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#27 May 03 2004 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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for those of you who have posted meaningful insight: good job for being valuable citizens in this increasingly depressing political situation. for those of you adding pointless drivel to up your number of posts, go away.
if your still here, i thought i would post some information on the libertarian party since it seemed to be a recurring term.
the libertarian party is essentially a party that believes that the federal government should return to its constitutional functions, and stop putting its nose in places it shouldnt. the libertarian party has social views generally in line with the democratic party, while its economic/fiscal/tax views are more in line with the republicans. the libertarian party is currently the leading 3rd party in the United States (not like that means it could actually get a president elected in the next 20-100 years). you might want to check it out...
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#28 May 03 2004 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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How eloquent.

I tend not waste eloquence on those who are so stunningly ignorant that can't decipher something said in jest from the literal meaning. It would be for naught.

Edited, Mon May 3 18:03:10 2004 by Smasharoo
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#29 May 03 2004 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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the libertarian party is essentially a party that believes that the federal government should return to its constitutional functions, and stop putting its nose in places it shouldnt. the libertarian party has social views generally in line with the democratic party, while its economic/fiscal/tax views are more in line with the republicans. the libertarian party is currently the leading 3rd party in the United States (not like that means it could actually get a president elected in the next 20-100 years). you might want to check it out...

The libertarian party is a joke. It's the Republican Party without the social agenda. Libertarians vote Republican, give moeny to the RNc, and act in every way like Republicans. Don't waste your time with the front.

The Libertarian party is rarely the "leading third party" in any election of consequence, particularly Presidential elections. The Green party was the leading third party famously in the last election, and there's often other random third parties that massively out poll Libertarian party candidates.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#30 May 03 2004 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a gag. A joke. Not a comment on American politics that both of the main parties are evil monsters and we should all vote libertarian. People who try to find philosophy in the Simpsons worry me.


Let me direct you to years and years of art/satire/theatre/music that was and is politically and philosphically relevent.

You could throw a dart blindfolded in the hallway OUTSIDE a library and still hit something in this vein.

Eb
#31 May 03 2004 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Kerry.
#32 May 03 2004 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm... couple points:

yossarian wrote:
Kerry. Kerry's economic policy will benefit you unless you are making scads of money (six figures minimum) or most all of your income is from long term capital gains or you plan to die very soon (before Bush's mounting debt has to be repaid) and don't give a dingo's kidney about how much your survivers (if any) have to pay for this wild orgy of defecit spending.


Not realy accurate. You will gain from the Republican economic plan if you have *any* investments, or you make any signficant salary (50kish would be a very clear demarcation point, but probably lower then that). Um... And the "hidden" issue is that the Republican plan is designed to increase the numbers of people who get jobs and make good salaries. It's very wrong to look at what you're making today and make a judgement. It's much more accurate to say that your odds of making more money, or having a better job several years down the line is vastly increased if Rep economic policies are followed.


It's much more accurate to say that Kerry's economic plan will benefit you if you are currently recieving some form of public assistance, make less then 20k a year, and either assume you will never have a better job, or actively intend to avoid doing so. You are essentially working to guarantee that those who don't get good jobs will still have luxuries, but all at the expense of good jobs. Wouldn't you rather have the job that pays 40+k a year, instead of getting public assistance that makes your 25k a year job *seem* like it's 40k? I would... Because I don't like my government deciding how to spend my money. But that's just me...


Quote:
That's why in my state (California) student tuition for university and college increases whenever the economy so much as hiccups. Students don't vote, and since many move right at the times our elections are held (Fall and Spring) it is not so easy to re-register in time for them. An accident? Maybe.


Hmmm... Part of that is apathy on the part of students, but a good part is the scam artists that pass for ballot measure takers and "student registration" at local campuses. I take classes at a local university on occasion. I moved from my last address about 5 years ago. I never re-registered myself to my new address (like at the post office or DMV). I have, however, entered my updated address at every single one of those little booths that are usually at local universities (and grocery stores and malls). I am still officially registered at my old address (which fortunately is closer to my work then were I'm at now, so it's not a big deal to just drive there to vote).

