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#1 Jun 18 2004 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok I am currently having a debate over something and I need the help of a more knowledgeable RPG'er. We are arguing whether or not the Druid class has a standard or guideline that you tend to follow from one game to the next. The argument started over World of Warcraft and the ability for Druids to transform into some Seal-like creature. Now in my experience, which is limited, I have always assumed that the Druid followed a sort of Standard. These are some of the things that I think of when I think Druid, and there are many more but these are a few:

  • Nature based, so uses spells such as entangle, etc.
  • Typically Human or Lizardman
  • Usually has a water-breathing abilities.
  • Summons or Pets
  • Associated with Ranger but lack the melee abilities.
  • Relies more on magic.
  • Transformation, usually wolf, bear, etc.

  • Now I may be completely wrong but.. Seal Transformation does NOT fit into the norm. Im not saying you can't do it cause its all fantasy and roleplaying, but as a guideline this does not fit the norm.

    What do you all think?
    #2 Jun 18 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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    You list animal transformation and then say transforming into a seal wouldn't fit? Why?
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    #3 Jun 18 2004 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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    I think people usually associate druids with temperate forests. Seals, on the other hand, don't usually frolic under the maples in a wooded glade.

    You never see nature priests (I hesittate to say Druid because some yahoo will decide to give me a 3 page Llewellyn discourse on the Celtic origins of druids) who are hanging out in the desert, jungle, tundra, mountain steppes, etc. Or, if you do, they just get called shamans.
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    #4 Jun 18 2004 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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    I guess. I live in a temperate forest and seals frolic on the rocks of the shore.
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    To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a whore. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. @#%^ off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

    #5 Jun 18 2004 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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    Ah, but they're not actually frolicing in the forest, now are they? Now, if you want to be some hippie shoreline druid, more power to you. But that's not what my "Teenage Guide to Witchcraft" has to say about them.
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    #6 Jun 18 2004 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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    Yes, I meant forest-based transformations, ie wolf, bear, etc.

    Like I said though, the things you can be or do with a Druid in an RPG enviroment is limitless, only constrained by the imagination of the person portraying the character. But would you not agree that a Druid should follow a guideline and having a seal transformation is not typical of this guideline?

    When I say guideline I mean it in the sense that, Mages will cast magic and be weaker than the typical Warrior that cannot cast magic but can sustain massive damage, usually gain ailment skills and have an ability to lower defense but gain offense(berserk). This is what I mean by a guideline.
    #7 Jun 18 2004 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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    If we're talking about the stereotypical Celtic based guy who collects holly & mistletoe, I guess I'd largely agree with what you said though I wouldn't include lizard folk or water breathing in it.

    On the other hand, if we're using "druid" as a generic for "nature based priest", I'd have no problems with guys who lived in a region like a Pacific Northwest who turn into seals, South Pacific who turned into dolphins or sea turtles, the savannah who turned into antelope or rhinos, etc.
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    #8 Jun 18 2004 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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    I have played Icewind Dale II and been using the Druid class, and of course like typical Druids, they have their Nature Spells, which cannot be cast indoors for some odd reason, and they have their typical pets and Transfomation abilities...but the thing that shocked me is that you could turn into an Elemental! Yay!!! The thing is if they follow a standard they would become a very boring class...something that could be cool would be to make different classes of Druids, such as Forest Druids, Dessert Druids, Ocean Druids, Mountain Druids ect. ect...If you conform yourself to a standard then the class may become boring...just my take on that though...
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    #9 Jun 18 2004 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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    There you go using your imagination again, Jophiel. Think back to all the RPG's you have ever played, be them crappy games to popular, text based to graphical, pure imagination(d&d) to whatever... Now look at my question again.

    In a typical RPG enviroment, a druid usually does NOT come with an ability to transform into a seal because they are usually forest based. I have seen some games that give druids FULL shapechange abilities(shapechange into any animal you can think of), which I dont really agree with either. Of course let me point out that I hate the druid class, but Im not just being biased as my friend says. By the way, he is also reading this forum, but too lazy to create an account and argue back.

    And on the Celtic level, although that is the basis for a druid I am not talking about those. Gaming enviroment only.

    Edited to correct some mistakes, I left out part of a sentence

    Edited, Fri Jun 18 15:33:05 2004 by syscol
    #10 Jun 18 2004 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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    And on the Celtic level, although that is the basis for a druid I am not talking about those

    But that's the model you want. Your stereotypical, 1st edition AD&D cleric wannabe who is True Neutral, has a club and a sickle, wears leather armor, has a bird sitting on his shoulder and uses a lot of mistletoe.

