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Horrible accident at work.Follow

#1 Oct 11 2012 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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Today I think a truck driver (3rd party) died at the factory I work at.

He arrived early in the morning, and waited for a truck to leave the bay. He walked into the shop, told the shipping clerk he was ready to pull in once the other truck left. A little while later the other truck pulls out, and this trucker backs in. About 10-15 minutes after that two of the employees at our shop go outside and notice the trucker lying on the ground, bleeding, and in a puddle of blood. Some time in those 10-15 minutes he somehow fell and hit his head very badly. Blood was coming from an open wound on his head, and from his mouth, nose, and ears.

9-1-1 was dialed, and the first people there used clean rags to try and halt the bleeding. A handful of people are certified in CPR and one of them goes out to do basic stuff. First response was a police officer, followed by the fire department. Basic help is provided, but times starts passing and there is no sign of an ambulance arriving. The police officer and the fire department don't know where they are.

A few years back the local hospital farmed out its EMS services to a private company. This company happened to be located less than a mile from the factory, and the hospital about a couple miles the other direction. The ambulance service from this EMS company never showed up. They ended up getting one from the next county over, about 40 minutes. They got the guy to the hospital, and he was air lifted to a larger one in State, very serious injuries. The local hospital couldn't tell us anything beyond the air lifted status (assumed serious injuries because that's the only reason it's ever done). Contacting the company the trucker worked for, their response was "his condition does not look good".

The police and fire department seemed pretty in the dark as to what the private EMS service was doing, and one of the higher ups for (my) company sent a report to the local paper about the seeming lack of response from the EMS company, and about his feelings about the hospital putting these services onto another company, and about how the hospital is spending a large sum of money on a building expansion...

I'm curious about stuff like Liability when it comes to response times for EMS services? Given what I saw today I'm kind of hoping I never get seriously injured like that. The last time something happened was a stroke from an older employee, but it was when the hospital was providing the services, and it was about 10 minutes and the hospital's EMS was there.

Initial feelings seem to be that the reason for the lack of response was because the hospital switched to this other company, but is it fair to say that the hospital farming out its services had a large contribution to the lack of response?
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#2 Oct 11 2012 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's too early to lay blame anywhere. While something has obviously gone wrong there's really no telling where the problem lies.
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#3 Oct 11 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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40 minutes? Yikes.

I'm surprised the police officer didn't put him in the police car and speed off to the nearest hospital when it was clear the ambulance wasn't going to show up. Sure, it's probably not healthy to put a man on the backseat of a car if his skull is leaking blood, but it can't be worse than the skull leaking blood for 40 minutes...
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#4 Oct 11 2012 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure if he would've been allowed to or could have gotten in trouble for doing so. Not to mention that they probably didn't know it'd take 40 minutes for the ambulance to arrive.

On a sidenote, is there not a law that says that no matter which town/village/city you are an ambulance has to be able to reach it in X time? I know there's something like that for the Netherlands (for the fire dept. as well) but this is of course a miniscule country.

Edited, Oct 12th 2012 1:51am by Aethien
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#5 Oct 11 2012 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I think it's too early to lay blame anywhere. While something has obviously gone wrong there's really no telling where the problem lies.


Yeah. If the ambulance company (or their driver) just dropped the ball, there's certainly the potential of a pretty huge lawsuit (and possible revocation of license) against them. But it could have been something else. A dispatcher could have screwed up. The hospital could have screwed up. Any of a number of things could have happened. Generally speaking, ambulance services are pretty decent no matter who runs them. Something like this is the exception and not the rule.
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#6 Oct 11 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Similar thing happened with my friend's son, who was 3 years old. He had a head injury and the ambulance took the scenic route to the hospital, which was not prepared to handle his injury. He was then air lifted to another hospital, where he died. My friend sued them for millions, though not without tremendous difficulty. Now he and his family live in an enormous house on the far side of town. Any time the subject is brought up, which always seems kind of awkward, he always says he'd take it all back for his son to have lived.
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#7 Oct 12 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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It could also be that all their ambulances were dispatched already - most third party EMSes only have 3-4 vehicles on hand, and if there are multiple emergencies at once they may all be deployed. However, the dispatcher should have been notified if that was the case.

I believe that most counties are required to have an EMS service, even if they don't have a hospital. Smaller localities probably have it tied to the fire department, or have one central EMS service for the entire county (which could be a hundred square miles in some places.)
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#8 Oct 12 2012 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to throw this back at the twits that like to use the one off nightmare situations in Canada as to reasons why Canada's universal healthcare isn't better than the US system.
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#9 Oct 12 2012 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
I'd like to throw this back at the twits that like to use the one off nightmare situations in Canada as to reasons why Canada's universal healthcare isn't better than the US system.


Yep.

