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why is a bard not pulling wrong?Follow

#52 Jan 10 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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this is like saying "when you invite a PLD/WHM, don't expect them to provoke! they're obviously meant as backup healers!"

BRD/WHM is only useful in a party as a 2nd BRD, unless the BRD/WHM is competent enough to pull. your argument is absurd; you're criticizing people for not letting BRD/WHMs leech XP by doing a half-assed job. there's no difference between what you're defending and a melee who never WSs because "that's not my playstyle".



If you have no use for those players who tell you upfront that they are going to play in a certain style, then don't invite them.

Melee who don't WS do sobecause they are bad players. When I ask them to start using their WS they know they need to stop slacking- no debate.
#53 Jan 11 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default
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here's a simple info you may want to know as brd
if your a rng you have to time the % of health so DD's and tank's can do an auto-target to the new mob. (same with thf)

If your a brd on the other hand you can go out at the mobs half health foe riquim them bring them back then sleep them and they should saty asleep also if you noticed Brd's cant be interupted.

so lets recap,
-brd goes out
-brd pulls mob
-brd bring's mob bk
-brd sleeps mob
-brd sits around buffs pt and debuffs current mob.
-pt chooses to switch mobs or auto-targets new mob.

simple^^
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#54 Jan 11 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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"if your a brd on the other hand you can go out at the mobs half health foe riquim them bring them back then sleep them and they should saty asleep also if you noticed Brd's cant be interupted."

lol hard to sleep them if you use requiem to pull =P
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#55 Jan 12 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Last night a party actually asked me to come /whm and heal. Now, that's not really my play style on bard because I happen to be a whm and rdm and if I wanted to be a healer, I'd be on one of those, so I seek on /nin. That's what the party wanted though, so I came /whm and made the best of it.

I'm not a fan of pulling as /whm though and so I didn't volunteer for that aspect of my job, but The THF leader seemed to expect to be pulling anyway. I don't think that it's necessarily "wrong" to be a bard and not pull, but the attitude present in the OP is certainly wrong. This was one of those situations that I liken to Good, Fast, Cheap - pick two. Heal, Sing, Pull - pick two.

I find that the game is more fun when people in the party are getting along, and if you are the odd one out because you don't want to perform a task your job is suited to, then you are making the parry not fun. However, I don't think that parties should expect more from a bard just because she IS a bard - there's only so many tasks that you can perform at once without other tasks starting to slip, so choose wisely.

In the end - if the party needs you to pull, get out the /nin put on your big girl panties and deal with it. If they want you to heal it up, we can definitely effectively fill that slot too.

But lose the attitude, because that's the first thing people look at when they measure your level of skill. That kind of attitude will follow you everywhere.
#56 Jan 13 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.


They didn't always pull, and they weren't considered leeches, but you were lucky to even FIND a bard back then. (When sky parties were king, and Rng had yet to be nerfed.)

Now, yes, it is more efficient, and assuming you don't have half *** dd that don't kill fast enough -or- bother to voke anything, you should expect to pull in a merit.

The solution for our OP?

If you hate pulling, don't merit with DD on bard. Level a DD job, or go do Campaign (make sure you have a DD set), and tell parties that ask to **** off.
#57 Jan 13 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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Kelbar wrote:
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Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.


They didn't always pull, and they weren't considered leeches, but you were lucky to even FIND a bard back then. (When sky parties were king, and Rng had yet to be nerfed.)


people also let mobs live for 30-60 seconds longer than they needed to while they waited to organize a SC and WS, while partying on mobs drastically too high for their level. also, BRDs always pulled for me back in the day; i'm a MNK:P.
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#58 Jan 14 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Sounds like you need to level bard.
#59 Jan 17 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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Bards pull for the same reason whms should use barspells over rdms: Because it's better.


Doesn't RDM have higher enhancing magic than WHM?
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#60 Jan 17 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kelbar wrote:
Sounds like you need to level bard.


me?
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#61 Jan 17 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
Kelbar wrote:
Sounds like you need to level bard.


me?
SECRET JOB!
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#62 Jan 18 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Doesn't RDM have higher enhancing magic than WHM?


