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Is a sex-change a constitutional right?Follow

#1 Aug 25 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/chelsea-manning

Do you believe the cost behind a sex-change is a Constitutional Right?


First let me state; I'm not against or hate transgendered people at all. In my point of view, MTF's are a straight man's dream, in that I mean it takes away one more male out of the pool and adds a female.

/snicker

Okay, jokes aside, I'm okay with people choosing whatever they want to do with themselves. Though I don't believe the taxpayer should be on the hook for those decisions.

So Screamagers, should Bradley Chelsea Manning's **** change be subsidized by tax payers?

Why or why not?

-NW
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#2 Aug 25 2013 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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No, along with breast enhancements. I'm having to "compete" for braces. I don't think a **** change should be granted. There's a fine line between necessity and personal desires. In some instances, I can see granting augmentations for self-esteem, but this is not one of them. In the "necessity" scenarios, there is something "wrong" that needs to be fixed. So, unless something is "wrong" with him, then I don't support it. With that being said, I support therapy if he thinks he need it.
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#3 Aug 25 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
So, unless something is "wrong" with him, then I don't support it. With that being said, I support therapy if he thinks he need it.
Given that she is a woman in a man's body I would say that there is definitely something wrong.
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#4 Aug 25 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
So, unless something is "wrong" with him, then I don't support it. With that being said, I support therapy if he thinks he need it.
Given that she is a woman in a man's body I would say that there is definitely something wrong.



I hate psychology. I really do.

Sometimes they come out with this really good thing and it is awesome, like stress treatment and diagnostics. Then sometimes they come out with something absolutely retarded and over-diagnosed like ADD/ADHD which seems more and more like myth rather than scientific fact.



Is there peer-reviewed consensus that transsexualism is a consequence of genetics or is it a consequence of environment?

Is GID (Gender Identity Disorder) a real thing like stress or is it a largely manufactured "illness" like ADD/ADHD?

-NW
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#5 Aug 25 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's not really worth debating. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money is a mere pittance in the pot. You've paid more for less via your tax dollar. Smiley: wink

Someone with a gender disorder that is expected to carry on as the wrong gender can be detrimental to themselves and others.
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#6 Aug 25 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Of course it's worth debating. If it was $5,000 in federal tax dollars going for building crosses on courthouses or gay-conversion therapies it would be a "mere pittance in the pot" and yet still worth debating.

In this case, treatment for it would necessitate a different prison than the one he is assigned to (or likely to be). He can seek all the **** conversion therapy he wants when he's out of Leavenworth. I'm sure Wikileaks will foot the bill for him.

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can be detrimental to themselves and others.

He's already been detrimental to the United States of America. Which is why he can wait 8-35 years to get his completely voluntary, non-life saving treatments. Boy, it's almost as though there's consequences for espionage, huh?
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#7 Aug 25 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Boy, it's almost as though there's consequences for espionage, huh?
You mean like going to prison for 8-35 years? Because I think that's the punishment he got from the court, no need to tack on extra punishment.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
You mean like going to prison for 8-35 years? Because I think that's the punishment he got from the court, no need to tack on extra punishment.

No "extra" to it. It's prison, not a care clinic for voluntary treatments.
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#9 Aug 25 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
You mean like going to prison for 8-35 years? Because I think that's the punishment he got from the court, no need to tack on extra punishment.

No "extra" to it. It's prison, not a care clinic for voluntary treatments.



Exactly my feelings on it.


Will Bradley Manning die if he doesn't become a woman? No? Then he can wait till he gets out of prison and pay for his own elective surgeries and hormones. At that point I don't give a rat's **** what he does to himself.

It isn't the job of tax payers to make Bradley Manning feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Elinda wrote:
I think it's not really worth debating. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money is a mere pittance in the pot. You've paid more for less via your tax dollar. Smiley: wink

Someone with a gender disorder that is expected to carry on as the wrong gender can be detrimental to themselves and others.


So where's it stop then hmmm? Should we give all prisoners who feel like changing their **** or women with small tits a boob job on the tax payer dime? How about nose jobs? Teeth bleaching?

-NW

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 8:32am by NaughtyWord
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#10 Aug 25 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I think it's not really worth debating. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money is a mere pittance in the pot. You've paid more for less via your tax dollar. Smiley: wink

Someone with a gender disorder that is expected to carry on as the wrong gender can be detrimental to themselves and others.
Your tax dollars should pay for everyone else as well.
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#11 Aug 25 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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When it comes down to it, I don't feel it should be on the taxpayer to pay for it. That said, I think that if she has the means to pay for the treatment herself, whether via insurance or otherwise, I think she should be allowed to undergo treatment while incarcerated.
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#12 Aug 25 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless wrote:
When it comes down to it, I don't feel it should be on the taxpayer to pay for it. That said, I think that if she has the means to pay for the treatment herself, whether via insurance or otherwise, I think she should be allowed to undergo treatment while incarcerated.


