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weapons for casual DDing?Follow

#1 Jul 12 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
Was gonna run numbers, or trial and error for my answer, but I figured someone already has. What're BRD's top choices as far as weaponry? Considered situations include things a BRD would actually draw weapon against, not some theoretical alliance of BRDs zerging Tiamat. Campaign, FoV or Trial of the Magians vs EP mobs, farming a few Tough mobs maybe..

The top contenders as things stand appear to be Joytoy, MKris, and straight DD daggers (Blau, Trial of the Magian, etc).

Personally I'm partial to solo MKris because it lets me use Mordant Rime which puts out respectable damage with pizza/meat up (unlike of Joytoy's Fast Blade). The TP gain from its multiple hits along with 26% haste makes BRD/DNC quite the survivor too. Genbu's Shield as sub, the -PDT% means less time waltzing and more time swinging. Unimpressed by mk/joy, the TP gain is noticeably slower and Joy's DPS doesn't offset the fact that mkris is for WS spamming.

What're everyone else's preferences? And if anyone cares to crunch numbers that's always appreciated.

Editing:

Preliminary testing in Cape Terrigan FoV shows that MK/Joy is tops, WS frequency plus Joyeuse in the off hand adds another hit to Mordant Rime.

As for single-wield, Joy and MK are close, MK pulling ahead if you play aggressively (box stepping extra TP for damage boost, not wasting TP). MK has Mordant Rime to open/close a wide variety of T2 SCs, and Joy has additional effect: sell MK and get a fat wallet...

Edited, Jul 12th 2010 7:10pm by tertoonetwothreefour
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#2 Jul 13 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Default
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First. From what i tested brds base stats are far too low to be worth gearing for anything above T target wise. If your Acc is fine your not attacking as fast as others and if you cap haste at 26% which is easy on brd you probably wont be hitting above a ~70% hit rate and if both of those check out fine you still have the issue that all thfs face with having the best weapon being a dagger. This will produce low damage compared to other DDs. The only way to make none of these issues really matter as much and to spam WS's like you say. Use (Dagger)/kclub for good MR spam setup.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 10:21pm by flowerpot
#3 Jul 13 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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flowerpot wrote:
First. From what i tested brds base stats are far too low to be worth gearing for anything above T target wise. If your Acc is fine your not attacking as fast as others and if you cap haste at 26% which is easy on brd you probably wont be hitting above a ~70% hit rate and if both of those check out fine you still have the issue that all thfs face with having the best weapon being a dagger. This will produce low damage compared to other DDs. The only way to make none of these issues really matter as much and to spam WS's like you say. Use (Dagger)/kclub for good MR spam setup.
lolwut? Brd may not be a great dd, but it can be quite good if you properly gear for it. With kitty pants, dusk, heca, haste+2 instrument, etc, bard gets some amazing dd gear. They may not be able to beat a good war, or sam, but brd can hold its own with some daggers. And as far as acc goes, have you ever heard of sushi?
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#4 Jul 13 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Default
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I didnt reply to this without testing it my self. brd/nin melee is about as good as a AH bought melee job with the added bonus of songs. Our highest skill is a B- for dagger. drk has A+ and A- in scythe and GS, war has A+ and A- in Axe and Great axe, Drg has a A= in polearm, Pld has a A+ A- A- in sword club and staff, mnk has an A+ in H2H, Nin has an A- in katana, Sam have an A+ in GK, thf has a A- in dagger, dnc has a B+ in dagger, Even cor has a B+ in dagger and a B in marksmanship. bst has a A- in axe. Just for good messure so you knwo where that B- skill ranks. Pup has a B+ H2H, Blu has a A- sword, Smn has a B in staff, rdm has a B in dagger whm has a B+ in club and finally the only job who sports the same skill value for its main weapon used if it were to melee. Blm. They have a B- in staff. Daggers in general have low base dmg. this is an issue thfs have faced for years and years.
AS for stats they are as follows.
Str:
1 Drk War 3. Drg Pld 5. Mnk Nin Sam 8. Brd Bst Dnc Rdm Thf Whm 14. Blu Cor Pup Rng Blm 18. Sch Smn. Also recall brd has less skill so attack will be even lower then pretty much every job listed aside from blm and maybe sch or smn.
Dex:
1.Thf 2. Mnk Ninja Pup 5. Bst Blm Cor Dnc Drk Sam War 12. Brd Drg Rng Rdm Sch 17. Blu Pld Smn Whm. Also note Blm will have more acc due to 2 hand as well as drg and smn. brd might have more acc then a pld blu or a rdm but due to skill ranks brd probably still wouldnt win the hit rate race.

