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Michael Bay can suck a fat one.Follow

#1 Mar 22 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/19/showbiz/movies/bay-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-ew/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7

Um... no. Michael Bay, you are a poison to an already dying industry and I wish you'd just stop making movies altogether.
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#2 Mar 22 2012 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Micheal Bay will never have the same reverence for the Ninja Turtle canon as Vanilla Ice's Ninja rap. Smiley: frown
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#3 Mar 22 2012 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
Wonder if someone will shoot him. I mean, I would. Better question: wonder what Eastman and Laird have to say about it.
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#4 Mar 22 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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Eastman seems to like it, while Laird seems to disagree.
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#5 Mar 22 2012 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly don't care what they think of it. This is nothing more than another lame hollywood bullsh*t attempt to rewrite an existing story to build profits from an existing fan base. It's bad enough when they do a remake, but this is a reWRITE. For god's sake, they're removing the whole M from TMNT. It's ludicrous and I hope the @#%^er flops worse than John Carter.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#6 Mar 22 2012 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Someone always has to go and ruin a good thing.
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#7 Mar 23 2012 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
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#8 Mar 23 2012 at 5:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Well there is still hope that someone will get it right (the toys for the new toon look awesome, that makes me happy).
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#9 Mar 23 2012 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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Tyrrant wrote:
"Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles" just doesn't have the same ring to it.


However the title is only one letter away from revealing it's true nature.
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#10 Mar 23 2012 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, it could be "Martian."

I won't see it, even a bootleg or torrent, but I had dismissed the movie all together when I found out Bay was attached to the project. More details is just more reasons I feel justified in my decision.
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#11 Mar 23 2012 at 6:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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#12 Mar 23 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Even on a practical level, I'm not sure I get the move.

The whole allure of movies like this is supposed to be the nostalgia of it all. That was the initial hook of Transformers, IIRC (before it simply became spectacle). Nostalgia, at the very least, is how they drive initial interest in the project.

You don't get that boost if you change one of the main features of the story. I don't remember a ton about TMNT, but as I recall it, the mutation part wasn't just their origin, but played a major role in their characters and was a prevailing theme. This seems like a sizeable change, actually.
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#13 Mar 23 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Even on a practical level, I'm not sure I get the move.

The whole allure of movies like this is supposed to be the nostalgia of it all. That was the initial hook of Transformers, IIRC (before it simply became spectacle). Nostalgia, at the very least, is how they drive initial interest in the project.

You don't get that boost if you change one of the main features of the story. I don't remember a ton about TMNT, but as I recall it, the mutation part wasn't just their origin, but played a major role in their characters and was a prevailing theme. This seems like a sizeable change, actually.


I could see making Shredder an invading alien and having the mutant Ninja Turtles defend the Earth against him. That'd be an acceptable change to canon.

Hell, I could even see making the ooze itself extra terrestrial in origin. Instead of locally produced nuclear reactive goo, make it a specific humanizing or animalizing mutagen. Sort of like the monoliths from 2001. That would also be an acceptable change to canon.

Making the turtles themselves aliens just ruins it. What about Splinter? Is he an alien too? If so, how did he learn earth based martial arts?
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#14 Mar 23 2012 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I guess outer-space turtles aliens provides a quicker origin. Rather than have to plausibly explain (even in movie terms) radioactive goo that turns terrapins in humanoids capable of being trained in the martial arts by a rodent who also became a humanoid and was previously trained in the martial arts (or self trained by watching a human as I recall)*, you just say "BAM! Alien turtles! Moving on..."


*Looking back, "mutant rat-man who was never formally trained but totally saw a guy do some kung-fu before back in his rat-rat days" wouldn't be my first choice for trainer in the martial arts.
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#15 Mar 23 2012 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I guess outer-space turtles aliens provides a quicker origin. Rather than have to plausibly explain (even in movie terms) radioactive goo that turns terrapins in humanoids capable of being trained in the martial arts by a rodent who also became a humanoid and was previously trained in the martial arts (or self trained by watching a human as I recall)*, you just say "BAM! Alien turtles! Moving on..."


