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Bill to give FTC power to veto broadband capsFollow

#52 Jun 19 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
Maybe I shouldn't be ********* I'm reading everyone's download speeds here are around 7-10mbs and I'm getting 16-17mbs Smiley: nod
#53 Jun 19 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't be ********* I'm reading everyone's download speeds here are around 7-10mbs and I'm getting 16-17mbs Smiley: nod
Asia is still laughing at you.
#54 Jun 19 2009 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't be ********* I'm reading everyone's download speeds here are around 7-10mbs and I'm getting 16-17mbs Smiley: nod


100mbs Smiley: tongue 3203 JPY or 33 USD roughly.
#55 Jun 19 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
A real solution would be to force the cable companies to share their infrastructure, like the government did when they broke up the phone company monopolies. This is why you can get DSL through multiple parties but only one guy in an area offers cable. If the cable companies aren't up for that, then treat them like every other company running lines through the town.

Part of the problem with that is how DSL/Phone function compared to how Cable and DOCSIS standards run, The cable plants are just not set up in a way that would allow this. A set amount of data is used for cable, for VOIP, for internet and for VoD streams. Another carrier using the same lines would cause ingress on the lines impacting overall quality of both providers. Also Cable companies built out the cable plant using money from the company itself. Phone on the other hand used for the most part money from local, state and fed govt to build out, due to this it is more heavily regulated.
#56 Jun 20 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
While there's certainly limited competition to consider, I think putting a government agency "in charge" is the wrong approach. I'm not to thrilled with bandwidth caps, but I don't see how they violate any sort of "emergency service" requirement. Certainly not to the extent to which we need the government to step in. How many people rush to their computer to report a break-in, or a fire, or that they're having a heart attack? An internet connection is still a luxury, and I think we should leave the market up to coming up with the prices and rules.

Having only two major competitors does limit competition in terms of getting a "great" price, but it's sufficient to prevent "unfair" prices IMO. What I'm getting at is that while having more competitors will benefit consumers by lowering prices, you're not going to see ridiculous prices and service as long as you have two competitors.

Most areas do have at least two competitors in the market. And if a company attempts to take ridiculous advantage of being the only one, it will drive someone else to compete with them. At a minimum, every home is wired for telephone and usually cable. Certainly in any area where we'd even be worried about bandwidth restrictions, there's going to be both available. If the cable company offers broadband, but the phone company doesn't, it's a good bet that if the cable company is bad enough, the phone company will step up to take the unhappy customers away from them. Barring some wacky local regulations preventing this (or even just inhibiting it), there's no reason why both can't compete and customers can use this to prevent problems.


If such regulation is in place, the proper approach is for the folks in that locality to change their laws to remove whatever is preventing competition, not "solve" that problem with another layer of government control.


I just don't see that the need is sufficient to justify this sort of action.


Timewarner and Fios also offer phone service with their package and is a VOIP service that requires a internet connection to make a phone call. From what I have seen one of the things that will happen if you go over your allowance is your internet will be shut off. Not that they throttling, they are turning off, and without a phone service that required your isp for the internet to VOIP, this is now a life threatening situation if you are unable to call 911 in an emergency because you dl a movie. More than just your computer use the internet, although other appliances outside of phone and settop box movie streamers are much more minimal.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 10:47am by shibaaa
#57 Jun 20 2009 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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shibaaa wrote:

Timewarner and Fios also offer phone service with their package and is a VOIP service that requires a internet connection to make a phone call. From what I have seen one of the things that will happen if you go over your allowance is your internet will be shut off. Not that they throttling, they are turning off, and without a phone service that required your isp for the internet to VOIP, this is now a life threatening situation if you are unable to call 911 in an emergency because you dl a movie. More than just your computer use the internet, although other appliances outside of phone and settop box movie streamers are much more minimal.

TW does have caps but the VoIP is NOT dependent on your internet working, they use an EMTA which is a voip modem and a cable modem built into one, the carrier feed for the phone though on same line is NOT linked to your bandwidth consumption. Though if you do lose a connection from a downed line yeah your services will drop out.

FiOS doesn't have caps so this is a moot point.

Oh and BTW VoIP is a non-regulated service in the US, if you have someone with a need for uptime it is still suggested to have a POTS line setup as well, even if you have no services with an ILEC they are required by federal regulation to keep 911 services activated, same as with all cell phones.
#58 Jun 23 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Default
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The start-up costs to install in the existing areas would be magnitudes greater than it was to install originally.


We started our communication department 7 years ago, and have less than $3m invested in the network configuration, and have been profitable since year 1.

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Every road in the area would need to be bored under to install the sleeves and cable which everyone else got in before the pavement was laid. Every house would have their front roadside easements torn up, trenched (try not to hit the other wires & pipes!), laid with cable, regraded and reseeded/sodded.


Most cable is aerial, (there is a pole attachment charge if you go aerial) underground cabling in the city is usually done using directional boring with direct bury cable. In unpopulated areas trenching is preferable but it's not much cheaper.

Call an 800 number and get all existing underground equipment located, free.

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The cable company got it all in when the lot was nothing but a sheet of rough graded dirt.


Most companies don't bother to pull cable prior to construction, they just burrow under or cut thru existing right of ways.

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A real solution would be to force the cable companies to share their infrastructure, like the government did when they broke up the phone company monopolies. This is why you can get DSL through multiple parties but only one guy in an area offers cable. If the cable companies aren't up for that, then treat them like every other company running lines through the town.


