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Brd + SmnFollow

#1 Sep 08 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Hi, my friend and I were planning on partying as bard and summoner full time from ~14 to 75. My question is, are there going to be any foreseeable problems with this duo in a party situation? Sorry I was not sure whether to ask here or the smn forum, but since I am the bard, I chose you guys.
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#2 Sep 08 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I see no reason why it there would be a problem.

If your summoner buddy wants to really be a summoner, you should probably look into finding another support member for your semi static. Scholar comes to mind as a good choice in that particular situation, since your summoner bud will have hastega among other buffs. All you would need is a couple damage dealers and a tank (depending on level range and camp of course) and you'd be more or less set.

If someone has a problem with the way you choose to make your party, then they choose not to party. Too bad so sad for them, they probably weren't very good anyways.

Edited, Sep 8th 2009 12:09pm by Teiei
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#3 Sep 08 2009 at 8:18 AM Rating: Default
Teiei wrote:
I see no reason why it there would be a problem.

If your summoner buddy wants to really be a summoner, you should probably look into finding another support member for your semi static. Scholar comes to mind as a good choice in that particular situation, since your summoner bud will have hastega among other buffs. All you would need is a couple damage dealers and a tank (depending on level range and camp of course) and you'd be more or less set.


I don't see how you would specifically suggest a party with SMN/SCH/BRD.

Anyways, OP, it's not terrible.
Pretty much any EXP party with a SMN is going to be subpar unless the tank is really good and the damage dealers are killing really, which is going to be difficult to get together sometimes - if all your DDs and tanks are randomly LFG. Feel free to debate me PUP-huggers, but it's true.
SMN sucks more than almost anything else 1-75 in party play!

Next you'll tell the BRD to go /WHM and let the SMN Carbuncle pull!

(Debating with myself before an actual argument starts hurrdurr)

BRD is good in any EXP party setup, so you're basically asking if SMN is good, which is why I answered that way.

Edited, Sep 8th 2009 12:19pm by Poubelle
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#4 Sep 08 2009 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Well thanks for the replies, i guess the question is which is better, brd+smn+tank+3DDs or brd+smn+support(cor would fit in nice as DD hybrid)+ tank and 2 DDs?
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#5 Sep 08 2009 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Probably the latter setup, depending on what you fight.

In before Pourbelle says something like:
"Drop the summoner because friendship is lame"

In all seriousness, your better off with a hole in the head then asking for party advice on these fourms. I'd sooner suggest you get out there and try setups for yourself.

Good Luck.

/waits to be crusified

Edited, Sep 8th 2009 1:21pm by Teiei
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#6 Sep 08 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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I'd say to go with a DNC as part of your setup. They can typically handle a lot of bulk healing, and are extremely fast at it - two aspects of healing where SMN tends to falter. You do want some other method of healing to fill in gaps, but -overall- a DNC will be able to cover the lion's share of HP recovery, along with providing some moderate enfeebling and damage.

SMN really wouldn't be my first choice for an XP party. Or second. Or third. But if your friend is set on it, you can still make it work well. It just won't be as straightforward as pairing yourself with a RDM or WHM. I would definitely look to supplement their healing though.


Quote:
Well thanks for the replies, i guess the question is which is better, brd+smn+tank+3DDs or brd+smn+support(cor would fit in nice as DD hybrid)+ tank and 2 DDs?


Depends. The specific jobs in question. How well they're being played. The camp, etc. I've done static setups similar to either situation (though not with SMN - one did have a BLM though, also not a great XP job). They all worked well because everyone in 'em was well geared and competent.

Are you forming a full static, or are you pretty much going to have to try and grab the rest of the party from whomever is seeking?
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#7 Sep 08 2009 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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Poubelle, Star Breaker wrote:

I don't see how you would specifically suggest a party with SMN/SCH/BRD.

Anyways, OP, it's not terrible.
Pretty much any EXP party with a SMN is going to be subpar unless the tank is really good and the damage dealers are killing really, which is going to be difficult to get together sometimes - if all your DDs and tanks are randomly LFG. Feel free to debate me PUP-huggers, but it's true.
SMN sucks more than almost anything else 1-75 in party play!

Next you'll tell the BRD to go /WHM and let the SMN Carbuncle pull!


Wow, has SMN really fallen that far to say such things? Sure, I do see a lot of SMNs thinking that they can actually DD with their avatars (which they sort of can, but nowhere near the levels of the specialized DDs).

However, there have been many many many cases on my trek to 75SMN where if I was given a BRD in a party, one solid Ballad II is all I need to solo main-heal the party while still providing avatar buffs (Hastega, Ecliptic Howl, and the occasional AoE Curaga from either myself or an avatar), and this was way before Elemental Siphon or /SCH was introduced. With a decently skilled or higher party setup, main healing on SMN should be a non-issue and it is very possible to go BRD+SMN+4DDs. However, if the SMN has the attitude of "But I want to be a true SMN, having my avatars do battle and do damage and not be used for my healing magic", then that SMN will fail very hard and only spread the belief that Poubelle has in SMNs.

SMNs are very great healers and supporters. They can Haste the entire party (Hastega) which NIN and /NIN tanks (and every melee for that matter) will love, cast AoE Stoneskin (once again, a fave for NIN and /NIN tanks), cast Aerial Armor (Party Blink) for those non-/NIN types, increase Accuracy/Evasion (Ecliptic Howl, which can stack with Accuracy buffs from BRD or COR), and have all sorts of other buffs to match various situations at their disposal.

