Are the Atheists or the Religious a bunch o' fools? :: World of Warcraft

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#102 May 14 2004 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent

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but the bible says that baptism is a public display that u love Jesus and that u are part of God's family

Not the Catholic bible. Actually, I don't remember reading that in any bible. Catholics believe that babies are born with the burden of original sin on them. The baptism serves to wash away that sin. Thus, if not baptised, a baby would not die in a state of grace and therefor can't enter heaven.

The purpose of a baptism isn't to be a public display of faith, it is a ritual washing away of sin and being "reborn" with a spotless soul.

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#103 May 14 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good

gbaji

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Yanari the Puissant wrote:

The purpose of a baptism isn't to be a public display of faith, it is a ritual washing away of sin and being "reborn" with a spotless soul.

Hmmm... Well, the purpose of Baptism really is about keeping people inside the church with a bunch of ritual that requires that they stay active. It also helps that there's the threat of damnation of one's eternal soul if they don't stay there for the entire period of the indoctination process.

You get Baptized shortly after birth. It has much more to do with having a way for the Church to keep track of new members then anything else. So they can ask the parents: "Why isn't little Johny in Sunday School?".

First Communion is purely about requiring those kids to stay in said schooling. It's pure fabrication. You can't recieve the blessing of Jesus unless you go through the sacrament, and you can't get the sacrament unless you are actively attending all the brainwashing (excuse me "schooling") that the Church puts out there.

Confirmation is an official decree by the Church that you've completed the process of brainwashing and are now a member in full. Congratulations! It's that carrot that keeps many Catholics in their brainwashing classes through their teen years.

None of this really has anything to do with Sin, or Jesus, or any saving of one's soul. It's all about controlling masses of people. That's what religion has always been about. The sooner people realize that, the better off they will be.

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#104 May 14 2004 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent

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I know what it's really about. I'm just giving the Reader's Digest version of the catholic teachings, not their actual motives.

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#105 May 14 2004 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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but the reality is if you believe in God you're precisely, exactly, absolutely, engaging in the same mental activity as a 4 year old who belives in Santa.

I disagree with this because some people believe in somthing becasue other people believe it, so they feel more comfortable. Other times, people actually stricty have faith, because it cannot be proven. Believing in God doesn't require a lack of intellect.... although faith is uaually a choice.... for a person to believe in santa clause would really go against all grain.... all modern reason....
God belief does Not go against modern reasoning because we have the concept of faith and an omnipotent creator force.... It is normal and accepted by society in general..
We do Not have the concept of faith in fat jolly olde elf... You would have to have a really complicated reason to believe in Santa..... One doesn't need much of a reason to believe in God... in general.. DOes this make any sense?

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Kelvyquayo!?!?!? Wat did ye just say!?!?!?

Bullshiit!?!?!?

Is dat a NEW Christian term now! Don't talk yer BS christian crap to me anymore, hippocrit!
Until then, ye had me respect as human with a belief, not now piece of shiit.

Waht? were you close to converting or somthing?

So do you only respect people that suck your ****? I disagree with somthing you say and you lose respect for me?

And when did I say I was a Christian you ******* DUNCE!?!?
Well you never had my respect because every one of your posts you seem to try so hard to be a **** and troll everyone.. like you go out of your way to do it or somthing..for SOME reason.. That's cool... You're a ******* ********** but that's cool.. I really could care less. YOu have had nothing interesting to say on any of these thread in my oppinion.. You seem to be one of those people who always REact, but never just Act. This is all my own oppinion though.. I could be wrong, but I'd prefer to believe otherwise. so t(^^t)

as far as Christians go.. I don't think Christ would have been one.

As far as science goes.. it is just another tool.... to be refined and improved over time... It's not a matter of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".. because it is always broke... there will always be **** that science cannot explain until it evolves. Flip all that over.. and religion works the same way.

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#106 May 14 2004 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent

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Smasharoo wrote:

but the reality is if you believe in God you're precisely, exactly, absolutely, engaging in the same mental activity as a 4 year old who belives in Santa.

Kelvyquayo wrote:

I disagree with this because some people believe in somthing becasue other people believe it, so they feel more comfortable. Other times, people actually stricty have faith, because it cannot be proven. Believing in God doesn't require a lack of intellect.... although faith is uaually a choice.... for a person to believe in santa clause would really go against all grain.... all modern reason....

Sort of like believing in an invisible all knowing, all powerful (and apparently retired) being who lives in the sky, who will reward or punish you, but only after you die?

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God belief does Not go against modern reasoning because we have the concept of faith and an omnipotent creator force.... It is normal and accepted by society in general..

There are a few other concepts that were normal and accepted by society in general: The world was flat. Monsters and dragons were real. Flight was impossible. The universe revolved around the earth. What happened to those "normal and accepted" concepts? They don't sound very rational in this day and age, do they? Those were accepted as scientific truths, not even matters of faith!

