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Courtmarshal of some certain soldiers.Follow

#1 May 11 2004 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent

i dont know about you guys but am i the only one who doesnt give a sh*t about what they did?
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#2 May 11 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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dont know about you guys but am i the only one who doesnt give a sh*t about what they did?


Until THEY do it you! I would like to know how ye would feel about this abuse thingy, if it were yer gentialia being gnawed on by dogs!?!?

Abuse is abuse. Wrong is **** wrong!
Ye know this! Peeps like you are the reason why this great nation has went ****! Peeps like you are running the nation now.
Itz a national shame, but peeps like you no care! Unless, itz u THEY be doing it too! Then, ye hollers like stuck lil-piggies!

Yer way of thinking is wat give FACSITS the freedoms to do what they do!
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#3 May 11 2004 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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am i the only one who doesnt give a sh*t about what they did?
It's not suprising. Youth and a complete lack of compassion and empathy often go hand in hand.Smiley: snore

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#4 May 11 2004 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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rack this
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#5 May 11 2004 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
wow it seems some (not everyone who replyed to this post) of your were major losers in highschool. did you get picked on to much or abused by yoru father? you should go see a psychiatrist :)
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#6 May 11 2004 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not suprising. Youth and a complete lack of compassion and empathy often go hand in hand.


I find it hard to find compassion or feel any empathy for those that were abused. The prisoners in those photos were in the section reserved for the worst criminals in Iraq. Murderers, terrorists, etc. I cannot bring myself to feel any pity for them.

On the other hand, I have no pity on the soldiers that did mistreat those prisoners. Our soldiers should be better than that -- they should reflect what this country believes in, and they failed in that.
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#7 May 11 2004 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
yeah i agree on that part, it was wrong for them to do that in the first place but all they did was emabarass them very much if im not mistaken, no one was badly injured or killed inhumanely. and these were bad people so they deserved it but im just saying why is the news making such a big deal about it? its ridiculous.
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#8 May 11 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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It really doesn't matter if they were "bad people" or not. Ultimately, we are fighting to establish a rule of law instead of one of power and abuse. To use those same methods on prisoners undermines that message.

It is absolutely imperitive that those involved are caught, tried, and punished for their actions. Our system is not about abusing prisoners, no matter what they've done. That's supposed to be one of our strengths. If we don't show the world that we don't tolerate that within our military ranks, then we'll have a hard time telling people that we can't tolerate it in their governments.

It's just that simple.
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#9 May 11 2004 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
*applause* well said, thanks for the info, ive changed my view on the subject alittle now.
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#10 May 11 2004 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Our soldiers went there to right the things done wrong, and show that the people in power are not always abusive. They embarassed our country in front of the entire world at a time when we are quickly losing our allies. How can we expect help from other countries, which we need desperately, if we can't even control our own soldiers. They have to be punished quickly so our country can possible hold off so much damage done to our reputation.
#11 May 12 2004 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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gbaji summed it up very well in my opinion. I saw another poster mention that this section where the abuse was taking place, was reserved for the WORST of the WORST. Even if this were true, I fail to see how it affects what happened.

Like gbaji mentioned laws and systems have been made to prevent this type of thing. Unfortunately, the entire texts of all the Geneva Conventions and Protocols make for quite a bit of reading. If anyone is interested, I thoroughly reccomend this site...
http://www.genevaconventions.org/
(You'll probably mainly be interested in the Third Convention)

I try to stay out of the three-ring circus known as politics, but, this goes a bit beyond politics unfortunately. It's a very interesting test of morals. Many sites of a certain political orientation tout the fact, that these POWs, were in fact not POWs. The Pentagon really doesn't think of terrorists as POWs and some people claim those were the types in this prison, although I have yet to see any military figure claim this, so I doubt it has much validity. At any rate, this kind of thing definitely is a bit of a stumble for a nation advocating freedom, justice, and other excellent ideals.

Edited, Wed May 12 06:32:20 2004 by Germonick
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#12 May 12 2004 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Our soldiers were led to believe that they were righting the wrongs of 9/11. In this situation I would not have probably done the same. But if you told me I could publically humilate the 19 guys who perpetuated 9/11 before it happened I would probably sign up.