Could it be that most students *think* they are being registered, but since most of those booths only really care about collecting names for their ballot measures, and never seem to actually send in the registration information, that they're ending up not getting registered (and perhaps having no idea why)? Dunno. Maybe I've just been amazingly unlucky. But I'd estimate that between campus, mall, and grocery store booths, I've probably provided my current address at least a dozen times in the last 5 years, and not one of those got to the registrar's office...


Coincidence? I think not.
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#33 May 03 2004 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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You will gain from the Republican economic plan if you have *any* investments, or you make any signficant salary (50kish would be a very clear demarcation point, but probably lower then that).

Hahahahahahah 50k

Ahhahahaha.

Sorry, ****** myself laughing there, I need to go clean up. 50k. Funny.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#34 May 03 2004 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
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good job for being valuable citizens in this increasingly depressing political situation




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#35 May 03 2004 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Not realy accurate. You will gain from the Republican economic plan if you have *any* investments, or you make any signficant salary (50kish would be a very clear demarcation point, but probably lower then that). Um... And the "hidden" issue is that the Republican plan is designed to increase the numbers of people who get jobs and make good salaries. It's very wrong to look at what you're making today and make a judgement. It's much more accurate to say that your odds of making more money, or having a better job several years down the line is vastly increased if Rep economic policies are followed.


Riiiiight. Because unemployment under the regime of Bush hasn't skyrocketed. And the tax cuts have affected everyone not just those earning the top 1% in income...And do you have any idea how many people make less than 50k a year? Check on some statistics and get back to me.

And god forbid we talk about the human rights issues! No doubt bringing up the 'A' word will get this nuked...But separation of church and state is just a cliche I suppose, not something that is actually necessary for the survival of a secular democracy! Cause I want to live in a theocracy!

I have to go home now.

#36 May 03 2004 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Democracies fall when the elected leaders try to buy the most votes with popularity instead of doing what's right. I like Bush. He's unpolitically correct and the rest of the world fears us as long as we put people like him at the head of the Executive Branch. I don't think we need to put the most intellectual person at the head of the military just someone who can act at the right time. The deal breaker for me was when Kerry stated that he would not "classify us as at war with terroism." Sorry but these people have been at war with us since the nineties it's only now that we go to war with them. September Eleventh was the culmination of years of turning your back to a serious problem. I may not like Bush but at least he knows we're at war.
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#37 May 03 2004 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's a thought: Six digit salaries don't make you rich! If you overtax someone at this bracket then you hurt a potential entrepreneur. It's pure lunacy to say that just because you make over 200K that you deserve to bear a huge burden of taxation. Say whatever you want to say but not only are most businesses in Ameica under private ownership there are even bigger fiscal realities running the econmy in a free market system. Those who make the most spend the most. If someone didnt have the money to buy Mercedes SUVs then people in Alabama would lose their jobs. Class warfare only serves to tear down the best economic system the world has. When you raise taxes everybody pays the price.
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#38 May 03 2004 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Democracies fall when the elected leaders try to buy the most votes with popularity instead of doing what's right.

What? I'm not sure I understand this. Are you implying that Democracies fail when the elected leaders try to win votes with...popularity? I'm not even going to bother. Re-write that as something other than gibberish.

Quote:

I like Bush. He's unpolitically correct and the rest of the world fears us as long as we put people like him at the head of the Executive Branch.

Firstly, Bush is entirely politically correct. He's run completely by poll numbers. He's the definition of politically correct. Unless be politically incorrect you mean "not liberal", in which case there aren't going to be any Republican's who are poltically correct.


Quote:

I don't think we need to put the most intellectual person at the head of the military just someone who can act at the right time. The deal breaker for me was when Kerry stated that he would not "classify us as at war with terroism."

Yeah, who wants the smart guy in charge of people's lives. Let's go with the guy that looks best in a cowboy hat. YEHHAW!!
Look, you can't be "at war" with a methodology. It's like declaring war on Haiku. It's an assanine concept.


