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Don't remove someone from party for what they do IRL...Follow

#1 May 12 2004 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
4,804 posts
Ok... before I start on my message, I would first like to deliever this disclosure:

"This is not to start a flame war. This is not to find out who does what. This is not to find others opinions on the situation (though constructive comments are welcomed). This is simply to express my feelings for those taking things a little TOO seriously."

Recently a couple threads were started in the General section with regards to use of mind altering enhancements. Its very apparent that most here disapprove of the use of illegal substances and to this I say: "Cheers" (as in good for you... not as in cheers, drink up).

I've seen comments in those threads along the lines of such:
"If you drink or do drugs, I'll remove you from my party." and also seen statements of IRL examples of why drugs are bad and these are acceptable rebuttles. However, FFXI is not real life. Real life, you make a mistake, it may be too late to correct. FFXI, may take you some time to get back up... but you always get to try again.

Granted drugs and/or alcohol may not be supported by yourself and/or your beliefs. However, do not take the opportunity for one to have fun, as well as help you make exp, simply because they are doing something IRL you disapprove of.

Removing a member for pulling too many IT's when its apparent each time the parties health/survival is at risk... its another to remove a member who's provoking every 32 seconds just because his eyes are puffy and the silliest things are found funny.

To assume a whm is not gunna be able to heal you because one of your old buddies couldn't control his/her vehicle is wrong. Those are two completely different scenarios. I believe a person in FFXI should be judged sololy on performance and communication.

If a person is too drunk to coherently play... constantly making typo's and hitting wrong macro's... then sure, they can be removed as their not too skilled at the moment and do not benefit the team. However, if someone is trashed, but still doing their job to a T... whats it matter? everyone gains exp, everyone lives, everyone is happy... why should you take enjoyment away from someone for something that doesn't effect FFXI?

In short... if whatever the person is doing IS infact effecting their game, sure... you have a right to remove them. However, if someone is doing their job well, it is morally wrong to remove them simply cause you do not approve of their actions IRL. Heck, how you even know if those really are their actions or if they're B/S'ing to look cool? Basically, if someone is getting trashed and doing a good job, just assume they're sober just like you... if someone is sober and plays like they're trashed, do yourself and your party a favor and remove from party.

You should not judge by a persons emotes but by their true actions.
#2 May 12 2004 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
151 posts
-And on the seventh day God took a day off, and have done so since then-
#3 May 13 2004 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
1,102 posts
Slightly on a tangent, but whenever my roommates smoked pot, I made them do it somewhere I wasn't. And I did NOT allow them to expose it where I was. To the point I told one of my friends who was joining a bunch of us for a conversation in my room, and she took out her stuff and started to roll joints, to get that stuff out of my room. I think I used somewhat stronger language than that... but she put it away to join us for talking.

The same is somewhat true in parties. Do it or not, I don't care (I think it's wrong, but it's your body that you're ******** with), but if it affects me, stop it or leave.

I didn't go to college to get in trouble or kicked out because my roommates liked "recreational activities" and I don't play games to die or be stressed because a party member likes those activities also.

Maybe I'm somewhat ****** on that issue, but I spent four years in a dorm situation with one heavy pot user, one moderate pot user and two occasional pot users. And when I had to forgo showering or SLEEPING because they were smoking in the bathroom or high and giggling inanely and loudly (or worse, loudly going, "Sssssh! My Roommate is Sleeeeeeping! *giggle* We shouldn't wake her up. *snort-giggle-cough*), when I had a test or something else at 8 in the morning and it was already 2am... I quickly lost my tolerance for such activities that adversely affect me for someone elses "fun".
#4 May 13 2004 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
4,804 posts
Kiatrix, I can complete understand, accept and respect your wishes to have no part to do with it in real life.. and simple because someone says they're doing it online does not make it any part of your life. They are hundreds or thousands of miles away from you. You cannot say that you died in a party because your whm was stoned. You can say that you died in a party because your whm sucked. Thats vague.... could be because the whm was stoned or drunk... then again it could be because they were on the phone, or had to answer the door for the pizza guy, or were watching a dvd instead of paying attention.

