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presidential debate? or glorified stump speach?Follow

#1 Sep 25 2004 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
the rules for the upcoming presidential debate:

neither party can address the other directly.

all questions must be submitted in advance.

neither party can ask a direct question.

all press personel must sign an agreement to limit questions to the material presented by the parties.


who wins?

the chicken sheit lobbiest puppets running for the top office in this country.

who looses?

YOU. you will walk away gaining no more information than a party press release would allow you to get.

two hours dedicated to lobbiest puppets spitting out stump speaches, only you dont have to change channels to see both saturate you with thier propaganda.

this is how the most powerfull country in the world elects its leader.

the rest of the world is laughing AT US, not with us.
#2 Sep 25 2004 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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6,158 posts
Let them laugh, we have special technology so we can see them in their undies, then we'll be the ones laughing! Hehe.
#3 Sep 27 2004 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
we have special technology so we can see them in their undies,
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my mom wears allunimum foil on her wrists to keep big brother from using satilites to identify her from space.

mabe you two are from the same club?

or mabe the rest of us are missing some important information?

either way, something needs to change in a big, fundamental way with the way we choose a leader. only in America can you be illiterate and still be the leader of the most powerfull country in the world.

otherwise, we can only assume this type of creep DOES represent the majority in our country. :mentally pictures a super big trailer park with "welcome to amerka" on a banner at the entrance.

/shiver
#4 Sep 27 2004 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
I suggest we start with spelling and capitalization.

Why is it that someone who is criticizing the platform for the Presidential debates can't spell 'loses' or capitalize the first word in a sentence?


Shouldn't you be spending a little more time hitting the books and prying the tinfoil of your mother's wrists so we can find her?
#5 Sep 28 2004 at 7:20 PM Rating: Default
Why is it that someone who is criticizing the platform for the Presidential debates can't spell 'loses' or capitalize the first word in a sentence?


Shouldn't you be spending a little more time hitting the books and prying the tinfoil of your mother's wrists so we can find her?
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if the president of the united states of america can be illiterate, so can i.
#6 Sep 28 2004 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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4,512 posts
shadowrelm wrote:
Why is it that someone who is criticizing the platform for the Presidential debates can't spell 'loses' or capitalize the first word in a sentence?


Shouldn't you be spending a little more time hitting the books and prying the tinfoil of your mother's wrists so we can find her?
--------------------------------------------------------------

if the president of the united states of america can be illiterate, so can i.


I think the President knows when to capitalize.
#7 Sep 29 2004 at 7:49 AM Rating: Default
Georgie boy can read and write. Therefor, he is not illeterate.


shadowrelm wrote:
if the president of the united states of america can be illiterate, so can i.


Ohhhh, two wrongs do make a right!

Don't make excuses for your own inadequecies. If you care so little about your readers' perception of you (especially on some little gaming website), then why bother posting about something you feel is important at all? Whose mind do you think you are going to change by posting your poorly thought out, misspelled, grammatically incorrect little bit of propoganda when you can't even take the time to address us as literate adults?

Just because you believe the president to be illiterate doesn't mean the rest of the nation is by proxy. And, just because you believe the president is illiterate certainly does not give you an excuse to be.

Like I'm ever going to take someone seriously who misspells speech twice in a row.
#8 Sep 29 2004 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
illeterate

Smiley: lol
#9 Sep 29 2004 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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I've always though these sorts of debates are a joke. Pre-submitting questions so the candidate can have a press release answer ready and won't be caught off guard by any real questions is hardly a measure of their knowledge and stance on an issue. Let the questions come freely and let the public see if Kerry and Bush actually know an answer instead of what their trainers told them to say.

It doesn't have to be a free-for-all.. the organization holding the debate could easily pre-screen the questions without telling the candidates in advance what the questions are.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Sep 29 2004 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
In case there's a single soul who HASN'T already seen it:

http://www.frontsteps.com/details.php?id=107
#11 Sep 29 2004 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
"Shadowrelm" wrote:
my mom wears allunimum foil on her wrists to keep big brother from using satilites to identify her from space.


