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#102 Dec 21 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Disclaimer: Haven't followed this thread. Just skimmed a few of gbaji's posts and noticed this blurb:

gbaji wrote:
Sure. My point, which seems to have sailed over some people's head is that we need to be incredibly careful when making decisions about gender identity at a young age and doubly so if we're encouraging (intentionally or not) gender identity which is outside the societal norms. As I stated earlier, I don't make those norms, but they exist. Anyone who acts outside those norms *will* suffer negative consequences. Not because I'm a meanie, or I hate them or anything. Don't shoot the **** messenger. I'm simply pointing out that those norms exist for a reason, and that those outside them will find their lives more difficult purely as a result.


Given that default negative involved with any form of transgender alignment, if our objective is to ensure our children suffer the least harm, it makes sense to encourage them to conform with those societal norms as much as possible.


This is fundamentally wrong.


Why? It's not politically correct. But it's also not wrong. I'm willing to write down in words the uncomfortable truths that we all live with, but some of us like to pretend don't exist. The reality is that a child *will* be happier if they can be taught to conform to societal norms. I didn't make it that way, but it is true. Ignoring the real world in the pursuit of avoiding a politically incorrect statement just seems kinda foolish to me.


Instead of just knee-jerk reacting, tell me why what I said is wrong. Can you do that?
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#103 Dec 21 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
He's actually claiming that this clinic is turning a huge sum of male-born males into male-born females purely for the sake of possibly helping a few trans kids.


No. I'm saying that this sort of therapy is not the right answer for most children who exhibit cross gender tendencies, doubly so if this is occurring at a very young age (like 3). I believe that the first form of therapy should always be to look for solutions which *don't* involve transgender assumptions. Find out if it's just a phase. See if there are other psychological issues going on which may be causing the behavior. Only after exhausting all other possibilities should one turn to therapy designed to help the child accept their transgender self. I think that some of you are projecting assumptions into my own position based on what you think a stock stereotypical conservative would say and not actually reading what I'm writing.


Quote:
That's not a logic error. That's spitting in the face of logic and trumpeting the same bigoted crap he always does. And he is simultaneously stygmatizing trans peoples for violating social norms.


Where on earth did I stigmatize transgenders for violating social norms? You're seriously projecting. Read what I actually am writing. You might be surprised at how not-bigoted it is.

Quote:
It's no more malicious than any other ignorant anti-*** crap-spewer. But it's not any better either.


As long as you assume anyone who doesn't sing the praises of any minority group, their actions, and anything associated with them must be a bigot, you'll never be able to get what I'm saying. Maybe take your own blinders off first? Might help.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 1:18pm by gbaji
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#104 Dec 21 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Disclaimer: Haven't followed this thread. Just skimmed a few of gbaji's posts and noticed this blurb:

gbaji wrote:
Sure. My point, which seems to have sailed over some people's head is that we need to be incredibly careful when making decisions about gender identity at a young age and doubly so if we're encouraging (intentionally or not) gender identity which is outside the societal norms. As I stated earlier, I don't make those norms, but they exist. Anyone who acts outside those norms *will* suffer negative consequences. Not because I'm a meanie, or I hate them or anything. Don't shoot the **** messenger. I'm simply pointing out that those norms exist for a reason, and that those outside them will find their lives more difficult purely as a result.


Given that default negative involved with any form of transgender alignment, if our objective is to ensure our children suffer the least harm, it makes sense to encourage them to conform with those societal norms as much as possible.


This is fundamentally wrong.


Why? It's not politically correct. But it's also not wrong. I'm willing to write down in words the uncomfortable truths that we all live with, but some of us like to pretend don't exist. The reality is that a child *will* be happier if they can be taught to conform to societal norms. I didn't make it that way, but it is true. Ignoring the real world in the pursuit of avoiding a politically incorrect statement just seems kinda foolish to me.


Instead of just knee-jerk reacting, tell me why what I said is wrong. Can you do that?