There are many more factors for bad party members and someone simply being stoned is not that harsh... I mean how much of the game do you really have to pay attention to? Melee's just watch for weaponskills mainly, tanks will have to voke if the mob leaves (but most can't do this properly while sober). BLM's don't really have to pay attention to anything (except for Magic Bursts)... they just cast. Finally as a whm, I only watch the lower right corner where the party's HP stats are. I also keep my fingers over the f1-f6 keys and my pinky over control so I can quickly target and cast. When I'm whm, I cast so mad I feel like I'm playing my keyboard like a piano or something.

My point is simple: Do not confuse Reality with Fantasy. I doubt you'll get kicked out of college cause someone across the country is in your party and smoking. I keep hearing rebuttle statements to this, but all supporting arguements are from real life scenario's. Personally, if I were to die from someone's inhabilitated mindset, I probably wouldn't assume they're discumbobulated, I'd just assume they're a horrible player with more to learn. So again I state... Please remove someone from a party for the faults they make, not from the actions they say they're doing IRL.
#5 May 14 2004 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
1,102 posts
I don't confuse reality with fantasy. My reality is that I'm playing a game that I want to have fun in, and I expect others who are also playing the game WITH ME to have their attention focused on the same game I am.

The times I've partied with someone who has been a terrible player, and we're sitting there wondering what they're doing, why they keep going idle, how come they don't provoke, why they always miss the skill chains... they've usually finally 'fessed up when we keep saying, "What happened?" that they're high, or are currently smoking, or they went idle IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT to go smoke some.

Now, this isn't saying all people who are terrible are high, I know this. But when you are stoned, you're deliberately going into a situation that may require your attention, at a point when your attention is just as likely to be stuck on the glare from your lamp on your screen rather than the fact that you're the main tank and your white mage is being whaled upon.

So, if I'm in an exp party and someone is not doing what they should be doing, and it comes out that the reason they're slacking is that they went idle to smoke or something like that (I do the same thing with people who idle in the middle of a fight to go get Wendys), I have no tolerance for that.

What they are doing is DIRECTLY affecting me. I have to wait, I have to die, I have to do something I don't want to do because they are stoned, drunk, etc. Yes, I'm not really dying, but my character is. And I don't like when my character dies because someone isn't paying attention.

If it was something serious that is distracting their attention (there have been times when I've needed to emergency idle because of a real life situation), I'd understand that. If the reason I keep almost dying (or dying) and it takes us forever to finish off one relatively "easy" monster is because our tank/damage dealer is busy smoking some marijuana rather than paying attention to his party, that, I don't understand and don't forgive.

Don't do something that seriously affects your judgement and then start playing a game that requires your concentration and attention and has the possibility of adversely affecting someone else because the fact that you're seriously stoned and/or drunk. It's as simple as that.

If you can smoke a joint or drink a beer and still be "acceptable" to working in a party, even if not at your best, that's fine. Silly, IMO, but fine. But if you're so stoned or drunk that you're adversely affecting the party, then that is NOT fine. And I will kick you from my group. The same way I'd kick anyone else who was seriously adversely affecting the party due to them being a dumb-***. One is inherent in the person, the other is self-induced.

And I'm a white mage also, ElvaanKrem, and I have to pay very close attention during battle all the time. So do melees. So does every class. If someone isn't paying attention in our group, or is stoned, then someone is going to die (or it is going to get uncomfortably close.)
#6 May 14 2004 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
Sacrificial Lamb
16,160 posts
'Ludes enhance that whole living-without-drugs experience thing. Just sayin'.

Born-on date: 2076


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#7 May 14 2004 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
16,057 posts
smoking some marijuana

smoking some marijuana
smoking some marijuana
smoking some marijuana
smoking some marijuana


o yeah
With the receiver in my hand..
#8 May 14 2004 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
1,102 posts
*giggle* That explains a lot about your posts, Kelv. ;)
#9 May 14 2004 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
16,057 posts

wha....? ..who?...