There's problems with that as well. It isn't as simple as *poof* you're female.

At what point--if at all--would we transfer him to a female prison?

I did a quick preliminary Google search, several sites devoted to transgender folks tells me that the MtF process is a long one. Transfer him after he gets his breasts? How about a vagina?

Who is to determine who is going to pay for aftercare? Complications?

Then it begs the question, are we putting people in prison to cater to their every little desire? Kinda defeats the point of prison if you ask me.

-NW

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 8:48am by NaughtyWord
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#13 Aug 25 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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He can have whatever voluntary treatments he can receive while being visited by a doctor during normal visiting hours and in the normal visiting location. Deciding he's a girl shouldn't allow him special visiting privileges.
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#14 Aug 25 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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NaughtyWord wrote:
Will Bradley Manning die if he doesn't become a woman?
Suicide is unfortunately far from unlikely, so maybe.

And I don't think it should be paid for through taxes, either she can pay for it himself or through her insurance. I think it's no more than reasonable to transfer her to a prison for women when the transition starts showing though.
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#15 Aug 25 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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1) Does it really matter what prison Manning is in, if he->she continues to be in solitary confinement the whole time?

2) Crowd-source it. Smiley: nod
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someproteinguy wrote:
1) Does it really matter what prison Manning is in

If not, then let's leave him where he's supposed to be: Leavenworth. The high security military prison for his military crimes where he was sentenced under the military justice system.
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#17 Aug 25 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
When it comes down to it, I don't feel it should be on the taxpayer to pay for it. That said, I think that if she has the means to pay for the treatment herself, whether via insurance or otherwise, I think she should be allowed to undergo treatment while incarcerated.

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#18 Aug 25 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
1) Does it really matter what prison Manning is in, if he->she continues to be in solitary confinement the whole time?

2) Crowd-source it. Smiley: nod


Well, most psychological organizations have ruled solitary confinement a form of torture if it lasts for a few weeks, so I wouldn't be surprised if the combined stresses caused by it and the gender identity issues were more than enough to make Manning a high risk for suicide. That's not an uncommon side effect of solitary to begin with (and is, laughably, one of our first responses for dealing with suicidal inmates...)

But it's a common enough practice. I believe precedent typically says that inmates have to pose a threat to others for any sort of prolonged solitary to be acceptable, though. I wouldn't imagine Manning was actually sentenced to solitary.

The other reality is that, due to the press she's getting, if they attempted to keep her in solitary for an extended period of time, it shouldn't be too hard to garner attention for that fact and successfully sue for wrongful treatment.
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#19 Aug 25 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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When it comes down to it, I don't feel it should be on the taxpayer to pay for it. That said, I think that if she has the means to pay for the treatment herself, whether via insurance or otherwise, I think she should be allowed to undergo treatment while incarcerated.

Should this go for all prisoners? If I want to pay for a chiropractor to come visit me in prison, should I be allowed to? Get a nose job? Therapeutic massage?
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#20 Aug 25 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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What was their reasoning for the solitary confinement over the last few years anyway? I suppose I just assumed whatever that was would continue to justify solitary in the future.
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#21 Aug 25 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
When it comes down to it, I don't feel it should be on the taxpayer to pay for it. That said, I think that if she has the means to pay for the treatment herself, whether via insurance or otherwise, I think she should be allowed to undergo treatment while incarcerated.

Should this go for all prisoners? If I want to pay for a chiropractor to come visit me in prison, should I be allowed to? Get a nose job? Therapeutic massage?

Jophiel wrote:
He can have whatever voluntary treatments he can receive while being visited by a doctor during normal visiting hours and in the normal visiting location. Deciding he's a girl shouldn't allow him special visiting privileges.
I suppose hormone therapy would fall under your stipulations, no? Would you be OK with that but not the surgery? I'm genuinely curious.
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#22 Aug 25 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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If someone has a medical issue that demands a chiropractor, then yes.

I don't believe prison as a punishment works. And I view our current system as a huge burden on the health of our society.

I believe in rehabilitation, and I believe that central to that idea is that inmates need to leave, mentally and physically, in a better situation than they were before if at all possible. I think that would have a direct correlation on the quality of our society, on the rates of repeat offenses, etc.

