned about, and it shows how America just doesn't have its priorities in order. This is a nation of cowards, so afraid of anything that is different. Let's oppress it, rather than learn.
#40 Feb 05 2014 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gbaji wrote:
So yeah, having people singing America the Beautiful in multiple languages does kinda send the wrong message. Actually, not "kinda", it does send the message that a beautiful America is one where everyone speaks all these different languages. Which is certainly controversial.

To some people I guess. Xenophobes and jingoists, mainly.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 8:51am by Jophiel
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#41 Feb 05 2014 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty much.

Colbert's segment is worth watching (as it always is whenever the right gets riled up).
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#42 Feb 05 2014 at 5:34 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
Gbaji, how exactly is this a 'modern' thing?


In the context of Western Civilization, it's modern. As in "in the last 80 years" modern. History occurs (and changes) in periods longer than a decade or two.

Quote:
Gosh, I remember this episode of Married with Children (everyone's parents watched THAT one) when I was a kid - Al was filling out an application for something or another and one of the questions was "language?" And he declared, "What do you mean, language? I speak American!" The preparer nodded enthusiastically and replied, "Oh, Spanish!" That was what, about twenty years back now?


20 years is also well within the period of the "modern liberal progressive movement". Multiculturalism is part of that. Getting people to think that multiculturalism is "good", is something that liberals have been working on for like 50-80 years or so. Think longer term.

Quote:
It's also not news that immigrants come here and speak other languages.


Yes. Great. No one's debating that. The point is that prior to perhaps the latter half of the 20th century, it was broadly accepted that immigrants should learn the language of the country they have immigrated to, and at the very least make sure their children learn it. That was how you became a part of the new culture/nation you were joining. It was part of the process of immigration. Today? The Left pushes this idea that it's not just ok for immigrants to isolate themselves into enclaves within their new country, but it's encouraged as a sort of "all the world in one border" approach.

That's what is meant by "multiculturalism". And there are a host of very valid arguments as to why it's might just be a horrifically bad idea (one of which is that it actually encourages and perpetuates hatred and animosity between people of different ethnic origins within a nation). So yeah, when people take offense at what is clearly a multiculturalism message, they aren't saying "we hate people who speak different languages, or have different skin colors, or come from different cultures". They're saying "multiculturalism is a bad idea, and we shouldn't sneak in images of acceptance of it without some debate on the subject".

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My grandparents spoke Italian (when they were alive).


Yup. And they learned English and/or made sure their children did. So today, you aren't stuck living in an immigrant enclave within your own country. The multicultural movement encourages the opposite. That's what people are complaining about.

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It's just a stupid thing to be concerned about, and it shows how America just doesn't have its priorities in order. This is a nation of cowards, so afraid of anything that is different. Let's oppress it, rather than learn.


The cowards are the people who call those who disagree with them "bigots" and "racists" rather than actually addressing the issue at hand. This is not about racial/ethnic/whatever hatred. It's about addressing different ways of handling immigration. And those who are saying that the ad was offensive, do so because they believe that intentionally creating and maintaining differences between people, while sold on the "one happy world" concept, almost invariably results in more hatred and more problems.

Would your life today be better or worse if your grandparents had refused to learn English or allow their children to learn English? Seriously. Think that entire process through. Where would they live? What job opportunities would they (and your parents, and by extension you) have? They'd have to isolate themselves in a neighborhood full of other Italian immigrants who spoke a language they understood. They'd have to rely on Italian versions of the news and other forms of media. They would effectively be cutting themselves off from the larger culture around them.

Is that really a good thing to do? Multiculturalism says "yes". And that's what the ad was promoting.


You know what would have been a perfect message of "coming together"? If they'd shown the exact same ad, with the same array of people from all different ethnic and cultural backgrounds all singing "America the Beautiful", in English. Because that would send a message of all of these people joining together to form a common culture. To share something in common. And to sing in one voice the virtues of the nation they call their own. Now that would have been a positive message. It would have been about how even though we all started out somewhere else, we've all come together to be "one nation".

By breaking the song into parts and having them sung in different languages, it sends the opposite message. It send a message of distance and separation. It says that we should celebrate what makes us different rather than what makes us the same. And that's why people took offense at it.
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#43 Feb 05 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
By breaking the song into parts and having them sung in different languages, it sends the opposite message.
That we accept you even if you don't speak English yet?

I mean it's not like my own grandparents and such didn't live in a ethnic neighborhood either. You can't just learn English at 30 and speak it like a native. You teach your kids to learn it and what not, but you'll never be able to fully integrate yourself, ever. The human mind just isn't that flexible. Everyone goes through a stage where there's one language at home and one language at school, we all did 100 years ago or whenever we came here. It's part of the blending process. I don't think you'll see people encouraging their kids not to learn English, that's pretty silly. The kids are dying to learn it. Besides, it's not like we didn't already grab and absorb all kinds of traditions from 100s of years of immigrants as well. It goes both ways as we blend everything together.

Go go country music...



Also, multicultural blending is cool. Smiley: cool
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#44 Feb 05 2014 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Great great grandparents from the boat only spoke German and Russian.
Great grandparents spoke English, German and Russian.
Grand parents spoke English, with a smattering of German and Russian.
Daddy only knew profanity in German and Russian.
I only know two curse words in German, and none in Russian.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 7:35pm by Catwho
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#45 Feb 05 2014 at 6:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's also the fact that speaking another language, culturally, is not incompatible with speaking English.