*puff puff*
With the receiver in my hand..
#10 May 14 2004 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
2,878 posts
While I COMPLETELY agree on the point of the message, anyone who takes a 5 minute break every 10 or 20 minutes is getting kicked, no matter what they are dooing. Smoking pot, a cig, oregano, dooing lines of pure cane sugar... I don't care. You are holding up the group. Do your drugs or whatever AT THE PC :)

Unless they are sick and crapping/ralphing their brains out, that is a good excuse :p

Edited, Fri May 14 11:45:57 2004 by Bakkasan
OniElvaan the Eccentric wrote: I hate my cat so ******* much right now, not because she decided to have her kittens at 5am in my bed, that happens. No I hate her because she decided to have her kittens at 5am in my bed on my chest...
#11 May 14 2004 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
348 posts
A smart group will call for periodic breaks. As long as they can function fine in your game, whatever they're doing with their time on those breaks is none of your business. :)
#12 May 14 2004 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
1,102 posts
Kitca wrote:
A smart group will call for periodic breaks. As long as they can function fine in your game, whatever they're doing with their time on those breaks is none of your business. :)

I may have spaced it out in several posts, but that's what I'm trying to get at. It's just been my experience that people who are stoned/drunk are more likely to be kicked out of the group for being an unacceptable party member, not because we're sitting there saying, "He smokes weed, we must kick him" but because we're sitting there going, "What the @#% are you doing? You left in the middle of the fight to go SMOKE?" :P

We take regular breaks in my party, for grabbing food, using the restroom, taking the dogs out, etc, etc. If someone uses that time to smoke, that's fine. But when we get back from break, they had better be able to still play the game properly and not get us all killed. :)
#13 May 14 2004 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
524 posts
Bravo Krem! BTW, Thanks for having my back on those other 3 posts that Hitler's finest shot down a couple days ago.

Hey Kelv, I noticed your avatar. Have you seen the entire.hack series? How was it? I only saw the 1st 5 episoded in JP but it seemed really really good. Let me know if it's worth buying...Actually I know you are going to say it is since you are obviously partial to it having the avatar and all.

On a final note, I think only people ignorant of the "liberated lifestyle" would say things such as "...your attention is just as likely to be stuck on the glare from your lamp on your screen...". I mean come on now. I respect peoples opinions regardless if I agree with them or not but at the very least have a valid and informed opinion.

I have 2 very good RL friends who love FFXI. They are usually "liberated" 90% of the time they play and seriously they are some of the best NA players on my server. One is a WHM and is constanly getting great comments frm his PTs. Basically just don't Criticize what you don't understand.

We are not talking about getting buzzed and then getting behind the wheel of a car or operating heavy machinery. We are talking about sitting behind a monitor. If people who are lit actually mess up in the game to the extent of which most of these negative remarks claim they most likely are that bad in a sober state anyway.
Hume Male - San d'Oria - Rank 6 - ZM6

currently leveling: WAR/NIN
Retired: Gilthanas 31BLM/15WHM
#14 May 14 2004 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
4,804 posts
Now, this isn't saying all people who are terrible are high, I know this.

Very true... but this eludes onto my whole point...

Not all people who are high are terrible.

The point of this thread is mainly to state:
"Give someone a try to prove their worth." If they're a terrible player because they're going idle inbetween fights to smoke a bowl... by all means, remove them. That is neglegance in the game. The IRL situation is just the cause... point here is you're not upset at him/her for smoking, you're upset at him for leaving in battle to do so.

I'm smart about my recreation. I will break it up so it does not effect my party. As a whm, I wait till I'm down to 4 MP and I need to rest. I hit my rest macro... say brb, afk and then take 30-45 seconds (infront of my keyboard) setting myself up. Usually someone pulls before I can get to it, but its done and ready to go next REST. I never occupy my hands during battle, and I put everything down when its time for battle.

Its a true shame I don't have more players that have partied with me here to back me up, but I put my party first when I play.. and this game does not require such attention to detail that I must be sober.

Truthfully, the only thing that has ever gotten in my way and caused death to myself and/or my party has been my cat. My cat will jump up on my lap and then I have to arch my arms over her. This cat is HUGE... 23-24lb's and I can't see my keys anymore after she's on my lap. I hit wrong macro's and wrong targets quite easily. So are you saying you will not ever party with anyone with fat cats?
#15 May 14 2004 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
48 posts
Dude.. this is stupid..

Get upset if someone sucks. If they only ***** up once or twice get over it. Your room-mates suck and they are loud pot smokers; get new room-mates or complain to someone who cares.