Yes, but WHM has more Barspell enhancing gear. To match the +20 you get from WHM relic pants, you would need an extra 100 Enhancing skill.
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#63FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 9:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What a troll. This was actually entertaining to read. I see nothing wrong with a good troll, as long as there are not any wanna-be smartarse replies involved. Then again, that I suppose, is inevitable.
#64 Jan 18 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I for one would have liked to see the eradication of burns and the return of good old fashioned "Old-school FFXI parties." Then perhaps some people wouldn't become so cranky.


That would actually make a lot of people a lot more cranky, as that would nerf average exp gain. Nostalgia is all well and good, but the old ways aren't always the best ways.
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#65 Jan 18 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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FinalPlay wrote:
What a troll. This was actually entertaining to read. I see nothing wrong with a good troll, as long as there are not any wanna-be smartarse replies involved. Then again, that I suppose, is inevitable.

I leveled BRD back in '04, ironically, after thoroughly and publicly badmouthing that job. It is one of the most beautiful, and was, one of the most fun jobs I had played. (And WILL have played.)

Back then, it 'seemed' absurd to have the BRD pull. And since it was commonplace to have a ranged job pull, such as THF or RNG, it was never expected of me, nor have I ever given it much thought.

As to one of the earlier replies telling the author to pull his thumb out of his ****, and the similiar replies right along with it, I say one thing. Pull your head out of your **** first, THEN proceed to be a wanna-be first class FFXI player.

No attitude is needed. He is probably one of the best end-game BRD's there can be, and probably one of the most well mannered ones. It 'seems' like he does not like pulling, so oh well, don't invite him.

There is nothing wrong with a BRD not pulling if that BRD is not in a party! I am also pretty sure he realized by now that he'll have to suck it up of he wants to merit. As for him being lazy, I am sure he is by not wanting to pull, but I'll beat him on that and then some.

I write in seacom that I will *NOT* pull, and upon an invite, I make sure that is understood before I even bother to accept. I have pulled before in merits, but I never liked it, don't like it now, and never will like it.

While, obviously, many people don't mind pulling, and strive to be best at it, some people simply don't.

I for one would have liked to see the eradication of burns and the return of good old fashioned "Old-school FFXI parties." Then perhaps some people wouldn't become so cranky.


especially in the context of this thread, this is by far one of the worst posts i've ever read. you didn't address a single argument, you made random false assertions, and you contributed nothing at all to the discussion that hasn't already been said (and refuted/explained away). you should be ashamed of yourself.
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#66 Jan 18 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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As COR, I usually tell the BRD I don't mind pulling because I know how annoying it can be to have to pull every single meripo. Plus, I don't mind doing it every once in awhile. COR pulling isn't bad since our damage contribution isn't huge anyway, and rolls don't have to be recast as often as songs do. Ideally the BRD would probably pull and the COR would contribute DD, but endless chains are certainly doable with COR pulling and BRD healing/sleeping/buffing. Plus, in an all SAM /SAM party a backup healer is actually useful on occasion.

Long story short, if you really don't want to pull on BRD you can probably make the COR do it. We are basically reliant on you to get merits (well, if we want to get good merits anyway).
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#67FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 2:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is a bard not pulling wrong?
#68 Jan 18 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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FinalPlay wrote:
Why is a bard not pulling wrong?

It is not 'wrong.' There! ^.^

Ease up, you'll give yourself an anurism. Spell-check that please. Very true, I did not directly answer the topic, and I'll give you that. Excellent 'observation.'

Enough generalizations can be made as to what is implied. :D

And as far as being cranky, your probably right. I saw many people disconnect or go afk as a result of a quadruple bypass or stroke while they were yelling and crying at other sky parties for 'invading the turf.' Hehe.


that i look down on you for writing what you did does not entail that i'm emotionally worked up (or even involved). you made a stupid post, now you made another stupid post. we've already pointed out why it *is* wrong to refuse to pull if you want to XP/merit on BRD.