*Looking back, "mutant rat-man who was never formally trained but totally saw a guy do some kung-fu before back in his rat-rat days" wouldn't be my first choice for trainer in the martial arts.


I thought Splinter was a human who got turned rat, not a rat who got turned human.

Maybe I am mis-remembering.
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#16 Mar 23 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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80s/90s cartoon he was a human martial artist turned rat. Comics/movie he was a rat owned by a martial artist turned human.

Also, last cartoon had Shredder/Krang hybrid.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2012 12:17pm by lolgaxe
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#17 Mar 23 2012 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Comics/movie he was a rat owned by a martial artist turned human.


Not only this, but the original canon has it that Splinter was Shredder's pet rat at one time. There was some sort of struggle in the man's home and the cage got knocked over. The rat escaped, clawed at the owner, and ran away. The rat eventually got goo'd and became splinter, while Shredder carries a scar on his face from when Splinter escaped.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#18 Mar 23 2012 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Ahhhhhhh yeah for me the cartoons are my primary source. That explains it.

Still doesn't mean an alien is any better.
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#19 Mar 23 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Tyrrant wrote:
"Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles" just doesn't have the same ring to it.


However the title is only one letter away from revealing it's true nature.

I just couldn't think of a good word beginning with an "I" otherwise I would of gone with that joke.
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#20 Mar 23 2012 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Um... no. Michael Bay, you are a poison to an already dying industry and I wish you'd just stop making movies altogether.


What industry is that? The Hollywood sci-fi movie industry? Didn't know it was dying. Didn't know Michael Bay was considered a bad director, either. When I think of bad directors, I think of Uwe Boll. When I think of Michael Bay, I think of Bad Boys, The Rock, Armageddon, Pearl Harbor and Transformers.

Nerd rage over the Transformers lore aside, what was so bad about those movies that you consider the director poisonous?
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#21 Mar 23 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I think of bad directors, I think of Uwe Boll.

Most people would like to not think about him



Edited, Mar 23rd 2012 6:17pm by Tyrrant
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#22 Mar 23 2012 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't know who Uwe Boll was until after I'd played BloodRayne and went to rent the movie.
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#23 Mar 23 2012 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Nerd rage over the Transformers lore aside, what was so bad about those movies that you consider the director poisonous?
He's okay with movies that don't have decades worth of lore to work with. And even then, his movies look more like excuses to blow stuff up, which in itself wouldn't be so bad if he didn't try to force a plot down your throat alongside it.
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#24 Mar 23 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Nerd rage over the Transformers lore aside, what was so bad about those movies that you consider the director poisonous?
He's okay with movies that don't have decades worth of lore to work with. And even then, his movies look more like excuses to blow stuff up, which in itself wouldn't be so bad if he didn't try to force a plot down your throat alongside it.


This mostly.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#25 Mar 23 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I could see making Shredder an invading alien and having the mutant Ninja Turtles defend the Earth against him. That'd be an acceptable change to canon.

Hell, I could even see making the ooze itself extra terrestrial in origin. Instead of locally produced nuclear reactive goo, make it a specific humanizing or animalizing mutagen. Sort of like the monoliths from 2001. That would also be an acceptable change to canon.


Didn't you just describe the 2003 TMNT cartoon series and the second TMNT movie?
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#26 Mar 23 2012 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Nerd rage over the Transformers lore aside, what was so bad about those movies that you consider the director poisonous?
He's okay with movies that don't have decades worth of lore to work with. And even then, his movies look more like excuses to blow stuff up, which in itself wouldn't be so bad if he didn't try to force a plot down your throat alongside it.


An action/sci-fi movie where the main focus is on the effects? Oh, the blasphemy! We need more psychological sci-fi thrillers taking place inside spaceships. They tend to be popular.

Guys, this smells a lot like nerd rage to me. I get that Michael Bay sort of @#%^ed up the lore with his adaptation of Transformers, but that's why they call it an adaptation. Imagine how unbelievably cheesy and confusing a live action movie of Transformers would be to the average movie-goer if it followed the lore to the letter? I mean, how would you even go about condensing decades worth of lore into one, two or three movies?