Genetics is such an interesting subject...
#12 Sep 29 2004 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
I've always though these sorts of debates are a joke. Pre-submitting questions so the candidate can have a press release answer ready and won't be caught off guard by any real questions is hardly a measure of their knowledge and stance on an issue.
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i agree.

the league of women voters used to run the debate fairly. there were no shouting matches, and the public actually learned a bit about the candidiates, especially some of the details for what they claim they will do.

the current debates are nothing more than pre packedged stump speaches mutually designed to deliver a vague party agenda in short sound bytes your average trailer park resident might actually retain for a few days till election time.

both candidates will be spitting out one liners, like tossing a plate of spegetti on the wall, and hope some of it sticks, without having to give any details of the packaged lies they claim they will do for us once elected.

it is a travasty to even call it a debate.

they found a way to CONTROLL the media we use to make our decisions. just like the "embeded jorunalist" during the gulf war. "here, sit on this tank and take al the pictures you want. sign this first, it is just a standard release of liability form with some small concessions.....like you cant report ANYTHING unless we ok it first.....and what not"

we, the people, have NO WAY to make an informed decision as to who will lead this country any more. you either vote a party line, or dont vote.

luckily, Bush has made the decision easy for alot of us. the majority of the free world and half of america all agree on one thing. another 4 years of Bush is the WORST choice reguardless of what we know or do not know about Kerry.

we really have no way to judge Kerry, but we have 4 years of lies, deciet, ignorance, and needless killing to judge Bush by.
#13 Sep 30 2004 at 8:34 AM Rating: Default
shadowrelm wrote:
we really have no way to judge Kerry,


Actually, we do. We can look at his voting history. We can listen to his interviews, such as this one:

Quote:
DIANE SAWYER: Was the war in Iraq worth it?

JOHN KERRY: We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today.

DS: So it was not worth it.

JK: We should not — it depends on the outcome ultimately — and that depends on the leadership. And we need better leadership to get the job done successfully, but I would not have gone to war knowing that there was no imminent threat — there were no weapons of mass destruction — there was no connection of Al Qaeda — to Saddam Hussein! The president misled the American people — plain and simple. Bottom line.

DS: So if it turns out okay, it was worth it?

JK: No.

DS: But right now it wasn't [ … ? … ]--

JK: It was a mistake to do what he did, but we have to succeed now that we've done what he's — I mean look — we have to succeed. But was it worth — as you asked the question — $200 billion and taking the focus off of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? That's the question. The test of the presidency was whether or not you should have gone to war to get rid of him. I think, had the inspectors continued, had we done other things — there were plenty of ways to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.

DS: But no way to get rid of him.

JK: Oh, sure there were. Oh, yes there were. Absolutely.

DS: So you're saying that today, even if Saddam Hussein were in power today it would be a better thing — you would prefer that . . .

JK: No, I would not prefer that. And Diane — don't twist here.


Can you even tell what he's trying to say here? I sure as hell can't. And this is just one example of many interviews where he can't just come right out with a straight answer. Sure, it's a tough question. But someone runnning for the highest office of the most powerful nation in the country should be able to come up with a more clear and direct answer than this, don't you think?

If you weren't so blinded by your hatred for Bush, you'd be able to see the many ways to judge whether Kerry is actually fit to take office or not. Your concern isn't whether Kerry is the right man for the job or not, you're only concern is that he isn't Bush. That's simply not enough. Being willing to "settle" is a cop out.

Give me reasons why Kerry should be president, besides the tired old addage of "he's not Bush", and then perhaps I'll listen. I'm betting that you can't.

#14 Sep 30 2004 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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3,571 posts
Shaedii wrote:
shadowrelm wrote:
we really have no way to judge Kerry,


Actually, we do. We can look at his voting history. We can listen to his interviews, such as this one:

Quote:
DIANE SAWYER: Was the war in Iraq worth it?

