Is a sex-change a constitutional right?Follow

Weight is pretty objective. It can be trivially measured. We have long since determined what weight ranges healthy people should be in. We know there are negative health effects of being significantly underweight.

To contrast, changing one's body to match their gender typically comes with various health benefits.

Would you prefer i used the word "determine"?

I'm going to guess (or at least dare to hope) that most people don't approach prison from a philosophy that we should make it as terrible as we could possibly make it without it being cruel or unusual.

And, that said, I wouldn't be willing to say that enabling subsistence is all that's required for a punishment not to be cruel or unusual.

Just playing devils advocate here, but can't we say the same thing about sex (the physical state) and gender (the perceived state)? I mean, if someone is objectively/measurably skinny, but views themselves as fat, how is that really different from someone who is objectively/measurably a male, but view themselves as female. We can certainly say that we have long since determined what physically makes someone a male or a female, so it's not like this comparison is way off.



That's questionable IMO. At the very least, that's an incredibly subjective argument to make. I'd argue that for most people, adopting a gender view that matches their physical body will be the most healthy for them in the long run. And for that tiny percentage of people who can't do this, there really isn't sufficient empirical evidence to suggest that sex change actually helps them. And the current movement going on to identify and allow for gender identity mismatches at earlier and earlier ages is (again IMO) probably going to result in more screwed up people than otherwise.

But that's yet another aspect of the issue.

No, I would say a life that is condemned to only meet the minimum standards for subsistence is well, well past the mark of cruel and unusual. Sort of why we no longer throw people into dungeons.

[EDIT]

And my stance is going to be the same as it has been this entire time. If a psychologist rules that SRS is vital to someone's mental well being, I'm going to say they should be provided it. And I'm inclined to say it would be cruel and unusual not to.

If doctors rule that it is unnecessary for their well being, then perhaps not.

Edited, Aug 29th 2013 3:47pm by idiggory

Whatev's...

Um... That's exactly what it is (barring the whole circular use of the word 'sex' of course). When a person perceives themselves as male and their physiological traits (genitals) are male, then both their gender and sex are male. If one perceives themselves as female, but their physiological traits are male, then their gender is female and their sex is male. We can go around and around with the labels we apply, but the difference between sex and gender is that sex is physiological, while gender is psychological. What one physically is, versus what one thinks they are (or feels they are, or whatever snowflaky term you wish to use).



Yes. Did you just misread what I wrote? I just talked out this exact distinction between sex and gender and you insisted that's not what gender was.


The difference is between perception and reality. Period. A transgender perceives themselves to be something other than their physical sex indicates. It's why we even bother with making a distinction between gender and sex in the first place. And guess what? This is analogous to a skinny person who thinks they are fat. For whatever reason, the person perceives themselves to be different than their actual physical state.

You're saying gender isn't what someone thinks they are, or their brain is wired as? I thought that was the assertion.

Sorry, but I don't think I am. Gender has no meaning *unless* it's about how someone thinks or feels versus what their physical biology is. If that's not what gender is, then what is it?

True, it was just the first word that hopped to mind I suppose, my bad.

Which is why I brought cause, are they distinguished because they have a different source? Honestly I don't know. If we go off the review article linked earlier then science would label GID as a kind of irreversible birth defect. I don't know if that's the same with someone who thinks their skinny, but is actually obese.

The root cause being important, because that will ultimately influence treatment options.

Edited, Aug 29th 2013 2:54pm by someproteinguy

That one. Trans people are not generally under any delusions about their sex.

Fixed.

No, because transgender people simply have a gender that does not match that of most people of the same sex. We are not confused about what our sex is.

The second one.

Same thing. You evaluate this based on your perceptions which is based on your brain. You think you should have a female body. You don't. Your brain thinks it should. It's not more or less a delusion than any other issues with the brain. This causes dissonance. One way to fix it is to fix your brain. We don't really know how to do that though, so some people will learn to be at peace with the discord, some people will try and change their body to reduce the discord.


Edited, Aug 29th 2013 5:22pm by Xsarus