Ive screwed up by just not paying attention but over-all I think Im a good player and I dont think people hate me because I made some silly mistakes. I dont smoke pot anymore but I used to and It NEVER stopped my from being able to play a game, lol I was even able to play better at times...

I can respect someone not wanting to be around me if I'm doing something they dont like. **** the rules off common decency apply in every situation.

My point: Drug yourself into oblivion I dont give a rats behind, get me evicted for any reason and I have a problem. Make me die in FF because of your inabilty to focus on what you are doing and I have a problem.. Other than that you could be shooting heroine while smoking pot and shoving gerbles up your behind! All Ive got to say to that is: Have fun.

If you are gonna complain about stuff that doesnt affect you or anyone other than the person doing it... then you need a hobby. Maybe you need to do some drugs yourself...
Hyjynx on Seraph
Linkshells: Family:Funkytarudancers ~ HNM:Galleon~
75 Sam, 47 Mnk, 56 Rng,48 thf, 62 Nin, RDM 26
12 Whm, 22 Blm, 10 Bst, War 37.
#16 May 14 2004 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
3,826 posts
I drank to much Mulsum in the Lion Springs Inn, in South Sandy...I think I got a Galka size Hangover...

Xbox Live ID: Dr Sahn
#17 May 14 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
3,458 posts
Do you mean Molson?
#20 May 15 2004 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
1,102 posts
I respect peoples opinions regardless if I agree with them or not but at the very least have a valid and informed opinion.
Basically just don't Criticize what you don't understand.

I may not have experienced it first hand, and maybe it was just a function of my roomies being very heavy pot smokers, but yes, that's very much how they were when they were high. So, you can hardly expect me to base MY experiences with people who do drugs on the way YOUR friends act when high, can you?

And you must have missed one of my earlier posts that says:

If you can smoke a joint or drink a beer and still be "acceptable" to working in a party, even if not at your best, that's fine. Silly, IMO, but fine. But if you're so stoned or drunk that you're adversely affecting the party, then that is NOT fine. And I will kick you from my group. The same way I'd kick anyone else who was seriously adversely affecting the party due to them being a dumb-***. One is inherent in the person, the other is self-induced.

Meaning I don't care what you do when you're behind your monitor, AS LONG AS YOU CAN PLAY THE GAME. Was I being too obtuse in my statement? (Let me bold the pertinent points for you.)

I tend to be verbose in my opinions, and as I've learned, people tend to skip over what I'm really saying to highlight a few side-comments. Which you have apparently picked up on the very salient fact that I do not think doing drugs is a good thing. But what you are doing is taking my opinion on doing drugs and letting that override what I am SAYING. Which is (let me repeat it), I don't care what you do behind your monitor, as long as you can play the game!

Maybe you need to do some drugs yourself...

No thanks. I'll pass.

So are you saying you will not ever party with anyone with fat cats?

Excuse me, do you have a fat cat that likes to sit in your lap when you're partying? You DO! Sorry, you can't party with us. NEXT!

I wasn't aware that by saying if someone in my party screws up consistently because they're stoned or a dumb-*** and they get kicked, that means I'm going to start making party applicants fill out a resume.

I myself have a cat. She likes to lay in my lap. But like anything else, if she gets in the way of my fingers, I move her. Or I move my keyboard. Or I do something so that my ability to play is not impinged upon by my cat, or my dog, or anything else. Because people are depending on my ability to play the game to stay alive. I miss a cure once, no big deal. I consistently miss curing people or something like that, I fix the problem.

And yes, in one sense, I don't have an informed opinion, having never done drugs myself. But I do have a valid opinion, having lived with someone who was chronically stoned all the time, as to what I can expect from someone who is stoned. Because I don't approve of it myself doesn't mean I'm going to kick someone for doing it so long as they aren't ******** up consistently.

And since I can't tell if you're stoned just by looking at the way you play, nor can I tell if you have an overwieght cat (unless it's a Maine ****, then it may not be overweight) in your lap while you play, unless you do something that shouts, "I am stoned, see me ***** up!" I won't know it.

Which means, if you are stoned and you don't act like a dumb-*** and get my party killed, you're fine and dandy to stay in the group. I've probably partied with people who were smoking up and I never knew it because they still played the game OKAY. (Oh wow, gee, and I'm alright with it! The end must be near!)

