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America doesn't know how to InternetFollow

#1 May 06 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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After an hour or so of desperately searching for internet service that provides fiber optic cable internet, I found this article.

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The average U.S. household has to pay an exorbitant amount of money for an Internet connection that the rest of the industrial world would find mediocre. According to a recent report by the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, broadband Internet service in the U.S. is not just slower and more expensive than it is in tech-savvy nations such as South Korea and Japan; the U.S. has fallen behind infrastructure-challenged countries such as Portugal and Italy as well.

...

It was not always like this. A decade ago the U.S. ranked at or near the top of most studies of broadband price and performance. But that was before the FCC made a terrible mistake. In 2002 it reclassified broadband Internet service as an “information service” rather than a “telecommunications service.” In theory, this step implied that broadband was equivalent to a content provider (such as AOL or Yahoo!) and was not a means to communicate, such as a telephone line. In practice, it has stifled competition.

...

A separate debate—over net neutrality, the principle that Internet providers must treat all data equally regardless of their origin or content—has put the broadband crisis back in the spotlight. Earlier this year a federal appeals court struck down the FCC’s plan to enforce net neutrality, saying that because the FCC classified the Internet as an information service, it does not have any more authority to ensure that Internet providers treat all content equally than it does to ensure that CNN treats all political arguments equally. In response, the FCC announced its intention to reclassify broadband Internet as a telecommunications service. The move would give the FCC power to enforce net neutrality as well as open broadband lines up to third-party competition, enabling free markets to deliver better service for less money.

Yet, puzzlingly, the FCC wants to take only a half-step. Genachowski has said that although he regards the Internet as a telecommunications service, he does not want to bring in third-party competition. This move may have been intended to avoid criticism from policy makers, both Republican and Democrat, who have aligned themselves with large Internet providers such as AT&T and Comcast that stand to suffer when their local monopolies are broken. It is frustrating, however, to see Genachowski acknowledge that the U.S. has fallen behind so many other countries in its communications infrastructure and then rule out the most effective way to reverse the decline.



This is an article from two years ago. Apparently nothing has changed since then, when the fastest internet any ISP around here can offer is 40Mbps downloads and 8Mbps uploads...
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#2 May 06 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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I get 100mb down / 10 up with Charter Cable here in WI. Honestly its over kill for 2 laptops a PC and PS3. If the Missus and I didn't get free cable from us working there we wouldn't even have that speed.

It could be worse with bandwidth caps like other places in the world, like Australia. When I played WoW they always hated patch days because it would eat up their bandwidth and for part of the month they would have a severely limited connection. Near end of the month it was common for one or 2 people in a 25 man raid to be unable to play because their bandwidth was capped and WoW was extremely laggy.

If you don't mind me asking what are you planning on doing with all that bandwidth that you would need over 40mb/8mb? Hosting a server, or multiple large torrents with lots of peers?
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#3 May 06 2012 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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BeanX wrote:
I get 100mb down / 10 up with Charter Cable here in WI. Honestly its over kill for 2 laptops a PC and PS3. If the Missus and I didn't get free cable from us working there we wouldn't even have that speed.

It could be worse with bandwidth caps like other places in the world, like Australia. When I played WoW they always hated patch days because it would eat up their bandwidth and for part of the month they would have a severely limited connection. Near end of the month it was common for one or 2 people in a 25 man raid to be unable to play because their bandwidth was capped and WoW was extremely laggy.

If you don't mind me asking what are you planning on doing with all that bandwidth that you would need over 40mb/8mb? Hosting a server, or multiple large torrents with lots of peers?



Hosting a server, yes.


With my current internet I can only host 16 people. If I could get fiber optic internet, and a small RAM upgrade, I could host over 100.
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#4 May 06 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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I see. I didn't think Minecraft would eat up that much bandwidth per person. Only thing i could suggest is seeing what kind of business connections are available in your area, they might be more expensive but they might offer better Upload and download speeds, versus normal consumer leech connections.
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#5 May 06 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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It could be worse with bandwidth caps like other places in the world


Wait. Comcast has already started with the bandwidth cap by placing a 250GB cap on everything except their top tier internet, which is arguably where it would be most needed, if it was actually needed. They also don't count their Xfinity service towards the cap, so add a kick in the balls to net neutrality.
#6 May 06 2012 at 10:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well no, because it's at a premium,

But yeah, it's true, US fiber delivery sucks. Partially because consumers aren't willing to pay for it directly, as the perform of US fiber vendors suggests, and partially because those vendors don't know how to cheapen the delivery.

Edited, May 7th 2012 12:59am by Timelordwho
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#7 May 07 2012 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Typical corporate greed has again caused us to be behind the ball in the information department. Other country's realized that they needed to regulate and update things long ago. Until they start waking up and finding they are behind and so far behind that the competition is long gone!
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#8 May 07 2012 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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The UK actually has a similar problem compared to the rest of Europe. Having an eduroam account helps, especially when abroad.