If a **** reassignment surgery is vital to Manning's mental health, I would consider it natural to make that option available. I also fall into the camp that believes that particular surgery should be covered under socialized healthcare plans as well, so I imagine there's many levels of differing opinion here.

I don't know. I fail to see why we wouldn't let inmates see chiropractors, if they have issues that require chiropractors to solve. I doubt they'll be as productive a member of society if all the cartilage between their vertebrae erodes before they're finally released. I also find it difficult to understand why anyone would imagine prison was effective at much of anything productive if therapy wasn't available.
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#23 Aug 25 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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What was their reasoning for the solitary confinement over the last few years anyway? I suppose I just assumed whatever that was would continue to justify solitary in the future.


Doubtful, since it was ruled that their solitary confinement of Manning constituted torture and reduced his sentence accordingly. Granted, the amount they thought he deserved to be compensated was a joke, but declaring it torture would theoretically give him too much power to sue if they pulled that again.
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#24 Aug 25 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I also fall into the camp that believes that particular surgery should be covered under socialized healthcare plans as well, so I imagine there's many levels of differing opinion here.
If and when that happens, I would argue for Manning to have access to it. As it currently isn't, I don't think she should have special privileges because she's incarcerated.
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#25 Aug 25 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Huh managed to miss that; well that makes things a lot more interesting. Sounds like whether or not you're paying for the hormones/surgery you're spending extra dealing with the problems created. Someone who's been in solitary for years, with GID, convicted of a non-violet offense that put others' lives in danger? Then we stick them in with the general military prison population? A recipe for disaster from this uninformed person's point of view.

S/he's @#%^ed.

Edit: Sorry, but that just sounds like an incredibly stupid idea. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 11:22am by someproteinguy
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#26 Aug 25 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's more complicated than that, given we have an insurance-based system. Manning cannot be employed in prison, and therefore cannot get insurance that way. She can't afford to purchase a plan that covers sexual reassignment surgery by herself on prison wages.

Given that the state is the one restricting them from the steps that would allow access to the care, I don't think it's as simple an argument as just breaking things down into privileges inside vs. out.

That said, if the compromise was hormone therapy and a "let's see," I'm more or less okay with it.

Most trans persons choose not to go forward with sexual reassignment surgery, for a myriad of reasons (some don't fall at the extreme end of the binary, some would rather have working sexual organs, some would rather not choose the cons imposed by our current medical limitations, some just don't want to face the stress of major surgery, etc.). It's not like this is a decision that needs to be made today. Manning might never even seek it.
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#27 Aug 25 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
I suppose hormone therapy would fall under your stipulations, no? Would you be OK with that but not the surgery? I'm genuinely curious.

Provided the prison allows anyone to bring medications into the prison and administer them in the visiting room (or through that glass with the phones, no idea what its looks like in Leavenworth) then sure. In other words, no special considerations for him one way or the other.
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
If someone has a medical issue that demands a chiropractor, then yes.

He doesn't have a medical issue that demands hormone therapy, he wants hormone therapy. His physical health won't suffer without it.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:32pm by Jophiel
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#28 Aug 25 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It's not like this is a decision that needs to be made today. Manning might never even seek it.

Washington Post wrote:
Army Pfc. Bradley Manning said Thursday that he will live as a woman and seek hormone replacement therapy while incarcerated, confronting the military prison system with a demand that has prompted state and federal institutions to reluctantly offer similar treatment to inmates.

How convenient that he chose NOW to make these big decisions, huh? Smiley: rolleyes
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#29 Aug 25 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pretty sure nobody makes that decision lightly.
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#30 Aug 25 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure he put all sorts of thought into demanding it from the military prison system, yes.

Of course, I'm sure he didn't take committing espionage against the United States lightly either. This guy is just full of wonderful benefits for this nation that he doesn't take lightly.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:40pm by Jophiel
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#31 Aug 25 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a pretty archaic view of medicine at this point to be separating physical and mental health into separate categories, and not one that any medical association in the US would endorse.

If it would cause him severe mental stress to not have access to a mental health treatment, then he should not have it. And his overall health, physical and mental, will suffer immensely if he doesn't.

At the end of the day, it's a mental health professional who has the capability to predict what that level of stress would be. I'll defer to their judgement. But I find if hard to see how much further down we could set the bar, if we'd restrict care in prison to life-threatening, physical issues.

[EDIT]

Manning was exhibiting more than a few substantial warning signs that he was cracking under the stress long before he ever leaked information. I'm far more critical of the government's failing here than I am his.

