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Bill to give FTC power to veto broadband capsFollow

#27 Jun 19 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Pensive wrote:
You are totally free and able to generate heat in a fireplace


Maybe we should regulate the firewood industry too then.


If building a dam was as easy as chopping down a small tree, you'd almost have a point.

I will say that, though I may be wrong, the last time this discussion of bandwidth caps came up, I thought that comcast was setting a 200GB limit per month, which is pretty damn high. Did that change?
#28 Jun 19 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
Pensive wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
Pensive wrote:
You are totally free and able to generate heat in a fireplace


Maybe we should regulate the firewood industry too then.


If building a dam was as easy as chopping down a small tree, you'd almost have a point.

I will say that, though I may be wrong, the last time this discussion of bandwidth caps came up, I thought that comcast was setting a 200GB limit per month, which is pretty damn high. Did that change?


This bill was created as a result of Time Warner wanting to impose it's caps, which are much smaller, and tiered. The absolute max you could get I believe was something like 40gb, which a couple of netflix streamed movies would eat through.

They have since backed off that plan, but the damage was done.
#29 Jun 19 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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My ISP is capped at 60GB. If I go above that I have to pay a surcharge up to a max of $25.00 above my normal bill.

I get a consistent 7mbs. I can pay a little extra for even higher speed and 100GB/mth, but there's really not much you can't do with 7mbs and 60GB. It is very difficult to burn through that cap. It took me 2 weeks going full bore when I tried. When I don't try I'm in the 8-15GB range and even that's high compared to most people.

I don't think these caps are really that big of an issue. It only effects a very small portion of the customer base. You don't regulate a luxury industry over a business decision that may **** off a very small percentage of the companies own customers. It's ludicrous.

The best is the argument of treating it like a utility. Your utility bill is based on your usage for the month...it is running like a utility.
#30 Jun 19 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
Yodabunny wrote:
My ISP is capped at 60GB. If I go above that I have to pay a surcharge up to a max of $25.00 above my normal bill.

I get a consistent 7mbs. I can pay a little extra for even higher speed and 100GB/mth, but there's really not much you can't do with 7mbs and 60GB. It is very difficult to burn through that cap. It took me 2 weeks going full bore when I tried. When I don't try I'm in the 8-15GB range and even that's high compared to most people.

I don't think these caps are really that big of an issue. It only effects a very small portion of the customer base. You don't regulate a luxury industry over a business decision that may **** off a very small percentage of the companies own customers. It's ludicrous.

The best is the argument of treating it like a utility. Your utility bill is based on your usage for the month...it is running like a utility.


Do you have Netflix? Do you stream HD video from their library 3-5 times a week?
#31 Jun 19 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
Yodabunny wrote:
but there's really not much you can't do with 7mbs and 60GB. It is very difficult to burn through that cap. It took me 2 weeks going full bore when I tried.


Obvious comment is Obvious, but what is sufficient now will not be in the future. The cable companies are looking to create "reasonable" caps now, in order to benefit from them later.

Relevant quote is Relevant:

Bill Gates, in 1981 wrote:
640K ought to be enough for anybody.

#32 Jun 19 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Your utility bill is based on your usage for the month...it is running like a utility.
My natural gas bill was around $120 in February. It was $20 for the last month. Guess why.

When my ISP bill is only $5 for a month where I only checked e-mail and casually browsed the net, I'll say that it's being run like a utility. Charging a flat rate with penalties for going over isn't "running it like a utility".
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#33 Jun 19 2009 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Yodabunny wrote:
Your utility bill is based on your usage for the month...it is running like a utility.
My natural gas bill was around $120 in February. It was $20 for the last month. Guess why.

When my ISP bill is only $5 for a month where I only checked e-mail and casually browsed the net, I'll say that it's being run like a utility. Charging a flat rate with penalties for going over isn't "running it like a utility".


Lots of services have a minimum monthly bill with increasing costs on higher use. Hydro for example, I could flip my breaker for the month and I'd still get a bill. This is no different.
#34 Jun 19 2009 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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If your base electric bill is in excess of $100 before you even flip the lights on, it's time to move to a new location.

It is different exactly because of the scale involved. If the ISP was charging a base $15 a month with a charge for usage (adjusted for peak periods, yadda yadda) they might be comparable. They're not.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 1:10pm by Jophiel
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#35 Jun 19 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Do you have Netflix? Do you stream HD video from their library 3-5 times a week?


No, but if you need that level of service I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to charge you more than the guy who checks his email twice a month for providing it. I DEFINATELY don't see why the government should be able to tell them not to.

I can rent a cheap car, but if I need to move a couch a car's just not going to do it, I have to spend more and rent a truck. The system you want forces everyone to rent the truck. If I don't like that rental companies prices I can go to another rental company, if it's the only rental company in town, well, I either suck it up or I don't rent a vehicle.

It is not the governments job to tell a company what service level to provide or what price to charge for it.
#36 Jun 19 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
It is different exactly because of the scale involved.


How so? You're paying $50.00 base cost with usage charges for anything over the base amount that comes with it. Scale has nothing to do with it. It's a valid business model, it doesn't hurt anyone. Heck, it's exactly how cell phone plans work.
#37 Jun 19 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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The primary difference here is that the cable company is the only game in town because the government allowed it to be that way through giving them access to utility easements and other line rights. The gas company or electric company or whoever is allowed to operate as a monopoly through land usage in an area because they give up part of their corporate freedom. Cable companies get the same land usage privileges allowing them de facto monopoly status (since no one else can just lay down the infrastructure to compete) and yet are mysteriously exempt from the same controls the government places upon everyone else using that same land.
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#38 Jun 19 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Lots of services have a minimum monthly bill with increasing costs on higher use.