From what I've heard, the Internet in Pakistan is actually pretty good, and really cheap. Smiley: grin
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#9 May 07 2012 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah but at least we have fibre optics!
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#10 May 07 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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We have cheaper gas than Britain and less exploding buildings than Pakistan.

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In more seriousness, it never occurred to me to be dismayed by my internet speeds. I get 25.x down and 4.x up and the only time it makes a difference is downloading stuff off Steam which isn't a daily event. Maybe if I torrented stuff I'd care more but it seems satisfactory to my needs.

Edited, May 7th 2012 8:53am by Jophiel
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#11 May 07 2012 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Yeah but at least we have fibre optics!



In some places...
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#12 May 07 2012 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Yeah but at least we have fibre optics!
So do I. Smiley: tongue
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#13 May 07 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Where this really becomes an issue is business internet in rural areas. We have a lot of clients with little remote sites that can't get much better than residential DSL because the ISPs in control of that area have no big pipes installed at all. We have daily tickets come in from one client because their remote site encounters script errors trying to send 100 MB Xray files. It's depressing and there's nothing we can do to help except whine to their ISP every month or so.
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#14 May 07 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, friends who would love to play WoW with you but the cable company didn't lay cable up their road, and what they get over the phone line isn't very good.
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#15 May 07 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
Yeah, ISPs in small towns suck balls. My mom pays way more for the same service here, that I did up in Eugene. Granted they're two different companies as well, but still. I've been using 11MB down (4MB upload I think), and it works fine with a direct connection. The wireless router we have is used and who knows how old though, so using the internet on my netbook is torturous.

Still, hearing that South Korea has wicked fast internet makes me even more excited to go over there and teach. Smiley: grin
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#16 May 07 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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The facts are a little bit (a lot!) fudged in said article. Trust me, the state of network connections (especially to private residences) in Asia is not that great. Can't speak personally about mainland Europe, but my impression is that it has similar problems. There's no perfect solution, but countries that adopted large scale networking later had the advantage of using newer technology. However, that does not mean that the implementation was done as well, or that they didn't cut corners along the way (hint: they did).

I'd go into the technical details as to why just running fiber to more places doesn't really make your network faster, but 99% of you wouldn't understand it.

Edited, May 7th 2012 6:52pm by gbaji
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#17 May 07 2012 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The facts are a little big (a lot!) fudged in said article. Trust me, the state of network connections (especially to private residences) in Asia is not that great. Can't speak personally about mainland Europe, but my impression is that it has similar problems. There's no perfect solution, but countries that adopted large scale networking later had the advantage of using newer technology. However, that does not mean that the implementation was done as well, or that they didn't cut corners along the way (hint: they did).

I'd go into the technical details as to why just running fiber to more places doesn't really make your network faster, but 99% of you wouldn't understand it.


Just because you don't, doesn't mean some of us won't.
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#18 May 07 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Kalivha wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Yeah but at least we have fibre optics!



In some places...

Let me rephrase that: I have fibre optics. Smiley: grin
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#19 May 07 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Internet here varies from 20/2 to 200/10, but most of use are running on 40/4. Anything above 20/2 is capped at 250GB/month, based off of what I read on the local providers websites today. I've never come close to using that.
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#20 May 07 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The facts are a little big (a lot!) fudged in said article. Trust me, the state of network connections (especially to private residences) in Asia is not that great. Can't speak personally about mainland Europe, but my impression is that it has similar problems. There's no perfect solution, but countries that adopted large scale networking later had the advantage of using newer technology. However, that does not mean that the implementation was done as well, or that they didn't cut corners along the way (hint: they did).

I'd go into the technical details as to why just running fiber to more places doesn't really make your network faster, but 99% of you wouldn't understand it.


Just because you don't, doesn't mean some of us won't.


Yup. But most of those people will see the same problems with the assumptions made in the linked article that I do. At least, I'd hope so.
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#21 May 07 2012 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The facts are a little big (a lot!) fudged in said article. Trust me, the state of network connections (especially to private residences) in Asia is not that great. Can't speak personally about mainland Europe, but my impression is that it has similar problems. There's no perfect solution, but countries that adopted large scale networking later had the advantage of using newer technology. However, that does not mean that the implementation was done as well, or that they didn't cut corners along the way (hint: they did).

I'd go into the technical details as to why just running fiber to more places doesn't really make your network faster, but 99% of you wouldn't understand it.


Just because you don't, doesn't mean some of us won't.


Yup. But most of those people will see the same problems with the assumptions made in the linked article that I do. At least, I'd hope so.


You'd think by now you'd realize that no one here sees the same problems in anything that you do.
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#22 May 08 2012 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The facts are a little big (a lot!) fudged in said article. Trust me, the state of network connections (especially to private residences) in Asia is not that great. Can't speak personally about mainland Europe, but my impression is that it has similar problems. There's no perfect solution, but countries that adopted large scale networking later had the advantage of using newer technology. However, that does not mean that the implementation was done as well, or that they didn't cut corners along the way (hint: they did).