Bush is to blame for misleading our country and our troops into thinking this was more then an act of greed. He led our troops and our country into believing this was a vengance for 9/11 and some of our troops took this too seriously.

I say if you are looking for a culprit impeach the real criminal and not the 800th MP. While what they did was wrong, the were acting out in a manner accepted by our powers that be. They were disgracing a group of people they believed were responsible for 9/11.

I will never be able to watch Fox News report on Iraq and not scoff at their labeling of this as the "War on Terror". Doubt me watch them sometime and see them bring up a map of Iraq without the caption "War on Terror" and we will talk.
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#13 May 12 2004 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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I do not agree with the way the prisoners were treated.

However, I do blame the media even more. Those pictures did not need to be broadcast. It is going to cost even more US Lives as all it is going to do is inflame the muslim nations. The whole reason behind what they did was to try and get Bush out of the White House. They don't care about the man that got his head SAWED, not cut, SAWED off with a knife. This may not have happened if the media was not out for ratings, the White House, and actually gave a d@mn about lives.

Most of the problems we have today is because they (the media) do not show positive stories. They only want to report on the negative--death, greed, ****. Don't rely on what CBS, Fox, or any other news channel is feeding you. Search out some soldier's Blogs (there are plenty) and you will see the positives far outweight the negatives of what we are doing there. Clean water, schools (without arms caches), hospitals that people can actually get in as all the weapons have been removed, and power.

Do I agree with what is going on now? NO. But we are there and we cannot leave or it will create a maelstrom that will quickly get out of hand. You think Saddam was bad? Get some religious zealot as the leader and it will be 1000 times worse.

Ugh...rant off.
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#14 May 12 2004 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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How did the pictures not need to be broadcast?Would you have the American people not know about something like this? I think its important that things like this are documented and that the public knows, that things can go wrong, even in a law based military setting. Photos have the power to move people, and I would argue, that although these photos put a very negative light on the U.S, it should definitely inspire some change to our apparently-flawed system. I would definitely have to disagree with blaming the deaths of that man and possible future lives on the media.
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#15 May 12 2004 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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and these were bad people so they deserved it but im just saying why is the news making such a big deal about it? its ridiculous.
And there's Trunks/Skeet/whoever, eager to jump in and prove my point for me.

Thanks, sweetie!
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#16 May 12 2004 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Media perfers to show the bad news, they like beatings, deaths, shootings, it gets people attention. As a race we love to destroy things, and each other.
Good stuff happening people as showed on the News stations tends to be boring.


Same as the beheading most recently, something that should of never been aired. No telling how the family and friends feel.

Edited, Wed May 12 13:57:42 2004 by Donuil
#17 May 12 2004 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The abuse is taking place on both sides. It's just a matter of who gets caught, and whose evidence the media gets a hold of. So in a sense I have to agree with "Who gives a ****?". It's not like the abuse is one sided.
#18 May 12 2004 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to agree with "Who gives a sh*t?". It's not like the abuse is one sided.
So then it's okay that Berg's (the U.S. contracter) head was sawed off.

It's not like the abuse is one sided.

Let's just keep going back and forth with ever escalating acts of torture, perversions and abhorrent behavior. That's a great and effective way to teach those dirty animals about freedom and democracy.

It's not like the abuse would be one sided.

Never mind that we've been insisting that we're there to establish a free and democratic society for the Iraqi people. I mean, rape and torture is very copacetic with that vision, right?

I know there are a number of reading comprehension challenged people here in The Sandbox so let me make it clear that I am in no way saying that acts of torture by either side are acceptable.
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#19 May 12 2004 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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I said in one sense. I'm sorry if I sounded callous. I did not mean to. Actually I was sickened by those mens actions. What I mean is I dont care about one more than I do the other.(Americans torturing prisoners, or Iraqis cuttion prisoners heads off.) Both make me sick.
#20 May 12 2004 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I would definitely have to disagree with blaming the deaths of that man and possible future lives on the media.


If you believe that our media cares to fix our flawed systems then you really need to take a look around you. They don't care about fixing problems. They are more happy when they cause MORE problems. The ONLY reason these pictures were broadcast by CBS is it is sweeps. These pictures = ratings. They want ratings. They could care less who dies because of it. After all, that will just give them some more stories to broadcast.