    No, in that case, I wouldn't figure him turning into a seal. But in that case just say druids are like the 1st edition AD&D rules say and stop bitching every time our concept of "Druid" doesn't match what you want us to say Smiley: tongue

    Edited, Fri Jun 18 15:35:57 2004 by Jophiel
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    #11 Jun 18 2004 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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    Okay so your problem is the whole seal transformation thing
    Quote:
    Transformation, usually wolf, bear, etc.

    and
    Quote:
    Usually has a water-breathing abilities.


    There we go, while seals dont breath water so to speak a water breathing seal would be a menace.

    And maybe they come from an underwater forest?

    If neither of those reasons work im gonna go the easy way out and blame it on wizards.
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    #12 Jun 18 2004 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    I hesittate to say Druid because some yahoo will decide to give me a 3 page Llewellyn discourse on the Celtic origins of druids


    don't worry, I'll spare you.... there's actually evidence that Druidicness is older that Celticness anyway


    Bur as far as the Seal thing goes, here:
    http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/selkiefolk/selorig.htm
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    #13 Jun 18 2004 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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    Sorry, I like to bitch and argue. :P But yeah what Im looking for is a stereotype. That is all, thats my entire argument. I will say that Im not limiting it to simply AD&D rules but most druids are that way mainly because they are based on those AD&D rules. But that is the only point I am trying to get across, most druids fall into the tree hugging hippy stereotype.

    Also, thanks for all the responses.
    #14 Jun 18 2004 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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    Just saw seal post. Ok so the origins for Seal transformation has been found. There is a basis for WHY you would have a seal transformation. While it does not fit into "MY" standard, I admit defeat! Finally someone has shown me evidence of why they would have a seal transformation, so I no longer think it ludicrous to have that ability. But I still stand by my original argument of standards and guidelines. Im a stubborn bastard that dont know when to shutup
    THANKS Kelvyquayo the Furtive!

    Edited, Fri Jun 18 15:49:42 2004 by syscol
    #15 Jun 18 2004 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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    Actually because of those D&D Rules, that is one of the reason I love final fantasy so much...they never really have ever followed a set of rules...although they are good to have because they you are just going to get some wacked out stuff...don't get me wrong I love D&D, but I don't think it hurts if someone wants to go out of the norm and make some type of new development...I mean how did they come up with the D&D rules? Did they have a standard to follow then?
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    #16 Jun 18 2004 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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    You should add the ability to direct the construction of large stone structures aligned to astronomical events.

    I want my druid to be able to predict the next lunar eclipse, darnit. Oh, wait a minute, that would be totally useless, never mind.
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    #17 Jun 18 2004 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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    Thanks again to all who participated in my argument. Time to go home now, works over. Cya
    #18 Jun 18 2004 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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    Ages ago, shrouded within the mists of time, an ancient & forgoten tome of Taru lore entitled "WTF-aru" speaks of a noble class of forgotten Druids.

    Previous to the economic oppression brought upon by the Hume ascension, Bastok & its surrounding areas were quite lush, bountiful & ample enough to sustain the hearty appetites of its indigenous race, the Galka.

    Feeling the grace of such bounty, the Galka embarked upon a "Natural Spiritualism" and was rewarded by Nature for their servitude to the exent, they were given the ability to transcend their physical restraints.

    Having not the corruption of Hume culture and the lacking of Humetic deviation associated by their polytheism, the Galka were able to become other creatures of the natural world.

    Galka, by nature, are not mental giants. By forgoing Reason & Critical Thinking, the Galka were compensated by an enormity in spirit that nurtures the Sympathetic arts & it is these arts that led to the rise of the Druidic order. It is, unfortunately, also this same broad scope of sentiment that led to the Order's eventual end.

    While strolling through the meadows of South Gustaberg, a strapping young Galka by the name of Running-Gag came across a wounded lemming and his heart bled. Running-Gag's despair was such that his empathy was undeniable, so deep, that he was immediately over come by grief and his pain became manifest in his form. Running-Gag forsake his hulking form for that of a lemming.

    Other Galka nearby, learning of this metamorphosis all became grief stricken to the same effect; all were immediately and irrevocably transformed. All became lemmings.

    The collective cries could be heard far & wide, even across the sea in the land of Windurst, where their plight has been recorded. It is said, the Galka, all overcome with pain unbearable, plunged over the ravine in North Gustaberg, to their immediate deaths. They were lemmings, after all.

    Other legends persist, but this one is prevalent and undeniably true.....really.

    8o)





    #19 Jun 18 2004 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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    Dessert Druids


    What would these guys turn into? Bananas Foster?
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