I think he did an excellent job of adapting the franchise to the live action scene. He may have screwed up decades of lore in the process, but considering the three first movies made a $2 billion profit, I'm guessing people didn't mind it too much. And Roger Ebert may disagree with me here, but most people watch action/sci-fi movies for the action and the sci-fi, not the plot. Look at Avatar. Pocahontas in space and it still made a profit in the billions.
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#27 Mar 23 2012 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Look at Avatar. Pocahontas in space and it still made a profit in the billions.


Pocahontas in Space? I thought it was Dances with Smurfs.
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#28 Mar 23 2012 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Guys, this smells a lot like nerd rage to me.
Duh. Smiley: tongue
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#29 Mar 23 2012 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Guys, this smells a lot like nerd rage to me.
Duh. Smiley: tongue
Oh, okay, as long as we're on the same page. Smiley: lol
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#30 Mar 23 2012 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I watched Transformers 2 for Devastator, not "Ballsack the Giant Robotic Dog". Smiley: mad
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#31 Mar 23 2012 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
I mentioned this idea at work, and a few men I work with who are well in their 50s both said "That sounds like a dumb move on Bay's part. I bet fans are not happy." Both of these men have children who went through the "tmnt" phase as 80s/90s kids. Even some of the guys that are my age didn't like the idea.
The sad thing is, is I will go see it -.- I like TMNT that much I will suffer through it.
but again, that new cartoon looks pretty awesome. Can't wait for it to start up :p
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#32 Mar 28 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Good news everyone, you don't have to debate about the M anymore. Mr. Bay fixed it right up.

I always love when people involved with a project are asked about the project, like the director or writer is going to tell them how much they hate the project or how awful it is.
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#33 Mar 28 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Good news everyone, you don't have to debate about the M anymore. Mr. Bay fixed it right up.

I always love when people involved with a project are asked about the project, like the director or writer is going to tell them how much they hate the project or how awful it is.


Bet that's motivated as much by that new marketing trend of simplifying names (see: Fast & Furious) as much as it is to support the origin story. After all these years of reboots, the trends are becoming really obvious.
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#34 Mar 28 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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See, here's the thing: Michael Bay is a terrible director. His "adaptation" to Transformers was to center them around a bunch of whining, terribly acted human actors, toss in some teenaged groaner jokes, and call it a day.

If he had made Bad Boys, but it starred the Transformers, nerd rage would have been quelled. People did not want to pay to see Shaia Leboef say NONONONONONONONONONONONO every other scene...

Changing an origin story is one thing. Raping a franchise is another. The entire storyline of TMNT is based on three, very crucial things:

1 - Humans' hatred and fear of the mutants
2 - The desire of said mutants wanting to be human
3 - The concept of the disposable society and the idea of there being a world the average person overlooks

The origin story of the turtles is that they were supposed to be beloved pets for a child, but the child's carelesness caused them to be lost down a sewer drain, only to wind up running headlong into a mutation agent carelessly disposed of. Everything else about them, both in the cartoon and in the comic, bases itself around them living on earth, feeling a need to defend their home despite the hatred directed at them.

Changing the basic plot line to turn earth into some sort of battleground for either one alien force versus an earth based one or two alien forces is total rape of the franchise. It's not even sharing anything except the baseline concept of the the heroes being Ninjas who are also Turtles, and even THAT is debatable unless the story is about aliens kidnapping turtles to mutate them into humanoids and then somehow teaching them Ninjitsu and plopping them back on earth.

The cartoons, at least, did have the concept of alien forces at work after a couple seasons. I didn't follow the comic books, but the associated RPG system that Palladium had did add in the concepts of space, time and dimensional travel that they could have just as easily pulled from.
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#36 Mar 28 2012 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
See, here's the thing: Michael Bay is a terrible director. His "adaptation" to Transformers was to center them around a bunch of whining, terribly acted human actors, toss in some teenaged groaner jokes, and call it a day.