Ill just list brds rank on the other stats so you have something else to compare. Agi 17th Brd, Bst, Mnk. Mnd 5th Brd, Mnk, Rng, Sch. Vit 7th Brd, Bst, Pup, Rng, Thf, War, Whm. Chr 2nd Brd, Dnc, Smn. Int 8th Brd, Nin.

When a brd player has the funds to be able to buy some of the best melee equipment for a brd they are able to overcome the issues to a point from stats and weapon ranking and choice to amount to your average melee job DD wise while playing songs. Anyone who tells you otherwise was testing on T or under or never done it them selfs.
#5 Jul 13 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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flowerpot wrote:
I didnt reply to this without testing it my self. brd/nin melee is about as good as a AH bought melee job with the added bonus of songs. Our highest skill is a B- for dagger. drk has A+ and A- in scythe and GS, war has A+ and A- in Axe and Great axe, Drg has a A= in polearm, Pld has a A+ A- A- in sword club and staff, mnk has an A+ in H2H, Nin has an A- in katana, Sam have an A+ in GK, thf has a A- in dagger, dnc has a B+ in dagger, Even cor has a B+ in dagger and a B in marksmanship. bst has a A- in axe. Just for good messure so you knwo where that B- skill ranks. Pup has a B+ H2H, Blu has a A- sword, Smn has a B in staff, rdm has a B in dagger whm has a B+ in club and finally the only job who sports the same skill value for its main weapon used if it were to melee. Blm. They have a B- in staff. Daggers in general have low base dmg. this is an issue thfs have faced for years and years.
AS for stats they are as follows.
Str:
1 Drk War 3. Drg Pld 5. Mnk Nin Sam 8. Brd Bst Dnc Rdm Thf Whm 14. Blu Cor Pup Rng Blm 18. Sch Smn. Also recall brd has less skill so attack will be even lower then pretty much every job listed aside from blm and maybe sch or smn.
Dex:
1.Thf 2. Mnk Ninja Pup 5. Bst Blm Cor Dnc Drk Sam War 12. Brd Drg Rng Rdm Sch 17. Blu Pld Smn Whm. Also note Blm will have more acc due to 2 hand as well as drg and smn. brd might have more acc then a pld blu or a rdm but due to skill ranks brd probably still wouldnt win the hit rate race.

Ill just list brds rank on the other stats so you have something else to compare. Agi 17th Brd, Bst, Mnk. Mnd 5th Brd, Mnk, Rng, Sch. Vit 7th Brd, Bst, Pup, Rng, Thf, War, Whm. Chr 2nd Brd, Dnc, Smn. Int 8th Brd, Nin.

When a brd player has the funds to be able to buy some of the best melee equipment for a brd they are able to overcome the issues to a point from stats and weapon ranking and choice to amount to your average melee job DD wise while playing songs. Anyone who tells you otherwise was testing on T or under or never done it them selfs.
Is this going anywhere?