The other side of this is that, due to armed forces regulations, Manning would have been dishonorably discharged (at least, to my understanding), if he made the decision to transition or was diagnosed with GID. That's a LOT of stress coming from all directions. It shouldn't be surprising he cracked, particularly if the actual info he leaked was causing plenty of that, and that he actually saw himself as being morally compromised by not divulging it.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 2:48pm by idiggory
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#32 Aug 25 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm sure he put all sorts of thought into demanding it from the military prison system, yes.

Of course, I'm sure he didn't take committing espionage against the United States lightly either. This guy is just full of wonderful benefits for this nation that he doesn't take lightly.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:40pm by Jophiel
The crime Manning was convicted of holds little bearing on the validity of a decision to request hormone therapy be provided.
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The crime Manning was convicted of is 100% why we're having this conversation since he wants the US government to pay for his hormone therapy. To make it clear: He screwed over the US and now, while in prison, he thinks he deserves to have the US pay for his therapy. As opposed to him paying for it out of pocket on the outside like any other person.

So, yeah, it holds significant bearing.
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It's a pretty archaic view of medicine at this point to be separating physical and mental health into separate categories, and not one that any medical association in the US would endorse.

If it would cause him severe mental stress to not have access to a mental health treatment, then he should not have it.

Give the kid some Xanax.
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I'm far more critical of the government's failing here than I am his.

I'm not. He's the one who committed the espionage. Oh, poor baby for wanting to be a girl; that certainly meant he needed to leak classified national security secrets to the world. Isn't that in the ole Super Modern Mental Health Guidebook as the prime symptom?

He committed a crime. A serious one. That means he pays consequences, one of which should be NOT receiving completely voluntary treatments that have zero bearing on his physical health duinr his incarceration. If he wants to talk to a shrink or whatever, fine since I'm assuming that's a treatment available for most prisoners.

Quote:
Manning would have been dishonorably discharged (at least, to my understanding), if he made the decision to transition or was diagnosed with GID

Right. And so how did this course of action work out for him?

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 2:06pm by Jophiel
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#35 Aug 25 2013 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I get all hot and bothered watching Joph play a conservative.


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#36 Aug 25 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't realize that handwaving away espionage so precious little snowflakes can get their voluntary hormone meds was a liberal position, but sure.
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#37 Aug 25 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm of the position that an inmate's crime should have no bearing on their level of provided healthcare, mental or physical. If Manning were in prison on a mandatory minimum sentence for drug possession, or for more heinous crimes like rape, murder, or child molestation, the same level of healthcare should be provided. Yes, this also applies to charges of espionage. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about the crime.
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The other side of this is that, due to armed forces regulations, Manning would have been dishonorably discharged (at least, to my understanding), if he made the decision to transition or was diagnosed with GID.
He wouldn't be discharged at all, he'd be barred from reenlistment, and would have still gotten either an honorable discharge or a medical discharge, neither of which means much of anything when looking for new employment.
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#39 Aug 25 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
so precious little snowflakes can get their voluntary hormone meds
Nice.
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#40 Aug 25 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
I'm of the position that an inmate's crime should have no bearing on their level of provided healthcare, mental or physical. If Manning were in prison on a mandatory minimum sentence for drug possession, or for more heinous crimes like rape, murder, or child molestation, the same level of healthcare should be provided. Yes, this also applies to charges of espionage. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about the crime.


That's my stance on this as well. If we were talking about James Holmes, I'd still set the same standard for medical treatment. Or if we were talking about PoWs, Guantanamo, etc.

Side note: I can't find any part of me that seriously wants to condemn manning for his actions. I feel like the situation he was placed in is one where it would conceivably have been considered treason either way, one with regards to the government, one with regards to the people the constitute the nation. The only crime I would have been willing to accept him as legitimately guilty is the charge he was cleared of.

But I don't think this thread needs to be about whether or not Manning is guilty. That ship has sailed. /shrug.

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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The other side of this is that, due to armed forces regulations, Manning would have been dishonorably discharged (at least, to my understanding), if he made the decision to transition or was diagnosed with GID.
He wouldn't be discharged at all, he'd be barred from reenlistment, and would have still gotten either an honorable discharge or a medical discharge, neither of which means much of anything when looking for new employment.


That's good to know. Definitely the better course of events. I'm not entirely sure what about GID makes it a disqualifying medical condition, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote:
If he wants to talk to a shrink or whatever, fine since I'm assuming that's a treatment available for most prisoners.


I doubt any of us are holding the position that Manning should get special treatment. I'm saying that I think he should get the hormone therapy treatment, yeah. I take it as a given that this means such treatment should be available in general. And if access to therapists isn't available now, it really, really should be.