You're wrong because people have been trying to force transgender individuals to conform to the gender norms for as long as we've made ourselves known. It's physiologically impossible for a trans person to force themselves to deny the reality of who they are so as to conform to gender norms and keep other people happy, AND be happy themselves. Why do you think the suicide rate among trans individuals is so obscenely high?

I'm not talking from lack of experience, either. In fact, you can't deny that I have a lot more experience in the field of how a transgender person feels than you ever will. I know you're intelligent enough to see what I mean by that, but if you think you can convince me otherwise, please try. I was raised Catholic. I went to a Catholic school for 9 years. I was taught that people like me were sinners and were wrong. I was told that even though God loves everyone, people like me shouldn't express themselves, because it makes other people uncomfortable. I denied who I was to the world from before I even knew what I was, because I knew if a little boy acted the way I wanted to act, I would be labeled as a sinner, and God would punish me, and my family would abandon me. I did this for more than 10 years. And you know what? I don't have a single happy memory of my childhood. I had a normal family, a good education, good friends, good morals, and not in a single memory of my life from my earliest memories up until the day I finally came out publicly, did I ever feel "happy". Not once.

Imagine, for example, if your political views and opinions were not considered the norm, and for your entire life, you were forced to profess and claim views that completely opposed what you actually thought, because "that's the norm". Imagine your right to free speech ripped away from you completely. You have to act and speak like Jophiel, and agree with everything he says, for your entire life. Do you think you could be happy? Do you think you could feel true joy? Sure, you could pretend, and say you were happy, and focus on the little things, but you would know, every waking second of the day, if you ever actually tried to voice your actual opinion, your entire world would come crashing down, you would be disowned, fired, evicted, and forced to suffer in miserable loneliness because you were different. ****, to make it even more realistic, imagine that you had to do all this, while wearing an Obama costume. If you ever tried to take off the costume, or change it, the world would abandon you.

And don't say "But that's not the case." This is a hypothetical, meant to give you an understanding of what it feels like.

Do you get the point I'm trying to make?
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Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#105 Dec 21 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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This just in, diversity is evil! Everyone must homogenize! Pluralism only leads to pain and unhappiness! If you aren't living the American middle-class dream, you aren't living at all!

1. Not one person in this thread but you has claimed that every cross-dressing child is a candidate for trans therapy. It's a straw man, and a dumb one at that.

2. The very act of encouraging them to adopt social norms for the sake of their own happiness necessarily stigmatizes a norm outside of that construct. Do you ACTUALLY not see that? If you tell a child that they are going to be happy if they act like a man or a woman, but unhappy if they don't exemplify those roles, you stygmatize it. That's what active encouragement is. And this is precisely why children shouldn't be pushed towards any gender role, trans or heteronormative.

3. Not being personally interested in minority issues, and wishing to actively encourage people away from supporting minorities, are two very different things.
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#106 Dec 21 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Also, it's not terribly uncommon for people to come out as ***** late in life. Eventually, they just get too tired putting on a facade that isn't them--it's a constant effort, and it is NOT gratifying. They spend their whole lives alienating others from ever getting close to their real selves. Many of them end up building families that fracture as a result (for instance, those of the absurdly high number of anti-*** closet cases in the GOP).

Putting on a false identity might save you from the scorn of bigots (like yourself, gbaji), but it doesn't self you from the self-deprecation that necessarily goes along with.
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#107 Dec 21 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Disclaimer: Haven't followed this thread. Just skimmed a few of gbaji's posts and noticed this blurb:

gbaji wrote:
Sure. My point, which seems to have sailed over some people's head is that we need to be incredibly careful when making decisions about gender identity at a young age and doubly so if we're encouraging (intentionally or not) gender identity which is outside the societal norms. As I stated earlier, I don't make those norms, but they exist. Anyone who acts outside those norms *will* suffer negative consequences. Not because I'm a meanie, or I hate them or anything. Don't shoot the **** messenger. I'm simply pointing out that those norms exist for a reason, and that those outside them will find their lives more difficult purely as a result.