Quote:

Sorry but these people have been at war with us since the nineties it's only now that we go to war with them. September Eleventh was the culmination of years of turning your back to a serious problem. I may not like Bush but at least he knows we're at war.

At war with Iraq...who had what to do with 9-11 again?

Edited, Mon May 3 19:10:04 2004 by Smasharoo
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#39 May 03 2004 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Well I'm gonna declare war on Haiku.

Its rigid syllabic structure is stunting my creative development.
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#40 May 03 2004 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Trickybeck the sly,
you have a very small mind,
what's wrong with poems?!?!

Edited, Mon May 3 19:25:55 2004 by Altaramere
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#41 May 03 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Let me direct you to years and years of art/satire/theatre/music that was and is politically and philosphically relevent
Let me direct you to the idea of the throw-away gag. Just because you think you've found deep meaning in a Tom & Jerry cartoon doesn't mean it's there.
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#42 May 03 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Contractions violate the structure of a Haiku.

For future refrence.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#43 May 03 2004 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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sheebasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
Not realy accurate. You will gain from the Republican economic plan if you have *any* investments, or you make any signficant salary (50kish would be a very clear demarcation point, but probably lower then that). Um... And the "hidden" issue is that the Republican plan is designed to increase the numbers of people who get jobs and make good salaries. It's very wrong to look at what you're making today and make a judgement. It's much more accurate to say that your odds of making more money, or having a better job several years down the line is vastly increased if Rep economic policies are followed.


Riiiiight. Because unemployment under the regime of Bush hasn't skyrocketed.


Are you asking? Or telling? Or just implying? Do you actually know the unemployment figures for the last 5 years or so? Or are you just parroting what you've heard, from other people who think they know something?

List the unemployement rates for the last 5 or 6 years, then show me a "skyrocketing" unemployment rate. Shouldn't be hard if it's true...

Quote:
And the tax cuts have affected everyone not just those earning the top 1% in income...


Really? Did you pay more or less taxes in relation to your total income this year compared to say 4 or 5 years ago? I'm betting less. So yeah. Those "tiny" tax cuts did help you. Maybe not a lot, but they did.

Um... And who the **** do you think hires people? Yup. The same "top 1%". A tax break for them means more money for them to hire people and/or expand businesses. All of which results in more jobs, higher salaries, and lower relative prices at the markets. So yes. You do benefit from tax cuts even when they don't cut them for you specifically.


Quote:
And do you have any idea how many people make less than 50k a year? Check on some statistics and get back to me.


Sure lots. I'd guesstimate about 80% make less then that number. There'd be a lot less if we didn't cripple businesses with taxes so we can toss money at entitlement programs. The exact dollar amounts aren't that significant (money is all relative after all). It's what you can buy with that money that does. In every way, leaving as much money as possible in the hands of those who actually hire people and make products results in the most people having the most prosperity across the board.

Even for those who actually get more out of their tax dollars then they put in, it's a deal with the devil really. You are essentialy giving the government some of your money (and some of the money you might have made!), which you could have chosen to spend in any way you wanted, and in return the government gives you a service. Essentially, the government is deciding how to spend a portion of your income.


Taxes under Clinton were the highest in relation to GNP that they have ever been (Ok, since 1962, which is as far as the CBO online tables go). Taxes under GWB are the lowest they've been during that same time period. Whether you like that or not is dependant on your thought about taxation. But don't imply that Bush has been a ***** up domestically. He's actually done quite well considereing he was handed an ecnomoy in steep recession.



Quote:
And god forbid we talk about the human rights issues! No doubt bringing up the 'A' word will get this nuked...But separation of church and state is just a cliche I suppose, not something that is actually necessary for the survival of a secular democracy! Cause I want to live in a theocracy!



No you live in a republic. Which means that everyone (yes. Including the religious nutcases) has a right to attempt to pass any law(s) they want. Doesn't mean they'll succeed. There is nothing "evil" about the attempt either. Just becasue you and I disagree with the Religious Right's goals does not mean that are wrong for having them. That attitude is more un-american then theirs is...