(Am I really repeating this a third time? Yes, I am, because in my first three posts on this subject, it appears to have been overlooked.)

If you are stoned, or not stoned, and you're acting like a dumb-***, and you don't straighten your act up, you don't get to stay in the group. IN MY EXPERIENCE, dumb-asses that we've gotten fed up with have been stoned, or drunk. So, IN MY EXPERIENCE, you're more likely to be kicked from a group if you are stoned or drunk. The two kinda directly correlate. You aren't being kicked because you're stoned or drunk, you are being kicked because of how you are playing the game (which may or may not be related to the fact that you are stoned or drunk!)

Dying in a game happens. It happens a lot depending on where you're fighting. It can happen to one person, it can be a whole party wipe-out. It happens. If it happens due to honest error, or bad luck, that's one thing. If it happens because my white mage or primary tank is doing ANYTHING and not paying attention, that's another. (Have I made my point yet?)

(Again, so you don't forget it, this has to be a consistent mistake. Because accidents do happen. You can look away from the screen for one second because your cat is yowling and a party member will go from being fully alive to fully dead. It happens.)

I hope I've been sufficiently clear this time.
Just in case I haven't been, let me repeat it again.
Do whatever you want to do on your side of the monitor. I don't care. As soon as it starts to affect your game-play, then I care, because it is directly affecting me also. And if you keep on doing whatever it is to the point where you keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over again, then you're gone.

#22 May 15 2004 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
4,804 posts
Kiatrix, calm down man, sorry. :\. You're the soberest one I side and agree with most on this thread. All I was pointing out is what Kiatrix highlighted.

Someone can tell you they're hitting the pipe, or drinking a 5th, but doesn't necessarily mean they are. Further more, they could really be doing so and not say. Therefore you'll have no idea why they play poorly, or you'll never have an idea they're doing anything IRL cause they don't suffer in game very much.

I respect the fact you don't do drugs Kiatrix. I grew up vowing I would never touch marijuana as I did not like the person it made my own step-father. However, now its more or less my ridelline (I doubt I spelt that correctly). Without it, I've got 20 different things rushing thru my head and I can't focus on any one thing. Activities get really drab really quick, and at times I don't even feel like gaming. However, seeing my stepfather and how he was, and comparing to how I am when I'm high, vs how another one of my friends is when he's high, vs how my friend's mom is when she's high, I can clearly state that it has different adverse effects on people.

[/quote]and I'm a white mage also, ElvaanKrem, and I have to pay very close attention during battle all the time. So do melees. So does every class.[/quote]
No, not really. Krem is a 28mnk/14war. Other than pulling, and provoking, there is nothing else Krem needs to do. I don't need to hit any other macro's besides Focus/Dodge and perhaps Boost. Personally, I hope you're not a leader who will remove me for not using Boost. Its a choice I made, not lack of attention due from smoking.

Further more, as whm, all I do is stare at the 6 hp bars in the lower right corner. I keep my fingers on the f1-f6 keys while my pinky sits down by ctrl and alt so I can hit my macro's quickly. Yes, whm's have to pay attention... but weed will not hinder me from telling if your HP is white, yellow, orange or red... no worries.

So in short, based on what I said, please... do NOT remove a member because they have an emote of them hitting their bong. If you're offended by it or some sort of straight edge, feel free to express your disgust in the matter. However, don't remove the individual unless the whole party suffers from a poor player who cannot concentrate enough, or just lacks skill in general.

BTW, I move my cat too... but she hops right back up... rinse and repeat about 4 times before she gets the idea and goes to sulk in the bathroom. I was just using the cat as an example as to how game play can be hindered by just about anything. Removing someone for not playing right is one thing, removing someone cause they have a unibrow or crossedeyes IRL is a totally different thing.

Edited, Sat May 15 18:23:56 2004 by ElvaanKrem
#23 May 16 2004 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
1,102 posts
Sorry for the explosion. I also apparently was in a ***** mood yesterday. Also bit the head off of someone in my linkshell who was complaining that I didn't help him enough, no thank you, just "why didn't you do this before, would have been nice if you said this earlier!"

Okay, I can see how you're just arguing a point there, ElvaanKrem and I'm sorry I went psycho on you.