JOHN KERRY: We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today.

DS: So it was not worth it.

JK: We should not — it depends on the outcome ultimately — and that depends on the leadership. And we need better leadership to get the job done successfully, but I would not have gone to war knowing that there was no imminent threat — there were no weapons of mass destruction — there was no connection of Al Qaeda — to Saddam Hussein! The president misled the American people — plain and simple. Bottom line.

DS: So if it turns out okay, it was worth it?

JK: No.

DS: But right now it wasn't [ … ? … ]--

JK: It was a mistake to do what he did, but we have to succeed now that we've done what he's — I mean look — we have to succeed. But was it worth — as you asked the question — $200 billion and taking the focus off of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? That's the question. The test of the presidency was whether or not you should have gone to war to get rid of him. I think, had the inspectors continued, had we done other things — there were plenty of ways to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.

DS: But no way to get rid of him.

JK: Oh, sure there were. Oh, yes there were. Absolutely.

DS: So you're saying that today, even if Saddam Hussein were in power today it would be a better thing — you would prefer that . . .

JK: No, I would not prefer that. And Diane — don't twist here.


Can you even tell what he's trying to say here? I sure as hell can't. And this is just one example of many interviews where he can't just come right out with a straight answer. Sure, it's a tough question. But someone runnning for the highest office of the most powerful nation in the country should be able to come up with a more clear and direct answer than this, don't you think?

If you weren't so blinded by your hatred for Bush, you'd be able to see the many ways to judge whether Kerry is actually fit to take office or not. Your concern isn't whether Kerry is the right man for the job or not, you're only concern is that he isn't Bush. That's simply not enough. Being willing to "settle" is a cop out.

Give me reasons why Kerry should be president, besides the tired old addage of "he's not Bush", and then perhaps I'll listen. I'm betting that you can't.



Yes, I do know what Kerry is saying.

He's saying that we wouldn't have gone if we had all of the information, and that there were better ways to handle it than a war. Saddam could be neutralized in many ways, and war was the least cost effective and caused the most loss of human life. He's saying now that it's been started, we have to finish it.


As for you people ranting about how people are going to vote for Kerry because he's not Bush.... So what? They want to do it, so let them. I can tell you that your "Not being Bush isn't a reason to vote for him" rants aren't going to affect their opinion.


I see it as a perfectly valid reason to vote for Kerry, though I will be voting for him because of what I know about the man.
#15 Sep 30 2004 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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He's saying that the focus of the "war on terrorism" should have remained firmly on Afghanistan and Al'Qeada instead of spilling into a war based on faulty intelligence and no connection to 9/11.

Diane tries to turn that into "So you'd like it if Saddam was still in power?" which is a loaded question. Most people agree that Saddam being out of power is, on the surface, a good thing. What they disagree on was the means and the planning that went into it (or failed to go into it) leaving us with a thinnly extended military, suspected WMD sites completely plundered and wiped clean by looters and insurgents, a host of civil issues in Iraq, an expansion of terrorist camps into Iraq and we're not a day closer to finding Osama bin Laden (if you remember him). People who can only see those issues as "You want Saddam back in power you America hater!" are scary.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#16 Sep 30 2004 at 9:01 AM Rating: Default
Well, of course Dianne is spinning. She's part of the Big Media and that's what they do. My point is not to rehash the debate over the war in Iraq. My point is, Kerry can't answer the initial question at all.

If you can answer the question so well and so quickly, why can't the man who wants to be president?

Quote:
He's saying that the focus of the "war on terrorism" should have remained firmly on Afghanistan and Al'Qeada instead of spilling into a war based on faulty intelligence and no connection to 9/11.


Then why didn't he just say that? See where I'm going here?
#17 Sep 30 2004 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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He did answer it. I just told you what he said in his answer. I didn't make up my condensed version out of nothing.