Oh. And since when was separation of church and state a human rights issue? I guess if you're talking about abortion, sure. But that's just one part of the cookie...

I have to go home now.[/quote]
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#44 May 03 2004 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
[/quote]Actually, someone says "I'll vote for a third party!" and Kang says "Go ahead! Throw your vote away! Hahaha!" and then they show Ross Perot get all mad and punch his fist through his hat.

It's a gag. A joke. Not a comment on American politics that both of the main parties are evil monsters and we should all vote libertarian. People who try to find philosophy in the Simpsons worry me.


I completely agree. All I'm saying is, *if* you think both parties are horrible, vote anyhow. I'm very comfortably for one of the major parties. People don't vote anyhow. Why not? I don't know - but I think they should. My only point.
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#45 May 03 2004 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Really? Did you pay more or less taxes in relation to your total income this year compared to say 4 or 5 years ago? I'm betting less. So yeah. Those "tiny" tax cuts did help you. Maybe not a lot, but they did.

I don't want to get into the wall of ******** here, besides it's other people's turn to kick the mental cripple, but I have one question.

Assuming you're right, and the middle class paid less total taxes, who's going to pay for the $7 Trillion National Debit?

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole "cut taxes, increase spending" economic policy in play. Can you explain to me how the billion dollar a day defecit that causes get's paid for again? Is it voodoo?
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#46 May 03 2004 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
I have no idea who's gonna win. Bush has a lot against him because Kerry is able to because people have seen him in action. When Kerry started critizinsing the AWOL though, that's when it looks like he's gettin a bit desperate. The army would've cauten it by now. Plus, one of the biggest elections of our time, Bush and Gore, NOTHING was mentioned of this. I'm for Bush, but it's up to the rest of you to decide.
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#47 May 03 2004 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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When Kerry started critizinsing the AWOL though, that's when it looks like he's gettin a bit desperate.

Yeah, nothing's more desperate than attacking someone who didn't show up for being AWOL.

Well, attacking a guy who won a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts for not being sensative to veteran's issues I suppose, but that's so ludicrously and transparently desperate I'm sure it would never happen.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#48 May 03 2004 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Um... And who the **** do you think hires people? Yup. The same "top 1%". A tax break for them means more money for them to hire people and/or expand businesses. All of which results in more jobs, higher salaries, and lower relative prices at the markets. So yes. You do benefit from tax cuts even when they don't cut them for you specifically.

Sounds like trickle-down economics, which led us to our previous recession.
gbaji wrote:
Even for those who actually get more out of their tax dollars then they put in, it's a deal with the devil really. You are essentialy giving the government some of your money (and some of the money you might have made!), which you could have chosen to spend in any way you wanted, and in return the government gives you a service. Essentially, the government is deciding how to spend a portion of your income.

If the government didn't decide how to spend some of our income, nobody would give ANY money to government programs, and you'd spend all yours on porno and beer.
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#49 May 03 2004 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Sounds like trickle-down economics, which led us to our previous recession.

No, no trickle down economics is a sound, and really the *only* effective economic theory. The last recession was caused by the Democratic controlled congress putting the breaks on the fantastic economy.

Wait and see...
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#50 May 03 2004 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Hmmm... couple points:


Not realy accurate. You will gain from the Republican economic plan if you have *any* investments, or you make any signficant salary (50kish would be a very clear demarcation point, but probably lower then that). Um... And the "hidden" issue is that the Republican plan is designed to increase the numbers of people who get jobs and make good salaries. It's very wrong to look at what you're making today and make a judgement. It's much more accurate to say that your odds of making more money, or having a better job several years down the line is vastly increased if Rep economic policies are followed.
...
I've probably provided my current address at least a dozen times in the last 5 years, and not one of those got to the registrar's office...


Coincidence? I think not.


Argument! Yay!