I'd go into the technical details as to why just running fiber to more places doesn't really make your network faster, but 99% of you wouldn't understand it.


Just because you don't, doesn't mean some of us won't.


Yup. But most of those people will see the same problems with the assumptions made in the linked article that I do. At least, I'd hope so.


You'd think by now you'd realize that no one here sees the same problems in anything that you do.


Not "no one". The 99% who wouldn't understand the technical details. Which was exactly my point.
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#23 May 09 2012 at 12:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Raolan wrote:
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It could be worse with bandwidth caps like other places in the world


Wait. Comcast has already started with the bandwidth cap by placing a 250GB cap on everything except their top tier internet, which is arguably where it would be most needed, if it was actually needed. They also don't count their Xfinity service towards the cap, so add a kick in the balls to net neutrality.


Comcast has caps on ALL speeds including the 105meg, only way to not have cap is if you have a business class line not residential services. The majority of customers do not even come close to that. On my node I am the heaviest user and will sometimes hit 200gig in a single month but that is MAYBE once every 6 months, my normal usage is running around 100meg, and this is with 3 laptops, 1 desktop, ps2 for FFXI running all the time, xbox360 and a ps3, my daughter is always using the ps3 for netflix and when I am playing FFXI or wow I am usually running something on Netflix or Hulu as well. If you think the Comcast caps are horrible at 250gig then check out the other companies that are way lower and charge overage. And faster speed means if gets done faster it doesn't mean you WILL use more data. Not sure why people, not you, people in general, equate more speed with more consumption.

As for the "Xfinity services" not going against cap what are you referring to. Xfinity is a branding name for all services in upgraded areas. It is called Xfinity whether you have basic cable or a triple-play bundle with anyroom DVR, skype and the home security system. If you mean the VOD services well that doesn't use internet to run. The voice services? that runs on the Comcast backbone with no other internet traffic so it wouldn't count. If you mean the XBOX Xfinity app for TV then yeah it doesn't count against your cap but lets be serious here if it counted against the cap people would bitch that it is something Comcast offers and shouldn't count. Since it doesn't count the same people bitch that Netflix and other video services count against cap, it is a lose lose situation for Comcast, they just decided to go with the route that is better for customers.

TL:DR- 250gig caps suck but a hell of a lot better than 50gig caps with overages.
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#24 May 09 2012 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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One thing that really irks me about internet in America is how expensive it is for what you get versus Asian countries. I don't know how well the specific implementations work in practice, but I can't imagine how any other first world country could be much worse.

In Japan, you can get 160 Mbps cable internet for around $65 per month. Here, the closest thing I can get from Comcast is 105 Mbps for $200. You can get a 1 Gbps fiber connection over there for around the same price, and that isn't even available in my area. FiOS coverage is pretty spotty around here; I can't even check the availability since my address apparently doesn't exist. I live in a major metro area and my options are still relatively subpar.

Are corners cut? I'll bet. However, even if I were to only get half of the speed of that fiber connection, it'd still be faster than anything I could get over here. Hell, I rarely get my advertised speed, anyway. Depending on how many people are online, the speed could be a fraction of what you pay for. Comcast is also apparently more than happy to throttle Netflix.

As for not using that speed: well, I'm sure you could find a way once it was actually available. Streaming multiple high definition videos to different rooms? A lot of vendors are moving their primary software distribution online. That ridiculously bloated Xcode download was a royal pain. Games these days are several gigabytes, and call me impatient, but I don't want the download to take more time than driving to the store.

While we're talking about download speeds, the sharpest stick in my craw is upload speed. What about telecommuting? Uploading ridiculously large files without anxiously awaiting the inevitable time out? When my mother was a freelance artist, uploading PSDs took forever. A lot of my coursework was online, and uploading those large PDFs was a bit of a pain in the patoot. High speed internet isn't just for entertainment.
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#25 May 13 2012 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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BeanX wrote:
I get 100mb down / 10 up with Charter Cable here in WI. Honestly its over kill for 2 laptops a PC and PS3. If the Missus and I didn't get free cable from us working there we wouldn't even have that speed.

It could be worse with bandwidth caps like other places in the world, like Australia. When I played WoW they always hated patch days because it would eat up their bandwidth and for part of the month they would have a severely limited connection. Near end of the month it was common for one or 2 people in a 25 man raid to be unable to play because their bandwidth was capped and WoW was extremely laggy.

If you don't mind me asking what are you planning on doing with all that bandwidth that you would need over 40mb/8mb? Hosting a server, or multiple large torrents with lots of peers?


My God where are you from? We must be practically neighbors.

Edited, May 13th 2012 1:23am by Codyy
#26 May 13 2012 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Fond Du Lac :P There is a few of us from Wisconsin here, I remember a few people had Posting from *insert random WI city here* back when it was at the bottom of Zam posts.
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