My point is that the number of believers is immaterial to the argument. No matter how many people believe a lie (any lie) it does transform that lie to truth.

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We do Not have the concept of faith in fat jolly olde elf... You would have to have a really complicated reason to believe in Santa.....

Really? Belief in Santa Claus is not common among christian children? There aren't countless books and songs about him? Parents don't encourage their children to believe in Santa? Getting presents is a complicated reason? Not to a 4 year old!

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One doesn't need much of a reason to believe in God... in general.. DOes this make any sense?

I agree that there isn't much reason to believe in God. In fact I can't think of even one.

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#107 May 14 2004 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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4 year olds belief stuctures and the belief structures of grown adults are quite different.

Yes, old false beliefs went away because we can explain it to ourselves and convince each other of waht is true. My concept of God is a universal One-ness of everything. I don't know of science will ever explain that. Trying to pin down a reletive concept like "God" is fultile. It's be like trying to demonstrate the behavior of all mammals with a dolphin.

Personally, with the things in life I have experienced, I don't need a reason to believe in "God". I Know Somthing is there. I don't pretend taht we can strap human words on waht it is and try to get logical minds to grasp somthing very ilogical. nontheless, there are some very strange things in this universe.

Edited, Sat May 15 00:50:06 2004 by Kelvyquayo

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#108 May 14 2004 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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If you're really interested, here's me stirring up more trouble in the FFXI forum.

remember don't post on it ^^, it'll show up there.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1079463380924964072

My main points from it:

Scientifically I tend to see it as a matter of ordered vibrations (music..read the Ainuindale)... all of these vibrations and pattern of the physical plane are virbrating at the same rate.... thus are in the same dimension.... but there are different'tones' to this universal pattern(song?) and our minds(souls, ids, supo-egos, electro-chemical signals, wahtever) are comprised of ever changing tones within this.... Damn I'm on a ramble. So in effect... if we can learn how to play this "instrument" taht we call life or wahtever.... why can't we change reality??? they've even found taht electrons can communicate over far distances..well... WE have electrons don't we??... All I'm saying is if you have enough faith anything is possible...... just ask Peter Pan or Jesus Christ.

I myself do not believe in the "super-natural". as this inplies somthing that is alien to this universe or somthing... no I believe that the force that is generalized as 'magic' is the most natural thing in existance... and is everything. I think you're problem may be semantics.

I personally beleive taht if you strip the Names off of all of the beliefs out there..... off of everything... strip off anything the Ego can clutch onto... take all that away and ou can come pretty close to the truth...... the only problem is trying to thnk without words..... trying to thing woth the 'child self or Id)....

I believe it take the Id to regognize the infinate and divine in things.... becuase if we look at it wth our Ego... we only associate mundane words to things... the Id sees things like a child... Only in Pictures and Emotions....

People nowadays I find are totally out of touch with their 'child/Id' and only see things at face value... not realizing taht "life is a placebo, mascarading as a simile"<----TMBG lyric.

BTW... there is a name for people like me....

SCHIZOTYPAL

i love how people rationalize what they can't understand as a mental disorder... I heard some lady had 10s of cats and wouldn't get rid of them... the made a Cat-lovers mental disorder after her.... hilarious...

personally think we do reincarnat.... but Not so much as 'body-hopping'.. but more that different aspects of our 'Being' have their feet stepping in multiple "time" periods at once.... think of it... We have ONE eternal soul.. that is strewn across the time-line... we are always there.. and here.. but you as a human with human senses can only percieve one at a time.. otherwise you'd go quite crazy...

i see death as just one instance in one long life..not the Last thing, but the Least thing.....

Why we are on Earth n the First place???? Earth i think is kind of a cosmic incubator for souls...... eventually wehn we grow enough.. we can finnally break out of the cycle and go to where I couldn't imagine....

I do believe my ultimate question however is whether there is and END.. or if it keeps on going.. I'm sure it is somehow a little bit of both some how... i dunno.. I'm a Libra.. I can never make up my mind bout such things...... maybe after a few more incarnations....

/ramble off

Edited, Sat May 15 01:24:33 2004 by Kelvyquayo

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#109 May 15 2004 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent

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Well in one way it its, but remember that santa have been proved to be made up, from the german story bout that guy St.Nicklas or anything,visiting the orphans homes giving presents to the nice, and uhm, beating up those who were bad...you get the point.

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#110 May 16 2004 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent

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okay first things first, i have to bash some christians/ catholics; Jesus is not your god, he is the son of god and nothing more than a prophet/over glorified priest. not gonna mention any names but too many over you have incorrectly used the name Jesus instead of god. read your own bible not once in there does it mention jesus being god, they are and always will be 2 seperate entities for those who believe.

okay now all catholics and catholic denomantion bashing aside, personally im agnostic. yes I do believe there is a superior being but no i dont believe anyone religion is correct. if you ask me when the time comes i think the catholics are gonna be the farthest from the truth anyways, and the mormons are just some kinda of kiddie cult.