If Rep policies work the economy should grow - I assume gbaji is referring to the Laffer curve? Low taxes -> high economic growth? That and the Easter bunny have equal emperical evidence. Look historically. Maximum tax rates - in fact virtually all tax rates - have fallen dramatically since the inception of income taxes in the US and there is no correlation to growth. Correlation to defecit is obvious.

Republican policies are the same as Democrat policies: to get them elected. Someone is going to pay that enormous defecit that occurs every time the Republicans cut taxes (Reagan and Bush, Jr.) and by shifting the burdon onto the less well off, you ***** over everyone but the ultrarich who reap enormous benefits. Sure, I'm saving money right now. Go me! But my share of the debt is rising and guess who's going to pay later? Consider even now: we are all paying interest right now and we'll be paying a lot more. Interest on worthey expences like perhaps educating the population will return rewards later whereas giving the ultra rich enormous tax breaks has absolutly no proven value.

The argument is that they will work harder? More will aspire to become ultra rich? I'm trying to help the other side out here with any kind of logical reason. Surely people have some argument for this but I'm not sure what. In the era of raging capatilism, the highest marginal income tax rate was 90% and we did just fine. Many people still wanted to become rich then. Why, exactly, didn't we have economic collapse then? Further, it just isn't logical people will try harder to get rich when the tax burdon shifts onto them. Sure, it lessens the odds you'll make it because you have to pay more taxes in contrast to the ultra rich - perhaps the argument could be the ultra rich will become lazy with their newfound wealth and stop working so that the rest of us have a better chance?

Sure, cutting taxes is popular and it should gain Bush his second term as he brandishes the "new tax" deamon at Kerry, but socilized health care would be a far larger boon to new businesses then lower personal income taxes on the highest income individuals, and a slight decrease for the rest. It is incredably hard and expensive to pay health care for all your employees - further exhasperated by the byzantine jungle of forms and offers. Further it is hard to lure good employees away from other jobs because their doctor may not follow into a new health plan. Gaps in coverage occur between jobs presenting a huge barrier to changing jobs. There are laws (so called "COBRA" in California, or is it Federal? I think it is state) which do help, but my state law could not extend my coverage from University to job because my student health insurance was - get this - not an actual health insurance policy covering me. I joined a small startup company anyways and ran out and got and paid for personal coverage until they could enroll me, but I almost did not go because they could not cover me and my family for something like three to four months.

Single payer health care is cheaper and better in virtually any first world nation on Earth then the insane system we have in America. Look at any objective statistic, like cost per person per year or rate of surgical errors, rate of a preventable disease like RSI or adult onset diabeties, look at early treatment of cancers - basically you name it and we're paying for a front row seat and we're not in the stadium to paraphrase Ross Perot. And it would lower barriers to changing jobs and entering the market working for small startups. We have a far greater chance of this under Kerry then Bush.

The child care tax credit was a boon to business that Bush eliminated. Used to be able to write off some (all?) child daycare expenses making it easier for both parents to work. Restoring this would help business, as would socilizing daycare (by using a voucher system for private institutions or following the public school/US post office style system or other means). Many businesses run their own daycare centers. This is both expensive and inefficient. I'm not a big fan of child daycare and my wife and I don't plan to use it but I still think it would increase the efficiency of our economy by making it easier for all people to work who want to. And I'm willing to help pay for it.

Simplifying the tax code would save people tons of money and time otherwise wasted and reduce the IRS workforce saving money there.

Any pro-business party should have at least some plan for these areas of federal law. There are proven, working solutions to these problems in other countries - why don't we follow them?

In the mid-Clinton years we had two years of Democrat control of both elected branches of federal government in the US and now we are nearing the end of two years with total Republican control. Neither group adequately address any of these problems.

Voting:
If you have ever been registered in the state of California, you can walk up and do a provisional ballet at any polling location. No, they probably won't count your ballet unless the race is really close but them's the breaks. IIRC you do have to provide something like: (a) present address and former, registered address, and (b) some documentation that you live at your current address. This is California, so your state may vary.
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#51 May 03 2004 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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