So your saying that we spent the time and money to install 200 miles of fiber optic cable, construct a self healing redundant path all fiber network, to create a faster more reliable system then the competition. And you think we should then be forced to let the competition use it for free?

<---Lead Fiber Optic Technician.


Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 10:13am by Ttial
#59 Jun 23 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Take out the leading slash in your opening quotes.

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#60 Jun 23 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks, I'm new to posting.

Please don't hurt me.
#61 Jun 23 2009 at 6:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just fix it! Smiley: mad

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#62 Jun 23 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ttial wrote:
Most cable is aerial, (there is a pole attachment charge if you go aerial) underground cabling in the city is usually done using directional boring with direct bury cable. In unpopulated areas trenching is preferable but it's not much cheaper.
Maybe around you its all aerial. Around here, the cable is mostly buried (at least through the residental/commercial areas). I call in utility locates on a regular basis.
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Most companies don't bother to pull cable prior to construction, they just burrow under or cut thru existing right of ways.
Again, local experience differs from yours. Utility installation (including cable) is done before the site is finished and certainly before concrete & asphalt work is done.
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So your saying that we spent the time and money to install 200 miles of fiber optic cable, construct a self healing redundant path all fiber network, to create a faster more reliable system then the competition. And you think we should then be forced to let the competition use it for free?
Not especially. I'm more than happy to have it regulated like any other regional monopoly instead.

The status where it goes largely unregulated and without competition is what I'd like to see changed. If the cable company wants to cry big crocodile tears about it, I'll be over here, not giving a sh*t.

That said, I'll happily admit that my previous statements were based off local experience and may not hold up nationally.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 10:23am by Jophiel
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#63 Jun 23 2009 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the larger point though is that this is a federal solution to what is ultimately a local problem. In some areas, there isn't sufficient competition. But that's not because the federal government prevents competition, but because the local municipality has created legislation/regulation making it more difficult to compete. The solution if you live in such an area is to go to your city council and demand changes. It is *not* to go to the federal government and grant them broad and sweeping powers to prevent companies from taking advantage of said competitive advantages.


Where I live, the phone company and the cable company compete very heavily for TV, phone, and internet service. TW Cable doesn't impose bandwidth caps here, or even consider it exactly because AT&T's Uverse would stomp them into oblivion if they did. If the problem is that you don't have a competing service where you live, that's a problem where you live. Solve it there where your voice has the most power to enact change.


IMO, this is a solution in search of a problem.
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#64 Jun 23 2009 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
I think the larger point though is that this is a federal solution to what is ultimately a local problem. In some areas, there isn't sufficient competition. But that's not because the federal government prevents competition, but because the local municipality has created legislation/regulation making it more difficult to compete. The solution if you live in such an area is to go to your city council and demand changes. It is *not* to go to the federal government and grant them broad and sweeping powers to prevent companies from taking advantage of said competitive advantages.


It becomes a federal problem when company ownership and consequently, business practices, cross state lines. The problem is widespread and beyond the reach of local authority to deal with on a large scale. It is for this reason that federal legislation is a plausible solution to the problem.
#65 Jun 23 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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The Great BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I think the larger point though is that this is a federal solution to what is ultimately a local problem. In some areas, there isn't sufficient competition. But that's not because the federal government prevents competition, but because the local municipality has created legislation/regulation making it more difficult to compete. The solution if you live in such an area is to go to your city council and demand changes. It is *not* to go to the federal government and grant them broad and sweeping powers to prevent companies from taking advantage of said competitive advantages.


It becomes a federal problem when company ownership and consequently, business practices, cross state lines. The problem is widespread and beyond the reach of local authority to deal with on a large scale. It is for this reason that federal legislation is a plausible solution to the problem.


The competitive issues are purely local though. The fact that TW Cable in one area can impose tighter usage requirements due to a lack of local competition doesn't change the fact that it can't do this in an area where there is local competition. It's the same company, but its practices will change based on the local conditions in any given area. If those local conditions aren't suited to fair competition, then that is problem with the local conditions.

Attempting to "solve" this at the federal level is a mistake. The problem isn't with the company, it's with a local municipality creating licensing and usage rules which prevent fair competition. If you live in such an area, why not go to your city council instead of going to the federal government? They're the ones who've created the problem. Fix it there. I don't see why this is even an issue to consider.
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#66 Jun 23 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If you live in such an area, why not go to your city council instead of going to the federal government?
Technically, I'm not going to anyone. I'm just not getting upset over the notion of federal (or state or even local) oversight. I haven't heard a good reason yet to start getting upset, either.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#67 Jun 23 2009 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If you live in such an area, why not go to your city council instead of going to the federal government?
Technically, I'm not going to anyone. I'm just not getting upset over the notion of federal (or state or even local) oversight. I haven't heard a good reason yet to start getting upset, either.


It does bother me, and presumably most conservatives as well. So. If you don't care, and we do, that means we win! Yay!!!


Or are you actually arguing we should do something just because it doesn't bother you if we do? Cause that's kinda silly...
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#68 Jun 23 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It does bother me, and presumably most conservatives as well. So. If you don't care, and we do, that means we win! Yay!!!
Sure. Turn that into a legislative win and you're in business. Maybe you will. Maybe not. Given the embryonic nature of the this legislation, who knows? It'll probably wither in committee like most bills.
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Or are you actually arguing we should do something just because it doesn't bother you if we do? Cause that's kinda silly...
No, I'm arguing that I don't care if they do it. If I thought with great conviction that they should do it, I'd be writing to my Congresscritters or sending a check to a PAC or something.

On the other hand, if you want me to oppose, you're going to need a much better reason than "we shouldn't".
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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