Yes, a well geared brd will do about on par with a gimp/AH dd, so ******* what? Your comparisons are completely useless because base stats aren't nearly as important as gear available, and brd gets some great dd gear. Besides the point isn't to win parses, it's to do damage. Last i checked some damage > no damage. Bard is far from the best, but still holds its own.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 11:53pm by ThePsychoticOne
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#6flowerpot, Posted: Jul 13 2010 at 9:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Maybe you should troll less. this was a reply to your 'lolwut? how to troll?' brd just isnt a good DD. if you cant put the information i posted together and figure that one out go kill your self. The OP wanted to know the best was to spam MR since he said hes getting awesome dmg on that weaponskill and he dont care about DoT on gaining tp. his best option because brds acc is so low when assuming he will be using haste for a muti hit weapon would be (dagger)/kClub.
#7 Jul 13 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Default
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since you edited your above posted rather then responding. sure brd can do 'some' dmg. they can also do some healing and some pulling. which one you would want your brd to do is up to you. infact all jobs can do some dmg that is after all why SE gave sch Occult Acumen. otherwise all the TP is for nothing amiright?
#8 Jul 13 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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flowerpot wrote:
Maybe you should troll less. this was a reply to your 'lolwut? how to troll?' brd just isnt a good DD. if you cant put the information i posted together and figure that one out go kill your self. The OP wanted to know the best was to spam MR since he said hes getting awesome dmg on that weaponskill and he dont care about DoT on gaining tp. his best option because brds acc is so low when assuming he will be using haste for a muti hit weapon would be (dagger)/kClub.
Bard's acc isn't that low. Even my ****** brd had 381 acc with sushi (at 75), along with 22% haste. If i cared i could have easily got over 400 acc. You certainly won't be using pizza/meat, but that really isn't that big of a deal.
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#9 Jul 13 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
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flowerpot wrote:
since you edited your above posted rather then responding. sure brd can do 'some' dmg. they can also do some healing and some pulling. which one you would want your brd to do is up to you. infact all jobs can do some dmg that is after all why SE gave sch Occult Acumen. otherwise all the TP is for nothing amiright?
Brd can easily do around 75% of the damage of a good dd in exp/merits. Is that amazing? No. But it is quite respectable seeing as they're not just dds, but also provide such a huge buff to the other dds with marches. For anything much higher than vt/low it, you're obviously right, brd dd is pointless.

Of course they won't always be dding. Sometimes healing is more important, and for exp brd is better off just pulling, but it's rather silly to just dismiss the idea completely just because brd can't beat a well geared sam.
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#10 Jul 13 2010 at 10:13 PM Rating: Default
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post your equipment used(since you didnt care i assume this isnt going to be the best equipment possible for ever slot). also OP said 26% haste.
#11 Jul 13 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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blau, kc, angel lyre, turban, pcc, suppa, coral (brutal if i wasn't dual wielding kc), sh+1 (didn't have goli), dusk, snipper x2, amemet+1, swift, kitty pants, dusk+1.

Ws gear was ******. I didn't have any heca, so i basically just swapped in warwolf, brutal, ohat, and ruby+flame rings.

It was above average, but not the best.

And i forgot the 5 acc on blau, i actually had 387 acc for the dagger, 356 for club, and 350 for sword if i was offhanding joyeuse (i had dagger/club merits, no sword).
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#12 Jul 15 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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I find this rather amusing that a lot of the bards on here dismiss its meripo DD potential. I was lol'd at IN this post for suggesting it lol.

Mind you I was referring specifically to 2x BRD meripos where the "lazy BRD" aka BRD/WHM should just /nin (or now /DNC for additional ACC bonuses and curing ability) and DD. Potentially saving just as much mp via faster kills as would coming /WHM and killing slower.

I actually do have some of the gear, magian daggers and dagger merits from Thief main to pull this off and I can assure you, done right, it is quite a thing to see.

****, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.



Edited, Jul 15th 2010 8:43pm by ThiefKiller
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#13 Jul 15 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
****, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.
wat
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#14 Jul 16 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Quote:
****, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.
wat


c'est vrais monsieur. Say for example if you don't have any kraken drks to speak of and not every melee you have is a crazy DD. SV buffs, food, dia, agnon, feint etc etc....its not AMAZING but definately a solid contribution.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 2:39am by ThiefKiller
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#15 Jul 16 2010 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Quote:
****, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.
wat
c'est vrais monsieur
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage. Daggers don't do well against kirin, especially without 6 songs.
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#16 Jul 16 2010 at 12:49 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Quote:
****, even in something like a SV BRD rotation Kirin ZERG, having the 3 BRDs with such a melee set can make quite a decent DD contribution also.
wat
c'est vrais monsieur
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage. Daggers don't do well against kirin, especially without 6 songs.


You could if you hade the 3 other DD's to swap. Or you could just use the BRDS if you only brought 18 and you have the kind of DD's in your LS that actually NEED the drops from Kirin still.

The solution to the problem could always be "well you could just not suck, and that would fix the problem." But the fact is you dont really need to swap out 3 more DD's for the bards anyway. It's unneccessary.


RE: Daggers not doing well on Kirin...my THF doesn't seem to have too many problems. Its not the OMGWTFBBQ best of the best of the best. But you really dont need that to do a ~60 second Kirin. I would even attest that you don't need that for ANYTHING in this game. There are jobs definately designed to DD better than others in this game...that does not mean you can't get the job done with different jobs.

Point in case: I out parse a lot of the more traditional Jobs I zerg Kirin with on my THF. That doesn't mean anything really except for the fact that you can get it done without the very best of jobs and the very best of gear.
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#17 Jul 16 2010 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage


You dont really believe that do you? 2x damage for 3 unbuffed DD's VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
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#18 Jul 16 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
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#19 Jul 16 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.


As long as we agree :)
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#20 Jul 16 2010 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.


As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
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#21 Jul 16 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.


As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.


OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage


I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds? Even without Soul Voice....that is a fail arguement.



Edited, Jul 16th 2010 3:04am by ThiefKiller
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#22 Jul 16 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage
I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds?
So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.
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#23 Jul 16 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage
I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds?
So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.


Not really Rogeroooony. Even without Soul Voice, that is a fail argument and a half.
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#24 Jul 16 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage
I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds?
So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.
Not really Rogeroooony. Even without Soul Voice, that is a fail argument and a half.
Ok, here it is: a brd will only have 2 songs up, not 6.
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#25 Jul 16 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Default
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Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage
I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds?
So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.
Not really Rogeroooony. Even without Soul Voice, that is a fail argument and a half.
Ok, here it is: a brd will only have 2 songs up, not 6.


I'll give you that it is a bit if a different take on BRD swaps, but it is possible to have more than 2 songs on the BRD.
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#26 Jul 16 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
VS 6x soul voiced songs on BRDs with solid DD sets? Not a chance.
I don't even see a need to respond to that.
As long as we agree :)
Smiley: facepalm

I bolded the problem for you, since you're apparently too dense to see it.
OOOOOO Noooooes. He called me dense lol.

Look up. You said this:

Quote:
You could just drop party and invite 3 unbuffed dds who would do 2x more damage
I bolded the part that I responded too. Since I'm too dense to understand your superior logic skills, explain to me how 3 Unbuffed DD's would do 200% of the damage of 6x SV song buffed Brds?
So i really need to spell this out for you, eh? I'll give you one more chance to figure out why what you're saying makes no sense.
Not really Rogeroooony. Even without Soul Voice, that is a fail argument and a half.
Ok, here it is: a brd will only have 2 songs up, not 6.
I'll give you that it is a bit if a different take on BRD swaps, but it is possible to have more than 2 songs on the BRD.
Of course it is, but you won't ever have more than 2 songs during a zerg. You play 2 songs, then drop from the party to make room for the next brd. You'll never be in the same party as either of the other two bards at the same time, unless one of the parties has <5 other people, in which case if you're really quick, and the person ahead of you is slow to do songs, then i suppose it's possible to get 1 extra song, but never any more than that.
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