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Immorality in the 21st CenturyFollow

#1 Jun 10 2004 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow... the immorality these days is overwhelming, but last week I found a nice lil subject to take a photo of. According to those that actually use them, these are the cheapest prices seen in town... makes you wondered if they've been taylored to meet the income of lunch money's and allowances. :\

Is there anyone that actually supports this?!?!?

I don't.

Edited, Thu Jun 10 19:27:43 2004 by ElvaanKrem
#2 Jun 10 2004 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm... Since when did "selling something I don't like" become "immorality"? Do you know where that picture was taken? Do you know what the laws for cigarette sales are in that area? If you don't, then you can't possibly make any judgements about the morality of the scene.
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#3 Jun 10 2004 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, cigarettes are CHEAP where I live. You can get a carton of Malboros for about $20.99 usually around here.

As an ex-smoker, I'm not vehemently opposed to the habit. I have no intentions of taking it back up; it was ruining my health. But if other people want to do it, I don't care. Free willy and all that crap.
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#4 Jun 10 2004 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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well, my country was founded on 'baccer.

I'm proud of the sign.
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#5 Jun 10 2004 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Since when did "selling something I don't like" become "immorality"? Do you know where that picture was taken?

Yes, it was taken by myself in the area I work and live. Its not "selling something I don't like" that I find "Immoral" its the fact an ICE CREAM TRUCK is selling them. Granted some parents actually buy stuff from time to time, but I would have to venture that more than 90% of all sales done off an ice cream truck are intended for use by minors. Therefore, cigarettes have no purpose being on an Ice Cream truck.
#6 Jun 10 2004 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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It's pansies like you that have driven the decent smoking community out of bars and restaurants and the like in cities accross America, Elvaan. That, my friend, is immorality to me.

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#7 Jun 10 2004 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Twizted, please read my comment I wrote while you were typing. It is not cigarette's that I am against. Its the sales of cigarette's in/on anything that targets children as their main consumer. It'd be like going to KB Toys and finding a Joe Camel action figure play set.

Edited, Thu Jun 10 20:07:18 2004 by ElvaanKrem
#8 Jun 10 2004 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, who do you think the kids that buy ice cream get the money from? I'm sure that parents with kids who buy ice cream smoke too. This PC bullsh[u][/u]it needs to stop.

Twiztid

Edited, Thu Jun 10 20:26:18 2004 by TwiztidSamurai
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#9 Jun 10 2004 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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Granted some parents actually buy stuff from time to time, but I would have to venture that more than 90% of all sales done off an ice cream truck are intended for use by minors. Therefore, cigarettes have no purpose being on an Ice Cream truck.



So it's not the ice cream trucks fault that the kids are smoking. It's the ones that are buying the cigarettes for the kids that is causing to the "immorality" that you are ranting about.

So how again is putting them on an ice cream truck a bad thing? If the kid wants to smoke, he will find someone to buy them for him, whether it is off a truck, or out of a store.

#10 Jun 10 2004 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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well, ok, I simply asked if anyone actually supports that, and apparently I'm the only one that doesn't... so my appologies to those that like to get cigarettes off the Ice Cream truck instead of walking to the corner store or picking them up at your local supermarket.
#11 Jun 10 2004 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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well, ok, I simply asked if anyone actually supports that, and apparently I'm the only one that doesn't... so my appologies to those that like to get cigarettes off the Ice Cream truck instead of walking to the corner store or picking them up at your local supermarket.



Didn't you know that keeping cigarettes cold keeps them fresher longer? It's marketing genius I tell you!

That, and most people are lazy bastards.

And stop apologizing, makes you look weak. The vultures around here will pick you apart in no time.
#12 Jun 10 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't like being called a troll.

Edited, Fri Jun 11 03:01:23 2004 by CrimsonMagician
#13 Jun 10 2004 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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^^OTST

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#14 Jun 10 2004 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Advice taken to heart Medius, at any rate... I just reread the opening statement and wow... I could have sooo worded that better. I just feel cigarettes should not be targetted to children... thats why the chalk cigarettes that I grew up with in the 80's were taken off the shelves and ice cream trucks. I, amung MANY other kids in my school at the time, used to buy those and puff out the chalk smoke just to look cool. They didn't taste good at all... but it was cool to puff the smoke (chalk). Yet its still ok to put the real thing on an ice cream truck.