Not to mention that SMNs have some of the best ways of recovering MP just on their main job alone, such as learning higher Clear Mind Traits (Up to V) faster than any other mage job, having Auto-Refresh at 25+, and having Elemental Siphon at 50. Adding a BRD into the mix only makes MP management even better (and CORs really love the +Refresh on their rolls from having a SMN in the party). With good knowledge of knowing when to rest and when you can push the envelope on MP, a SMN can be very efficient and main heal + buff with ease.

Oh, and in before "I like to see you try main-healing without Cure IV or Cure V"! I've main-healed many many MANY times with just /WHM as the solo healer (way before Elemental Siphon, too). Alternating between Cure III and Cure II can fill up an HP bar fast and throwing out Healing Ruby IIs mid-fight work like a hateless Curaga II (and if I am really desperate and short of time, Divine Seal + Curaga I/II works too). Heck, I was in a merit party that I main-healed with BRD support. At chain 60, my stray Divine Seal + Curaga II (to save the party) made me eat dirt. I immediately Reraised and resume main-healing (as I still had 450MP max, despite being weakened). All in all (though my chain started over from the death), the party continued and hit Chain 150+, despite being KOed and reraised mid-chain.

All in all, as long as your SMN buddy learns that it is not all about him and learns how to work in a group and use group buffs and group heals (and keeps up on those avatars), you'll be fine. If the SMN buddy decides to go "DD SMN", tell him to go solo, where he can do that to his heart's content, because in a party, it just will be very subpar (and will require another healer in the party, making the DDs wonder what purpose your SMN buddy has in the party).

Edited, Sep 8th 2009 3:54pm by Altairs
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#8 Sep 08 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah this will just be a mini-static.

And thank you Altairs for you're helpful info for my friend as a main cure smn.
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#9 Sep 08 2009 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle, Star Breaker wrote:
SMN sucks more than almost anything else 1-75 in party play!


SMN can cast cure as well as any curebot and that's all you need in today's dumbed down easy EXP parties - someone to toss out a few cures every now and again. Plus SMN have some ok buffs too.

Nothing wrong with a SMN in a party.
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#10 Sep 13 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
jtftaru wrote:
SMN can cast cure as well as any curebot and that's all you need in today's dumbed down easy EXP parties - someone to toss out a few cures every now and again. Plus SMN have some ok buffs too.


I'm 80% sure Poubelle was talking about the soul-crushing boredom of using SMN as a cure bot. Granted, none of the mage jobs are particularly fun to grind, even the SMNs who didn't do astral burns don't know the names of half their Avatar's BPs. Not that that's a bad thing, that's just how things shake out.
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#11 Sep 13 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have leveled both SMN and DNC to 75, and i'm currently working on BRD atm, and I can tell you a SMN + DNC combo is something to be feared and respected. Have the SMN Hastega and toss out DD pacts, and with that Hastega, the DNC will be able to basically heal the entire party, perhaps with some help from said SMN. DNC + SMN is a match made in heaven - 20% melee Haste and surely enough heals to keep everyone alive. I've leveled SMN, so I feel like it's ok to say this (anyone else feel free to flame), but SMN is simply not useful in exp parties - unless you have a DNC to cover your healing for you. DNC + SMN = DD/healer x 2 which basically gives you a DD + a healer + 20% Haste for your DDs.
#12 Sep 14 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Main healing as smn is not an issue, you have to be smart and on the ball because you don't really have the cure bomb you can drop out in an oh crap moment like whm can. I don't have smn past 37 myself but my wife is 75 and has been for quite some time. I used to cover here every now and then while she was exping and I never had any issues. Starting out at lower levels it will be a little iffy until you get cure2 but thats the same for every healing job.



In short level the job you like. Is there something "better"? Probably in the cookie cutter world but who cares do what you like.

Best tip I'll give you is get your friend all their avatars, insist that they use them all, try and get pt's where he/she is curing in one situation and nuking in another so they can really learn what their bloodpacks can do.
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#13 Sep 14 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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i've lvled brd with a smn friend too.

what we did was have both our pty flags up and state in our searchcomment that we are linked. we also said the smn was not a mainhealer. This way people would know what to expect when we got invited.
We had no trouble at all getting parties and most of the time they were pretty good too. Smn can be a nice addition as a buffer using fenrir and keeping him out.
I know smn can mainheal pretty well spamming cure II on the tank, but than again, ffxi is a game and games should be fun. Otherwise it's no longer a game. :-/

I always subbed /whm as a brd, wearing vermy to help out on curaga's and -na spells when not singing songs. Unless you're doing mobs with enhanced movement speed (colibri's puks...), /nin isn't usefull on brd.
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#14 Sep 14 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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you'll have great fun with summoner :D
curing and pacting is good fun and busy, and managing the MP is a good challenge.

and at some levels you and the BRD can duo bombs etc.. and beastman pets.


oh and quick edit. thunderspark rocks at any level! it will be one of your best friends all the way up.
(one such magic thing being, if you get a link on a pull.. have ramuh thudnerspark the main mob, when thunderspark hits the link release ramuh. link will go poof woooo)

Edited, Sep 14th 2009 11:28am by Rostofff
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