If he had made Bad Boys, but it starred the Transformers, nerd rage would have been quelled. People did not want to pay to see Shaia Leboef say NONONONONONONONONONONONO every other scene...

Changing an origin story is one thing. Raping a franchise is another. The entire storyline of TMNT is based on three, very crucial things:

1 - Humans' hatred and fear of the mutants
2 - The desire of said mutants wanting to be human
3 - The concept of the disposable society and the idea of there being a world the average person overlooks

The origin story of the turtles is that they were supposed to be beloved pets for a child, but the child's carelesness caused them to be lost down a sewer drain, only to wind up running headlong into a mutation agent carelessly disposed of. Everything else about them, both in the cartoon and in the comic, bases itself around them living on earth, feeling a need to defend their home despite the hatred directed at them.

Changing the basic plot line to turn earth into some sort of battleground for either one alien force versus an earth based one or two alien forces is total rape of the franchise. It's not even sharing anything except the baseline concept of the the heroes being Ninjas who are also Turtles, and even THAT is debatable unless the story is about aliens kidnapping turtles to mutate them into humanoids and then somehow teaching them Ninjitsu and plopping them back on earth.

The cartoons, at least, did have the concept of alien forces at work after a couple seasons. I didn't follow the comic books, but the associated RPG system that Palladium had did add in the concepts of space, time and dimensional travel that they could have just as easily pulled from.

Worth posting twice, apparently.
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#37 Mar 28 2012 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
That's too bad because regular, run-of-the-mill ninja turtles are not worth my time.
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#38 Mar 29 2012 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I could see making Shredder an invading alien and having the mutant Ninja Turtles defend the Earth against him. That'd be an acceptable change to canon.

Hell, I could even see making the ooze itself extra terrestrial in origin. Instead of locally produced nuclear reactive goo, make it a specific humanizing or animalizing mutagen. Sort of like the monoliths from 2001. That would also be an acceptable change to canon.

Making the turtles themselves aliens just ruins it. What about Splinter? Is he an alien too? If so, how did he learn earth based martial arts?

The logical solution to radioactivity no longer being the go to for mutations and such was "Something something genetic engineering something something retrovirus".
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#39 Mar 29 2012 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
See, here's the thing: Michael Bay is a terrible director. His "adaptation" to Transformers was to center them around a bunch of whining, terribly acted human actors, toss in some teenaged groaner jokes, and call it a day.
Didn't you grow up on the original Transformers like me? That's what that was as well.
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#40 Mar 29 2012 at 6:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't have any toys of the human beings, though.
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#41 Mar 29 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
See, here's the thing: Michael Bay is a terrible director. His "adaptation" to Transformers was to center them around a bunch of whining, terribly acted human actors, toss in some teenaged groaner jokes, and call it a day.
Didn't you grow up on the original Transformers like me? That's what that was as well.

The shows were not centered around and following the exploits of Spike and the others. There were humans present, but the bulk of the action was left to the Transformers. If you were to go back and change the series to match the movies, the humans would start the show, the Transformers would come in for 5 minutes, then we'd watch the humans for 25 minutes, then the Transformers would duke it out for the last 5.

I don't recall that being the way the show went, and a lot of the episodes only featured bit parts for the humans.
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#42 Mar 29 2012 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
See, here's the thing: Michael Bay is a terrible director. His "adaptation" to Transformers was to center them around a bunch of whining, terribly acted human actors, toss in some teenaged groaner jokes, and call it a day.
Didn't you grow up on the original Transformers like me? That's what that was as well.

The shows were not centered around and following the exploits of Spike and the others. There were humans present, but the bulk of the action was left to the Transformers. If you were to go back and change the series to match the movies, the humans would start the show, the Transformers would come in for 5 minutes, then we'd watch the humans for 25 minutes, then the Transformers would duke it out for the last 5.

I don't recall that being the way the show went, and a lot of the episodes only featured bit parts for the humans.


^ This, and I have the 20th anniversary box set to back it up.
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#43 Mar 30 2012 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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With lolgaxe on this one, not even worth stealing.
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