I would still disagree on one thing, ElvaanKrem, with your monk, not that I'd kick you for not boosting, but there is a move that will stun monsters, and if you're fighting a gobbie and a well-placed shoulder tackle can save a lot of people grief.. gotta be paying at least some attention. ;) (And no, I wouldn't kick you for not stunning the monster, either. That's a personal call on how to spend your TP outside of a skillchain, IMO, and unless someone specifically said, "Krem, save your TP to use shoulder-tackle to stop Gob bomb tosses.." you not doing it doesn't matter. :) But that's getting too "FFXI-specific" for this post, so I'll stop there. :)

I don't kick people for their emotes, emotes are meant to be funny and humerous and I don't usually take them seriously. Emotes about people doing drugs are not offensive. Sometimes dumb and repetitious IMO, but not offensive and not kick-worthy. That's like kicking someone from your group because they admit they're a girl in real life. Girls don't know how to play! *boot* (I am a girl, so, I disagree with that statement. :P)
#24 May 16 2004 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
209 posts
You guys make marijuana look like crack.

If I was tripping on acid and playing yea then my group would have a problem. If I'm Straight and I die... chances are I'm not gonna be a happy whm. If I'm a little high and something goes wrong/someone makes a mistake I'm much more tolerant.

Only difference between smoking cigarettes and smoking marijuana is that the second is illegal(in most places obviously...) and that is because people do not shut up about something that some people do in there own spare time.

So if we could please use more examples of drugs that will actually impair you and not blame everything on one little plant that honestly only idiots abuse(and let me add much less than tobacco and alcohol...) I'm sure some of us would appreciate it. :)
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#25 May 16 2004 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
Imaginary Friend
16,057 posts
ya'know Krem, my pagan friend, This is exactally my excuse/reason for doing it. I tell people, If I didn't do it.. i would murder all the idiots... ect..

But think about this.. all of this.. can't think straight, can't concentrate, don't want to play the game.... this become drab.... talk..

Have you concidered that these are all symptoms of your addiction? now I know, SOME may say "weed isn't sddiceting"... Well, yes it is. So are doritos, so is ***, so is Allakhazam..

One may also say... well the lack of motivation??.I'm motivated when I smoke..... but waht about when you come down?... where is your motivation then???.. I'm only motivated to smoke more.. or sit and stare... This is where the problem lies...
Smokers begin to believe that they Need to smoke or wahtever to get motivation to do things...and trust me.. I usually Do NOT have the patience to PLay FFXI when I am sober.. I am Always baked when I play....well I bet if you Didn't smoke for about a month everything would go back to normal... YOur motivation would come back to do things... you will be faster and more creative without your mind waiting and expecting that warm and fuzzy buzzy cloud on it..

SO please do not think that even when you have not puffed that you are in anyway close to being in a 'normal' mindset... All the weed you have smoked in the past few weeks are still taking their toll.... so that bummed out un-motivated attitied is not how it really is... try stopping for a month and let me know.
By the way.. i thinkg that all mental afflictions that people blame on weed are self fulfilling, and can be over come.. weed doesn't cause stupidity, only triggers it. BTW, I'm smoking a bowl as I type this. ^^

With the receiver in my hand..
#26 May 16 2004 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
639 posts
Well.. I don't really have a problem with people smoking, drinking, shooting up, or killing hookers in RL or in game... its just when they keep repeating the fact that they're "so high" or "dude, she had a lot of blood!" that I get aggrivated.

While I don't really see the lure of "being liberated" (sorry, but thats just a ******* stupid thing to call it), as long as they do their job I could care less.

[and hey... I remember someone saying that drugs are an escape for the weak... ^_^ I always liked that quote. Its not like everyone elses life is all sunshine and kittens, and you don't see me smoking up just because people are morons. If your life is so bad, or people bother you that much, that you need to go and put some strange substance into your body, then hey... you're weak ^_^ Oh... and for the person whos going to say "do you take drugs for pain/sleep or drink soda for caffine?" and try to spin me, no.. I don't. Unless I get cancer and need to be blasted with radiation, I'll pass on that.]

Sorry... I just hate self-rightous pot heads who seem to think that anyone who doesn't smoke up or doesn't like people who smoke up are evil... ^_^ So yeah... keep blazing brother... enjoy!
- To live is to eventually die.
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