New Rule:Follow

But now that you're here you got it straightened out.

Are you calling me a mangirl? THAT might make me cry, Nixy.

The lady down the road got nobbled the other day for fraudulently claiming benefits. She was claiming as living alone with her 5 year old son, but in reality her husband ( a well paid security guard, who recently got sacked for nicking booze from work and flogging it on ) was living there, HE was paying the rent, and her 22 year old son was also living there contributing to the bills .

Not only that, she was cleaming disability --- for alcoholism. Apparently, it's an illness, and they give you money to actually GET booze so you don't get the shakes .

She's in big doo-doo now, and she's spent the last few days banging on doors, wanting to know who snitched up her hubby for nicking from work, and who snitched her for benefit fraud . Funnily enough, was my ex who did her husband for nicking from work, and he got a nice 10k out of it.

A guy got 10,000 to do another guy. Kinda makes you wanna turn gay, huh?

How about both?

Two completely different things.

And it's this mentality. I get tired of when I don't hate and resent people on welfare there is this type of accusation. I agree with Allegory and I lived in a welfare neighborhood for 17 years and I worked hard and got a full scholarship to college. Part of the reason I went into social work is trying to give back on some symbolic level to my neighborhood.

I think for those who really need it there are 5 that are already on it that are abusing it. When did cell phones become a necessity? When did internet, hair dye or text messaging? I grew up without a phone, I turned out just fine.

I saw the same **** that you guys did my entire childhood. I still have members of my immediate family on government aid. I really think that the problem-- in general-- is that we're so programmed to blame and resent the poor for all the problems that this kind of negative view of them is widespread. It's socially regressive though--because by making being poor a moral failing, we have failed to focus on the problems of the increased stratification of wealth in this country and the realities is that nationally, our real money income has fallen for over 40 years. We don't as a country collectively look at how international corporations and the greed of the wealthiest 1%, who for the first time since the 19th century, own the vast majority of the wealth in the country. We are too distracted about demonizing the poor or being pissed off at unions or whatever.

This type of **** gets in the way of any real broad coalitions that would focus on addressing the problems of poverty. As the economy gets worse, the problems of the current economy is going to be increasingly everyone's issue.

Annabella,

Its a little different in England. I am from a working class family and in the area I grew up there were people who's entire aim in life was to live off the state. They would become pregnant to gain a council flat and fleece the state for every penny, wasting it on goods and services they did not need that gained them nothing of value in life.

There is also a known issue with people being trapped in a poverty trap. Once in it, it is hard to leave. There are known case studies where single parents (mainly mothers) have been trapped in the situation of being better off being on income support than working. By not working and living on the state, council tax and other bills are covered. The moment they start work, that means trying to pay bills and childcare on minimum wage with more additional bills! Insanity! There is no motivation to even try to return to work unless you earn a particular salary and that is not always possible.

So there are two issues. One is the sub culture of those who have only known living off the state. The other are those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in the position of having to live off the state as they gain too little support to return to full time work.

My perspective is that for those that wish to work, we should give financial aid to make work PAY and not penalise them in suddenly asking for all tax bills to be paid. Someone not claiming benefit and working in a part time job is better for their long term employability and also for the state (even if they do not pay some taxes). I have so much time and gladly pay my taxes for people who try to work.

Benefits do not stop in England. We have too many people now on "disability" benefit when the real disability is just being unwilling to work. The problem with "disability" is that once on that kind of benefit an employer will be loathe to employ you.

I have no time for those who do never seek to work who could work. They should not be entitled to my tax pounds

I know you probably think I am very right wing and a Thatcher child but I am actually a socialist at heart. I just do not beleive that people should be allowed to abuse a safety net put there for people in need, not those who are workshy. The more people abusing those benefits will mean less money available for those who truly need it

I dont know how it works in the US but, do you have programs for those on welfare to: offer formation and education to get a good job; help people seek a job that fits them with compatibility tests; constant check ups on beneficiaries to make sure they are actively participating in getting that job; etc.?
New tools and help are always better than just handing people a check. Teach a man to fish and all that.

Certainly, it should never be worse to work than not to. I think that, in general, taxation and such needs to be more of a smooth transition than a series of harsh drops.

Here, all benefits (except disability) are bound to making an effort to improve one's situation. That usually means that you need to apply to jobs/schools -- it is of course easy to just turn up to job interviews drunk and such ***** -- and if you don't find anything, you'll end up with a "€1.50 job" in addition to your benefits, and those jobs usually suck.

Anyhow, if you don't make some sort of effort, benefits get cut (usually by 30% each time). That does of course only lead to getting money under the table or whatever in turn.

I think this system is good. If you make things harder for the leeches, they will also get harder for the people who honestly want to start working again. Maybe the job centres/welfare offices should employ precogs.


On a side note, I'm currently sort of glad that my benefits are too low to live off them, period. Talk about the kick in the a$$ I needed.

It's also telling to compare the US Republicans and conservative parties* over here (which are really just Labour/Social Democrats in a different colour).
Just sayin'.
*Granted, the German Republicans are farther right than their American counterpart, but no one ever votes for them.