"wrong is too strong a word for it!!"

fine, it makes you a bad player then (all morality aside).
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#69 Jan 19 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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FinalPlay wrote:
As to one of the earlier replies telling the author to pull his thumb out of his ****, and the similiar replies right along with it, I say one thing. Pull your head out of your **** first, THEN proceed to be a wanna-be first class FFXI player.


Yeah, that was me. That was my way of rewriting "Other people pay to play this game too, if you don't want to play like everyone else does - fine - but don't be surprised if no one wants to play with you."

This isn't something people make up, its truth. And apparently its coming from my ****. There's a reason my head's up there. Unfortnately, with that - I think you broke whatever analogy I was trying to make.
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#70 Jan 19 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
As COR, I usually tell the BRD I don't mind pulling because I know how annoying it can be to have to pull every single meripo. Plus, I don't mind doing it every once in awhile. COR pulling isn't bad since our damage contribution isn't huge anyway, and rolls don't have to be recast as often as songs do. Ideally the BRD would probably pull and the COR would contribute DD, but endless chains are certainly doable with COR pulling and BRD healing/sleeping/buffing. Plus, in an all SAM /SAM party a backup healer is actually useful on occasion.

Long story short, if you really don't want to pull on BRD you can probably make the COR do it. We are basically reliant on you to get merits (well, if we want to get good merits anyway).


I've no idea if you parse much but I parse almost all of my merit parties and as a result I wouldn't agree a cor's damage contribution can be discarded to give the bard a break from pulling. Cor will be less than all the other DD's but the lowest DD in the party won't be too far ahead of the Cor if he's good. I am referring mainly to pick up groups so if you're one of the people who only merits with your LS then our mileage may be different I guess.


cykokakashi wrote:
i just hit 75 brd last month. on brd i sub whm and as such i back up cure pretty effectively as a 75 brd. i also constantly keep songs up and do complex song mixes. i use finale like water w/o having to be told. why is me not pulling on brd an issue. i do all but 1 thing as a brd. last i checkd the people i party with dont send me money orders to pay for ff11. i make it clear i dont pull and people still give me grief over it


Bard pulls in merit parties because it's what they get invited for and it's what they're best at. All you can really do is put in your search comment that you will only merit if there is another bard in the party, then hope he doesn't leave before you do and is happy to do all the running about while you leech.

You seem to want it both ways, bards have a fast invite rate to parties because not enough people want to level the job (usually because of pulling) so they level a DD and accept slow invite rates, you seem to be happy to take the fast invite without doing the very thing you get that fast invite for. Bards generally have an easy time in this game due to the huge popularity of the job, you won't get chewed out for having sub par gear like a DD or tank would. You won't get chewed out for letting buffs drop like a healer would and you won't get chewed out for having a bad attitude most of the time, I've known quite a few who've had a terrible attitude "because they can". The most important thing you're expected to do is pull and if you're not prepared to do that then people will get annoyed and quite rightly so.
#71FinalPlay, Posted: Jan 19 2010 at 8:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Those posts of mine were certainly not as 'stupid' as the posts that did nothing but say how 'stupid' they were, lol. Don't make it any better, now does it.
#72 Jan 19 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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FinalPlay wrote:
Ok, I admit. In a PROFESSIONAL sense, maybe it is. But we are 'playing.' Trust me, no matter how you justify it, you are just playing too. And being as hardcore as possible will not make you into something that you probably only wish to be.


Demeaning people because they give a **** is pathetic. I play football too, which is also a game but if I'm asked to be goal keeper and decide I'd rather run up the field to try and score a goal instead because, well, there are defenders who can look after goal and it's "my time" and "it's only a game" then I'd probably get kicked from the team and told to never come back again. This is a social game, as a result everyone playing it has some form of social responsibility. You are more than entitled to play this game how you like, you can sit and craft on a level 1 job all day if you want, nobody will care. You can solo to 75 in your own time and nobody will care. The minute you join a party with other people though the social responsibility kicks in and you'll be assigned a role which best suits the group. For Bard that is pulling, if you don't like it then don't join the group activities.
#73 Jan 19 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I see the point your trying to make here, except that your missing the mark entirely.

