weapons for casual DDing?Follow

First. From what i tested brds base stats are far too low to be worth gearing for anything above T target wise. If your Acc is fine your not attacking as fast as others and if you cap haste at 26% which is easy on brd you probably wont be hitting above a ~70% hit rate and if both of those check out fine you still have the issue that all thfs face with having the best weapon being a dagger. This will produce low damage compared to other DDs. The only way to make none of these issues really matter as much and to spam WS's like you say. Use (Dagger)/kclub for good MR spam setup.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 10:21pm by flowerpot

I didnt reply to this without testing it my self. brd/nin melee is about as good as a AH bought melee job with the added bonus of songs. Our highest skill is a B- for dagger. drk has A+ and A- in scythe and GS, war has A+ and A- in Axe and Great axe, Drg has a A= in polearm, Pld has a A+ A- A- in sword club and staff, mnk has an A+ in H2H, Nin has an A- in katana, Sam have an A+ in GK, thf has a A- in dagger, dnc has a B+ in dagger, Even cor has a B+ in dagger and a B in marksmanship. bst has a A- in axe. Just for good messure so you knwo where that B- skill ranks. Pup has a B+ H2H, Blu has a A- sword, Smn has a B in staff, rdm has a B in dagger whm has a B+ in club and finally the only job who sports the same skill value for its main weapon used if it were to melee. Blm. They have a B- in staff. Daggers in general have low base dmg. this is an issue thfs have faced for years and years.
AS for stats they are as follows.
Str:
1 Drk War 3. Drg Pld 5. Mnk Nin Sam 8. Brd Bst Dnc Rdm Thf Whm 14. Blu Cor Pup Rng Blm 18. Sch Smn. Also recall brd has less skill so attack will be even lower then pretty much every job listed aside from blm and maybe sch or smn.
Dex:
1.Thf 2. Mnk Ninja Pup 5. Bst Blm Cor Dnc Drk Sam War 12. Brd Drg Rng Rdm Sch 17. Blu Pld Smn Whm. Also note Blm will have more acc due to 2 hand as well as drg and smn. brd might have more acc then a pld blu or a rdm but due to skill ranks brd probably still wouldnt win the hit rate race.

Ill just list brds rank on the other stats so you have something else to compare. Agi 17th Brd, Bst, Mnk. Mnd 5th Brd, Mnk, Rng, Sch. Vit 7th Brd, Bst, Pup, Rng, Thf, War, Whm. Chr 2nd Brd, Dnc, Smn. Int 8th Brd, Nin.

When a brd player has the funds to be able to buy some of the best melee equipment for a brd they are able to overcome the issues to a point from stats and weapon ranking and choice to amount to your average melee job DD wise while playing songs. Anyone who tells you otherwise was testing on T or under or never done it them selfs.

Bard's acc isn't that low. Even my sh*tty brd had 381 acc with sushi (at 75), along with 22% haste. If i cared i could have easily got over 400 acc. You certainly won't be using pizza/meat, but that really isn't that big of a deal.

post your equipment used(since you didnt care i assume this isnt going to be the best equipment possible for ever slot). also OP said 26% haste.

I find this rather amusing that a lot of the bards on here dismiss its meripo DD potential. I was lol'd at IN this post for suggesting it lol.

Mind you I was referring specifically to 2x BRD meripos where the "lazy BRD" aka BRD/WHM should just /nin (or now /DNC for additional ACC bonuses and curing ability) and DD. Potentially saving just as much mp via faster kills as would coming /WHM and killing slower.

I actually do have some of the gear, magian daggers and dagger merits from Thief main to pull this off and I can assure you, done right, it is quite a thing to see.

Hell, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.



Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:43pm by ThiefKiller

c'est vrais monsieur. Say for example if you don't have any kraken drks to speak of and not every melee you have is a crazy DD. SV buffs, food, dia, agnon, feint etc etc....its not AMAZING but definately a solid contribution.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 2:39am by ThiefKiller

You could if you hade the 3 other DD's to swap. Or you could just use the BRDS if you only brought 18 and you have the kind of DD's in your LS that actually NEED the drops from Kirin still.