Given that default negative involved with any form of transgender alignment, if our objective is to ensure our children suffer the least harm, it makes sense to encourage them to conform with those societal norms as much as possible.


This is fundamentally wrong.


Why? It's not politically correct. But it's also not wrong. I'm willing to write down in words the uncomfortable truths that we all live with, but some of us like to pretend don't exist. The reality is that a child *will* be happier if they can be taught to conform to societal norms. I didn't make it that way, but it is true. Ignoring the real world in the pursuit of avoiding a politically incorrect statement just seems kinda foolish to me.


Instead of just knee-jerk reacting, tell me why what I said is wrong. Can you do that?


There's a veritable ton wrong with it. Shooting from the hip:

- It neglects the possibility that encouraging conformation over self-expression can cause greater harm to a child, particularly in the long term.
- If everyone shared that approach, societal reform would be stymied.
- It does not consider the fairness or appropriateness of the societal norms in question.
- There are a variety of obvious negative examples if we extend that attitude beyond the current topic. You willing to defend that statement when the societal norm is something that doesn't align with your socio-political ideals? Doubt it. How about when the norm is something that could be unquestioningly harmful, like say, malicious teasing, or binge drinking? Should a child be encouraged to pursue them because it'll help them conform? Even at its most basic, this attitude would teach timidness.

It's a shortsighted, inane notion that doesn't stand up to even the most cursory analysis. As I said, I'm not following the larger topic at hand. There might very well be arguments for whatever greater position you're holding, but this certainly isn't one of them.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:35pm by Eske
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#108 Dec 21 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
1. Not one person in this thread but you has claimed that every cross-dressing child is a candidate for trans therapy. It's a straw man, and a dumb one at that.


Um... Except that... wait for it... it's the question asked in the OP. The question was asking how young is too young to consider/conclude that a child is transgender. I've just made the logical extension that this also requires that we ask when parents should switch from discouraging the child's cross-gender behavior to encouraging it. Isn't that the key point here? Or did you miss that with those big blinders on your face?

My answer (if you read it) is that 3 is too young for this, but 10 might be the right age. WTF is wrong with that answer?

Quote:
2. The very act of encouraging them to adopt social norms for the sake of their own happiness necessarily stigmatizes a norm outside of that construct. Do you ACTUALLY not see that?


No I don't. I think that's a typical response from someone who can't see beyond their own politically correct glasses though.

What that act does is recognize what societal norms are and what they mean. It recognizes that anyone who is outside those norms will suffer some negatives for it (stigma if that's the word you prefer). The person encouraging their child to conform to those norms didn't create the norms and didn't create the social negatives one might suffer for existing outside them.

Saying "Don't run in traffic because you might get hit by a car" isn't the same as actually threatening to run someone over with a car if they don't comply.

Quote:
If you tell a child that they are going to be happy if they act like a man or a woman, but unhappy if they don't exemplify those roles, you stygmatize it.


That's a bizarre interpretation of my argument. Why would you assume I'm saying that you should tell the child he'll be happier if he acts this way versus that way? I'm saying you simply encourage them to act in a given manner. You're confusing why the parents teaches a child to behave a certain way with the method actually used.

Quote:
That's what active encouragement is. And this is precisely why children shouldn't be pushed towards any gender role, trans or heteronormative.


You can say that, and that may sound great in a politically correct context. But the reality is that parents are still going to dress their boys in pants and their girls in dresses. They're still going to put ribbons in the girls hair and not in the boys. They're still going to buy the girls dolls and the boys toy trucks. Why? Because that way their kids will "fit in".

I'm just the messenger. I'm pointing out how the world really is. Feel free to wail and gnash your teeth and whatnot, but it's not my fault that those are the standards of dress and behavior that our society expects and that most people are going to want to align themselves with those standards, if for no other reason that that they'll feel more comfortable doing so.