Yes, it is certainly not a 'mandatory requirement' in the sense that your not bound by any sense of obligation. When it come to black and white issues, this is the ultimate answer, so yes...you are absolutely correct.

However, the same logic applies to every job. PLD and NIN are tanks. WHM are healers. RDM are debuffers. SMN and BST have pets. BLM are nukers. WAR, SAM, DRG, RNG, etc etc etc are DD's. Even THF aren't pullers - they are TH4 (ask any end-game THF what matters most about their job and most will tell you - all they need are gloves and knife) and hate control.

There is not a single job who's 'mandatory requirement' and sole bound purpose is to pull. There is no job who pulls faster or farther or receives bonuses for pulling or can debuff a mob by initiating a pull. Black and White answer.

The very foundation of the point your trying to make falls apart then. It means absolutely nothing in the real world sense of things.
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#74 Jan 19 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Artemizthepld wrote:

I've no idea if you parse much but I parse almost all of my merit parties and as a result I wouldn't agree a cor's damage contribution can be discarded to give the bard a break from pulling. Cor will be less than all the other DD's but the lowest DD in the party won't be too far ahead of the Cor if he's good. I am referring mainly to pick up groups so if you're one of the people who only merits with your LS then our mileage may be different I guess.


Apparently you missed the part where I said ideally the COR would be DDing. However, COR pulling is an option, and it's not a terrible one. Particularly in cases where some backup healing by the BRD is useful (parties without /NIN jobs and in particular at MJSP), and when your DD's are strong.

Artemizthepld wrote:

Bard pulls in merit parties because it's what they get invited for


Bard gets invited to both XP and merit because their buffs give a huge bonus to DoT to all DD's in the party (far more than adding another DD would give). Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited. The fact is that most party leaders out there will invite a princess BRD that refuses to pull since the only other option is basically to disband the party.
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#75 Jan 20 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
Apparently you missed the part where I said ideally the COR would be DDing. However, COR pulling is an option, and it's not a terrible one. Particularly in cases where some backup healing by the BRD is useful (parties without /NIN jobs and in particular at MJSP), and when your DD's are strong.


No I assure you I did read your post, your point was that the DD aspect of cor isn't really important. I really don't agree and I'm not sure why you seem to have taken offense to it either.

SynthiaOfLeviathan wrote:
Bard gets invited to both XP and merit because their buffs give a huge bonus to DoT to all DD's in the party (far more than adding another DD would give). Pulling makes sense for a BRD to do, but it is definitely not why they get invited. The fact is that most party leaders out there will invite a princess BRD that refuses to pull since the only other option is basically to disband the party.


Bards are invited to parties (at least by me) to buff AND pull. Part of the appeal of inviting a bard is their mastery of pulling so yes, they are invited to pull.
#76 Jan 20 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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FinalPlay wrote:
Those posts of mine were certainly not as 'stupid' as the posts that did nothing but say how 'stupid' they were, lol. Don't make it any better, now does it.

Last of your replies, perhaps including this one right here, were a complete waste of space. Was not my problem you felt it was necessary to add all that to what you thought, or anyone thinks, is 'stupid'. So you are not off the hook either with pointless posts. :P. And I don't think my post was pointless at all.

And it is *not* wrong to have a bard not pull. The players simply MAKE it wrong.

Ok, I admit. In a PROFESSIONAL sense, maybe it is. But we are 'playing.' Trust me, no matter how you justify it, you are just playing too. And being as hardcore as possible will not make you into something that you probably only wish to be.

**When a job opening becomes available that pays you by the chain in FFXI, let me know.**

And don't bother saying 'exp,' that difference in exp between a pulling BRD and a non-pulling BRD is minimal at best.


i put an ad out for, say, a tennis partner. say i love tennis. i get a reply. i eagerly call up my new friend one weekend and say "let's play tennis!" so we get our rackets and our ridiculous white shorts or spandex or whatever, and we head to the local tennis court. i serve to my opponent, and he throws the racket at the ball instead of swinging it!

"hey! that's not how you play tennis!" i yell.
"it's how i play. this isn't a job."

then i say "go **** yourself," and leave. as i now say to you: go **** yourself.
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