The solution to the problem could always be "well you could just not suck, and that would fix the problem." But the fact is you dont really need to swap out 3 more DD's for the bards anyway. It's unneccessary.


RE: Daggers not doing well on Kirin...my THF doesn't seem to have too many problems. Its not the OMGWTFBBQ best of the best of the best. But you really dont need that to do a ~60 second Kirin. I would even attest that you don't need that for ANYTHING in this game. There are jobs definately designed to DD better than others in this game...that does not mean you can't get the job done with different jobs.

Point in case: I out parse a lot of the more traditional Jobs I zerg Kirin with on my THF. That doesn't mean anything really except for the fact that you can get it done without the very best of jobs and the very best of gear.

I don't even see a need to respond to that.

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.

So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.

Ok, here it is: a brd will only have 2 songs up, not 6.

Of course it is, but you won't ever have more than 2 songs during a zerg. You play 2 songs, then drop from the party to make room for the next brd. You'll never be in the same party as either of the other two bards at the same time, unless one of the parties has <5 other people, in which case if you're really quick, and the person ahead of you is slow to do songs, then i suppose it's possible to get 1 extra song, but never any more than that.

How much of a difference did you think some brds would make?

Well 1 > 0 regardless of how much impact that +1 happens to be. If you don't have three DD's standing by then why not leave the BRDs in? If their /DNC they could all spam the -def step, if your lucky you can get one or two to land, it stacks with agnon and Dia III so its still something.

Sorry I misread this and never responded to it. When I have seen this done for the BRDS to melee (when we had a couple that had the sets to do it. We brought 10 DD, 3 healers and 3 BRDS. (2 of those DD were THFs on a feint rotation. After the first 30 seconds wears off the second is applied etc.)

How we got the songs on the BRDs was we droppped the healers for the BRD rotation and instead of one by one we had the March/Minuet BRDs rotating 2 by 2 with the madrigal one behind. By the end of it all the BRD's had 4 songs.


I realize not many Bards have a dd build like this tho. I just happen to have a lot of gear for it and merits from THF. It's probably not reasonable for a lot of BRDS to do I guess?

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 1:38pm by ThiefKiller

Is it just me and my frictional nature kicking in, or is this guy still suggesting PUP is a horrible DD?

FYI PUP had a C to begin with and still pulled much more than a BRD could hope to pull in a non-zerg situation the day before the B+ update, much less after. Skill rank means next to nothing unless you're fighting aspid or something.


Edit: To add somewhat to the thread instead of just derailing, follow ThePsychoticOnes advice. BD/KC, BD/Joytoy, the new magian daggers, generally if it's OAT capable or has rather high base damage use it. There's no reason not to go BRD/DNC and hit sh*t if you would otherwise not be doing anything else. Just make sure you gear for DD when you do this and don't just throw on weapons please.

PS: So help me god if someone comes in here with TP feed and tries to submit it as a valid argument rather than to just troll me for threatening to nuke the servers.

Edit2: Parazonium's will do far better than both Mkris and Joytoy as they have higher damage and the same number of average hits. I also believe they are affected by brutal earring whereas Mkris and Joytoy are not but don't quote me on that just yet.More than likely, the absolute best setup for a BRD/DNC with intent to DD would be the OAT twice Parazonium/Kclub. With the intent for getting as much TP as possible to spam steps/heals OAT 2-3x Parazonium/Kclub. With nothing more than napkin math to back this up I'm somewhat more hesitant to suggest Twashtar/Kclub or Twashtar/OAT twice Parazonium.
Edited, Jul 16th 2010 6:09pm by Morente

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 6:20pm by Morente



Edited, Jul 16th 2010 6:30pm by Morente

I had an awesome time DDing on BRD in a Vulture party in Misareaux. The camp right near Tav's exit is close enough together that you can usually pull the next mobs without having to move. Troubadour lets you spend more time hitting things and less time singing party buffs. A properly geared BRD can contribute a decent amount of damage over the course of a merit party. As long as you're not sacrificing pull speed for melee time, you should be fine.

Also, if I'm the 2nd BRD in a 2 BRD (lol WRU COR) party, I prefer to /DNC instead of /WHM, especially since /DNC gives Dual Wield now.