I've had to call quite a few ambulances, never waited more than a few minutes. I think 10 minutes would be a long wait up here, that's location dependent of course, out in the boonies it can take a bit longer but they are always about as fast as police. 5-6 minutes in most cases that I've been involved in. Everyone gets out of their way and they just fly down the middle of the road so traffic isn't much of an issue. I'm sure someone somewhere had to wait 3 days while gang green set in due to our socialist devil medicine though.
#10 Oct 12 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Was going to ask if paramedics were with the fire dept. response, as that's pretty standard here at least; have at least one certified one with each engine. Though I suppose if you've lost tons of blood it probably wouldn't matter. Smiley: frown

Anyhoo, working at a hospital and just across the street from the emergency room. If it took 40 minutes to get care here then chances are things are mucked up pretty bad.

Edited, Oct 12th 2012 1:09pm by someproteinguy
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#11 Oct 12 2012 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
I'd like to throw this back at the twits that like to use the one off nightmare situations in Canada as to reasons why Canada's universal healthcare isn't better than the US system.


To be fair, this sort of thing happens in Canada as well. It took 60 minutes and 2 911 calls to get an ambulance when my uncle went unconscious at a family bbq.
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#12 Oct 12 2012 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Iamadam wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I'd like to throw this back at the twits that like to use the one off nightmare situations in Canada as to reasons why Canada's universal healthcare isn't better than the US system.


To be fair, this sort of thing happens in Canada as well. It took 60 minutes and 2 911 calls to get an ambulance when my uncle went unconscious at a family bbq.
I don't disagree, the point though is it's not the norm, despite what some would like others to beleive.
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#13 Oct 12 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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Just an update;

The man didn't make it. I got into work and the word going around was he was alive but in ICU. Then near noon, we got official word. He was alive, but only by machines. They kept him alive long enough for his family to be flown in (lived a state or two away), at which time they pulled the plug.

Turns out he was on blood thinners for heart issues. Severe head trauma plus blood thinners is not a pretty thing.

While I never talked to the man, and didn't know him at all, still a somewhat sad thing. And a bad way to leave the world.
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#14 Oct 12 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Iamadam wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I'd like to throw this back at the twits that like to use the one off nightmare situations in Canada as to reasons why Canada's universal healthcare isn't better than the US system.


To be fair, this sort of thing happens in Canada as well. It took 60 minutes and 2 911 calls to get an ambulance when my uncle went unconscious at a family bbq.
I don't disagree, the point though is it's not the norm, despite what some would like others to beleive.


Exactly. I've never had an ambulance take more than 10 minutes tops when I've had to call one. Sometimes something might happen to cause them to be late somewhere, but it's definitely far from being a common occurrence.
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#15 Oct 14 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
On a sidenote, is there not a law that says that no matter which town/village/city you are an ambulance has to be able to reach it in X time? I know there's something like that for the Netherlands (for the fire dept. as well) but this is of course a miniscule country.


No law per se here, but the goal that they strive towards is 8 minutes average with 90% under 10 minutes. If you live out in the whatever and the nearest anything is 20 minutes away, obviously the ambulance can't get there in less than 10 minutes, which is why it's not a law. For the faraway things we have a helicopter, though (yes, one, we're not a big country Smiley: lol).
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#16 Oct 18 2012 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Your fire department doesn't have it's own ambulances? Assuming wherever you live doesn't have a combined dispatch center for 911/police/firefighters/ems then most likely either a 911 dispatcher ****** up or the private EMS company ****** up via system or personnel. I doubt the system lost the call, and I doubt that the private company's infrastructure is disorganized, so a specific person or two are most likely to blame. And they'll most likely be fired and lose their license.
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#17 Oct 18 2012 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
Your fire department doesn't have it's own ambulances?
I don't think ours does either. I'd imagine that it's fairly common when there are private companies that will do the work.
#18 Oct 18 2012 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Our ambulances are owned and operated by both private companies and the government, but the vehicles are located at hospitals and fire stations around the country. When you call 911, the person taking your call will send out what's needed from the nearest hubs. There's no forwarding of call or whatever, the person at the other end of the 911 call will be in direct contact with the vehicles sent out to assist.

A new thing they launched recently is that a nurse is on standby to assist in 911 calls if needed. She can step in and help the caller check vitals and do CPR, giving the ambulance crew more information and time while they're getting there.

Edited, Oct 18th 2012 4:49pm by Mazra
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#19 Oct 24 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I've never had to use an ambulance in the city of Orlando, but I can imagine that the response time is pretty **** quick, and likely not outsourced. I know for a fact that our fire department has a fleet of them, as I live right across the street and hear them every freaking time they leave the station.
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#20 Oct 27 2012 at 3:30 AM Rating: Good
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I was shocked when I saw American drivers not automatically pulling over to the side of the street and stopping when they heard sirens, so that the emergency vehicle (Ambulance/police or fire) could belt straight up the middle of the road or on the "wrong" side of the road if they had to. Even at traffic intersections here, cars with the green light will pull over and stop if they hear sirens, so the emergency vehicle can run the red light if it's against them. It's an emergency, very often a life or death situation. How can people feel alright in holding up an emergency vehicle by the tiniest amount?