The only reason I can explain my belief that there is a superior being is WHO THE HECK ELSE WOULD MAKE SUCH THINGS AS B*TCHES AND BEER OR ANY OF THE THOUSANDS OF THINGS MEN ENJOY

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#111 May 16 2004 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good

Demea

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okay first things first, i have to bash some christians/ catholics; Jesus is not your god, he is the son of god

Maybe you missed the annoucement, but there is a little thing called the "Holy Trinity". God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So really, Jesus is only a third of God, but he's really all God.

I'm not saying that makes any sense, and that's part of the reason I have qualms with Catholicism, but that's the way it's supposed to work.

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The only reason I can explain my belief that there is a superior being is WHO THE HECK ELSE WOULD MAKE SUCH THINGS AS B*TCHES AND BEER OR ANY OF THE THOUSANDS OF THINGS MEN ENJOY

Other men.

Twiztid

Edited, Sun May 16 03:50:13 2004 by TwiztidSamurai

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#112 May 16 2004 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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Jesus is only a third of God, but he's really all God.

I'm not saying that makes any sense, and that's part of the reason I have qualms with Catholicism, but that's the way it's supposed to work.

That Triplicity thing is in alot of "faiths".

wiccans

the 3 Fates

Celtic and Pre-celtic

I think the Idea of 3s being sacred has to do with it being divisible by the sacred number 9. 9 being sacred because of the number of moons that it takes for a woman to give birth..

and everyone knows.. things happen in threes ^^.... that came from our forgotten pagan origins.

It's another thing the Christians adapted for their own.

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#113 May 16 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent

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Just have something for you all to think about...

This is a small group of people arguing over religion. I see it everday. Everywhere. People get heated over religion. Just like this forum. Religion causes more hate then anything else I've ever seen from people. If you look at the world around us and think of people really kept there beliefs to themselves... would we have so many wars? Would we fight so often?

My personal opinion it is the one thing mankind made to destroy itself. It is very sad. There may not be peace without it thats not what I'm trying to say, but if you truly think about it this world would be a better place if religion was not so heavily believed.

My opinion entirely but I feel strongly about this. I can't stand fighting about religion or arguing. There is no fact, there is nothing making it right out of all the religions that exist. Many people try to say they dont believe in forcing there views on others or whatever well if you do you are one of the very few people.

Do you think people would get mad at me if I handed out "Why it's good to be an Atheist:)" booklets? You bet your *** they would.

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#114 May 16 2004 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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Athiest Manifesto

now burn in hell all you heathens!!!
Gnashing of teeth I tell you!!
GNASHING OF TEETH!!

(^_~)

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#116 May 16 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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“And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments. . .” Luke 16:23

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#117 May 16 2004 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent

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Ok, first, I don't expect anyone to abandon their ideas because I know that I won't abandon mine. I also respect people who make up their own minds and don't just believe what they are told because I have done the same. Just because I am Christian and millions of others hold the same BASIC ideas as me, does not mean that I blindly follow others. I have come to my own conclusions about my religion and actually disagree with many people. I also ask that people show the same respect for my beliefs even if you do not agree.

I don't believe in sitting back and expecting God to take care of everthing, I believe that if I expect anything of God, He also expects things of me. I believe in making this world a better place and I don't believe calling people fools will go towards this end. I don't expect people to understand my belief in God if they have no belief in a higher power because it's a foreign idea, even if you were brought up in a church of some kind.

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#118 May 16 2004 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent

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Also, on baptism, many denominations have different practices. For Catholics, it is one of the seven sacraments. I was raised in a Methodist church and was baptised at birth but did not understand the meaning of being a christian until the age of 14 or 15. I have not been baptised since out of respect for my mom's beliefs because I do not believe that it is necessary. I attend a baptist church with my husband and daughter now and I had my daughter baptised at birth as a profession for myself to raise my daughter in a happy, stable and Christian home. Later, if she becomes a Christian, she may be baptised as a public profession of her belief.

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#119 May 16 2004 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent

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Whee... this post was most educational ^_^

Heres the deal: People believe in that they believe in. That it. Some peoples beliefs are "forced" on them by their parents, and some are just created over time. I like the idea of God. Regardless of how it makes me have the "mentality of a 4 year old", I'll stick by my beliefs. You can stand over me and shout about how God is scientifically & realistically impossible. I'm just gonna smile and let you think what you want.
If I'm wrong, who cares? If you're wrong, who cares? We all die in the end, and sit in a box underground while we slowly rot... Won't you at least let me live with the idea that my good deeds in life will be rewarded somehow after I'm dead? Or do you have to take everything away from me? ^_^

I don't press my beliefs on others, and I'm more than willing to let other beliefs influence me (I'm a big fan of Zen Buddhism as well). If you don't believe in God, Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Hamburgler then rock on with your bad self. All I know is that the thought of a fat *** man in red stuffing himself down my fireplace in order to give me gifts made my ******* year as a kid.