I have a coworker who is an American citizen, whose kids are all Americans, but they speak a lot of Arabic at home. For one, because her mother-in-law (who lives with them), doesn't speak English. But also because it's a part of their culture, and it's something worth preserving. She spent her early years in Egypt, and she emigrated here when she was still a little girl. But she reads and writes Arabic, and her parents speak better in Arabic. Arabic (and something else I can't remember) are a big part of her life as a Coptic Christian.

The idea that American culture is incompatible with other languages is crap. It's xenophobic and, frankly, racist. It specifically targets ethnic groups and charges them with being un-American if they don't sacrifice their other culture entirely. They are only allowed to be an American if they fit that WASP middle class cultural model.

And that's such, such crap.

Yeah, EVERYONE is going to have a much easier time living here if they speak English. That's because English is the dominant language, no duh. But there's no requirement that you must speak English to become a citizen, and there's ABSOLUTELY no acceptable reason to be so xenophobic that you accuse people of being un-American just for speaking a different language.

God, it's actually annoying me that I can't rate gbaji's post down multiple times. Take that crap back to the Asylum.
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#46 Feb 05 2014 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Great great grandparents from the boat only spoke German and Russian.
Great grandparents spoke English, German and Russian.
Grand parents spoke English, with a smattering of German and Russian.
Daddy only knew profanity in German and Russian.
I only know two curse words in German, and none in Russian.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 7:35pm by Catwho
Smiley: lol

Yeah something like that. I'm the first generation not to learn any German myself. The relatives made a family business for a reason, you have a couple of people who know English well, and the rest can speak whatever in the shop. I dunno, part of the transition process. My wife still has immigrant family members from her Chinese side, the Grandma doesn't speak more than a few words of English, people translate for her. In a couple of generations that'll likely all change.

I mean English happens, give it time, so it takes 50 or 100 years for a family to integrate, that's the way it's always been. In the meantime the city adds cinco de mayo and chinese new year celebrations to the list of excuses to party, things go both ways.
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#47 Feb 05 2014 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Take that crap back to the Asylum.
*Looks up and the forum*

Well, darn it all, this isn't the Asylum... Smiley: lol
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#48gbaji, Posted: Feb 05 2014 at 7:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yup. Blend. This commercial is about not blending. That's the point.
#49gbaji, Posted: Feb 05 2014 at 7:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm not doing that. I'm saying that it sends a huge mixed message to sing a song extolling the virtues of America whilst very deliberately excluding one of the key facets of American culture (common language). It's kinda like sending your wife a Valentine card with a picture of your wife and the words "I love all these things about you", but then you've cut out parts of pictures of other women and pasted them over parts of your wife. So you love her, but you show it by highlighting some other woman's *******, and some other woman's eyes, and yet another woman's legs, etc. So when your wife gets angry at you for doing this, saying she's just jealous of other women isn't really the correct response, is it?
#50 Feb 05 2014 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Yes. Great. No one's debating that. The point is that prior to perhaps the latter half of the 20th century, it was broadly accepted that immigrants should learn the language of the country they have immigrated to, and at the very least make sure their children learn it. That was how you became a part of the new culture/nation you were joining. It was part of the process of immigration. Today? The Left pushes this idea that it's not just ok for immigrants to isolate themselves into enclaves within their new country, but it's encouraged as a sort of "all the world in one border" approach.
[...]
Yup. And they learned English and/or made sure their children did. So today, you aren't stuck living in an immigrant enclave within your own country. The multicultural movement encourages the opposite. That's what people are complaining about.

Wow, the Left must suck at this stuff then. Because current immigrant populations are learning language faster than previous predominately European immigrant waves. The old saw used to be that you saw English proficiency by the third generation of an immigrant population. But the rate of English proficiency for second generation Hispanic populations today is 92%. For Asians, it's 96%. There's some variance in those groups (for instance, for Hmong it's 87%) but this boogey-man of immigrants forever living in enclaves speaking only their parent's native tongue is -- to put it bluntly -- bullsh*t.

Incidentally, I didn't see easy numbers for Arab Americans but I did see reference to Arab Americans in the Detroit & Deerborn areas (the largest enclaves of the sort) going to college within 1% of the general population and going to post-graduate education over 10% higher than the average so I think we're safe from a nation of Arab-only speaking people.

This shouldn't really surprise anyone. Unlike back in the olden days, today's youth from any ethnic background are bombarded with English-centric media and messages. Sure, there's a handful of Spanish language television and, if you speak something else, you might find one or two stations catering to your language in the expanded channel list. But teens still want to be able to talk about what happened on True Blood or whatever kids are watching these days. They still see shows about wealthy English speaking people working for English speaking corporations and know that the same opportunity doesn't exist for someone who only speaks Farsi. English saturation today is so much greater than it was in Irish or Chinese enclaves in the early 20th century.

So, yeah, it is xenophobia and jingoism driving these fear movements. Because the supposed "problem" doesn't exist. One thing that does happen today is a greater amount of bilingualism where Hispanic kids learn English but still retain their Spanish skills as opposed to previous generations shedding their old languages entirely. So the kid who learns English and can live well outside the Latino neighborhoods but can also still listen to the same radio, watch the same TV and read the same advertising as his parents or new immigrants. I think this is part of what upsets people so much. They don't really want "those kids need to learn English so they can get real American jobs", they want the kids to learn English and then sever connections to their old family because REAL Americans only speak English and the idea of someone who speaks both threatens them. Again, xenophobia and jingoism.

Edited, Feb 5th 2014 7:54pm by Jophiel
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#51gbaji, Posted: Feb 05 2014 at 8:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes.. Today. Because some of us have been fighting to ensure that English is the common language we all adopt against a growing movement to do otherwise. Surely you can see how calling us racists for doing so is going to be counter productive in the long run?
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