The idea that we should discourage parents from doing this because once in a great while a child might be transgender and suffer harm as a result is catering to the minority while harming the majority. Most kids will be more harmed by not being encouraged to conform than will be harmed in the other direction. You think that the boy who's parents never told him that boys don't wear dresses isn't harmed the first day he arrives at school wearing a dress? You don't honestly think that only transgender boys might do this if we did what you suggest and avoid pushing children towards any gender role?

Quote:
3. Not being personally interested in minority issues, and wishing to actively encourage people away from supporting minorities, are two very different things.


Are you saying that I'm trying to actively encourage people away from supporting minorities? That's a pretty interesting all-or-nothing argument you've got there. Stop thinking only in terms of whether something is for or against a group and you might understand what I'm saying.
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#109 Dec 21 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Gbaji is an idiot.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#110 Dec 21 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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An idiot who is somehow trapped in 1950s middle America.
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#111 Dec 21 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Now son, it's not socially acceptable for you to feel this way. You're going to have to bury your feelings deep down inside and learn to love being a little boy. Here, let me show you a few tricks...
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#112 Dec 21 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Gbaji is an idiot.


idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
An idiot who is somehow trapped in 1950s middle America.


Yup. Can't see past the blinders. What's the saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?
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#113 Dec 21 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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As stated earlier I've tried to explain my change to countless people and there always are those that
fail to understand or just refuse to. Many are closed minded people that you know will never accept my change
no matter how its explained. "That's just sick!" "Your insane!" are some of the normal answers. You learn to ignore the people after a while and just keep on going. Society now is more tolerant than when I was younger.
I did what I did to make myself complete. That's the best answer I can say. We all make decisions in life and
I made the one that made me complete and happy.
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#114 Dec 21 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Gbaji is an idiot.


idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
An idiot who is somehow trapped in 1950s middle America.


Yup. Can't see past the blinders. What's the saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?


I'd like to refer you to Eske's earlier post, which begins to scratch the surface of how absurd you are.

Or, by all means, you could just continue to ignore what we say and insist that we're just seeing what we want to see.
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Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

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#115 Dec 21 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Gbaji is an idiot.


idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
An idiot who is somehow trapped in 1950s middle America.


Yup. Can't see past the blinders. What's the saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?


I'd like to refer you to Eske's earlier post, which begins to scratch the surface of how absurd you are.

Or, by all means, you could just continue to ignore what we say and insist that we're just seeing what we want to see.


I don't know whether to be annoyed that he's completely ignoring my posts, or just give up and laugh.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#116 Dec 21 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Lady Jinte wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Gbaji is an idiot.


idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
An idiot who is somehow trapped in 1950s middle America.


Yup. Can't see past the blinders. What's the saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?


I'd like to refer you to Eske's earlier post, which begins to scratch the surface of how absurd you are.

Or, by all means, you could just continue to ignore what we say and insist that we're just seeing what we want to see.


I don't know whether to be annoyed that he's completely ignoring my posts, or just give up and laugh.


Well, I don't think I've ever seen him admit to being wrong, so it would probably be wise to do the latter.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

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#117 Dec 22 2011 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I don't know whether to be annoyed that he's completely ignoring my posts, or just give up and laugh.
If he ignores your posts it means he couldn't find a ***** in your argument to exploit. I wouldn't be upset about it, gbaji can be very stubborn once he has already formed an opinion. To be fair to him, since you seem to want to be, if people weren't pig piling on and painting him as a malicious bigot, as opposed to someone who just perhaps misunderstands the subject to the fullest extent, you actually might have gotten more of a dialogue with him.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#118 Dec 22 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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For most people, being ignorant is remediable. Many people actually desire to become more well-informed.

I've NEVER seen gbaji admit to a wrong opinion. If I believed that he'd be willing to actually learn, this conversation would probably be very different.