But if we're talking about GID, specifically, it's particularly important. Considering treatment for GID as cosmetic is... extremely odd, to me. The statistics for suicide among people with GID is horrifying. Up to 3/4 of the population is suicidal, with 30-50% of them attempting suicide in their lifetime (really quick google searches - I only know the teen rates off the top of my head). Sure, these stresses are more linked to societal influence than the state itself. But I doubt that would simply stop being a factor in prison.
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#41 Aug 25 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what about GID makes it a disqualifying medical condition, but that's neither here nor there.
Well, there's pretty good evidence now that it leads to espionage and mental instability.
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#42 Aug 25 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what about GID makes it a disqualifying medical condition, but that's neither here nor there.
Well, there's pretty good evidence now that it leads to espionage and mental instability.

I really hope a sample size of 1 isn't sufficient evidence for the armed forces.

And we went back in for a second Iraq war, so I'm going to say it generally isn't. Smiley: lol
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#43 Aug 25 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
so precious little snowflakes can get their voluntary hormone meds
Nice.

Thanks. And accurate.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#44 Aug 25 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I doubt any of us are holding the position that Manning should get special treatment. I'm saying that I think he should get the hormone therapy treatment, yeah.

Saying he should be given treatments not already authorized by the military prison system is 100% the definition of saying he should be getting special treatment.
Spoonless wrote:
I'm of the position that an inmate's crime should have no bearing on their level of provided healthcare, mental or physical. If Manning were in prison on a mandatory minimum sentence for drug possession, or for more heinous crimes like rape, murder, or child molestation, the same level of healthcare should be provided. Yes, this also applies to charges of espionage. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about the crime.

If he was in prison for child molestation, I'd be saying that first he **** children and now he wants the government to pay for his hormone therapy. You're correct in part for the crime not being especially relevant.

However, he picked espionage as his crime of choice while part of the armed forces which put him in a military prison which disqualifies him from getting the treatment he suddenly decided he really, really needs (upon, you know, having been sentenced). Good thing he didn't make that choice lightly.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 4:15pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#45 Aug 25 2013 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Saying he should be given treatments not already authorized by the military prison system is 100% the definition of saying he should be getting special treatment.


Did you morph into gbaji or something, because in what world does that logic work? Saying that he should be given treatments means that those treatments should be available for prisoners. If they are already, cool. If they aren't, they should be.

It doesn't mean "He should get treatment regardless of whether or not other prisoners can get treatment."
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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#46 Aug 25 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Saying that he should be given treatments means that those treatments should be available for prisoners.

They're not. You're asking for the rules to be changed using Manning as the catalyst. That's special treatment. Calling me Gbaji won't make that any less true.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#47 Aug 25 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Federal prisons allow for the treatment of GID even when diagnosed after a prisoner is incarcerated, and I think that should be extended to military prison (and state prisons, for that matter).
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Banh
#48 Aug 25 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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That's fair. I think federal prisons shouldn't offer it so there ya go. Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#49 Aug 25 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Are you opposed to all mental health treatment in prisons, or are you just opposed to the idea of GID as a legitimate mental health issue?
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Banh
#50 Aug 25 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Saying that he should be given treatments means that those treatments should be available for prisoners.

They're not. You're asking for the rules to be changed using Manning as the catalyst. That's special treatment. Calling me Gbaji won't make that any less true.


Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

So women got special treatment when they received the right to vote. And the mentally disabled got special treatment when we founded mental care facilities, instead of just tossing them in prison. And the gays are getting special treatment by asking for marriage. And Rosa Parks got special treatment when Blacks had more of their civil rights recognized.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#51 Aug 25 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
So, unless something is "wrong" with him, then I don't support it. With that being said, I support therapy if he thinks he need it.
Given that she is a woman in a man's body I would say that there is definitely something wrong.


And how do you know that? Do you just take everyone's word for it? He didn't seem to have a problem before.

If 35 year old gets caught sleeping with a 16 year old, can he claim that he's just a teenager trapped in a man's body? That was the argument made for Michael Jackson, that he was reliving his childhood because he never had one.

At what point do you start segregating physical traits from psychological traits?

Furthermore, let me rephrase my sentiment. Unless not having the procedure yields in negative physical affects, then no. If he wants mental treatment, then by all means, let him have it.

His Excellency Aethien wrote:
NaughtyWord wrote:
Will Bradley Manning die if he doesn't become a woman?
Suicide is unfortunately far from unlikely, so maybe.


I don't see the problem.

Aethien wrote:
I think it's no more than reasonable to transfer her to a prison for women when the transition starts showing though.


You don't see any possible correlation with his prison sentence, his request and what you just said?
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
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