And commiserations for this happening at your workplace Tirrith. Even an accidental or natural death can be very sobering. And I think it feels horrible when a mess-up, or fundamental systemic flaw, is suspected of worsening a crisis.

Edited, Oct 27th 2012 5:35am by Aripyanfar
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#21 Oct 27 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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I was shocked when I saw American drivers not automatically pulling over to the side of the street and stopping when they heard sirens, so that the emergency vehicle (Ambulance/police or fire) could belt straight up the middle of the road or on the "wrong" side of the road if they had to. Even at traffic intersections here, cars with the green light will pull over and stop if they hear sirens, so the emergency vehicle can run the red light if it's against them. It's an emergency, very often a life or death situation. How can people feel alright in holding up an emergency vehicle by the tiniest amount?Edited, Oct 27th 2012 5:35am by Aripyanfar
By law, people are supposed to pull over when they hear sirens. Not everybody does, and it infuriates me to no end when somebody doesn't, but fortunately the majority of people (probably 70%) here at least do pull over.
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#22 Oct 27 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
I was shocked when I saw American drivers not automatically pulling over to the side of the street and stopping when they heard sirens, so that the emergency vehicle (Ambulance/police or fire) could belt straight up the middle of the road or on the "wrong" side of the road if they had to. Even at traffic intersections here, cars with the green light will pull over and stop if they hear sirens, so the emergency vehicle can run the red light if it's against them. It's an emergency, very often a life or death situation. How can people feel alright in holding up an emergency vehicle by the tiniest amount?Edited, Oct 27th 2012 5:35am by Aripyanfar
By law, people are supposed to pull over when they hear sirens. Not everybody does, and it infuriates me to no end when somebody doesn't, but fortunately the majority of people (probably 70%) here at least do pull over.
I'm pretty sure that here everyone moves aside as soon as they hear the siren, partially because if you don't move aside you're going to be rear ended by the cops/firemen/an ambulance and you really don't want that.
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#23 Oct 27 2012 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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People here are pretty **** good about it, too. Traffic is rarely an issue though so I think most people are pretty patient.
#24 Oct 27 2012 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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State law in NJ to pull over. There are times when you just have no clue what to do, particularly because of how much of our driving is done on highways, but still.

I'd love to, just once, see one of the ******** who ignores this get pulled over. Gets me even angrier than when you cut me off.
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#25 Oct 28 2012 at 3:37 AM Rating: Good
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On a highway here they take the emergency lane I think, the cops/firemen/ambulance that is, and getting caught driving there for any reason that is not an actual emergency would already cost you a couple hundred euros so not many people take the risk.
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#26 Oct 28 2012 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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You crazy socialists.
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#27 Oct 28 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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People here typically pull over at a reasonable distance, though they also tend to try to pull back onto the road directly behind the emergency vehicle to pass everyone who is still pulled over.
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#28 Oct 28 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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I've never seen people not pull over unless there was a reason to it. Usually it's because people are afraid they'll bang into another car, the curb or whatever in the process, which is a fairly reasonable worry. If you bash into someone or something while avoiding an emergency vehicle, it falls on your own insurance. The government is not going to pay you for destroying your car.

Also, while getting out of the way of emergency vehicles is a thing, but you're not allowed to break the laws in the process, meaning you can't just drive a red light and blame it on the ambulance. Sometimes there's nowhere to go and the ambulance will have to wait. Sucks, but it's better than someone panicking and driving a red light, getting mauled by a truck or whatever in the process. There's no point in saving one person in the ambulance if it costs the life of the person in the car in front.

I once found myself on a narrow street in dense traffic when I heard and saw sirens coming from behind me. Panicking slightly, because there was nowhere to go, I decided to drive up over the curb and onto the bike lane (most city streets here have a bike lane which separates the sidewalk from the road) so the ambulance could pass. It wasn't until afterwards I realized that if I'd blown a tire crossing the curb or hit a pedestrian/cyclist, I would have been 100% responsible for it. I've not found myself in a similar situation since, but if I did, I'd just sit there. Sucks, but what can you do?
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#29 Oct 28 2012 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
People here typically pull over at a reasonable distance, though they also tend to try to pull back onto the road directly behind the emergency vehicle to pass everyone who is still pulled over.


And THAT ****** me off almost as much.

[EDIT]

Because I live at the shore, our highways are quite often at a complete standstill at various times during the Summer months. The worst is when people think that, because they aren't in the ambulance's lane, they shouldn't pull to the side. End result is that the people IN the lane have nowhere to go, so the ambulance gets trapped until the cars push everyone else out of the way. It's awful.

And then you have the ******** who try to ride their tail to bypass the traffic.

Edited, Oct 28th 2012 4:59pm by idiggory
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