No matter what, you can't answer her first question "Was the war in Iraq worth it?" with a concise yes or no. You say "no" and you're a Saddam loving terrorist. You say "yes" and people act as if it invalidates any criticisms you may have about it and keep saying "But you said on May 16th that the war was worth it! You're a flip-flopper!!" So Kerry attempted to avoid the loaded question and give a real answer about his feelings on the war. You'd be a fool to answer "Was the war in Iraq worth it?" or "Would you prefer Saddam was in power today?" with any sort of short, direct answer.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#18 Sep 30 2004 at 9:31 AM Rating: Default
No, he did not answer it the way you did. He inferred that the president knew at the time that: 1. there was faulty intelligence, 2. there was no immenant threat, 3. there were and are no WMD's,(when the entire UN agreed that there were) and 4. that there were no Iraqi links to Al Queda. He says he would not have gone to war knowing these things, but at the time we went to war nobody knew these things and some of them are still unkown.

The president did not know these things at the time, so Kerry's whole statement is irrelevant. Kerry plainly says, "We should not have gone to war knowing the information that we know today." He says nothing about whether we should have gone to war knowing what we knew then.

He doesn't mention what he would have done, which is the important point. He only states he would not have done what Bush did, which is a cop out.

He's not giving real answers at all.

Quote:
I think, had the inspectors continued, had we done other things — there were plenty of ways to keep the pressure on Saddam Hussein.


Like WHAT?? He doesn't know. He just knows what it's not. Yeah, thanks for the enlightenment, Mr. Kerry.
#19 Sep 30 2004 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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The woman was badgering him for a yes/no on "Should Saddam be in power?". You honestly think she would have leaned back, lit up a smoke and hoped the folks at home didn't reach for the remote as Kerry launched into a sixteen point plan for isolating and eliminating Saddam?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#20 Sep 30 2004 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
"was the war in Iraq worth it?"

That's the initial question. He led her to the other questions with his answers. The last question was one she shouldn't have asked, because it's misleading, but to be completely honest had he answered the first question even remotely reasonably, the questioning wouldn't have come to that.

His answer says absolutely nothing. You can infer from it whatever you want, which is the whole point of his ambiguous answer. That's why he's so vague. He doesn't want to take a side at all, yet wants to appear as if he is.

That's Kerry.

I, and I'm sure many other Americans, would like to know what kind of action he would have taken at the time, or at least what kind of action (if any) he plans on taking if he gets into office. I would have loved to listen to a 16 point plan for eliminating Saddam. That's the point of the interview, is it not?

He's still basically saying "I'm not Bush," and I'm saying that ain't enough. Tell me why not being Bush is such a great thing and I'll listen. I honestly would like to know.

But, Kerry doesn't even know why it's a good thing, he just knows it's what a potion of the voters wants to hear.
#21 Sep 30 2004 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I would have loved to listen to a 16 point plan for eliminating Saddam.
You're obviously in the minority of people who watch Diane Sawyer interviews.

Let me ask you, was the war in Iraq worth it?

Should you say "no", I'll be sure to call you a terrorist who wants our soldiers to die. Should you say "yes", I'll let everyone know you're in favor of those thirty-five children who died in today's explosion in Baghdad.

But, whatever. Obviously you don't think he answered it. Obviously I think he did his best. Neither of us are likely to make the other guy go "Hey, you're right!"

Why am I voting for Kerry? Because I disagree with the majority of the social issues Bush and the Republican party stand for. The "war on terror" barely enters into it. Honestly, I doubt Kerry will do tremendously better job at it than Bush but he probably won't do any worse either. Perhaps if Bush had stayed the course in Afghanistan I'd feel differently. Needless to say, that wasn't the case and neither Afghanistan nor Iraq are less of a hotbed of terrorism now than before (and many argue that Iraq is worse off). What Kerry can help influence are the social issues like abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, Church & State issues, etc that I support and which Bush and his party generally run against.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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