Well that's ******* retarded. It's only slightly less retarded than HMOs who require human child sacrifices to appease their coverage and then pay out stupidly low maximums for any medical procedure of note. It's only slightly less retarded and not equally so because medical procedures are of a greater need than utilities.
#39 Jun 19 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Heck, it's exactly how cell phone plans work.
Cell phone plans have much more legitimate competition.
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#40 Jun 19 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
The primary difference here is that the cable company is the only game in town because the government allowed it to be that way through giving them access to utility easements and other line rights. The gas company or electric company or whoever is allowed to operate as a monopoly through land usage in an area because they give up part of their corporate freedom. Cable companies get the same land usage privileges allowing them de facto monopoly status (since no one else can just lay down the infrastructure to compete) and yet are mysteriously exempt from the same controls the government places upon everyone else using that same land.


This is a valid argument. The solution to which is to fix this: "no one else can just lay down the infrastructure to compete". Allow other companies to install infrastructure (within reasonable guidelines obviously) and you now have an environment where companies compete while upgrading infrastructure.
#41 Jun 19 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
Yodabunny wrote:
Wint wrote:
Do you have Netflix? Do you stream HD video from their library 3-5 times a week?


No, but if you need that level of service I see no reason why a company shouldn't be able to charge you more than the guy who checks his email twice a month for providing it. I DEFINATELY don't see why the government should be able to tell them not to.

I can rent a cheap car, but if I need to move a couch a car's just not going to do it, I have to spend more and rent a truck. The system you want forces everyone to rent the truck. If I don't like that rental companies prices I can go to another rental company, if it's the only rental company in town, well, I either suck it up or I don't rent a vehicle.

It is not the governments job to tell a company what service level to provide or what price to charge for it.


The guy who needs to check email twice a month doesn't need broadband, dial up will do fine for him. They advertise their lightning fast speeds, "Download movies at a click of a button!!!oOMG1", etc. Yet they want to penalize me for doing what they are advertising I can do with my connection I pay for?
#42 Jun 19 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
They advertise their lightning fast speeds, "Download movies at a click of a button!!!oOMG1", etc. Yet they want to penalize me for doing what they are advertising I can do with my connection I pay for?


You can download movies at the click of a button, in fact even with caps you can download many movies. They give you exactly what they're advertising. If there's a specific instance you can point out I'll agree with you that it's false advertising, but that has nothing to do with regulating the industry.
#43 Jun 19 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
The solution to which is to fix this: "no one else can just lay down the infrastructure to compete".
The start-up costs to install in the existing areas would be magnitudes greater than it was to install originally. Every road in the area would need to be bored under to install the sleeves and cable which everyone else got in before the pavement was laid. Every house would have their front roadside easements torn up, trenched (try not to hit the other wires & pipes!), laid with cable, regraded and reseeded/sodded. The cable company got it all in when the lot was nothing but a sheet of rough graded dirt.

A real solution would be to force the cable companies to share their infrastructure, like the government did when they broke up the phone company monopolies. This is why you can get DSL through multiple parties but only one guy in an area offers cable. If the cable companies aren't up for that, then treat them like every other company running lines through the town.
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#44 Jun 19 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
The guy who needs to check email twice a month doesn't need broadband, dial up will do fine for him.


Lol, I don't think you can even get dial up here anymore.
#45 Jun 19 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
Yodabunny wrote:
Wint wrote:
The guy who needs to check email twice a month doesn't need broadband, dial up will do fine for him.


Lol, I don't think you can even get dial up here anymore.


We still have several dialup providers here Smiley: smile In fact, I've fixed PC's for several people who were still on dialup. That was a shock, trying to connect to the internet and hearing the modem go off Smiley: laugh
#46 Jun 19 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
A real solution would be to force the cable companies to share their infrastructure, like the government did when they broke up the phone company monopolies. This is why you can get DSL through multiple parties but only one guy in an area offers cable. If the cable companies aren't up for that, then treat them like every other company running lines through the town.


I actually almost put that solution in my previous post. That's how it was handled up here. Worked quite well actually and is reasonable considering the cables are mostly on government owned land.
#47 Jun 19 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
I wanted to add that I just don't think you have the perspective I do. There are areas of my state that until very recently didn't even have electricity much less phone lines or cable service. When I signed up for Road Runner, I was in the beta group for Lincoln, and it was $50 a month 6 years ago. Guess how much it is now? $65. Speed has increased marginally from where it started, yet my monthly costs have gone up $15.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 1:53pm by Wint
#48 Jun 19 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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My internet has gone from $45-58 in the last 5 years. Though we did have one speed increase. My wife's grandparents only got electricity hookups on their road a couple years ago.

We are one of the most heavily cabled countries in the world though.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 2:58pm by Yodabunny
#49 Jun 19 2009 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
Well that separates you from us then Smiley: laugh
#50 Jun 19 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
Your prices sound awful. We don't have limits like that as far as I know, and last time I checked cable Internet was like €20 a month.

Cable TV is €5 a month for the standard 40 or so channels, plus €2 I think for every additional channel, so it's fair, haha.
#51 Jun 19 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
Wint wrote:
I wanted to add that I just don't think you have the perspective I do. There are areas of my state that until very recently didn't even have electricity much less phone lines or cable service. When I signed up for Road Runner, I was in the beta group for Lincoln, and it was $50 a month 6 years ago. Guess how much it is now? $65. Speed has increased marginally from where it started, yet my monthly costs have gone up $15.



Just want to point out that as of a call to Charter last week, my speeds have doubled (5 to 10Mb) for a whopping $5.50 increase to $55.49 / month.

I'm still in favor of regulation, but Charter is definitely starting to look more customer-friendly these days. Maybe that whole bankruptcy thing is changing some perspective within the company.
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