/sigh

There have been many good points made by a lot of people... You don't believe in God, cool. I do... so stop calling me a dunce and trying to pursuade me into thinking something else... And yeah... Jesus wouldn't have been a Christian... he was Jewish. ^_^

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#120 May 17 2004 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent

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Too lazy to read this whole thing... Anyway, I think it should be noted that whether anybody "believes" they are right they should take a look from the other side of the argument. As I have noticed, the Christianic community has one major argument against the Atheist community... Prove that God isn't real. Well, let's flip that, prove God IS real.

In a sense it is ignorance in itself to merely believe in something. A belief is a notion without any solid or factual evidence... So, instead of trying to say who is right and who is wrong, why not look for an answer?

"I don't claim to know anything, I can only speculate" maybe everybody should look into that statement before jumping to a conclusion that will inevitably be deemed wrong or right. As for the current state of the world, it's rather pathetic, you can't say God without offending somebody because that doesn't fit into their beliefs... Get over it, it's pointless, everybody will believe what they want to, whether or not they take time to look for an answer or not. I honestly doubt that anybody will succeed in changing anybody elses opinion on religion.

As for everybody that believes in whatever they believe in... Get over yourself, you may be just as wrong as the person you call wrong, you're no better than anybody else, you just have an opinion.

Edit* I charge each and every one of you this one task... Prove to anybody that what you believe is the absolute truth with ABSOLUTELY no room for doubt.

Edited, Mon May 17 01:07:19 2004 by Valhallan

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#121 May 17 2004 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent

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Pssst... Valhallan... Faith is the belief in something you can't prove (or something like that). So while I suppose I should say I have faith in there being a god, I also believe that more things taste like chicken then really should... ^_^

Oh... and good luck proving ANYTHING with absolutely no room for doubt... nothing is 100% true, other than the fact that NOTHING IS 100% TRUE.

Oh... and on a total side note, those WWJD wrist bands suck... I mean come on! You know what Jesus would have done? Given you the damn bracelet instead of charging you a dollar for it! ******...

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#122 May 17 2004 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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well, in my own defense, I feel no need to prove anything to any person but myself, and "God".

Everyone and everything else are just warped manifestations of my twisted psyche anyway. Why should I care?

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#123 May 17 2004 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent

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Ooooh oooooh! Valhallah!

Prove that this isn't true:

Kelvyquayo wrote:

Everyone and everything else are just warped manifestations of my twisted psyche

HAH! Do that, and maybe someone will try to prove whether God is there, or if its just a weirdly shapen cloud! Or swamp gas!! A giant monkey!! Yeti! (ok... I'm weird and its late... x_x)

Edited: What? You want a reason?! TOUGH!

Edited, Mon May 17 01:33:47 2004 by ChibiMagatsu

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#124 May 17 2004 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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maybe we are part of yours...

ô_o

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#125 May 17 2004 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent

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Oh... and good luck proving ANYTHING with absolutely no room for doubt... nothing is 100% true, other than the fact that NOTHING IS 100% TRUE.

I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure you just missed the entire point of what I posted... That being that you CAN'T prove anything to be absolute. If God were real, then what right would man have to name anything/what makes the name man gave it correct? Aside from semantics. On a side note, I'm quite sure you're aware that what you said about nothing being 100% true other than the fact that nothing is 100% true is a complete contradiction. So, basically you've proven yourself either ignorant or that was a sad attempt at a joke.

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Ooooh oooooh! Valhallah!

Prove that this isn't true:

Kelvyquayo wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone and everything else are just warped manifestations of my twisted psyche

... Refer to above statement.

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#126 May 17 2004 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent

Kelvyquayo

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If God were real, then what right would man have to name anything/what makes the name man gave it correct?

*i put on my robe and wizard hat*

I think Things operate on many levels. My theories are based on 26 years of research.

Anything related to 'Names', or words of anykind are EGO-centric. The 'Ego' being the "talking" self. The part of ou that is on the surface. THe part of you that regognizes thing in logical, mundane, everyday ways. This part begins at birth and is built up layer upon layer and is prety much your normal personality.

The OTHER parts of you.. for simplicities sake I'll call it the "sub-concious". That part of you was you as a child MINUS the Ego. This part doesn't require words. It's all in the emotional response.

So I guess my point is that there is a little slice of reality that man is allowed to play with in the world of the Ego. But Names themselves have no real meaning... they are but more layers over the Truth.. which NO MAN can name.

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Are the Atheists or the Religious a bunch o' fools?Follow