Obstinate refusal to forfeit a false belief in the light of substantial evidence, when that belief actively hurts other people, is malicious to me.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

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#119 Dec 22 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
Me, 8 hours ago, before the forum gremlins apparently ate itSmiley: mad wrote:
If gbaji doesn't repond to your posts, it's because you hit too close to home.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 6:53am by Bijou
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#120 Dec 22 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, if nothing else, I can say that I learned a lot from this thread, thanks to Jinte and Tailmon sharing so much.

Thank you two both for that.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#121 Dec 22 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Well, if nothing else, I can say that I learned a lot from this thread, thanks to Jinte and Tailmon sharing so much.

Thank you two both for that.


Definitely this. One thing that's so cool about the Trans community is how different (though eerily similar) everyone's story is. And I know sharing can be hard, so thanks for that.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

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#122 Dec 22 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Well, if nothing else, I can say that I learned a lot from this thread, thanks to Jinte and Tailmon sharing so much.

Thank you two both for that.


Your welcome and thanks for understanding. Many people don't have the courage to ask about my change but sit there wondering the how and why. I'm not afraid to talk about it and the hardships I've endured and the discrimination and harassment that came with my change. And as people know I'm not afraid to help coach you if your considering a change. The last person I've helped is on HRT now and she is doing well.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 4:27pm by Tailmon
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#123 Dec 22 2011 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Quote:
I don't know whether to be annoyed that he's completely ignoring my posts, or just give up and laugh.
If he ignores your posts it means he couldn't find a ***** in your argument to exploit. I wouldn't be upset about it, gbaji can be very stubborn once he has already formed an opinion. To be fair to him, since you seem to want to be, if people weren't pig piling on and painting him as a malicious bigot, as opposed to someone who just perhaps misunderstands the subject to the fullest extent, you actually might have gotten more of a dialogue with him.


I figured that was probably the case. It doesn't really bug me to much, since he's not turned into one of the excessively-harmful-to-human-society, foaming-at-the-mouth religious zealots that usually turn out to be who I'm talking with this stuff about.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Well, if nothing else, I can say that I learned a lot from this thread, thanks to Jinte and Tailmon sharing so much.

Thank you two both for that.


Definitely this. One thing that's so cool about the Trans community is how different (though eerily similar) everyone's story is. And I know sharing can be hard, so thanks for that.


it is a bit creepy how everyone's stories can be so different and yet sound exactly the same. In response to your thanks, I'll recommend you grab a box of tissues and read the manga Hourou Musuko. I can't read it any more, because it's too accurate and powerful, emotionally, for me. Smiley: lol

Tailmon wrote:
Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Well, if nothing else, I can say that I learned a lot from this thread, thanks to Jinte and Tailmon sharing so much.

Thank you two both for that.


Your welcome and thanks for understanding. Many people don't have the courage to ask about my change but sit there wondering the how and why. I'm not afraid to talk about it and the hardships I've endured and the discrimination and harassment that came with my change. And as people know I'm not afraid to help coach you if your considering a change. The last person I've helped is on HRT now and she is doing well.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 4:27pm by Tailmon

I can kind of understand that, most people don't really go out of their way to try and find out more, because either they're uncomfortable with it, or they don't want to make me uncomfortable talking about it. People don't seem to have much issue asking "Oh, you gonna have the surgery?" like my crotch is any of their business, though.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#124 Dec 22 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 4:27pm by Tailmon

I can kind of understand that, most people don't really go out of their way to try and find out more, because either they're uncomfortable with it, or they don't want to make me uncomfortable talking about it. People don't seem to have much issue asking "Oh, you gonna have the surgery?" like my crotch is any of their business, though. [/quote]

Biggest complaint I hear from trans peoples.

I don't get it. I would never dream of asking someone that (let alone assume that they even planned to have the surgery). But you don't have to know anything about trans issues to realize that asking a relative stranger about their genitals isn't any less rude or inappropriate than if they weren't trans.
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#125 Dec 24 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I really loved this book. The language can be a bit academic, but since Ms Serano is both a PhD biologist and a transsexual woman, it's a unique perspective and helped me understand a lot of things.