I don't care if they put cigarettes in a vending machine at Carl's Jr or McDonalds (as long as they don't put it next to the playcenter). I don't care if you smoke at Disneyland, or in the movies (if you could)... but would you smoke at a preschool? I'm just saying it doesn't need to be flashed infront of our children's eyes... and I particuallarly find it interesting that is the two biggest signs on that truck.
#15 Jun 10 2004 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwiztidSamurai the Malevolent wrote:
^^OTST

Twiztid


What's this mean?
#16 Jun 11 2004 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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In reality, who cares what it means.

Anyway. I used to buy cigerettes from the ice cream man outside of my junior high school. I have ever since been smoking. There is no doubt in my mind cigerettes are addictive, there is also no doubt in my mind that having cigerettes priced next to a mr good bar is immoral. It scares me that you can relate smoking in bars to messaging to kids, smoking is ok. This is exactly what it is doing considering the ice cream man, a symbol for most grown ups as wholesome, is now being degregated by such a blatent attempt to "hook em while theyre young". <-- which is also what was written in a memo to a ceo at phillip morris as to how to get more people to smoke.


Maybe a little research behind "why" in all aspect of life would do some of you good before speaking.
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#17 Jun 11 2004 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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OTST = Off this **** troll

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#18 Jun 11 2004 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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TwiztidSamurai the Malevolent wrote:
OTST = Off this **** troll

Twiztid


Smiley: lol Good to know.
#19 Jun 11 2004 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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TwiztidSamurai the Malevolent wrote:
It's pansies like you that have driven the decent smoking community out of bars and restaurants and the like in cities accross America, Elvaan. That, my friend, is immorality to me.

Twiztid


Ya it had *nothing* to do with the lung cancer that the employees were getting.

Lung cancer...you're right to smoke in a bar...lung cancer...you're right to smoke in a bar...oh the moral quandry is *so* difficult!
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#20 Jun 11 2004 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Lung cancer...you're right to smoke in a bar...lung cancer...you're right to smoke in a bar...oh the moral quandry is *so* difficult!


It's a bar, not a ******* health spa.

You are a non smoker? You want to work in a bar? Then guess what? People are gonna be SMOKING around you! Oh my!

#21 Jun 11 2004 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Like the alcohol in a bar is somehow good for people. At least smoking doesn't make you run over the neighbor's kid with you car...while he's asleep in his own bed.

I have to agree with Medius (even though I think it's supposed to be Medicus, at least that what I seem to remember from the Masters of Rome series). It is a bar, not a health spa. Next thing you know, crackheads will be complaining about secondhand smoke.
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#22 Jun 11 2004 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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I have to agree with Medius (even though I think it's supposed to be Medicus, at least that what I seem to remember from the Masters of Rome series).



me·di·us (md-s)
adj.

Of, relating to, or being an anatomical structure that is between two other similar structures or that is midway in position; middle.



I give you the medius finger. I think I know what I meant for my name to be. Asshat.
#23 Jun 11 2004 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Hmmm... Since when did "selling something I don't like" become "immorality"? Do you know where that picture was taken? Do you know what the laws for cigarette sales are in that area? If you don't, then you can't possibly make any judgements about the morality of the scene.

Since when did you get to define someone elses morals?
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#24 Jun 11 2004 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I am with you Krem...not only is it immoral, but it is unethical as well. First of all what good comes from cigarette smoking anyway? Nothing...most people say they smoke because it relieves stress...not true...it actually causes stress...but anyway if the person selling ice cream knows that his customers are going to be minors, then he should stick to products that minors can buy...Quality of service...
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#25 Jun 11 2004 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I give you the medius finger. I think I know what I meant for my name to be. Asshat.


Well, aren't we a pair? You know, I can picture the middle finger pretty well, but I'm having a problem visualizing the asshat. Help me out on that part, wouldja?
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#26 Jun 11 2004 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Quote:

Hmmm... Since when did "selling something I don't like" become "immorality"? Do you know where that picture was taken? Do you know what the laws for cigarette sales are in that area? If you don't, then you can't possibly make any judgements about the morality of the scene.

Since when did you get to define someone elses morals?



Good point Smash. Kinda like what I was trying to tell the OP. He's the one calling the action "immoral", not me.
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#27 Jun 11 2004 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
people need to understand the difference between being immoral and ammoral
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#28 Jun 11 2004 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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people need to understand the difference between being immoral and ammoral


Immoral - Acknowledging a set of morals and going against what those morals state.