Furthermore, the people getting in trouble for the pictures are scapegoats. The system is not going to be fixed as the military does not see anything wrong with it. They just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar..so to speak.

By the way, expect to see more mutilations as there are still over 50 civilians missing in Iraq.

I don't like the pictures. I don't agree with the way they are being treated. However, before these pictures were leaked how many lives did these save by getting these prisoners to talk? The problem is we will never know. We will know how many lives that they cause to be lost because of them being shown...that will be broadcast 24/7.
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#21 May 12 2004 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Well whats going on down there now is what I state as horrible...its a shame, and should never have happened!
Shaaaaaaaameeeeeeee........
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#22 May 12 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Whoever the victims are, thats just to set a bad example of themselves and whom they represent!
Dont be so biase now...

Edited, Wed May 12 17:49:29 2004 by Eyap
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#23 May 12 2004 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Waah, we made them do **** things. They're still alive, right?

Point made.
#24 May 12 2004 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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If you believe that our media cares to fix our flawed systems then you really need to take a look around you. They don't care about fixing problems. They are more happy when they cause MORE problems. The ONLY reason these pictures were broadcast by CBS is it is sweeps. These pictures = ratings. They want ratings. They could care less who dies because of it. After all, that will just give them some more stories to broadcast.

That's ludicrous. Everything is brodcast for ratings, but sweeps hadnothing to do with it. If they had them in January they wouldn't have held onto them until may.


Quote:

Furthermore, the people getting in trouble for the pictures are scapegoats. The system is not going to be fixed as the military does not see anything wrong with it. They just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar..so to speak.

They are scapegoats. Let's not forget, however, that they're also GUILTY OF WAR CRIMES.

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By the way, expect to see more mutilations as there are still over 50 civilians missing in Iraq.

Wow, Karnak. You're pre-cognative abilities are stunning.

Quote:

I don't like the pictures. I don't agree with the way they are being treated. However, before these pictures were leaked how many lives did these save by getting these prisoners to talk?

Completely unkowable. How many lives did the techniques cost when we realeased innocent Iraqi's back into the community to tell tales of torture?

If you want to preform some sort of moral calculus on the cost/benefit of using torture to interrorgate I don't think you'd like the results.

There's an expression in the intel commuinity: "what you want to see or hear isn't nessicarily the truth". It sounds pretty obvious, but it's not. If you interrogate an innocent person long enough with the sorts of techniques in question, they will almost allways confess to whatever you want them to. To the Lindburgh Kidnapping if you ask them to.

The tricky thing is that the threat of torture can be an effective motivating factor while ACTUAL torture almost never is. That's why you'll see so many pictures come out of this. Sshowing someone a picture of what might happen to them if they don't cooperate is more effective than actually doing it to them.

Quote:

The problem is we will never know. We will know how many lives that they cause to be lost because of them being shown...that will be broadcast 24/7.

Yeah, one?

It's a regualr holocaust of US civillians.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a ****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ****. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#25 May 13 2004 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see what your getting at here, the pictures may have improved rating, but your sidestepping my question. You mentioned that you disliked the pictures, would you just prefer to not know about these things? The media does pursue ratings, but that DOES NOT mean that CBS released pictures trying to get an American's head chopped off; nor does it make the nature of the photographs any less important.
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#26 May 13 2004 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Thu May 13 14:56:19 2004 by Germonick
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#27 May 13 2004 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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MrShoes wrote:
Waah, we made them do **** things. They're still alive, right?

Point made.


I don't quite understand the point your making here. Just because these particular prisoners are still alive, does not make any less important the "**** things" that have happened to them.

And for future reference, there have been a number of deaths of prisoners in , here is an article mentioning it

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=1842366&nav=3HvDMrWm

Here's another article that mentions some of the pictures that weren't publicly released, that were shown to Congress last week I believe.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/13/1084289818093.html

At any rate, things like this are quite serious, and I'm not sure "Waah" is the appropriate phrase to describe what's going on.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post, I appear to be having cookie problems.

Edited, Thu May 13 14:58:31 2004 by Germonick
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