Edited, Dec 24th 2011 12:37pm by Sweetums
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#126 Dec 29 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I don't really understand why some folks are fixating on the number 3. From what I gathered in the article, she underwent therapy and was observed over the course of her entire childhood, and now that she is in her teens has decided to forge ahead with physically matching her body to her mind. No concrete decision was made at 3 years old. She was merely afforded opportunities to live in a way that was comfortable for her. Kudos to the parents for not cramming GI joe down her throat and instead letting her make her own decisions.

And holy ****, what a beautiful little girl. It's hard to look at that picture of her and her brother smiling and think she was somehow 'forced' into this change or that it's unnatural. In fact, it's hard to imagine that she actually has a ***** at all. She's certainly a much prettier and feminine looking girl than I was at her age.

I think that Gbaji's words of caution are wise, but some of his comments do border on paranoid. There's definitely some anxiety there on his part, and that's ok. Not everyone is comfortable enough with themselves to actually be accepting of others. I'm just glad that the decision wasn't his to make and was instead in the hands of smarter, stronger, and more accepting individuals.

#127 Dec 29 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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The number 3 is a great number to be outraged at. It's practically begging for it.

Edited, Dec 29th 2011 6:13pm by Uglysasquatch
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#128 Dec 29 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
I don't really understand why some folks are fixating on the number 3. From what I gathered in the article, she underwent therapy and was observed over the course of her entire childhood, and now that she is in her teens has decided to forge ahead with physically matching her body to her mind. No concrete decision was made at 3 years old. She was merely afforded opportunities to live in a way that was comfortable for her. Kudos to the parents for not cramming GI joe down her throat and instead letting her make her own decisions.

And holy sh*t, what a beautiful little girl. It's hard to look at that picture of her and her brother smiling and think she was somehow 'forced' into this change or that it's unnatural. In fact, it's hard to imagine that she actually has a ***** at all. She's certainly a much prettier and feminine looking girl than I was at her age.

I think that Gbaji's words of caution are wise, but some of his comments do border on paranoid. There's definitely some anxiety there on his part, and that's ok. Not everyone is comfortable enough with themselves to actually be accepting of others. I'm just glad that the decision wasn't his to make and was instead in the hands of smarter, stronger, and more accepting individuals.



the fixation on the number three is due to most of the research done on the matter suggesting and supporting the conclusion that a child's gender identity is cemented around 36 months of age. It's not exactly 36 for each child, but within a few months either way. Some develop sooner, some later, but typically, the range is 2 and a half to 3 and a half.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#129 Dec 29 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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So I just stumbled across an interesting article from psychology today, (go go nilatai linking TED to me finding a video about ***/gender stuff while paroosing to following a link to the lady's blog to finding an article by her), and I think this article manages to far more clearly and delicately, and more politically correctly make the same point gbaji is trying to make, but from an entirely different direction.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fetishes-i-dont-get/201012/pink-boys-puppy-dog-tails

It's a pretty interesting read, and I'm actually kind of slapping myself in the face after reading it because it reminded me about a lot of stuff I had forgotten in terms of non-gender conformity.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#130 Dec 30 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
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I think the article was pretty good in its way. Unfortunately I went through the gauntlet of being treated the wrong way by
professionals that didn't have a clue about gender dysfunction and that the rigid roles were "The Correct way." All it ended
up doing was make me worse in many ways. I actually believe it made me postpone my happiness way longer than needed. I can truly
say that sometimes the road to **** is paved with good intentions. Had my backwards thinking shrink and town had more forward thinking
professionals I would have been changed at least twenty years earlier and much happier.
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#131 Jan 08 2012 at 1:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not to revive a dead topic, but here's a related article on gendered children's clothing from the last century that brings up some interesting discussion points: everyone wore dresses as little kids until the 1940s.
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