Ammoral - Having no moral concepts. The inability to distinguish between right and wrong.
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#29 Jun 11 2004 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
i didnt say all people
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#30 Jun 11 2004 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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i didnt say all people


Wasn't dogging you...just trying to be informative...
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#31 Jun 11 2004 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
yah i know, sorry im running out of caffeine and im limiting myself to one line unhelpful posts
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#32 Jun 11 2004 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I think a better question for this Krem is whether or not this is ethical. Everyone is going to have a different moral approach to this because you morals are established by the way you were raised, or your religious background. Ethics, especially bussiness ethics, tend to be generalized and most people, especially if they are in the same country tend to have a somewhat standard ethics. Oh and trust me their is a difference between morals and ethics.
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#33 Jun 11 2004 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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I'd actually have to look them up for the complete definitions, but my understanding is the following:

Morals are based off the collective "mores" of a group of people. So, while you may have your own personal set of morals imposed upon you by your family or a subset of the collective whole, something is broadly "moral" or "immoral" based on how the society as a whole views it.

Ethics are based off a set of "rules" by which you arrive at a right or wrong answer to something. They are not so much personal beliefs as a set of rules that you follow to determine right and wrong. Ethics will always (should always) have a level of consistency to them. So if it's wrong for a white man to beat up a black man, it's equally wrong for a black man to beat up a white man. Morals don't always follow such distinctions and can be very inconsistent (a society full of white people could certainly decide that beating up a black man is "moral").



If he's talking about morals, then that's based on what the people in the region belief. If it's not illegal to do that, then obviously it's not viewed as that bad of a thing to do, so I have to question whether you can blanketly call it immoral.


It *could* be unethical, if your ethics include the "rules" that selling tobacco to children is wrong, and that selling something at an ice cream stand is likely to result in sales to children. But that's a different concept...
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#34 Jun 12 2004 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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capitalism at it's best baaaaby. Did anyone else notice the strip club in the background.
#35 Jun 12 2004 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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I wish the cigarette truck would drive by here. I'd be sitting in my house, watching cartoons on a summer day, hear the sound of The Entertainer (the piano jingle, not the Billy Joel song) come in through the window, get all excited and run outside with my twenties in hand to buy a pack of Marlboro Lights and a rocket-pop.

****, it could be the Billy Joel song for all I care.

It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long
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#36 Jun 13 2004 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morals

Morality is a complex of concepts and philosophical beliefs by which an individual determines whether his or her actions are right or wrong.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#37 Jun 13 2004 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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my god you guys are knitpickers... ok, I said Immorality instead of Ethical... Still feel cigarettes have no place being on an ice cream truck... otherwise the Ice cream truck should start selling those chalk cigarette gums again too. Hey, maybe some cartoon lighters by bic... or Mighty Morphin Power Ranger match books.
#38 Jun 14 2004 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Ever notice the moral high ground some non smokers take?
I consider myself a non smoker via the fact I don't smoke cigarettes and only occasionally smoke a cigar. Maybe 1-5 a year. If that.
But I am no fool. I believe smokers belong in a bar. I believe it's ok to smoke in a restaurant in the smoking section. Lighting up at the beach or a park is ok with me. Who do these high moral people think they are to step in and tell people what to do because they feel it's bothering them. If you get second hand smoke from a smoker then politly ask them to not blow it your way or put it out. Depending on the circumstances. If your too proud or too offended then you leave. Don't make them leave unless they're doing it against the rules set by the private business owner or they are delibratly blowing smoke in people's faces.
Next thing you know people won't be allowed to walk around nude. Sheesh.

And on a side note, prohibition didn't work in the 20's and it won't work now.
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#39 Jun 14 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morals

Morality is a complex of concepts and philosophical beliefs by which an individual determines whether his or her actions are right or wrong.


Sigh. Am I the only one not surprised when Smash includes just *part* of a definition for something? Let me bold the parts you left out:

Quote:
Morality is a complex of concepts and philosophical beliefs by which an individual determines whether his or her actions are right or wrong. Oftentimes, these concepts and beliefs are generalized and codified in a culture or group, and thus serve to regulate the behaviour of its members. Conformity to such codification may also be called morality, and the group may depend on widespread conformity to such codes for its continued existence. A "moral" may refer to a particular principle, usually as informal and general summary with respect to a moral principle, as it is applied in a given human situation.



Funny. When you add the bits in the definition where it mentions the group and the society, and how the individual's behaviour matches that of society, it's suddenly soooo much more like what I said in the first place.

Do you go out of your way to deliberately misread something just so you can argue with me Smash? That seems kinda silly...

Edited, Mon Jun 14 16:34:29 2004 by gbaji
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